OK, here's the deal. I JUST purchased a new bike from a shop. The fitter advised against the 48 cm because it was too small and said he would probably have me sign a waiver if i decided to purchase it because it would destroy my knees. He suggested the 51 and i took his advice, since he knows more than I do about these things. I did test ride both sizes, but it's hard to tell unless you're on a longer ride.
Long story short. I pick up the bike and he fits me to it (51) I ask again like 3 times if the 48 was definitely too small as I feel a little stretched out on the 51. He assures me everythign is dialed in and that all the angles etc are right. Well, guess what? IT STILL FEELS LONG IN THE TOP TUBE! By the way, this is AFTER we put an 80mm stem on there (even though he said the 90 was perfect)
So i took it home, rode it about 30 miles and still feel the same way. I asked a few ladies who have the same bike that are the same height and most were fitted on the 48.
So what do i do? I just dropped 2k on a bike that doesn't feel completely right. I am not trying to call the fitter out on an error or anything. I just want to be happy about spending that much money, but most importantly, I want to be COMFORTABLE.What would you do in this position? The bike is not even a week old yet. i picked it up last Wednesday. Also, i should mention it was an 07 model they had shipped here. The shop was really rad, and i'm not trying to bad talk anyone. I'm just kind of bummed out.
Details: I am 5'4" and the tt is 51.8cm, kinda long, right? here are some more numbers on my current fit:
knee angle 155
hip angle 110
shoulder angle 88.5
reach: 44.3cm
aero reach: 56.2
What would you do?
ride more hoping itll feel better?
sell it on ebay?
try to make some other adjustments (like what?) to somehow alleviate it (note i can't go any shorter on the stem)
say something to the shop? (though i would hate to do this)
any other suggestions?
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
You spent 2k at the shop to buy a new bike. They should make it right. And you shouldn't feel guilty about it. The end.
Oh, and 80 mm would result in some crazy handling issues. no?
cruiserhead
which shop did you buy from?
so you have a 2cm variance between a 48 and 51 (-1cm for the shorter stem).
I don't understand how this could damage your knees in any way.
I really think you should go back and tell them this isn't working out. You felt the 48 was more comfortable but was talked into the 51, trusting their opinion. It didn't work so they need to swap the frame out or otherwise fit it properly.
Anyway, as much as you hate it, I think going back to the shop and resolving it is the best (and least expensive) approach. good luck.
ilmooz
Is the bike this year's or last year's model? Twice I've looked at bikes that were remaining stock models left over from the previous year marked down in price. One salesman assured me his only remaining 54cm bike was perfect for my 6'0", 32" inseam height, and another salesman was certain his last 62cm bike would be a perfect fit for me. Unfortunately there are people who are more interested in clearing their inventory than fitting you correctly on your purchase. Hopefully that wasn't the case with you.
I'd definitely go back to the shop and voice my concerns. If they're a reputable shop and there aren't any "no return" contingencies on your purchase I would think they would exchange for the correct bike. Good luck!
big john
Did you have a good fitting road bike before? Have you been on a road bike that you were comfortable with? If so, you should try and duplicate that fit. Conventional wisdom doesn't work for everyone, some of us have odd fit issues, and some shops don't know how to deal with that.
I think if you have an 80mm stem and still feel too stretched out, the top tube is probably too long. Are the bars high enough?
I also think the shop should do whatever they need to so you are happy with it, even if that means a different frame or fork. Don't feel guilty, it's your money and your comfort.
efficiency
Take it back to the shop. They need to make it right. The whole point of buying a new bike from a shop (as opposed to online) is so that issues like this need to get handled.
I also don't see how a 48cm would destroy your needs. You would just need a longer seatpost.
iamtim
You spent 2k at the shop to buy a new bike. They should make it right. And you shouldn't feel guilty about it. The end.
+1.
Take it back, do it soon. If you approach the bike shop dude like you approached this thread ("Look, I'm not talking smack, you guys rock, but I'm just not comfortable on this bike,") there should be no reason for either you to feel guilty or the shop to feel bad about it.
merider1
I agree with all posters...you must take it back and have them fix it. If they are the least bit reputable, they should. I got talked into a smaller frame when I bought a women's specific bike, but it worked out for me and I love the fit. Had it not, I would have been back in there demanding they fix it too as much of a pain it is to deal with. Sorry you have to deal with it!
bitingduck
Yep, take it back and get the right frame before you start putting wear on the one you got. They might even be able to order a frame and swap all the parts. I know other people that's happened to and the shop fixed it when they went back with it, especially if you're nice about it and have the approach you used in this thread (as mentioned above).
My other recommendation would be to bring someone along who is a decent bike fitter and have them tweak your position around. Unless the person at the shop is a well known fitter you can't necessarily trust their fit.
bitingduck
Oh, and 80 mm would result in some crazy handling issues. no?
No.
Terror_in_pink
thanks for the input.
I think I will call atoday. Should I ask to speak to the manager, dude who sold me the bike, or dude who fit me?
Also, you guys don't think it'll be a problem that it was an 07 model they had shipped from Specialized?
roadfix
No.
+1
I run a 60mm stem on one bike. No handling issues.
iamtim
Also, you guys don't think it'll be a problem that it was an 07 model they had shipped from Specialized?
Maybe. But I don't think that's *your* problem. I think that's something the bike shop is going to have to deal with on the back end. You're the customer and you were sold a bike that is not comfortable for you, even after voicing your concerns about it. They need to fix that.
bitingduck
thanks for the input.
I think I will call atoday. Should I ask to speak to the manager, dude who sold me the bike, or dude who fit me?
Also, you guys don't think it'll be a problem that it was an 07 model they had shipped from Specialized?
No- it shouldn't really matter. When it happened to my friend it was a small frame (a 46) that they shipped from the regional distributor, put all the parts on, and sent her home with. The sent a 49 instead, and when she swapped it they just dealt with it.
They deal with this kind of thing all the time, and the loss anyone is going to take on it is probably minimal, mostly just the time it takes to take care of things.
Grumpy Pig
No- it shouldn't really matter. When it happened to my friend it was a small frame (a 46) that they shipped from the regional distributor, put all the parts on, and sent her home with. The sent a 49 instead, and when she swapped it they just dealt with it.
They deal with this kind of thing all the time, and the loss anyone is going to take on it is probably minimal, mostly just the time it takes to take care of things.
I got my bike because the shop ordered a frame that was too big for someone else.
tombunn
Should I ask to speak to the manager, dude who sold me the bike, or dude who fit me?
Your choice, but if I were doing it, I probably would give the salesperson a chance to make it right before going over his head. But don't hesitate to go to the manager if you are not satisfied.
Terror_in_pink
well that's the odd thing.
one dude was my salesperson and another dude was my fitter, who suggested the size.
Surferbruce
Take it back and plainly tell them THEY messed up and you need the next size down. period.
tombunn
Just a guess here, but I don't think the fitter will have authority to take the bike back, but the salesperson will. He is the one responsible for your satisfaction.
Terror_in_pink
im just going to call the manager, i think he's the man that can get the job done, i don't think the salesperson will be able to make an exchange? the fitter was also a salesperson, he actually found the bike for me.
it's just all too confusing and frustrating.
BigSean
You spent 2k at the shop to buy a new bike. They should make it right. And you shouldn't feel guilty about it. The end.
Oh, and 80 mm would result in some crazy handling issues. no?
Not really, but it would indicate that she would of been fine on the 48.
General rule of thumb, when riding seated and in the drops the hub on the front wheel should be hidden by the bars. If the hub is on the seat side then the stem may be too long, if the hub is seen in front then the stem may be too short.
timmhaan
bike fitting can be subjective. however, no matter how you look at it, you voiced your concerns many times during the fitting and it sounds like he basically ignored you.
however, i will say that my fit has essentially changed over the past couple of seasons. the same bike that used to feel so stretched out on me feels just right now. just something to keep in mind (not to try to sway you or anything).
BCIpam
Sounds like you know about bikes and know best but sometimes it takes a while to get use to a new ftting or different size bike. My thought at 5'4" that 51 is probably your size. The 48 is probably too small (unless your upper body is very short). If you are unhappy with the handling or feel, I would take it back and ask for adjustments. Maybe some fine tuning is required. I would ask the fitter about his choices and why he made them. After talking it through you may find he was right. I remember the first time i got sized on my bike and I thought the guy was crazy. I was so uncomfortable but I kept riding and now I can't imagine going back to the old way. Before I was very upright now I am very laid out and love it. In fact I wish now I had gotten the bigger bike (I chose the 51 over a 53 that the fitter recommended). Have you at least ridden the bike for a month? If not, I would give it some more time. It would be worst if you got a too small bike and then after riding realize it's too small. Hard to make a small bike work. Alittle bigger is easier.
BTW I have a 80 mm stem on my bike (to accomodate my weird ergo carbon handlebars) and I have no handling problems.
merider1
im just going to call the manager, i think he's the man that can get the job done, i don't think the salesperson will be able to make an exchange? the fitter was also a salesperson, he actually found the bike for me.
it's just all too confusing and frustrating.
I hear ya, lady. But I'll admit that a good fit is so important. You get through this and get the bike you want, you'll love it and ride it, and that's all that matters. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
spinerguy
What everyone said, additionally I vote for a 50 frame.
DScott
im just going to call the manager, i think he's the man that can get the job done, i don't think the salesperson will be able to make an exchange? the fitter was also a salesperson, he actually found the bike for me.
it's just all too confusing and frustrating.
I'll jump in:
If part of your confusion is that you're not sure the bike really fits you, then that would be the first order of business, IMO. I can understand the frustration, too, as you seem to have relied on their recommendatins and it hasn't worked out real well.
IMO, it's very hard to know who to trust in this whole bike fitting biz. So many "professional bike fitters" seem to have their own agenda/philosophy/ego they're trying to push. Bike fit is a black art, it seems...
It might be worth it to have a neutral third party take a look at the fit. Consider a consultation with one of the more reputable fit specialists in your area, just to answer the question: "can this bike be made to fit me well, and if not, is the smaller frame necessary?"
If the answer is no it can't, then back you go to the sellers. They should make it right, IMO.
Good luck, and keep us posted!
DScott
And, what little I know about frame fit is that top tube length is more critical to good fit than seat tube length.
How do the measurements of this bike compare to your last and/or most comfortable bike of a similar style?
How similar are the tube lengths, angles, seat-handlebar height and the like?
Terror_in_pink
there is no 50 cm frame it jumps from 48cm to 51cm (the 51 has a 51.8 TT) and (the 48 has 50.6)
DScott, my last bike was the worst fit ever. I did have a custom frame built, which i didn't even think of checking until recently.
the custom's tt is 50cm long center to center. it's set up as a townie though, so i can't be extremely positive if that measurement will work as a road set up.
BCIpam
you know we aren't talking inches its centrimeters. not much difference at all.
I think dscott has an excellent suggestion. I would ask the bike shop to split the 3rd party fit with you and seek out a second opinion.
Things to consider: I don't know you so don't know your riding experience but if you are a newer rider it's not unusual to have alittle discomfort at first. It takes time to adjust to a new fit and new bike. If you are an older established rider, one whose done many a century on a old, trusty bike and that fit worked well for you, no complaints, then that's your criteria. Have your old bike measured and seek out the bike that best suits those geometries.
I do believe the shop has your best interests in mind particular since it has a "fitter" as opposed to a saleperson who asks "Like the color?" "then that bike fits ya!" They did try to do the right thing. Some questions: when you were being fitted, did they have you ride on a fit bike for at least 20 minutes? Did the fitter ask you questions about your riding experience - do you like to ride upright or are you trying to become more efficient, faster and thus in a more race type position?
Again my thought if you have taken the bike out only once or twice and it seems ackward that may be OK. If you have ridden it alot in a month and you still feel uncomfortable, then that may be problem. First speak with the shop and see what they say and go from there. Good luck.
BCIpam
it's set up as a townie though,
That explains alot. You are used to being upright. The new bike will put you in a more efficient cycling position; you just need time to get used to being more laid out, unless you plan on riding upright but then I would have just gotten another townie bike.
Terror_in_pink
when you're stretched out 1cm can make a big difference. i did tell him I wanted comfort above performance and everything else. he did take that into consideration after i pretty much made him put the shorter stem on there and flip the stem.
I'm willing to try more to see if i can adjust, but i am worried it will be non exchangeable by that point.
I called a friend who has fitting experience, maybe he can see me on it tonight and give me his opinion.
BigSean
After looking at the geometry of the 2 sizes I have to agree with the fitter. The angler are a bit more tradional on the 51. The difference in top tube was made up by a shorter stem. So if the seat positioning is fine with the knee to spindle, then the rest is easily adjusted. Perhaps you are just not used to it. But if you have a picture of you on the bike, it would be easier to judge.
I know when I first got my bike I felt like it was a big stretch. I ended up getting a longer stem after a year. Also the Ruby has a adjustable stem, is it flipped up?
Terror_in_pink
That explains alot. You are used to being upright. The new bike will put you in a more efficient cycling position; you just need time to get used to being more laid out, unless you plan on riding upright but then I would have just gotten another townie bike.
No, i also had a colnago road bike that was totally uncomfortable because the tt was too long?
Terror_in_pink
part of me also wonders if all this fitting crap follows standards for MEN.
Just because something works for men and is a general rule of thumb, should it be applied towards women as well?
cruiserhead
I noticed there are some important geometry changes between the 48 and 51 that you linked.
Really, it's the responsibility of the people that sold it to you to "make it right".
Hopefully some adjustments and possible component changes can get you comfortable. It's a nice looking bike
big john
part of me also wonders if all this fitting crap follows standards for MEN.
Just because something works for men and is a general rule of thumb, should it be applied towards women as well?
None of this fitting crap works for everyone, man or woman. If you don't like it, it doesn't matter what anyone says. You're the one who is going to spend hours on it.
Terror_in_pink
i don't think theres mcuh else i can change other than go shorter on the stem.
you guys think i would get speed wobbles or it would get too twitchy if i put a 70 mm stem on there?
Terror_in_pink
I noticed there are some important geometry changes between the 48 and 51 that you linked.
Really, it's the responsibility of the people that sold it to you to "make it right".
Hopefully some adjustments and possible component changes can get you comfortable. It's a nice looking bike
can you go into more detail? I am unsure of how these changes might come into play.
merider1
part of me also wonders if all this fitting crap follows standards for MEN.
Just because something works for men and is a general rule of thumb, should it be applied towards women as well?
Well, my two cents, TIP, is that women specific bikes are the way to go. I'm 5'5" and built like a normal woman (i.e., I ain't no supermodel and I have hips), and the first bike I owned was a standard Trek 1000, size 54. I didn't know any better and just adjusted to the fit as best I could. But I had neck and back issues along with knee issues for the time I owned the bike. When I upgraded to Patsy (my Trek 1500), I was talked into a WSD, 51 (and I argued vehmently with my lbs about it until finally agreeing to the bike) She fits me like a glove. The handle bars are the best improvement as they are exactly the width of my shoulders (and I'm not kidding). All back/neck/knee issues went out the window. Now, I'm constantly being told I need to be fitted "better" as my hips rock...but I don't know whom to listen to since some say, "raise the seat" and others say, "lower it." But with all things considered, and rocking hips aside, the womens specific design is wonderful, IMO. The men on here may scoff at the notion that a WSD offers all that much to women, but I would be one to disagree. Unless I wanted to build a bike up (which I don't), this is the closest match I've found.
So, yes, I do agree with you...most bikes are built with men in mind. But there are options out there.
Terror_in_pink
me, out of curiousity, what's the tt length on that trek 1500?
merider1
me, out of curiousity, what's the tt length on that trek 1500?
Can you please speak English. :p
Kidding...;) I'll call my lbs right now and get back to you.
big john
M.E., the Ruby is a women's bike.
TIP, I don't think 1/4 degree difference is dramatic. Are the bars too low?
Nachoman
when you're stretched out 1cm can make a big difference. i did tell him I wanted comfort above performance and everything else. he did take that into consideration after i pretty much made him put the shorter stem on there and flip the stem.
I'm willing to try more to see if i can adjust, but i am worried it will be non exchangeable by that point.I called a friend who has fitting experience, maybe he can see me on it tonight and give me his opinion.
That's why it's important to bring it to their attention immediately, so they don't accuse you of sitting on your hands and later changing your mind.
Terror_in_pink
M.E., the Ruby is a women's bike.
TIP, I don't think 1/4 degree difference is dramatic. Are the bars too low?
the stem is at +16 right now
merider1
me, out of curiousity, what's the tt length on that trek 1500?
Just talked to my lbs and my tt is 50.6.
big john
the stem is at +16 right now
+16? Are the bars a lot lower than the saddle?
Terror_in_pink
dude thats 1.2 shorter than mine and you're an inch taller! :(
thanks by the way
also, what is your stem length?
Terror_in_pink
+16? Are the bars a lot lower than the saddle?
not much. ever so slightly lower. i thought about how raising them a lil more might make it a closer reach, but i am not sure how much closer.
Happytime
Th Ruby is a women's specific bike (like the one I have) and seatpost angle or not, I would guess than any bike with an 80 stem that makes you feel "stretched out" is too big for you. Judging from what you have written, I don't have a lot of faith in your fitter. A 3rd party fit is a good idea. If you have the time, I recommend you taking down to Surf City in Huntington Beach and talk to Mike or Sean.
Regardless, the LBS should make you happy. Specialized stands behind their product and if your LBS gives you trouble, I would think it's them and not the bike that's the biggest problem.