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Question of the Weekend (March 1-2)
How bicycle-friendly is your neighborhood/community?
(Presuming you ride without breaking the law, of course.....)
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South Bay/Palos Verdes = Good to Excellent.
I've never had major issues, but tourists in the summer can be a pain. My only complaint as a cyclist is there's so many stop signs/lights. But going through some densely packed areas, it would be unsafe for resident/pedestrians otherwise. I find most motorists pleasantly accommodating to cyclists, as long as we're following the law.
Things are ok...but Burbank has made some dumb decisions at times....but Griffith Park is right here!!
Sherman Oaks completely blows. No matter what, I have to cross Ventura Blvd at some point to do just about any ride and that road is so narrow, tons of cars, huge cracks in the pavement, truck warps (don't know what else to call those big pavement mounds that heavy trucks cause in the pavement) and potholes. The drivers are rude and will buzz you (I've been buzzed on more than one occassion). I hate that part of any ride that I do out of SO. In the morning, it's doable, but upon the return, I dread that last two miles home.
Santa Clarita is good for the most part. Unfortunately, it's mostly because they keep cyclists and motorists apart. There is more than 40+ miles of dedicated MUPs that get mostly bike traffic, the remaining roads have very large shoulders --OR-- are out in the countryside so there's (usually) little traffic. We do have idiots, too, that like to buzz you, or shout out rude comments like any other area (usually testosterone pumped teenagers or pick-up/SUV driving hicks).
I can't really complain. Santa Clara has a lot of bike lanes built on the heaviest streets (Lawrence Expressway is almost like a freeway, but they clearly have a lane for bikes to travel on). My only complaint is it's 3 or 4 miles of flatland before I reach any hills. Once I get to some hills, it's heavenly.
The Conejo Valley is a great place to ride. However, with the huge increase in the number of large / huge SUVs in the area, along with newly licensed, cell phone toting teenagers (and their affluent parents), things can get 'hairy' at times.
With a lot of concentration, careful, defensive, law-abiding riding it truly is a great place to live and ride in
I don't understand #3, 'Driver Education Cold Help'. What is that, freeze the crotch when they goof up?:D
Road conditions are good but drivers are the problem. 40 mph roads, 70 mph drivers.
I don't understand #3, 'Driver Education Cold Help'.
There have been a few times, when I've been in a passenger a car, and the driver did not know how to handle a cyclist in the road. Not all drivers who buzz cyclists, or cut them off are deliberately trying to be malicious
It's seems pretty simple to you and me, but it wasn't to them and it created a dangerous situation.
I think Driver Education would do wonders to increase cycling safety.
Back on topic:
In Mar Vista, we have a lot of streets with parking on both sides. There's barely enough room for two cars to squeeze by in the middle and people can't see you when entering the street from a driveway.
We do however, have the Venice Blvd bike lane, and the Culver Blvd bike path which leads to the Ballona Creek Bike path. So it's not ideal, but it's doable.
Aside of the lady who admittedly thwapped me with her Excursion's passenger mirror (that was big enough to act as a sail) on purpose to "teach me a lesson", which sent me sprawling to the ground (thankfully, minor injuries only; had to get a new helmet, though), most of northern Orange County (La Habra, Brea, Yorba Linda) and some of southern LA County (La Mirada, Whittier) seems to host a group of fairly amicable drivers.
Road conditions could be better, though.
"Bicycle friendly" means many different things to many types of cyclists, so it makes it hard to answer a poll. Most of my riding ends up being in or near Irvine, which most consider "bicycle friendly" because of all the bike lanes and paths. I'm not as bullish as others on that point, because there's other areas where they are bicyclist unfriendly, such as left turn signals that are not optimally designed to detect bicyclists.
"Bicycle friendly" means many different things to many types of cyclists, so it makes it hard to answer a poll. Most of my riding ends up being in or near Irvine, which most consider "bicycle friendly" because of all the bike lanes and paths. I'm not as bullish as others on that point, because there's other areas where they are bicyclist unfriendly, such as left turn signals that are not optimally designed to detect bicyclists.
Well said. Around Irvine area roads are ok, and most have wide shoulder. So I guess thats bicycle friendly. There are bunch of paths, but since I don't use them and think they are more dangerous then roads that doesn't factor in to my friendliness factor. Drivers here are for the most part ignorant, and aside from some basic rules of the road like "stop on red" have no clue about California law. Specially the parts that are applied to cyclists. As the result I had several conversations where people were thinking I was doing something illegal by merging in to a left turn lane, instead of using crosswalk and walking my bike.
Aside of the lady who admittedly thwapped me with her Excursion's passenger mirror (that was big enough to act as a sail) on purpose to "teach me a lesson", which sent me sprawling to the ground (thankfully, minor injuries only; had to get a new helmet, though), most of northern Orange County (La Habra, Brea, Yorba Linda) and some of southern LA County (La Mirada, Whittier) seems to host a group of fairly amicable drivers.
Road conditions could be better, though.
I'm no attorney, but...
The area on the border of West Covina to around Diamond Bar is great for cycling. We have awesome bike lanes (can ride two abreast in some places, three if you squish), signals that pick up cyclists, bike crossing buttons for the stoplights that don't pick up cyclists, and not that may stop signs even if it's mostly a residential area. Drivers are ok too--I've never gotten buzzed or honked at in an unfriendly manner, but that's probably because I'm a girl.
Unfortunately, I don't see too many people taking advantage of the awesome bike facilities we have. It gets lonely sometimes when I'm the only one on the bike lanes. :(
I'm no attorney, but...
Yeah, it was f*cked up. She said it only to my (at the time) wife and I, and denied it when the cops came. It didn't get in the report, and several lawyers indicated I'd have to prove *intent*, which is uber hard in a case like this. You know, she'd get up on the stand and express how she didn't know and it was an accident and she's so sorry it happened and I'd lose and be out a bunch of lawyer's fees.
*shrug*
i thought hollywood sucked until i rode with a friend in sherman oaks. HORRIBLE to echo the ventura blvd complaint above. at least on parts of sunset there's a bike lane and you can almost always get on a sidewalk in times of desperation which i frequently do until i can get to the Hollywood Hills, which, aside from blind corners, rough roads, and middle of the road drivers (there isn't often a choice), is actually not too bad. you just have to really love riding UP HILL. Mulholland drive is pretty good, too. i've found drivers to be pretty good (knock on wood).
IF there were just a little more infrastructure and incentive i think this place would be crawling with bikes. people LOVE riding their bikes. its the traffic. that scares them (and me)
As mentioned, Conejo Valley is pretty good. Agoura Hills has decent bike lanes where I live. Lots of cyclists here and unfortunately, many run the lights so that causes some occasional letters to the editors of our local papers.
Santa Monica's just minutes from my door, decent array of LBS's and bright blue skies. Word is that we're going to have lots more pro teams training here next winter.
Sheldon
Cool question. Given what's going on in Orange County, I'm amazed at the reponses. Maybe it's worse here?
Cool question. Given what's going on in Orange County, I'm amazed at the reponses. Maybe it's worse here?
I certainly think it could be better in OC, but a lot of times when we focus on the bad things it can make things seem worse than they really are.
But I think a lot of it is that different cyclists may get different impressions of the same cycling environment due to differing riding styles and experiences. Take the example of a cyclist on a bike laned street approaching the intersection, with a motorist coming up from behind and wanting to make a right turn. Cyclist #1 holds his line in the bike lane through the intersection, and the motorist passes the cyclist on the left and turns across the bike lane, not realizing that he almost "hooked" the cyclist (because he didn't realize that the cyclist was traveling fast enough to intersect his path when making the turn). Cyclist #2 looks back and sees that a motorist wants to make a right turn, the cyclist signals and merges out of the bike lane before the intersection, the motorist merges right, passes to the right of the cyclist and completes the right turn safely.
Cyclist #1 and cyclist #2 are both experiencing the same drivers - but cyclist #1 is going to have a different opinion of these drivers than cyclist #2.
la crescenta is great. the roads are smooth. decent climbs/ grades and the drivers are so afraid they pass with huge gaps.
As mentioned, Conejo Valley is pretty good. Agoura Hills has decent bike lanes where I live. Lots of cyclists here and unfortunately, many run the lights so that causes some occasional letters to the editors of our local papers.
Santa Monica's just minutes from my door, decent array of LBS's and bright blue skies. Word is that we're going to have lots more pro teams training here next winter.
Great! more opportunities to find out how slow I am and how bad I suck!
I stated 'Good - but Drivers Ed could help' only because I did not see an option for both Drivers and Cyclist Ed...
If all bicyclists acted according the the law (stop signs, signaling, etc.) then the streets would be much safer. However, there would still be some ignorant / malicious drivers out there because of the tons rule.
I voted excellent as I live in the fixed gear capital of the world, Echo Park.
The folks in my area aren't purposely a problem with cyclists, but Glendale has some of the worst drivers I've ever seen.
San Diego UTC/La Jolla area - very good. :)
I only spend a few % of my time on the road, what with all the bike trails around it's just not necessary for my to put myself in harms way, even at the cost of being scorned and made fun of and not called a REAL cyclist. Plus, the guys I ride with will not ride on the road...so to ride with them I ride where they want to ride. Heck, I'm scared of the other drivers when I'm in my truck!
My neighborhood is great if you don't need base miles and you like to climb, all the time.
As for drivers, I've never had any problems up here, but I don't come up Topanga from PCH to town except during the mornings. The people who climb that section during busy hours are nutty.
I don't ride in my neighborhood, so much as I ride through it to get to Chantry Flats or whatever. I can't complain about motorists or pavement, people are generally courteous and the pavement condition is acceptable.
After riding for so many years in my neighborhood, I feel like I know every dangerous intersection, blind corner, and pot hole, so I voted "good" even though it can get pretty sketchy depending on which direction you go.
I voted my neighborhood very good...although it's probably closer to excellent, which might partly explain my great enthusiasm for riding my bike everywhere. First off, my very own street is considered a Class III Bike Route, as are many of the side streets that I use daily. When I stopped driving the car, I did this (http://www.cicle.org/bike_now/map_locations.jpg) and discovered that ALL these various places that I go to are in the two mile radius ( or just outside it)
1) Library
2) Bank
3) Bus Station
4) Taco stand
5) Bike shop
6) Post Office
7) Pho joint
8) Fancy restaurant
9) Boba Tea
10) Sushi
11) Bionico
12) Market
13) Drugstore
14) Doctor
15) Bus stop straight to the mall, movies
16) Feedstore
17) Dentist
18) 99 cent store
19) Park
There's more but you get the idea. I also live in the two mile radius of the SGRT and Rio Hondo when I want to ride with friends who don't like street riding or I want to escape the cars myself.
There is also a park and lake within riding distance.
It's the suburbs, Baby and by 9PM the steets are dead and everybody is tucked away at home. I can ride around freely at night if I want. My friends and I race around the deserted industrial areas and hit the taco trucks...it's really nice in the summer especially.
The main things I worry about are drinking drivers ( I see people buying beer around here at 8am) and speed demons.
I ride in 5 different cities, so it's a tough question to answer.
Carlsbad - the best. Generally good bike lanes; plenty of room for both bikes and cars.
Solana Beach - 2nd best. Good bike lanes along PCH. Streets are mostly in good shape, with the exception of the stretch just before Del Mar.
Oceanside - tied for 2nd best. PCH thru OSide is a no go, but Pacific Street is fine. There isn't a bike lane, but most drivers are content to give you the whole lane if you need it. The San Luis Rey trail in OSide is great.
Del Mar - fair. Streets are in poor condition much of the time. The merge of PCH and the road from Del Mar fair is one of the most dangerous in the county.
Encinitas - the worst, and that's my home town. Encinitas basically seems to care about the merchants and the drivers who frequent them. They just spent gobs of dollars redoing Leucadia's sidewalks, but there is still no bike lane, the streets are in bad shape, and drivers there are the worst. I almost got creamed the other day in downtown Encinitas by a driver making an illegal left turn right into me. Downtown Encinitas is one of the most dangerous places you can ride, unless you just say to hell with the drivers and take the entire right lane.
Silverlake is pretty good. I have a bike lane right in front of my house that goes directly to Griffith Park, and the drivers aren't too insane.
I certainly think it could be better in OC, but a lot of times when we focus on the bad things it can make things seem worse than they really are.
But I think a lot of it is that different cyclists may get different impressions of the same cycling environment due to differing riding styles and experiences. Take the example of a cyclist on a bike laned street approaching the intersection, with a motorist coming up from behind and wanting to make a right turn. Cyclist #1 holds his line in the bike lane through the intersection, and the motorist passes the cyclist on the left and turns across the bike lane, not realizing that he almost "hooked" the cyclist (because he didn't realize that the cyclist was traveling fast enough to intersect his path when making the turn). Cyclist #2 looks back and sees that a motorist wants to make a right turn, the cyclist signals and merges out of the bike lane before the intersection, the motorist merges right, passes to the right of the cyclist and completes the right turn safely.
Cyclist #1 and cyclist #2 are both experiencing the same drivers - but cyclist #1 is going to have a different opinion of these drivers than cyclist #2.
Lots of 'hooking' happens at driveways, or at side roads where there are no stops. It's impractical to expect a rider to be able to move over every time a driver wants to turn right.
The main problem is that the drivers equate cyclist on the road with themselves on a bike. "I would get there much slower on a bike, so I can make this turn in front of them." It's a natural psychological ego-centric thing I think. Natural, but completely wrong.
The Conejo Valley is a great place to ride. However, with the huge increase in the number of large / huge SUVs in the area, along with newly licensed, cell phone toting teenagers (and their affluent parents), things can get 'hairy' at times.
With a lot of concentration, careful, defensive, law-abiding riding it truly is a great place to live and ride in
My dad got hit by a truck in the Conejo Valley and broke his neck a few weeks ago, so it's not so great there. He'll be ok and is on his trainer at home in his neck brace.
(He has no memory of the accident, and no witness came forward, so he can't go after the driver. He made it to his 60's safely, so I'm sure it was the driver's fault, but that's not enough for the courts.)
A few years ago, on a Sunday morning, a high school kid driving a white Chevy 4x4 truck 'mowed' down and killed a cyclist on Lindero Canyon Road in Westlake Village. He had ridden up this way from the SF Valley with two or three of his friends, got a flat tire, and was fixing it in the ivy on the hill next to the sidewalk (way off the road). Apparently, the kid was concentrating on a couple of beautiful girls driving by the other way, veered off the road and onto the sidewalk and in the ivy where he hit the cyclist changing his tire, and dragged him for a few feet.
This was on my regular, every ride route, and happened on a day I had decided to not ride; my wife, who didn't know I wasn't riding that day, was driving by and saw the gathered crowd and paramedics, and a mangled bike, and a lot of blood...she was very relieved to come home and see me sitting in front of the TV--alive.
The point is regardless of how bike-friendly a community is, idiots in cars can still kill you. I also mentioned that running stop signs and red lights on the bike can also make a hostile environment worse.
Sorry to hear about your dad. Hope he heals well and quickly.
But I think a lot of it is that different cyclists may get different impressions of the same cycling environment due to differing riding styles and experiences. Take the example of a cyclist on a bike laned street approaching the intersection, with a motorist coming up from behind and wanting to make a right turn. Cyclist #1 holds his line in the bike lane through the intersection, and the motorist passes the cyclist on the left and turns across the bike lane, not realizing that he almost "hooked" the cyclist (because he didn't realize that the cyclist was traveling fast enough to intersect his path when making the turn). Cyclist #2 looks back and sees that a motorist wants to make a right turn, the cyclist signals and merges out of the bike lane before the intersection, the motorist merges right, passes to the right of the cyclist and completes the right turn safely.
My experience is that cyclist #2 would confuse motorists and create a more dangerous situation most of the time. That said, depending on the intersection, I fequently will move over so that there is room on the right to turn, especially when coming to a stop at a major intersection. The biggest problem with right-hooks is that frequently the motorists makes no indication of their intention, but just pulls up along side and suddenly makes a turn, especially at driveways.
We had a jogger in the bike lane killed in Orange County yesterday. Sobering and a whole other line of issues.
Great point here: "drivers equate cyclist on the road with themselves on a bike." They don't realize we are going 20-40 miles an hour.
We had a jogger in the bike lane killed in Orange County yesterday. Sobering and a whole other line of issues.
Great point here: "drivers equate cyclist on the road with themselves on a bike." They don't realize we are going 20-40 miles an hour.
Yeah..I saw that on the news.... very sad...:(
South Bay/Palos Verdes = Good to Excellent.
Not this past Saturday.
The donut ride ended up getting a two car police escort b/c of a lunatic driver.
Not this past Saturday. The donut ride ended up getting a two car police escort b/c of a lunatic driver.
Yeah... what was that? When I saw you guys I thought that was very odd. I came down off Crest/PV-East and see the Donut Train coming up PV-South... with two police cars in the middle. One of the cars stopped at the base of the switchbacks and I saw a Cynergy guy stopped to talk. From my POV, the cops seemed more protective than anything.
BTW, really wanted to join you at that point but I had to jet home to go to work. What happened, Phil?
It's not always the motorist's fault. I was tired yesterday and made two mistakes within a 4 block stretch. Luckily both drivers saw me and I didn't get hit.
Yeah... what was that? When I saw you guys I thought that was very odd. I came down off Crest/PV-East and see the Donut Train coming up PV-South... with two police cars in the middle. One of the cars stopped at the base of the switchbacks and I saw a Cynergy guy stopped to talk. From my POV, the cops seemed more protective than anything.
BTW, really wanted to join you at that point but I had to jet home to go to work. What happened, Phil?
First of all, the donut ride was huge on Sat. I would say 50-60 maybe 70. It was cool and ridiculous at the same time.
On the way through Lunada we were doing the usual 25+ mph and given the number of riders we took up the whole lane. I was up front and all of a sudden I hear a car laying on the horn. I looked over and saw a fast moving Prius passing on the left. No big deal right? Correct, until the driver of the car swerved in front of the pack and slowed down so he could get along side of some of us. Words were exchanged and he drove off. Ok, that was pretty scary but the driver moved on, no worries. A minute later I hear someone say that the prius is parked up ahead. "Great" I thought. The prius was parked by the surf spot in Lunada Bay and the driver was waiting for us with some of his surfer friends. As we went by he went absolutely nuts.
It was at this point that someone thought we should report the guy, given the fact that he had a) been driving recklessly, b) threatened us with his vehicle, c) verbally threatened us. I'm not one to cry wolf but in this case a call to authorities was totally warranted. Before we got to Portuguese bend there were two cruisers following us.
The cops never found the guy, but noted the make, model, and license plate #. I spoke with one of the officers before the switchbacks and he said that drivers are really starting to get aggressive with the cyclist in PV. They followed us all the way on our decent/ascent of PV Dr E. They even got on the PA and instructed us to move over to the right in areas they thought we would otherwise hold up traffic.
The cop was basically suggesting that when we're going the speed limit we can and should take the whole lane. When we're not, we (especially large groups) need to ride in a single or double pace line allowing space for vehicles to pass. We'll see, I doubt most of the donut riders give a $hit, which is why I'm starting to think I should avoid the larger group rides. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some cyclist specific ordinance passed in the future.
A fun ride none the less. The weather was probably the equivalent to what was happening in Belgium and given that Saturday was March 1 and the start of the spring classics I was relishing in the rain/drizzle.
I live in Glendale. Ride mostly in Glendale, Burbank, La Crescenta to Pasadena. I notice a big difference as I ride from South Glendale to North(for the better), and the people are the nicest in La Crescenta and La Canada towards cyclists. Each city has its goods and it's bads. Glendale barely has any bike lanes, and I avoid riding at busy hours.
First of all, the donut ride was huge on Sat. I would say 50-60 maybe 70. It was cool and ridiculous at the same time. /snip
A surfer? In a Prius???
Wow, thats weird. At least the police were there quickly. Wonder if the dude was on something.
How did the group/police react to the new flashing stoplight they installed? Did the group stop or did the cops let you guys blow through it?
I live on Glenoaks Blvd, a mile and a half from La Tuna Canyon. Thought I lived in the armpit of the Valley until I got a bicycle. Now I live in Malibu East.
Pasadena is mostly OK. Roads are in good shape (esp. when contrasted w/So. Pasadena, for ex.), and while some roads are crowded, there are usually parallel roads that aren't. I actually prefer riding in Pasadena to La Canada, which is SUV heaven, and full of entitled drivers. But even that's OK.
From reading the posts it seems mostly to depend on 1)car/population density; 2) road conditions; 3) people's stress levels. Sorry to say, ME, the Valley "scores" badly re all of these, much of the time.
A surfer? In a Prius???
Wow, thats weird. At least the police were there quickly. Wonder if the dude was on something.
How did the group/police react to the new flashing stoplight they installed? Did the group stop or did the cops let you guys blow through it?
Lol, what flashing stop light?
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