M.E., the Ruby is a women's bike.
TIP, I don't think 1/4 degree difference is dramatic. Are the bars too low?

Oh...sorry, didn't realize and I didn't read Ruby either...must have missed it.

Good, then you have a WSD anyway! I'm surprised, TIP, that the 51 doesn't fit you then. I would think the 48 would be too small. But then again, I'm not the one to really weigh in and I'll let the others continue...:o

can you go into more detail? I am unsure of how these changes might come into play.

Its really just seat tube and head tube angle. Not a big deal, but the 51 is closer to traditional angles.

Terror........come out to one of the social rides so some of us can perhaps comment on the fit. You may get varied opinions about your fit but at least someone can throw in a good suggestion that may make a diff. You never know. :)

dude thats 1.2 shorter than mine and you're an inch taller! :(

thanks by the way

also, what is your stem length?

me? Um...hold on...

Oh...sorry, didn't realize and I didn't read Ruby either...must have missed it.

Good, then you have a WSD anyway! I'm surprised, TIP, that the 51 doesn't fit you then. I would think the 48 would be too small. But then again, I'm not the one to really weigh in and I'll let the others continue...:o


Again, based on the geometry and her height, I would of said 51 also. But if ya have a pic of you on the bike on the top of the bars it is much easier to tell.

dude thats 1.2 shorter than mine and you're an inch taller! :(

thanks by the way

also, what is your stem length?

Okay, stem length is either 80 or 90mm. (or 8cm or 9cm)

not much. ever so slightly lower. i thought about how raising them a lil more might make it a closer reach, but i am not sure how much closer.

Because of the angles, as the bars are raised, the closer it becomes to the saddle.

Again, based on the geometry and her height, I would of said 51 also. But if ya have a pic of you on the bike on the top of the bars it is much easier to tell.

Oh, for cry eye...you have seen me on that bike! :rolleyes::p


Or do you mean her? Hey, TIP, do you have a pic of you on it?

ok, so you're taller, your tt is shorter than mine and you have the same size stem. which makes sense in comparison about me feeling a little stretched.

no photo yet, but here are some of the angles he put down on my fit sheet

knee angle 155
hip angle 110
shoulder angle 88.5

also
reach: 44.3cm
aero reach: 56.2

ok, so you're taller, your tt is shorter than mine and you have the same size stem. which makes sense in comparison about me feeling a little stretched.\\\no pics, i'll see if i can get one taken when someone gets home.

Yeah, I'm now leaning to the camp that you really should take it back and get what makes you comfortable. I don't know squat about bikes, TIP, but I do know that I LOVE my trek. I'll never not go WSD again, and it will have to fit me like Patsy does. I've been told the Ruby is a fantastic bike, far better than my little trek. I'm sure you can get this resolved and a bike that fits you like a glove. Then you can come join on rides with us and have fun, fun, fun. :D

my wrists get tired after 15 miles and i want to ride about 1-2cm shorter than where my hoods are now. i just feel mildly stretched or as if i'm reaching.

my wrists get tired after 15 miles and i want to ride about 1-2cm shorter than where my hoods are now.

Have you tried the drops? That was the ultimate litmus test for me. On the Trek 1000, I never rode in the drops as I was over extended and felt out of balance. From day one on Patsy, I was in the drops and loved it.

can someone chime in on the shorter stem deal? The fitter said he would not recommend anything shorter than an 80 as i might get speed wobbles/****ty handling.

anyone else feel the same way?

when you're stretched out 1cm can make a big difference.

Definitely. I changed my fit a while ago by finding bars with slightly deeper hooks. It took me about a cm further out when in the hooks, and it was very noticeable.

can someone chime in on the shorter stem deal? The fitter said he would not recommend anything shorter than an 80 as i might get speed wobbles/****ty handling.

anyone else feel the same way?Now, that's a bunch of bs. Handling differences are practically insignificant for the average rider... and even if there is, you'll adapt to it after one ride.

can someone chime in on the shorter stem deal? The fitter said he would not recommend anything shorter than an 80 as i might get speed wobbles/****ty handling.

anyone else feel the same way?

Shorter stem = more stable handling. That has nothing to do with speed wobble. The difference in fork rake and head tube angle make the bike more twitchy at high speeds. I have a friend who uses a 50mm stem and bombs down the mountains of Hawai'i with no problems.

Your problem could also be your bars. The reach on your bars could be too long. Someone makes a new "compact" design bar for women and small man hands.

The men on here may scoff at the notion that a WSD offers all that much to women, but I would be one to disagree. Unless I wanted to build a bike up (which I don't), this is the closest match I've found.

they should really sell them in both geometries without labeling them by gender-- there's more variation within each gender than there is between the averages of the two. And very few people are actually at the average. I know men and women with long legs and short torsos, and men and women with stubby legs and long torsos. More people might get better fits if they labeled them a little differently.

Can you move the hoods up the bars a little?

I agree with George, Jon, and BitingDuck, the handling differences are non existent. I have a 60mm stem that I use when my back is giving me problems to get me a little more upright. No handling issues.

can someone chime in on the shorter stem deal? The fitter said he would not recommend anything shorter than an 80 as i might get speed wobbles/****ty handling.

anyone else feel the same way?

pfft.

if you're controlling the bike through your hips it won't matter. the bars are just someplace to put your hands.

The fork geometry will have a lot more effect on the handling than the stem length, and it's fairly different on the two sizes.

Pics sitting on the bike on the tops and in the drops, and with the pedals horizontal and vertical would be helpful.

they should really sell them in both geometries without labeling them by gender-- there's more variation within each gender than there is between the averages of the two. And very few people are actually at the average. I know men and women with long legs and short torsos, and men and women with stubby legs and long torsos. More people might get better fits if they labeled them a little differently.

Maybe, but for a dork like me, it was the best thing ever that I was just told that WSD would work with my build and height. If some man had started talking measurements to me, I would have lost my patience. So, I'm not sure it is so bad to say the bikes are built for women. And also, I can guarantee you that very few men could fit the handle bars unless their shoulders are very narrow!

Maybe, but for a dork like me, it was the best thing ever that I was just told that WSD would work with my build and height. If some man had started talking measurements to me, I would have lost my patience. So, I'm not sure it is so bad to say the bikes are built for women. And also, I can guarantee you that very few men could fit the handle bars unless their shoulders are very narrow!

Yeah, but bars are really easy to change. They're like stems and pedals.

Good fitters won't talk numbers, they'll tell/show you where your parts should be, and it will be adjusted for your style of riding and comfort.

And it's not at all unusual for a person's "ideal" fit to change over time, depending a lot on how they ride.

These bars might help.
http://www.glorycycles.com/fsawiprocoro.html

im just going to call the manager, i think he's the man that can get the job done, i don't think the salesperson will be able to make an exchange? the fitter was also a salesperson, he actually found the bike for me.

it's just all too confusing and frustrating.

This shouldn't be the first time they had this problem, and it won't be the last. They are much better at fixing it then you would be. If they don't know it now, they will know it.

ok, im going to meet my friend who can take a look at the fit and confirm. I really trust his opinion. I LOVE HIM for coming through. details to follow tonight.

tata for now!

also remember that a 1-2 cm change has more overall effect the smaller the person is. my wife is 5'2" and anything over a 50 cm top tube (effective/horizontal) is too stretched out for her.
her main road bike is a 45cm lemond (498mm effective top tube) with an 80mm stem
her singespeed is a bianchi san jose (50cm eff. tt) with a 70mm stem.
both have super short reach bars as well.

Looking at the specialized geometry you're only losing 10 mm of headtube by going to the 48cm so getting the bars high enough shouldn't be an issue.
Go with your gut.
Fwiw i have a good friend (specialized world mtb champ Rebecca Rusch) with a Ruby and she absolutely loves it. Once you get it sorted and feel good about the fit it'll be interesting to hear how you like a carbon frame (I'm a total convert)
one thing i would suggest is wait a few rides before you cut the steerer on the fork and play with how much drop you want.
good luck and don't get frustrated, it'll be worth it to get it right.

Hmm...I have a 5'3" friend that rides a 51 Dolce. But a lot would depend on your body proportions (leg to torso).

The main reason for WSD designs is that in women have up to a full inch shorter reach than men of similar height - most of it is difference in arm length.

One other reason for hands/wrists hurting is they may have set the saddle too far forward, which puts more weight forward. In general, you should have your body weight balanced over the pedals with very little weight on the hands. When you are sitting on the saddle, can you lift your hands off the bars without feeling the strain in your back?

ok, im going to meet my friend who can take a look at the fit and confirm. I really trust his opinion. I LOVE HIM for coming through. details to follow tonight.

tata for now!

So how did this go? What did your friend think of the fit?

You should have stuck with the Colnago.

OK here are the developments. Saw my friend last night he suggested i go back and try the my current set up with a 70 mm stem and gave me measurements to dial in the 48 so that it would be about 1.5cm shorter reach to see if i really need to go to the 48. At one point he mentioned i should get the smaller size then he didn't really say yea or nae on the fit being too big. he said only i know, which is true, i feel a little stretched. He did mention that my seat could GO BACK A TAD and that would only push me further away from the bars.

SO, today i call the shop to let the fitter know whats up. basically that i am coming in and want to try my bike with a 70m stem and maybe try out the 48. He again assures me that I am on the right size and that he would have me sign off on the 48 cause it was too small blah blah blah. I was super nice, i told him i wasn't questioning his fit and the shop was rad, but I had this nagging feeling that it was just 1.5 cm too long in the reach and that I would rather stop riding it and figure it out now than try to adjust and 2 months realize it is definitely long and get stuck spending all this cash on the wrong size bike.

So basically I have to go back in and try my bike with a 70 and maybe try out the 48. Fitter dude is vehement about the 51 being the right size and made me feel kind of bad, though he said we'll take care of it. I know I annoyed him.

Who knows, maybe a 70 mm stem will solve this entire thing and i can actually ride the damn thing without worrying about returning it. It's like a cloud that is following me around :(

I asked if they had a 70 stem in stock and he said that theyre hard to come by and maybe they could take one off a bike if they had one. UM okay? so? i drive down there bike and all and no 70 stem? roadblock number 3. Here's another road block, he's not going to be there when i can go until next week. This is super frustrating. i just want to ride a damn bike.

Edit, i called back and asked the salesman to track down a 70mm stem before i drop in, so my visit won't be futile.

sounds like fitter is more concerned about being 'right' than making sure you are comfortable and happy.

they weren't trying to put me on the wrong size bike or anything, they ordered the 51, while they had the 48 on the floor. And i think he's just passionate because he knows in his heart i'm on the right bike, BUT for me, it just feels a tad long.

The fitter should be listening to what your body is reacting to the fit. It looks like he is only looking at one part of the problem ... design. His job is not finished. I guess he never heard of the concept of fine adjustments, and more importantly, customer service. Remember, with good customer service, the customer is always right. :D

I was super excited about doing it the right way, buying from a LBS (instead of ebay) and dropping the cash to get the right bike. this is annoying and stressful.

they weren't trying to put me on the wrong size bike or anything, they ordered the 51, while they had the 48 on the floor. And i think he's just passionate because he knows in his heart i'm on the right bike, BUT for me, it just feels a tad long.

There's no need to make excuses for anyone. I think a lot of women do that to justify why they let men treat them in certain ways. You said yourself that he made you feel bad . On what planet is it good customer service to make your clients feel bad???? Bottom line- if you're not comfortable on the bike , you're not going to ride it. So they better do right by the considerable amount of money you're handing over to them.

i have a 70mm threadless stem you could try, pm if you want to borrow it. btw- a 70mm stem will not do crazy things to the handling of the bike, and on such a small frame would be fine if it gets you in the right place.
the fitter should act as a guide and give you a point to start at. you are the one thats going to be putting in the miles on it so your feeling on the bike is very important.
it takes me quite a few rides, more like a few weeks usually, to totally dial in every aspect of a new bike, so whatever you pick it'll still take some time to get it just right.

Bruce....is the 70mm stem oversized? I believe her bars are oversized.

you did do it the right way, by the way, and should expect nothing less than excellent customer service.
if you bought the wrong size on ebay it would be more stressful.
also- if the shop leaves you bummed out, i would SO get on the phone directly to specialized and tell them exactly whats up. it's amazing what that can do for you.

Bruce....is the 70mm stem oversized? I believe her bars are oversized.
ahhh......i forgot the 70mm is 26.0mm
sorry..

when you're stretched out 1cm can make a big difference. i did tell him I wanted comfort above performance and everything else. he did take that into consideration after i pretty much made him put the shorter stem on there and flip the stem.

I'm willing to try more to see if i can adjust, but i am worried it will be non exchangeable by that point.

I called a friend who has fitting experience, maybe he can see me on it tonight and give me his opinion.

I had a 'very' adjustable stem on my roubaix... I had to take pressure off of my wrist so I had them adjust it up to a 16 degree angle which of course, cut the reach a bit too... maybe something like that would help if you are just getting used to the more stretched out position? Then it could be dropped back down later if you wanted. I am not too knowedgeable in this but as I was reading your saga, I thought maybe that would be something to try...

it's already at the highest position +16 :)

I was super excited about doing it the right way, buying from a LBS (instead of ebay) and dropping the cash to get the right bike. this is annoying and stressful.

If you've been riding for a while, trying the 70 is to confirm you need the smaller size frame. It's not to make due with an ill fitting bike.

If you haven't ridden much, and your body "may" stretch out, then going from an 80 to 90 might be plausible, but going from a 70 to a 90? The 90 indicates the frame is at least a tad large.

If this were a situation where someone gave you a frame at less than 1/2 price, I would expect you to go through some hoops. Telling you the frame size is right doesn't make you feel any better, or change how it rides, or fix the problem. You make the final decision here and hold them to the fire if need be. That is your right to have them fix the problem.

my wrists get tired after 15 miles and i want to ride about 1-2cm shorter than where my hoods are now. i just feel mildly stretched or as if i'm reaching.

I would definately go talk to them... I felt very stretched on the roubaix initially and I made my lbs switch things out constantly (which they did happily and without a single complaint ever) until I was more upright. My previous bike was a touring bike so I was used to a much more upright position so I put a
90mm stem and had it at a 16degree angle for the first 6 months... and then I started feeling cramped (as I got used to the position) and was then able to put the stem back to the original 110cm and the angle down to 8degrees....

I'd definately talk to the lbs immediatly but it sounds like you need more saddle time to be sure...

If you're already stretch out, more time on an ill fitting bike will confirm the problem even more so :(

it's already at the highest position +16 :)

Sorry, I read that after I had already commented. You may want to send a pm to velogirl and ask her to read the thread and comment. She did my fitting and changed some things pretty dramatically and its made a big difference for me... since she deals with a lot of women's fittings, maybe she has come across a similar situation and might have a suggestion???

I am going to meet another friend on Friday who actually built a custom frame for me in the past. Hopefully he can either reassure me or send me off to get the new frame. the only thing is that he won't see me on the 48, only the 51. Anyway, i am going to try out the 70 mm stem at the shop on thursday cause i dont want to sit on it. I also want them to know what's going on. I will then roll to my friend's on Friday and hopefully have a decision made by the weekend so i can freaking ride the damn thing or return it. I am avoiding more miles on it because i want it to be returnable. Also, the current stem is an 80mm, though he assured me the 90 was a perfect fit i kind of made him change it because it felt a little long. Who knows, maybe it is fit, but i'm a softie? Is it too much to ask to be comofrtable? Do your hands get tired after 15-20 miles?

I am going to meet another friend on Friday who actually built a custom frame for me in the past. Hopefully he can either reassure me or send me off to get the new frame. the only thing is that he won't see me on the 48, only the 51. Anyway, i am going to try out the 70 mm stem at the shop on thursday cause i dont want to sit on it. I also want them to know what's going on. I will then roll to my friend's on Friday and hopefully have a decision made by the weekend so i can freaking ride the damn thing or return it. I am avoiding more miles on it because i want it to be returnable. Also, the current stem is an 80mm, though he assured me the 90 was a perfect fit i kind of made him change it because it felt a little long. Who knows, maybe it is fit, but i'm a softie? Is it too much to ask to be comofrtable? Do your hands get tired after 15-20 miles?

My hands did for a while and the fitting Lorrie did helped quite a bit with that (moved the seat and then re-adjusted the bars) She also suggested I get narrower bars and on one of the bikes, bars with a shallower reach.... HUGE difference. Keep us posted! I can imagine how frustrating this must be for you :o

It might be different for everyone? But, when I'm stretched out, it doesn't feel bad on the early miles. Being stretched out, my elbows aren't as bent as they should be, and able to act as a shock. My shoulder muscles and joint take the brunt of the vibration from the ride. It goes straight from the hands through the arms into the shoulders.

Tell that idiot fitter that he isn't riding the bike, you are. Needing a 70mm stem to fix a frame problem is moronic. They are not your friends, they work for you...they should fix it or take it back!