Pacific Northwest - Some Questions About Seattle

So, I've been kicking around the idea of moving from Chicago to Seattle sometime in the semi-near future and could use some input from people that actually live there.

1) My first question is obviously going to be: What's the riding like? Is it a bike-friendly city? What kind of provisions do they have for cyclists, i.e. abundant bike racks, racks on buses etc.?

2) How's the public transportation? Subway/train system? Bus routes? Are they reliable? What are the prices like? A lot of people in Chicago complain about the public transportation system here, but really, it's not that bad. Hopefully the budget crisis gets resolved soon, but that's an entirely different topic.

3) Neighborhoods: I'm looking for affordable and in a reasonably safe area. The neighborhood I'm in now has plenty of cool local shops to go to and a bunch of cool bars to hang out at. You can stay out late here, but it's actually quiet at night. In contrast, the neighborhood I moved from, near Wrigley Field, was pretty much party-town 24/7. I'm definitely not looking for more of that. So, what are some names of neighborhoods and/or streets that I should be looking at? By the way, I'd be looking for apartments, not houses.

4) Jobs: I'm a bartender. How's the bar "scene"? Pretty healthy?

5) Advice: Anything I need to know about Seattle in general?

Thanks in advance to anyone that has any input on this!

PS- Pics would be cool, too!

What neighborhood do you live in now? I used to live in Chicago, that might help me compare. You're no longer in Wrigleyville, right?

I live in the Ballard neighborhood. I think it's pretty much exactly what you're looking for. Quiet, but good restaurants and bars/clubs and less than 3 miles from downtown. Stay away from Capitol Hill and the University District if you want to avoid party-ville. Lower Queen Anne is also nice except during games/events at Key Arena.

There's no shortage of bars and clubs here, although with the economy poised to take a dump things may slow down a little.

Public transportation is ok but not great. Bus fares just got hiked AGAIN. It's now $1.75 during peak hours. There are racks on buses but you can't put bikes on or take them off in the heart of downtown. Buses also don't run very late which is something to consider if you're planning to bartend and take the bus home. The light rail is still a long way from finished, but it's going to serve the outlying areas.

As for general advice, make sure you live and work on the same side of Lake Washington. Otherwise you are in for a crappy commute regardless of your choice of transportation.

As requested, some pics

Alexander Calder's "Eagle" at the new waterfront sculpture park
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/1431763128_51e2022fa6.jpg
More condos coming soon. Just what this town needs.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/448043616_8074024f51.jpg
Here's the skyline from Melrose Ave. (Capitol Hill)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/426309806_dc95890596.jpg
Here's a shot from Bainbridge Island I took while on the Chilly Hilly ride.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2290089945_2215268be3.jpg

There's a thread in Foo that asks similar questions. It's fairly lengthy, talking mostly about housing costs.

No subway. A trolley ( the South Lake Union Trolley). Light rail from Seattle to airport in 2009. Buses.


Bike-friendly is all relative. Compared to Chicago, probably. We can ride year-around, unless there's ice on the roads---in which case you want to stay home because most people in Seattle think they are immune to the laws of physics and don't need friction.


Bars. Yes. In neighborhoods, not just downtown.

MadCapsule,

I lived in Chicago for 7 years and loved it. I've lived in the Seattle area for almost 7 years and love it...a bit more.

Major differences?

1. Seattle is smaller. Compared with Chicago, it feels like a medium-sized city. It's just smaller. In some professions/jobs, you might feel that Seattle is less "big league" than Chicago....in other jobs (say, software development) you might feel the opposite.

2. Traffic in Seattle is much, much less intense than Chicago. (People in Seattle complain constantly about the traffic..but, see number 1).

3. There is no winter to speak of. When it's snowing in Chicago, it's raining in Seattle. I have a closet of "Chicago winter wear" I haven't touched since we moved here; it's just too heavy for Seattle. We did have to acquire a lot more lightweight outdoor wear.

4. Seattle is hillier, making for much more interesting riding on the bike.

5. The outdoors are much, much closer than in Chicago. Sea kayaking, hiking, skiing, snowshoeing, backpacking, fishing -- much more to do within a day's drive of Seattle than Chicago.

6. Restaurant portions in Seattle are much, much smaller. So are the people.

7. The surrounding states are more interesting. Instead of being surrounded by Wisconsin, Iowa, and Indiana, we're surrounded by British Columbia, Oregon and Idaho....

8. Fewer bugs.

Most of Capitol Hill is party-ville like marqueemoon said, and even though there are some truly nice residential areas, it's mostly houses. I like Sandpoint/Laurelhurst, especially if you can find a place near Washington Lake, and the Burke-Gillman trail. Lower Queen Anne, and also around Dexter Ave and Westlake Ave is a cool neighborhood. I also vote for Ballard that people mentioned. I don't know how bike-friendly it is, though. Stay clear of University Village and South Seattle.

I've heard people complain about the transportation system here too, but so far it's served me well. I take the bus primarily. Bars in Seattle close by 2 am, and the major bus lines (but definitely not all) run till 2:45-3 am. I don't know how long it takes to close up shop, so that's something else to consider.

There are plenty of folks who bike commute around here. I was spoiled, however, living in Portland for awhile, and Seattle doesn't seem so bike friendly to me. It's a fun city, though, as laid back as you like. Plenty of things to do indoors and outdoors.

I have no idea if this helps at all. Good luck!

I don't know why these pics are so small.

This is taken from Capitol Hill, facing West. I don't know if you can see it, but it's quite steep.
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7333/img01em4.jpg

Eastern face of Queen Anne, as seen from across Lake Union.
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7088/lakeunion02vn6.jpg

Pretty much as snowy as it gets
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1092/img0145gw2.jpg

My pitifull photography skills are butchering the panorama, but Seattle truly has some amazing views; there's water and mountains everywhere.

This blog has a fair number of Seattle bike events and biking photos, like these...from a big ride 8 days ago...


http://www.bikingbis.com/blog/_archives/2008/2/24/3543464.html

What neighborhood do you live in now? I used to live in Chicago, that might help me compare. You're no longer in Wrigleyville, right?


That's correct; I'm not in Wrigleywille anymore (thank goodness!). I live in Lincoln Square now. It's a really cool neighborhood, as far as I'm concerned.

So, it sounds like Ballard is a place to check out, huh?

Hmmm. . . lots of hills, you say? There really aren't any hills worth mentioning in Chicago. None that I've come across, at least. That'll take some getting used to, but a change of atmosphere is my main purpose for wanting to move to Seattle anyway!

Thanks to everyone for the great advice and the cool pics. Here's hoping that I'll be calling myself a resident of Seattle in the not-too-distant future! I'll check out the other thread mentioned, as well.

Thanks again!

Capitol Hill ain't bad at all - it's the Pike/Pine corridor that's got all partying happening. And those kids are just a bunch of rocker-wannabees doing cocaine in the bathrooms anyway.. Not my scene, but better than the "frat/yuppie" scene in Belltown or Pioneer Square if you ask me.

Bars to check out on Capitol Hill include Linda's, The Cha Cha, The Comet, The War Room, and The Summit. Of course there are decent bars all over (the Sunset in Ballard is OK), but if you want to work at a "cool" bar then it will most likely be downtown or on The (Capitol) Hill. Also from Capitol Hill you can actually walk to downtown! (Pike Place Mkt, Space Needle, etc). Not really an option to walk from Ballard, The U, or Queen Anne.

The U-dist is full of either spoiled youngsters, unfortunate street kids, and grad students trying to hang on to their youth and date the freshmen. I pretty much stay away from the U-dist, unless I'm just riding through it. I don't want anything to do with college now that I'm done with it!

Ballard is too far away, although I've visited the fishermen & nordic folks there a few times. Not a whole lot going on there besides shopping on Market Street it seems, although it has nice views & quiet streets.

Whatever you do, just don't live in Bellevue, Kirkland, or Redmond (aka "the eastside") - that's the land of the swerving SUV and the yuppies that love them. Having said that, riding through the eastside can be nice on the back-roads.

And yes, get ready for some hills!

Whatever you do, just don't live in Bellevue, Kirkland, or Redmond (aka "the eastside") - that's the land of the swerving SUV and the yuppies that love them. Having said that, riding through the eastside can be nice on the back-roads.

And yes, get ready for some hills!

Hey! Redmond isn't a bad place to ride. I moved from Capitol Hill to Redmond two years ago because we got tired of listening to meth-heads yelling at the open windows of our aparment building, asking someone to open the gate because "I'm pretty sure this is where my friend said he lives!"
I've had fewer problems with riding here on the eastside than I did downtown, and I never would have left my bike locked up outside anyplace in Cap. Hill or downtown. Downtown Bellevue is where I've encountered the worst problems on the eastside, and that's mostly due to constantly changing merge patterns in traffic due to the construction.
My daily commute puts me through the center of Woodinville and Redmond, to the top of Redmond Ridge. Even on Novelty Hill or Woodinville-Duvall Rd, I don't have any problems with crazy swerving drivers.

I wouldn't live on the eastside if you're looking to work in the bar scene though. Everything over here dies after 7pm, and there isn't really anything I'd call a good bar (except for Forecaster's, at the Red Hook Brewery.) Now if you're interested in picking up an attitude and being a snobby wine steward, theres' plenty of eastside jobs for ya.

My impressions as someone who lives in West Seattle, far different from Ballard/Capitol Hill. But nicer (! in my opinion).
What's the riding like?
Hilly, depending on where you live. My ride into work (I live 8 miles from downtown, at the more southern end of West Seattle) is mostly downhill, ride home mostly uphill. I ride in riding gear due to this factor. I ride year round, and you just get used to the wet weather. Riding on the southside of town is trickier as we have far fewer, often none whatsover, MUP or bike lanes. But it's better than getting on a bus or into a car. I used to mountain bike as well, and it's fantasic and close, like all outdoor sports. If you are active, this is a fantastic place to live.

How's the public transportation?
Subway (ha!), train (ha!), bus - ok. West Seattle is not on the slate to have any train system in the next 5 years at least, and which we residents complain consistently about. We do have a good bus system during the day, but after about 7:00 pm and on weekends it's almost impossible. But, I hardly ever leave West Seattle (restaurants, bars, parks, the beach, good pubs, nice people, still one of the cheaper places to live and is still not build up like Ballard is - YET - it's coming soon though) so it only bothers me when I have to get to work. And the Viaduct issue (a major roadway link to downtown/northend) will be coming up soon, which will cause gridlock throughout the city, will not effect you so much if you ride a bike...at least I'm hoping. It's faster for me to ride my bike to work than take the bus, at least on the way home. West Seattle is more of a laid back area. It's not a bar/party scene and it's quiet at night. I can ride a bike or walk virtually anywhere in West Seattle easily.

For more information: www.westseattleblog.com

The great thing about Seattle is that it's only three hours from Portland! :D

Hey! Redmond isn't a bad place to ride. I moved from Capitol Hill to Redmond two years ago because we got tired of listening to meth-heads yelling at the open windows of our aparment building, asking someone to open the gate because "I'm pretty sure this is where my friend said he lives!"

no meth heads in redmond yet? you just wait! =]

i didn't mean to infer that the eastside is totally horrible, but cycling thru bellevue has skewed me a bit in that sense. the amount of bike lanes on the eastside probaby equals the amount on capitol hill it seems (meaning they're lacking out east).

but like i said there's some great back-country roads on the eastside (tolt hill rd, ames lake, newport way, hwy 900) that make cycling much more enjoyable than in the city.

lucky enough for those of us in the city, it only takes an hour or two to get out to said country roads! nothing like starting your ride in a metropolis and then seeing horses in a field just an hour later. (when i ride down to renton and then take hwy 900 up to issaquah)

considering the OP's intended profession, i think Capitol Hill/Downtown is the place to be, unless you want to do a long commute to work.

The great thing about Seattle is that it's only three hours from Portland! :D

wow, you must be one hell of a rider to do the STP in 3 hours!

it took me about 4-5 times that to get there..

no meth heads in redmond yet? you just wait! =]

Not any that I've noticed. The eastside addict plague is more 'socially acceptable'. Soccer moms whacked out on prescription painkillers and/or mood stabilizers, and Arbor Mist. :p

Biking in Seattle (well, in Fremont, actually): http://www.light7.com/solstice2007/

And a little about the hills: http://cascade.org/Community/links/hills.html

let me just say that ballard sucks, its cut off from the rest of the city, suruonded by water on three sides and the 4th is large hill. Public transportation system is alright if its on time, and it rains non stop which can making biking alittle bit miserable, Other than that id say Seattle is pretty good city to call home.

let me just say that ballard sucks, its cut off from the rest of the city, suruonded by water on three sides and the 4th is large hill.


Do you have any recommendations, then?

Ballard is "cut off from the rest of the city"? :rolleyes:

As for the constant rain, actual weather statistics don't support that, but yes it was a pretty soggy one today.

As for bars on Capitol Hill, they might be fun to visit but hipsters don't tip for ****.

Ballard is "cut off from the rest of the city"? :rolleyes:

As for the constant rain, actual weather statistics don't support that, but yes it was a pretty soggy one today.

As for bars on Capitol Hill, they might be fun to visit but hipsters don't tip for ****.

It is awkward as all heck to get to Ballard. Once the viaduct goes down, it will be even worse.

Do you have any recommendations, then?

I think most of the usual suspects are mentioned in this thread:

- Ballard
- Fremont
- Capitol Hill
- U-District
- West Seattle

Each has pluses/minuses.

Another area not mentioned above is Columbia City, near Seward Park, near the shore of Lake Washington.

Belltown, on edge of downtown, if you can afford the rents.

A couple of neighborhoods north of Fremont are places like Phinney Ridge and Green Lake. A little further out, but not that far out.

If you branch out from Capitol Hill it turns into an area called the Central District, with some apartment housing not far from Seattle University. Keep going north and you get to to Madison Valley.

Seattle is not nearly as large as Chicago. These neighborhoods are not that far apart. You could do a thorough bike tour of all of them in a day, easy.

Ballard is "cut off from the rest of the city"? :rolleyes:

As for the constant rain, actual weather statistics don't support that, but yes it was a pretty soggy one today.

As for bars on Capitol Hill, they might be fun to visit but hipsters don't tip for ****.

First I do like Ballard. But we used to have a saying when I hung out there. "you can't get there from here" :D

Ballard and West Seattle are sort of out of the flow. But I think that is one of the reasons that both those areas are fun to live in. The independent spirit of their community.

Agreed - there's no freeway cutting through Ballard or West Seattle.
Burien is another option - up and coming. There's a nice little downtown area developing w/lots of people in their 30s moving there (we have friends who bought a house there recently) and we frequent Burien, well, frequently. It is a ways from Seattle though, if you want to be close to downtown...

5. The outdoors are much, much closer than in Chicago. Sea kayaking, hiking, skiing, snowshoeing, backpacking, fishing -- much more to do within a day's drive of Seattle than Chicago.Cut your migration 300 miles short and you can settle in Spokane. Every one of these activities (except it will be a river kayak rather than the seagoing kind) and a few more can be had inside the city limits - - with even more and better the farther you get from town.

Just saying . . . .

I think most of the usual suspects are mentioned in this thread:

- Ballard
- Fremont
- Capitol Hill
- U-District
- West Seattle

Each has pluses/minuses.

Another area not mentioned above is Columbia City, near Seward Park, near the shore of Lake Washington.

Belltown, on edge of downtown, if you can afford the rents. Probably not.

A couple of neighborhoods north of Fremont are places like Phinney Ridge and Green Lake. A little further out, but not that far out.

If you branch out from Capitol Hill it turns into an area called the Central District, with some apartment housing not far from Seattle University. Keep going north and you get to to Madison Valley.

Seattle is not nearly as large as Chicago. These neighborhoods are not that far apart. You could do a thorough bike tour of all of them in a day, easy. Yeah, after I get used to the hills, maybe. Some of those might as well be like trying to ride up the side of the Sears Tower for me!


Thanks, everyone!

My impressions as someone who lives in West Seattle, far different from Ballard/Capitol Hill. But nicer (! in my opinion).
What's the riding like?
Hilly, depending on where you live. My ride into work (I live 8 miles from downtown, at the more southern end of West Seattle) is mostly downhill, ride home mostly uphill. I ride in riding gear due to this factor. I ride year round, and you just get used to the wet weather. Riding on the southside of town is trickier as we have far fewer, often none whatsover, MUP or bike lanes. But it's better than getting on a bus or into a car. I used to mountain bike as well, and it's fantasic and close, like all outdoor sports. If you are active, this is a fantastic place to live...

Hi Catgrrl,

I've been considering West Seattle as one place to move out to eventually, but the riding conditions is what worries me. If you don't mind sharing, how do you get to downtown safely, and hopefully without inhaling a whole lotta exhaust?

Thanks a bunch

Got another quick question for BengeBoy. Having lived in Chicago, I'm hoping you'll recognize the importance of this one: How's the pizza?

Got another quick question for BengeBoy. Having lived in Chicago, I'm hoping you'll recognize the importance of this one: How's the pizza?

Having spent some time out there the pizza scene out here is mediocre with a couple of bright spots. There is Delfinos at University Village for Chicago Style, never ate there but a co worker from Chicago recommends it. And New York Pizza in Maple leaf for you New Yorkers.

Got another quick question for BengeBoy. Having lived in Chicago, I'm hoping you'll recognize the importance of this one: How's the pizza?

To be honest - though I'm a huge fan of Seattle -- I was hoping you wouldn't ask.


Next question?

Hi Catgrrl,

I've been considering West Seattle as one place to move out to eventually, but the riding conditions is what worries me. If you don't mind sharing, how do you get to downtown safely, and hopefully without inhaling a whole lotta exhaust?

Thanks a bunch


Sorry about the wait! West Seattle is really fun. But there's lots and lots of new condos/apartment buildings that have been approved in the Alaska/Fauntleroy core in the past 30 days. That will change the character of the Alaska Junction. I have no intention of moving however. (The Morgan Junction is the quieter southern portion of West Seattle and Lincoln Park is close - plus the Beverige Place Pub!)

Specifically your very good question. As you well know, there is a dearth of marked bike routes to/from WS. This is supposed to 'improve' soon with the "Bicycle Master Plan" but in all truth, it will consist primarily of signage marking the 'preferred bike routes.' How do I get around safely? It's really not too hard. Most people in WS are very good about bikes.
- Do not travel 35th Ave SW, period. I used to ride this road but stopped about 2 years ago. Way too fast, way too dangerous.
- Fauntleroy is pretty good in the mornings. I do not ride it in the afternoons, and you'll see only a few bicyclists do so. I usually ride the east sidewalk (contrary to many safety instructions) but I'd rather be going slower and be able to stop for a ped (most common occurance b/c there's few streets that intersect this side of the road) than be going faster and have a sideswipe from a vehicle. I've ridden both the street and the sidewalk so this is just my experience. Plus, I can watch kids play softball/soccer for a bit at the park on nice days too.
- There's big hills over here. It's easy to get downtown, it's all downhill. Heading home is all uphill so you get your hill legs in good shape. Both Avalon and Admiral are busy and highly trafficked but both fairly wide so I don't really feel unsafe on either one. You can also use the Alki route but it takes much longer and is impossible in good weather with the peds and absolutely horrible bike-like pedal cars manned by children. It's awesome in the mornings!
- I do not run stoplights or stopsigns. I use my voice and my bell and my handsignals. Watch out for uncontrolled intersections, the most dangerous places in WS.
- Lower bridge is excellent. A nice wide path, separated from the street, and a fantastic view.
- The east side of the bridge is a mess. Use the bike path that turns under the bridge and around. There's 3-4 dangerous crossings here. The ped signal light takes FOREVER to work so use the other crossings. There's signage that is dirty and unreadable, a sign laying on the sidewalk (for months - it's been reported to the city), the crosswalk paint is worn off the street, the pavement is abysmal, and those cars/trucks/18-wheelers will NOT yield to you. Do not take risks here. Stick to the sidewalk/bike path (it's unmarked really) that follows Spokane St on the north side, then take it to Marginal/Alaska.
- It's difficult sometimes to get across to the marked bike lane (only on the east side of the street) but I generally ride to the light and cross w/the signal. It's flat here and it's easy. Marginal/Alaska can be intimidating w/the 18-wheelers, but they are usually the least of your problems. Autos speed here and watch out for the Port traffic and baseball traffic (on the other hand this traffic slows down everyone else so it's also a good thing).
- Then you are downtown and just have to work your way uphill whereever you are going. You can either stay on Alaska or use the ped/bike lane under the viaduct. Be careful during tourist season no matter what.
- I take the bus sometimes if it's been raining alot and the roads have lots of standing water (hiding potholes& grates on the west side of Marginal/Alaska in the southbound lanes).
- Even with all of this craziness, I rarely have a bad ride. It's faster than the bus by far on game days and most other days! :) And you'll get a great workout! I see more and more cyclists out there and they are more than willing to help if you have a problem. I can get anywhere in WS with my bike, easily.

OH - and with the LOOMING viaduct closure? That will really mess up everyone's commute. Big Time. It'll be easier on bicycles, but I fear that we will be inhaling lots of exhaust as Marginal/Alaska will likely be closed to all traffic. We'll be pushed to 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Ave, etc. to mix in w/a bunch of cars who will really be aggro that bikes are passing them left and right.:eek:

Alright, let me start by admitting it was alittle harsh of me to say Ballard sucks, I live here while most of friends live other places and because Ballard is. . .Ballard i end up going to them which leaves me constantly loathing my commute to anywhere. My favorite niegborhoods are Uniiversity District, Captiol Hill and the Central District. Captiol Hill and the Central District are both very close to downtown, Cap. Hill is very lively, lots of restraunts and bars and retail while the Central District is just over Cap. Hill and is a quiter residential area with not much retail but the necessaties.

To be honest - though I'm a huge fan of Seattle -- I was hoping you wouldn't ask.


Next question?


That bad, huh?

Here's another one: I'm currently riding a Gary Fisher Cronus that has one chain ring and a 9-speed cassette with - I think - 36 through 11-tooth gears. Will that be enough speeds to get me up those hills?

That bad, huh?

Here's another one: I'm currently riding a Gary Fisher Cronus that has one chain ring and a 9-speed cassette with - I think - 36 through 11-tooth gears. Will that be enough speeds to get me up those hills?

Pizza's not bad, just not Chicago.

As for gearing -- you ought to be fine. It's hilly, but lots of the commuting routes avoid the worst....some steady pulls up some long hills, etc. Of course, depends on where you live, where you're going, etc.

Ah, I see. Chicago pizza is, well, there's nothing else like it. And I'm a little dubious of anyone trying to copy it outside of Chicago. Hell, the renowned Pizzeria Uno expanded to the 'burbs around here and it's not nearly the same.

Oh, well.