Question for the socal climbers [Archive]

Jaye

02-28-08, 02:15 PM

herbm

02-28-08, 02:16 PM

Probably start on just GMR and see how that goes...

bitingduck

02-28-08, 02:21 PM

I think they're mostly pretty comparable to each other, except for Baldy via Baldy Rd. and from Baldy Village to the ski lifts, both of which are very steep.

Big T to clear creek might be a nice start-- it's low traffic and a reasonable climb. La Tuna canyon might also be a nice place to start-- it's relatively short and not steep. Otherwise just go ride and see how you feel.

urbanknight

02-28-08, 02:24 PM

Extort

02-28-08, 02:27 PM

I have read studies that show that larger people have greater muscle mass than skinny people, so you should be able to power yourself up a hill no matter what your weight...

but to start, find a local hill (~1 mile @ 4-6%) and do repeats up that so that you have a break in between each cycle. After you can do 4-5 of those comfortably then go after some of the bigger hills like GMR.

merider1

02-28-08, 02:50 PM

If you're new, I recommend starting with some shorter climbs. I tried to get back into cycling too quickly after taking almost a decade off, and climbing all over the Santa Monica Mountains when I hadn't built myself up on the smaller hills first gave me a knee problem that had me off the bike completely for months.

+1 Mike, you should come out and climb the canyons in Griffith Park. Those roads are excellent for those just cutting their teeth on climbs. If too easy, you can always do a few repeats/loops. But basically, GMR is like Mt. Hollywood X 3. :)

cjbruin

02-28-08, 02:52 PM

I have read studies that show that larger people have greater muscle mass than skinny people, so you should be able to power yourself up a hill no matter what your weight...

Rubbish...whoever wrote those studies was probably some little skinny ba$tard. No amount of muscle mass can overcome the extra poundage...otherwise guys like Thor Hushovd & Fabian Cancellara would be climbing studs.

Case in point, many of you have seen my legs but despite the muscle mass, I'm the worst climber in any given group ride.

Of course, I can still make it up GMR :) Jaye...I'll bet you can too!

merider1

02-28-08, 02:53 PM

Rubbish...

+1 And Phil, might I remind you of your climbing capabilities. :rolleyes::p

cjbruin

02-28-08, 02:55 PM

+1 And Phil, might I remind you of your climbing capabilities. :rolleyes::p

Is that a euphemism?

merider1

02-28-08, 02:57 PM

Is that a euphemism?

No. Now, if I'd mentioned my climbing abilities, yes. ;):p

cjbruin

02-28-08, 02:59 PM

No. Now, if I'd mentioned my climbing abilities, yes. ;):p

Legendary from what I hear.

urbanknight

02-28-08, 03:07 PM

Rubbish...whoever wrote those studies was probably some little skinny ba$tard. No amount of muscle mass can overcome the extra poundage...otherwise guys like Thor Hushovd & Fabian Cancellara would be climbing studs.

Actually, it's true, but the extra muscle mass is only enough to compensate for the extra poundage. Otherwise, 350 lb guys wouldn't be able to walk. Of course, skinny people with extra muscle will have the advantage, but I have a theory that people who start out heavy and then lose weight while building muscle end up on top because they retain the higher muscle mass yet end up light to make an awesome power to weight ratio.

mkadam68

02-28-08, 03:08 PM

Legendary from what I hear.

No...no...you're confusing abilities here....

:D:p:D

merider1

02-28-08, 03:11 PM

Legendary from what I hear.

Lies. All lies. Trust me, I descend harder and with better skill than I ever do climb.

DaveSANYYZ

02-28-08, 03:18 PM

Lies. All lies. Trust me, I descend harder and with better skill than I ever do climb.Yep. All it takes is M.E.'s 1 post to bring a thread into the gutter. :D

DaveSANYYZ

02-28-08, 03:21 PM

I'm not sure of your climbing abilities... but perhaps clear the shorter/city ones first like Newport Coast/Torrey Pines with a repeat or two to gauge how you're doing. This way even if you're stuck, it won't be as bad and you'll still be closer to home.

tbrown524

02-28-08, 03:21 PM

but to start, find a local hill (~1 mile @ 4-6%) and do repeats up that so that you have a break in between each cycle. After you can do 4-5 of those comfortably then go after some of the bigger hills like GMR.

+100 - I was 265 lbs when I started riding and I was doing hill repeats at least twice a week outside of group rides. It might not help you beat the skinnies up the hill but it'll help you at least stay with the pack.

A place where I do my repeats is Turnbull Canyon Rd(Whittier).. Pretty quiet there on Sunday mornings.

bitingduck

02-28-08, 03:26 PM

Actually, it's true, but the extra muscle mass is only enough to compensate for the extra poundage. Otherwise, 350 lb guys wouldn't be able to walk. Of course, skinny people with extra muscle will have the advantage, but I have a theory that people who start out heavy and then lose weight while building muscle end up on top because they retain the higher muscle mass yet end up light to make an awesome power to weight ratio.

It depends.

Climbing (and cycling in general) is more limited by ability to convert sugar and oxygen to mechanical energy and dissipate the excess heat generated in doing that (the process isn't all that efficient). Climbing ability is determined mostly by power/weight, not strength/weight (unless you can't climb at all...). If you take two guys who are 25 kg apart in weight, but both produce 5 watts per kilo, they'll both climb at the same rate. The bigger guy will be faster on the flats though. If the heavier guy has a higher body fat percentage, then it's less likely that he'll be 5 W/kg, so he'll probably climb slower.

Miguel Indurain was a monster relative to your typical elite climber at about 170 lbs, but he could put out more than enough power to make up for it.

merider1

02-28-08, 03:30 PM

Yep. All it takes is M.E.'s 1 post to bring a thread into the gutter. :D

:mad: No sir. I did not start it. Cjbruin did.

cjbruin

02-28-08, 03:45 PM

Miguel Indurain was a monster relative to your typical elite climber at about 170 lbs, but he could put out more than enough power to make up for it.

No joke. He used to put out 550W with a VO2 Max of 88. By comparison, most elite athletes are usually around the 450W, 65 VO2 Max and an avg untrained 30 year old male falls around 200W with a 40 VO2 Max.

By the way, I did not take this off the top of my head...I'm not THAT big of a geek. I went through some athletic torture testing and the doc compared my results to all three of those others.

I came in at 350W and a 42.5 VO2 Max. At that point I was claiming the title of "Fittest Fat Guy in Orange County" :)

cjbruin

02-28-08, 03:48 PM

:mad: No sir. I did not start it. Cjbruin did.

You hush.

merider1

02-28-08, 03:50 PM

You hush.

Look it, you did start it, when all I was doing was complimenting Phil on how fast he climbs. The man can do repeats before I ever peak. Of course, that's been my experience with just about every man I've ever ridden with...

bitingduck

02-28-08, 04:10 PM

No joke. He used to put out 550W with a VO2 Max of 88. By comparison, most elite athletes are usually around the 450W, 65 VO2 Max and an avg untrained 30 year old male falls around 200W with a 40 VO2 Max.

By the way, I did not take this off the top of my head...I'm not THAT big of a geek. I went through some athletic torture testing and the doc compared my results to all three of those others.

I came in at 350W and a 42.5 VO2 Max. At that point I was claiming the title of "Fittest Fat Guy in Orange County" :)

Unfortunately I'm enough of a geek that I could have pulled most of those numbers out of my head, including Indurain's numbers.

Turtle1

02-28-08, 04:10 PM

Did anyone do that bike race simulator thing at ToC? The guy next to me hit like 900 watts at some point....is that even possible?

Rick@OCRR

02-28-08, 04:10 PM

A place where I do my repeats is Turnbull Canyon Rd(Whittier).. Pretty quiet there on Sunday mornings.

I would 2nd that (Turnbull), but only if it's somewhat near to where you live. Maybe if you tell us where you live (approx.) riders from that are could suggest some specific climbs.

Rick / OCRR

bitingduck

02-28-08, 04:11 PM

Did anyone do that bike race simulator thing at ToC? The guy next to me hit like 900 watts at some point....is that even possible?

Sure. Peaking that high isn't hard.

the numbers above are for sustained output.

Jamie Staff (former world champ in the Kilo and Keirin) has reported numbers ~2500 Watts on a standing start.

mkadam68

02-28-08, 04:13 PM

Hey everyone I am not a climber but want to begin climbing, at 6' and 260 I am not exactly built to just dive headlong into Baldy. Of the well known climbs ie Baldy, AC, etc can you climbers out there rank them for me based on which one I should start with and get down before moving to #2 and so on.

I really appreciate the help and advice! I will see some of you on Saturday for the B2B ride!

~Mike

Well..I'm in your league (6'3", 255#) and not a climber, although I do enjoy it. Ratings of climbs are so hard to go by, as the details of the day can change things. Many of the climbs below were done at the end of a hard ride, so the climb was harder than it should have been.

Here's a ranking only of the climbs I've done, hardest to easiest:

May Canyon to Base 9
Glendora Ridge Route
Topanga Rd from PCH
Little T (both peaks)
Lake Hughes Rd (Castaic)
Mulholland (up from PCH)
Little GMR
Glendora Mountain Rd
Angeles Crest Highway to Clear Creek
Old Topanga
Rock Store

redal

02-28-08, 04:15 PM

To the original poster- I would suggest starting with some shorter climbs. I don't know where you live but Turnbull was mentioned which is a good one. It is about two miles long and not too steep. You can climb both sides as well. There are also a few other climbs to the north of Turnbull Canyon Rd. You can actually do quite a bit of climbing with short descents in between.
If you really want to do a big climb, I would suggest starting with GMR or Azusa Canyon. Hwy 39 is not as steep as GMR but if you're not prepared to go up the backside of GMR, you will have to ride back out of the canyon which I don't care for. GMR is doable for you. I took my friend's father up there a few years ago. He had some riding experience but hadn't been training much at the time. He was probably a little bigger than you and although he suffered and had to stop a few times, he made it. We rode from Rancho Cucamonga. My wife made it last year as well. She rides a little but is primarily a runner. She just decided she wanted to do it. Both of them rode it on really hot days (one on July 4 and one on Labor Day) and both had 39x23s as their smallest gears.

cjbruin

02-28-08, 04:15 PM

Agreed, the test I did starts you out at 100W and they increase it by 50W every two minutes. I actually got to 400W for about 15 seconds but it wasn't enough. I guess R600DuraAce really is better than me :)

Turtle1

02-28-08, 04:20 PM

Sure. Peaking that high isn't hard.

the numbers above are for sustained output.

Jamie Staff (former world champ in the Kilo and Keirin) has reported numbers ~2500 Watts on a standing start.

Wowza!

I vote the OP goes for GMR/GRR as well. It's never really too steep, light traffic, and you can turn around anytime.

Mr. Beanz

02-28-08, 04:23 PM

The toughest 5 climbs I've done. I'll take a triple next time!:o

1) Forest Falls!
2) Forest Falls!
3) Forest Falls!
4) Forest Falls!
AND #5) Forest Falls!:p

GMR should be a good one for the OP. Sometimes rather than getting stuck out on GRR alone, I'll do GMR twice for the workout. From any point along this road, you can turn back at any point and easily roll back!:D

VanceMac

02-28-08, 04:33 PM

Jaye, in what area do you live?

redal

02-28-08, 04:35 PM

GMR should be a good one for the OP. Sometimes rather than getting stuck out on GRR alone, I'll do GMR twice for the workout. From any point along this road, you can turn back at any point and easily roll back!:D

I forgot to mention the part about turning around as a positive for GMR. Once you're about 20 minutes past the maintenance station you're committed though.

ericm979

02-28-08, 05:58 PM

Rubbish...whoever wrote those studies was probably some little skinny ba$tard. No amount of muscle mass can overcome the extra poundage...otherwise guys like Thor Hushovd & Fabian Cancellara would be climbing studs.

Either of those guys would beat my skinny freak ass up any climb. They're only "non-climbers" compared to the best climbers in the world. Compared to us mortals they are fantastic climbers.

1955

02-28-08, 06:07 PM

Why would you come here to find out about social climbers?

Jaye

02-28-08, 08:29 PM

spingineer

02-28-08, 08:30 PM

When I was living in SoCal, I thought I was a hill climber. Then, I moved to NorCal, and found out I'm not. Then, when I started riding with SoCal BF, I really found out I'm a true flatlander.

From what I recall, here are the "hill climbs" I did:

GMR
La Tuna Canyon
Crown/Starlight Crest
Chantry Flats (flats ... what an oxymoron)
St. Katherine's
Linda Vista-Lida (from the Glendale side of Chevy Chase)
Turnbull Canyon
Puddingstone (from Pasadena)

Wimpy, eh?

Mr. Beanz

02-28-08, 09:19 PM

I have just avoided climbs due to my size and want to break myself out of that. Thanks for the help!

I don't think that has anything to do with your size. I know plenty of small riders that can't climb!:D If there's a will, there's a way!:o

jpconrad

02-28-08, 09:41 PM

I don't think that has anything to do with your size. I know plenty of small riders that can't climb!:D If there's a will, there's a way!:o

+1, you just need to learn how to enjoy it. For me, climbing was more of a challenge because you can't coast/recover like you can on the flats.

mkadam68

02-28-08, 09:54 PM

I suppose I should have mentioned where I live huh? I am in the Palmdale/Lancaster area. I am not a brand new rider I have just avoided climbs due to my size and want to break myself out of that. Thanks for the help!

There's a climb up Bouquet Canyon from where it meets Elizabeth Lake Rd. Not too steep and somewhat short (1/2-mile+ maybe). There's also the area around Devil's Punchbowl Park, although I've never ridden near there. And Angeles Crest Highway. And Angeles Forest Highway.

But, I'm with the other's advice here. Start short and easy. I did too much too soon awhile back and ended up on crutches for a couple weeks. Go slow and acclimatize to the new stress & requirements.

urbanknight

02-28-08, 10:06 PM

I don't think that has anything to do with your size. I know plenty of small riders that can't climb!:D If there's a will, there's a way!:o
I didn't know you've gone riding with me yet :D

Mr. Beanz

02-28-08, 10:10 PM

I didn't know you've gone riding with me yet :D

Yeah Yeah! That's what Dutchboy2 said right before he smoked me like a turkey up the mtn! I'll expect the same from you!:D

gr@sshopper

02-28-08, 10:12 PM

urbanknight

02-28-08, 10:39 PM

Yeah Yeah! That's what Dutchboy2 said right before he smoked me like a turkey up the mtn! I'll expect the same from you!:D
I'm sure the "hills" this Saturday will give me an opportunity to live up to that? :D

Extort

02-28-08, 10:58 PM

I have read studies that show that larger people have greater muscle mass than skinny people, so you should be able to power yourself up a hill no matter what your weight...

Of course, I can still make it up GMR :) Jaye...I'll bet you can too!

Thanks for proving my point!

Entropy906

02-28-08, 11:12 PM

When I was working up in Palmdale, I would do repeats up Goodhill maybe? Back and forth between Elizabeth lake road and N maybe? There was actually a lot more great riding out there than I had expected.

It's Godde. And yes there is a lot of great climbing round here. Of course there is always the biggest hill of them all. The freakin' wind.

scvroadie

02-29-08, 12:20 AM

It's Godde. And yes there is a lot of great climbing round here. Of course there is always the biggest hill of them all. The freakin' wind.

Especially out there in the Palmdale/Lancaster area. When I use to go out there on business, the wind was always blowing.

Entropy906

02-29-08, 07:31 AM

Especially out there in the Palmdale/Lancaster area. When I use to go out there on business, the wind was always blowing.

The wind is the best reason to head to the hills. It's not all that much fun working really hard to get 12 mph in the middle of the desert.