Crash Curse Be Gone!

[merider1]

So far this year, this is what I have:

Those who have crashed:

Jpconrad
Merider1
dddave
Keith Brodsky
Thomson
Grasshopper
(am I missing anyone?)

Honorable mentions who crashed last year and pretty significantly:

Awiner
Big John
UMD
Indolent (okay, he put his hand in his wheel - but it counts!)
Vireo

I'm superstitious and believe that someone has put a curse on us. I say throw salt over your shoulder before evey ride, people, and carry a crucifix and holy water....or put some garlic around your neck...something!

I'm going to do some chants today and light some candles (or turn on a flashlight and flick it a few times since I'll be at work and they don't like that whole open flame thing) in an attempt to rid the curse.


Everyone, please, be careful out there. :(

[gr@sshopper]

Eh, I don't really belong on that list. I was pushing the bike, so I feel bad calling it a crash. But seriously, yo, How's about yall let me be the last one??

[merider1]

Eh, I don't really belong on that list. I was pushing the bike, so I feel bad calling it a crash. But seriously, yo, How's about yall let me be the last one??

You were "hiking a bike" and that most certainly counts. But I second the notion that you be the last one!

[big john]

Thomson?

[merider1]

Thomson?

:cry: Yes.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=6262509&postcount=8996

[alicestrong]

...a few more off the top of my head who crashed or got hit by a car...Jen Klausner, Slackar, Cole, Jeronimo, Yogi from Stans (and a few others from there...they have noticed a rash of crashes, many more than usual also) Nelson, Tiffany, Mike...

People from out of these circles but discussed...Brian Fu, Matthew Mager, Jason MacIntyre

[Psydotek]

You've just jinxed the rest of us... :lol:

:(

I've had my share of falls so i think i'm good. :D

[VanceMac]

I asked a few SFVBC old-timers, and they all felt (albeit anecdotally) that 2007 was the worst year ever for crashes in the club. There are at least three of them that are still off the bike. Here's hoping that 2008 brings the average back down.

[thomson]

An FYI, I talked with Ken Mecurio last week on the 3 month anniversary of his accident. He is the guy whose fork blades just sheered off when he was going about 30mph. He had some broken cervical vertebrae. Anyway, he is off his braces. He has been riding a stationary recumbent for a while and now has switched to his DF bike on a trainer. He expects to be back on the road in August. The best part is his spirits were great!!

[merider1]

An FYI, I talked with Ken Mecurio last week on the 3 month anniversary of his accident. He is the guy whose fork blades just sheered off when he was going about 30mph. He had some broken cervical vertebrae. Anyway, he is off his braces. He has been riding a stationary recumbent for a while and now has switched to his DF bike on a trainer. He expects to be back on the road in August. The best part is his spirits were great!!

Him and the other gentelman (Eric?) who hurt his face quite badly. They both took it hard. It's good to hear Ken is healing. And the other gentleman? Update on him?

[big john]

Him and the other gentelman (Eric?) who hurt his face quite badly. They both took it hard. It's good to hear Ken is healing. And the other gentleman? Update on him?

If you're asking about SFVBC member Eric, who crashed near the Rock Store last July, he is not riding. He sustained nerve damage and is still having trouble seeing out of his left eye.

As a SFVBC member since 1989, it does seem like there are a lot more crashes this last year, or so, but that could be partly because of the internet and the access to more information.
This is a very dangerous thing we do, and there have been bad crashes ever since I have been aware of riding. I don't think it's some sort of curse, if anything it might be related to more people pushing themselves to ride more and faster. Sometimes it gets to the point that I want to quit, or at least stay away from road riding for a while.

[merider1]

If you're asking about SFVBC member Eric, who crashed near the Rock Store last July, he is not riding. He sustained nerve damage and is still having trouble seeing out of his left eye.
Sometimes it gets to the point that I want to quit, or at least stay away from road riding for a while.

:( Sorry to hear that, and I hope his eye heals 100%. As for the road riding, please don't quit John. I just think we all need to be aware.

I'm obviously joking with the whole "curse" thing, but it does seem like a lot of injuries of late. I do agree though, that with this forum, we have access to more riders and information about them than if we were not all on here.

[thomson]

If you're asking about SFVBC member Eric, who crashed near the Rock Store last July, he is not riding. He sustained nerve damage and is still having trouble seeing out of his left eye.

As a SFVBC member since 1989, it does seem like there are a lot more crashes this last year, or so, but that could be partly because of the internet and the access to more information.
This is a very dangerous thing we do, and there have been bad crashes ever since I have been aware of riding. I don't think it's some sort of curse, if anything it might be related to more people pushing themselves to ride more and faster. Sometimes it gets to the point that I want to quit, or at least stay away from road riding for a while.

Then again, John, every time I have been riding with you, you are always smiling!!

[Cassave]

I wonder what percentage of these recent crashes were caused by
mechanical failures?

Certainly the sheared fork is one.

Any data on others precipitated by collapsed wheels, forks, stems, hbars, seat posts
or worst off all, frames?

[Socalcycling]

don't forget your boyfriend. he seems to crash all the time.. haha your a perfect match..

[big john]

don't forget your boyfriend. he seems to crash all the time.. haha your a perfect match..
Who's boyfriend?

[thomson]

I wonder what percentage of these recent crashes were caused by
mechanical failures?

Certainly the sheared fork is one.

Any data on others precipitated by collapsed wheels, forks, stems, hbars, seat posts
or worst off all, frames?

Mine was user error. Sand in road on turn. Eyes did not see. Tires did.

[big john]

I wonder what percentage of these recent crashes were caused by
mechanical failures?

Certainly the sheared fork is one.

Any data on others precipitated by collapsed wheels, forks, stems, hbars, seat posts
or worst off all, frames?

My worst crash (1988) was on the bike path when my front wheel collapsed, after I was bumped by a rider behind me.
I have crashed twice after pedals have snapped off, both times at low speed. The other time a pedal snapped, I didn't fall.
I think most crashes on bikes, as well as in cars, are the result of pilot error.

[Go_Fast]

the first rule of crashing is you don't talk about crashing.

[Rick@OCRR]

2006 was painful. Six crashes, all significant (painfully) and twice in the ER.

My wife said "Enough! No more crashes!" So I was good all of 2007, and so far in 2008. Will try to keep my "upright" trend going.

Yes, I ride more conservatively. I only draft those I know, and I trust, and I don't hammer down the descents like I used to. So far so good!

Rick / OCRR

[Arab T.R. Wrist]

Well I don't know any of the folk personally, but I've certainly had my share of car-tag sessions. 2k7 was a horrid year for just about everything, but I hope everyone is okay and the new year gets safer.

[DaveSANYYZ]

Anyone know if there's a bike handling skills clinic? I think I need to learn some skillz. :D

[Shprung]

BTW, you can add me to the 2007; it wasn't a big one, but from that crash in Dec. I am riding slower (especially down hills) and alot less. Well, to top it I was sick for like a month too.

[ovoleg]

So far this year, this is what I have:

Those who have crashed:

Jpconrad
Merider1
dddave
Keith Brodsky
Thomson
Grasshopper
(am I missing anyone?)

Honorable mentions who crashed last year and pretty significantly:

Awiner
Big John
UMD
Indolent (okay, he put his hand in his wheel - but it counts!)
Vireo

I'm superstitious and believe that someone has put a curse on us. I say throw salt over your shoulder before evey ride, people, and carry a crucifix and holy water....or put some garlic around your neck...something!

I'm going to do some chants today and light some candles (or turn on a flashlight and flick it a few times since I'll be at work and they don't like that whole open flame thing) in an attempt to rid the curse.


Everyone, please, be careful out there. :(

i crashed 3 times last year

this sport isnt for wusses

its for alphas to win

i drop noobs

[merckx89]

Well I had mine earlier in January and coincidently I feel a lot more confident on the bike now that I have in a long time. Im not really sure why that is, but in packs I do feel a lot more comfortable, the same on downhills. Must have been my crash for the year and now im over it.

[ovoleg]

if you get scared of crashing go join ballet

[cuda2k]

First, I've gone through and removed with is likely more than HALF of the posts from this thread due to uncalled for harassment, drama, and downright trolling.

Second, ladies (and gentlemen too) harassment of any member will not be tolerated on any level on these forums. Nor will trolling in attempts to cause the disruption of a thread by another member. Either you all resolve this via PMs and/or keep it off the open forum, otherwise further action will be taken. Is that clear enough for everyone?

[CritEastwood]

An outstanding job of thread sterilization! Well done.

I feel so safe and secure, especially after all of the venomous posts made by the op were deleted.

[tombunn]

First, I've gone through and removed with is likely more than HALF of the posts from this thread due to uncalled for harassment, drama, and downright trolling.

Thanks. By the way, as a relative newbie, I didn't know what trolling was and found a fascinating discussion here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[socalrider]

I paid my debt to the cycling gods last year.. I was hit and ended up with a broken hand, dislocated knee and torn ACL.. Rehab was slow and tedious..

[Mr. Beanz]

Gina took a lite spill on her first ride of the year. Thank Goodness the bike is ok!:D

[merider1]

Gina took a lite spill on her first ride of the year. Thank Goodness the bike is ok!:D

I hope she's okay!

[Mr. Beanz]

I hope she's okay!

Back in January, I think you read the deal in my SART thread.:p

[merider1]

Back in January, I think you read the deal in my SART thread.:p

I probably did. :o So many crashes, I'm confusing them.

[Allez Oops]

First, I've gone through and removed with is likely more than HALF of the posts from this thread due to uncalled for harassment, drama, and downright trolling.

Second, ladies (and gentlemen too) harassment of any member will not be tolerated on any level on these forums. Nor will trolling in attempts to cause the disruption of a thread by another member. Either you all resolve this via PMs and/or keep it off the open forum, otherwise further action will be taken. Is that clear enough for everyone?

I would welcome a definition of trolling. I've requested this via PM to a moderator, but received no response. Understandable, since I know you all are kept busy.

Some guidelines about acceptable vs. unacceptable drama would also be helpful.

And if there is such a thing as called-for harrassment, versus uncalled-for harassment, I would be interested in that as well, on a mostly semantic level.

Thanks.

[bitingduck]

Trolling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) was well described in the wikipedia page linked above.

What happened in this thread was more flamebait (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamebait)->mild flamewar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_%28Internet%29) (pie fight? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_%28Internet%29#Pie_fights))

Good bicycle related examples of both, some of whom have practiced for many years and refined the art, can be found in the original RBR-- rec.bicycles.racing (and it's siblings .soc, .rides,.tech, and plain old rec.bicycles.).

Neither is generally welcome most places--it was basically trolls, flamewars, and spam that relegated most of Usenet to a backwater of the tubes we call the internet. c.f. September that never ended (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September).

That's why most successful forums/bbs's have moderators. Even Fark, SomethingAwful, and far less civilized places.

[Allez Oops]

Thanks, b-duck.

My experience from back in ye olde days of usenet was that folks generally chose their words and topics more carefully then. If you had a question, or something useful to share, you did so with a minimum of fuss, flourish, and drama. There was a shared understanding about what was appropriate and useful, and the groups tended to self-moderate.

What I see now, more and more, is a confessional, Dear Diary, unfiltered level of "sharing" going on, which I would argue is in itself a form of trolling. Communiques that might be better handled in a one-to-one basis are being broadcast on a one-to-many way.

BikeForums has, what, 100,000 registered users, and who knows how many unregistered readers.

EDIT: LOL at "pie fight." That was new to me, but fitting. Thanks!

[bitingduck]

The regional subforums (like most general forums anywhere) are essentially asynchronous chat forums, which easily degenerate into trollfests and flamewars without moderation. Even topical forums (e.g. Road Cycling) generate quite a few of them, but the more narrow the topic, generally the fewer (with some exceptions-e.g. vi vs emacs in a text editor newsgroup).

The SoCal subforum tends to be somewhat more civilized than the average general forum because many of us have met each other in real life, and even if we haven't, the number of degrees of separation tends to be very small between cyclists in SoCal.

[Allez Oops]

Interesting perspective, b-duck. Thanks.

My impression of the other regional subforums on BikeFo is that they actually tend to be more civil and less pie-fight prone than SoCal. But that is admittedly based on casual, intermittent scanning of those forums' content as an outside observer, so I could very well be missing conflict that you've seen in those forums.

[bitingduck]

The next largest regional subforum has 10% as many posts as SoCal, and likely far fewer users than SoCal-- they're marginally self sustaining, and if they flame each other they have to either talk to themselves or go back the Road Cycling.

[alicestrong]

I would welcome a definition of trolling. I've requested this via PM to a moderator, but received no response. Understandable, since I know you all are kept busy.

Some guidelines about acceptable vs. unacceptable drama would also be helpful.

And if there is such a thing as called-for harrassment, versus uncalled-for harassment, I would be interested in that as well, on a mostly semantic level.

Thanks.

Ask for a defintion of internet bully while you are at it...

Also ask if the online feature "ignore" is ever misused as a way to attempt to "shun" community members who don't somehow tow the line to fit in.

[nekohime]

if you get scared of crashing go join ballet

I used to do ballet and there were some pretty nasty crashes in there too. Being dropped while doing lifts hurts you know. And, and...two ballerinas dancing into each other at full speed--OUCH! >___<#

[Grumpy Pig]

.....
.....
....

Do you people really care about this?

In March 2009 will you even remember this thread?

If the three of you met in person tomorrow, would you stand toe to toe and duke it out? Or would there be some awkwardness before you all hug and go to lunch?

JFC people, move on. If we wanted seriousness and the real world, we'd go elsewhere.

[alicestrong]

I can't say that I've experienced much "harassment" online, but then again, like some members here, I don't generally provoke it with angry personal attacks on others, either. Especially when those others may have a lot of friends who then feel protective or retaliatory.

If you are the target of this sort of thing repeatedly, perhaps you should ask yourself a few questions.

I have no desire to go back to high school, by the way...even metaphorically.

[alicestrong]

Do you people really care about this?

In March 2009 will you even remember this thread?

If the three of you met in person tomorrow, would you stand toe to toe and duke it out? Or would there be some awkwardness before you all hug and go to lunch?




This can only be truly settled in the first Los Angeles All Girl Alleycat Race... ;)

[Siu Blue Wind]

Okay everyone...There has been a lot of cleanup in this thread and it takes a lot of work to do this.

The ones here who are having a bit of differences between themselves might benefit from the ignore feature. Please take advantage of it.

I'd also like to take this time to ask those involved to please refrain from any further snarky remarks, underlying jabs and saracastic hidden stabs at each other.

I really don't think that those who are new to the forums appreciate the drama that unfolds because of this.

I'm serious.

This has got to stop. NOW.

Thank you.

[Indolent58]

To get back on topic, crashing is bad. Not recommended.

[cuda2k]

Allez Oops asked for a definition of Trolling. tombunn provided an excelent link to the wiki entry for the term which provides a very well stated definition:

Thanks. By the way, as a relative newbie, I didn't know what trolling was and found a fascinating discussion here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.


bitingduck also provided some very welcome input on the topic, my thanks. :)

Interesting perspective, b-duck. Thanks.

My impression of the other regional subforums on BikeFo is that they actually tend to be more civil and less pie-fight prone than SoCal. But that is admittedly based on casual, intermittent scanning of those forums' content as an outside observer, so I could very well be missing conflict that you've seen in those forums.

You are correct that other regional subforums are much quieter, both in amount of traffic and amount of problems. It was the SoCal group who originally requested and lobbied for the creation of the regional subforums more than a year ago. This grew out of increasing numbers of ride organization threads in the Road Cycling forum. SoCal has always had a large, active, local presence in the forum, its just that they now have their own 'home' here in the SoCal regional forum.

Ask for a defintion of internet bully while you are at it...

Also ask if the online feature "ignore" is ever misused as a way to attempt to "shun" community members who don't somehow tow the line to fit in.

alice, couldn't find a definition of 'Internet Bully', but did find Cyber-bullying on Wikipedia. The definition is rather lengthy, so you can read it here if you wish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullying

As far as using the 'ignore' feature being misused in attempt to shun community members, I can honestly say I've never heard of such during my time as Moderator or before. Not entirely sure how you could do this unless one person were to attempt to get all of their friends on the forum to also put one person on ignore as well.

I can't say that I've experienced much "harassment" online, but then again, like some members here, I don't generally provoke it with angry personal attacks on others, either. Especially when those others may have a lot of friends who then feel protective or retaliatory.

If you are the target of this sort of thing repeatedly, perhaps you should ask yourself a few questions.

I have no desire to go back to high school, by the way...even metaphorically.

That's good that you don't experience harassment online. And yes, going back to high school even metaphorically is taxing on one's mind. Just imagine having to be the 'teacher' in the middle of a couple of metaphorical high school students going at it. A bit of what the moderators have to deal with some times. It is a fact that sometimes sitting behind a computer screen and responding to someone you don't know and only see as a screen name prompts one to respond in a different way than they would face to face or even over the phone. Pile on top of that the fact that the written word can not convey subtle tones that voice or body language can and it is way too easy to have things taken out of context or misread. This can lead to one feeling slighted when it was not the intent. And this, can sometimes fester and grow into a much larger issue as a whole that can consume a number of people or an entire forum in drama much larger than the original trigger ever needed.

[cuda2k]

Didn't see Siu's post as I was working on my lengthy number of replies in one post. I agree 100% with her. If anyone here has any questions regarding harassment, trolling or other issues, please PM either myself or Siu. I'm not sure who Allez Oops had PM'ed in her request (Post #35), but hopefully the posts in this thread since has cleared up any questions.

[Red Rider]

Interesting perspective, b-duck. Thanks.

My impression of the other regional subforums on BikeFo is that they actually tend to be more civil and less pie-fight prone than SoCal. But that is admittedly based on casual, intermittent scanning of those forums' content as an outside observer, so I could very well be missing conflict that you've seen in those forums.

I've been a member since Jan. '07 and NorCal has not seen the likes of what went on here recently. Neither have the tandem, women's or 50+ forum. Not saying that there hasn't been conflict and disagreement, just not the baiting, antagonizing or name-calling that we saw here.

On topic: I had two spectacular crashes last year. Our tandem was doored in April, and we crashed while attempting a hairy tight-turning descent in August. Ouch.