Road Cycling - Airborne Road Ti?

My head is spinning from all the research I've done recently on road bikes :roflmao: I'm sold on Ti frames and was recently given the name of another Ti manufacturer called AIRBORNE. I must say I'm very impressed!! I'll be trying out the Zeppelin and Valkyrie with Ultegra components this weekend.

Any comments?

Thanks,
Clutch

I have never been on one myself but researched them a few years ago. I raced with a guy who had one and loved the bike. I never heard anything bad about them.

Hi,
I have the touring/cyclocross model which is the Carpe Diem and i rode another one over a year ago but I forget which. They are nice bikes. But it might help if you thought of this as a marriage; and that you're telling us you gotta have a blonde. Nothing wrong with that, but you haven't dated any brunettes, redheads, or dark haired girls yet:) You want a combination of good fit, and great performance, and smooth riding. Last bike I tried that did that was steel. You might perfection manana, and you might find it in a steel or carbon bike. But you'll know it when the pieces all fall together.

I also have the CX Carpe Diem. (Ultegra, Alpha Q fork). I've been riding it the last 2 1/2 seasons and love it. It's the perfect bike for me. Smooth, stiff, light, strong..... I wanted it all and feel like I've gotten it. Airborne's warrenty is tuff to beat also.

For the quality, I'd rather pay a few bucks more for a Litespeed.
You're right about getting a Ti bike though.

Cheers

Hey Grampy,
how do you like that Alpha Q fork? I have the Surly fork, nice ride, weighs a ton. Eventually I want a lighter fork on it.
If I don't find a better choice, I plan on getting a Gunnar fork, would be nearly a pound weight savings.

For the quality, I'd rather pay a few bucks more for a Litespeed.
You're right about getting a Ti bike though.

Cheers
Do you own an Airborne? Have problems with it? Talk to the people at Airborne if you do, they will stand behind their bikes. Their bikes are top quality in my mind.

Hey Grampy,
how do you like that Alpha Q fork? I have the Surly fork, nice ride, weighs a ton. Eventually I want a lighter fork on it.
If I don't find a better choice, I plan on getting a Gunnar fork, would be nearly a pound weight savings.I went from a steel fork to the Alpha Q CX (Ti steerer). Love it! I was amazed at how much vibration it soaks up. Bike felt a ton lighter/more nimble. Couldn't be happier. :D

Hi,
sounds great, wish it wasn't twice as expensive as the Gunnar fork. Found an all Ti cyclocross fork on the net a couple days ago. Made in Russia, wonder if it's any good.

A friend of mine, who typically has good judgement, rides an Airborne. He is very happy with it. It seems to be a quality bicycle.

Hi,
sounds great, wish it wasn't twice as expensive as the Gunnar fork. Found an all Ti cyclocross fork on the net a couple days ago. Made in Russia, wonder if it's any good.
I chose the Alpha Q w/ Ti steerer for strength. I'm a clyde and firmly believe in the words of Keith Bontrager,"Strong, light, cheap, pick two". I've never been dissapointed following that advice. :D

About the only thing I didn't/don't like about Airborne was their policy towards "customer" reviews. For the longest time customers who wrote a good review were getting free products (accesories like water bottles, etc). So when you go look at RBR all you see is these 2 page long glowing reviews with hardly anything negative said about them.

However, on the other hand I can understand the motive behind that, they started as an "internet" only bike manufacture and what better way to spread a lot of word of mouth advertising, and it worked. They haven't been on the scene that long and lots of people know about them. Past all that they have a great warranty and truly stand behind their product.

Past that I'd say they are a good bike to own, you won't be getting much (if anything) of an upgrade by going to a Litespeed other than a brand name on the bike.

Andrew

One of my Sat. AM riding partners has an Airborne. He says that the tubes are made in Tiawan (as are a lot of other manafacturer's tubes) and welded in a naval shipyard in mainland China. He has been riding his for a year and is satisfied with the bike. I would be concerned if there was problem that would have to be resolved under the warranty.

I found this discussion interesting, since I'm considering buying an Airborne Carpe Diem - touring set up. I've been doing quite a bit a research on Ti frames and I've found that Airborne seems to have the best value. Litespeed bikes are nice, but I agree with another post that it's not worth the extra money. Litespeed is only marginally better (arguably) than Airborne, and you won't just be spending a couple hundred bucks more for Litespeed, you'll be spending close to $1000. For instance, you can get an Airborne Carpe Diem with a nice touring component package for about $2500. The Litespeed Blue Ridge (their touring model) cost $3300. Both frames are comparable (the Blue Ridge isn't as compact, for better or worse) and the Blue Ridge components are Ultegra/touring mix. If you go to the Airborne website, and select a Carpe Diem frame w/ ultegra touring components, you'll see that both bikes are comparable, but again the Carpe Diem costs about $2500-2600, while the Blue Ridge costs $3300. So basically, with the Blue Ridge you're paying an extra $800 for the Litespeed moniker. Another nice advantage with airborne is you can configure the bike exactly as you'd like.

I'm going to be a heathen and pose a question: Is it really worth it to shell out $2500 + for bike, even if it is titanium? As I mentioned, I'm thinking about getting an Airborne Carpe Diem, but I'm having great difficulty trying to justify paying $2500 for a bicycle. For me, one of the most appealing aspects of cycling is that it's an effficient and affordable means of transportation. I know there are many expenses associated with autos (maintenance, insurance, parking, registration, etc.) that you don't have to worry about with bikes (and of course bikes are more environmentally responsible). But still, as much as I enjoy bicycling, part of me is saying, "you can get a decent used car for $2500!". When you're spending as much or almost as much on a bike as you would on a good used car, it just seems extravagant. There... I've said it, now please don't kill me! :)

About the only thing I didn't/don't like about Airborne was their policy towards "customer" reviews. For the longest time customers who wrote a good review were getting free products (accesories like water bottles, etc). So when you go look at RBR all you see is these 2 page long glowing reviews with hardly anything negative said about them.


Sorry, but they told me I would get a couple of water bottles if and when I put A review up. They never told me it had to be positive. They did however stop the practice...... to many people like you thought the reviews were bought and paid for. I can't remember if I put up a review or not but I never sent in for my water bottles. I already have plenty.:)

I'm going to be a heathen and pose a question: Is it really worth it to shell out $2500 + for bike, even if it is titanium? As I mentioned, I'm thinking about getting an Airborne Carpe Diem, but I'm having great difficulty trying to justify paying $2500 for a bicycle. For me, one of the most appealing aspects of cycling is that's it's an effficient and affordable means of transportation. I know there are many expenses associated with autos (maintenance, insurance, parking, registration, etc.) that you don't have to worry about with bikes (and of course bikes are more environmentally responsible). But still, as much as I enjoy bicycling, part of me is saying, "you can get a decent used car for $2500!". When your spending as much or almost as much on a bike as you would on a good used car, it just seems extravagant. There... I've said it, now please don't kill me! :)
Heh,heh,heh, I was right where you are about 3 years ago..... I can't tell you how to spend your money(obviously). All I can tell you is I have absolutely no regrets. Airborne has one of the best warranties in the business. Their service after the sale was flawless, and I bielieve they still have a 10 day, no hassle return policy if you don't like it. They will also swap out stems if you decide the one you got needs to be changed after trying it.
They even have a "crash" warranty. If you crash the bike, and ruin the frame (like a car runs over it) for $400 bucks (I think that is the price) they will replace the frame. (I don't think Lightspeed will do that)

It's real easy to criticize something and sound like you really know what it's bad points are. But here is a true statement, I have absolutely no regrets on the three grand I spent on this bike, and would do it again if something happened to it. (And nobody is giving me free waterbottles to say that! :D )

About the only thing I didn't/don't like about Airborne was their policy towards "customer" reviews. For the longest time customers who wrote a good review were getting free products (accesories like water bottles, etc). So when you go look at RBR all you see is these 2 page long glowing reviews with hardly anything negative said about them.


This is incorrect.

While they did offer free water bottles to owners who posted reviews, the reviewers were certainly not bound to express anything but their honest opinions.

That you'll have trouble finding a negative review of an Airborne (from before, during, or after the water bottle promotion) is simply a reflection of how their owners feel.

Oh, and it wasn't "the longest time." It was about three months back in 2001. Owners had to prove their ownership via their frame's serial number, and they got three plastic water bottles. You're making a lot more of it than it really was.

RichC

Hi Alan,
In some ways I love my Carpe Diem. It is a very good bike, I've put a thousand miles on it so far this year. That's double what I did last year. But I have some issues with it. But first, waht sort of touring do you have in mind? Are you going on supported vacations where you will be carrying little or nothing, credit card touring, or full blown bring a tent and a sleeping bag touring? It makes a difference. The Carpe Diem is a lite tourer.
I am not a fan (now that I have one) of touring/cyclocross bikes. I don't like the high bottom bracket, the twitchy front end, and I am constantly annoyed by my heels brushing against my mid-sized panniers. My good sized panniers I can't use, which is another annoyance. I used to
bring home groceries in those, not enough room for work clothes and groceries in my small ones. Having said all that, it's an amazing bike. The short stays that limit pannier used also give it quick acceleration. It's light, nimble and absorbs just enough shock that you can do a long day and not get the crap beat out of you. I worry about it getting stolen. I am not entirely pleased with their selection of forks. In steel the Gunnar would do nicely ( I may put one on my bike this winter). I don't know enough about carbon to talk about it; but there are other choices out there. The fork Grampy has looks cool.
Now, the money thing. You can get a great frame for less $$$. See if you can't find a Gunnar Sport to try. The Sport has
a low bottom bracket (this is really a very good thing), long stays (will fit any pannier) incredible comfort and the stability you want in a touring bike. At the same time the frame is very light, responsive, I love it. http://www.gunnarbikes.com/data/mainframe.htm
That is as much a teaser as it anything else. Here is another cool bike I wouldn't mind adding to my stable... http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/habanero.html You could save a few bucks by getting a 105 group instead of Ultegra. Don't get an aluminum fork. I am told there are good ones; the couple I tried were like jackhammers. This bike is one of the smoothest riding bikes you will ever see. It almost floats over the road. The Sport has a more upright traditional touring position. The Habanero has the modern road position, but not as much as a racer. I had to drive 100 miles to try that Habanero. You will need to go try a few, and they may be a ways down the road. I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention the trek 520, it's the cheapest genuine touring bike I know of, it's about a grand. I would spend a few bucks and trade up some of the components, but you can do a search of the archives here and find a bunch of happy 520 owners. They are kinda slow. Make sure you take a look at Bruce Gordon's website. He makes a nice tourer.

I'm going to be a heathen and pose a question: Is it really worth it to shell out $2500 + for bike, even if it is titanium? As I mentioned, I'm thinking about getting an Airborne Carpe Diem, but I'm having great difficulty trying to justify paying $2500 for a bicycle. For me, one of the most appealing aspects of cycling is that's it's an effficient and affordable means of transportation. I know there are many expenses associated with autos (maintenance, insurance, parking, registration, etc.) that you don't have to worry about with bikes (and of course bikes are more environmentally responsible). But still, as much as I enjoy bicycling, part of me is saying, "you can get a decent used car for $2500!". When your spending as much or almost as much on a bike as you would on a good used car, it just seems extravagant. There... I've said it, now please don't kill me! :)

It's a legitimate question. When I bought my Carpe Diem, it came in just over $2000 a little over three years ago. When I chose it, I was looking for something that would last indefinitely and involve no meaningful compromises. It wasn't a replacement for my Novara, but it would become my primary ride in fair weather for anything but loaded touring.

I analyzed it this way: Airborne wasn't charging any more for the parts and assembly than anybody else was. I wanted the Ultegra/XTR combo, the touring wheels, the teflon cables, etc., anyway. The only real difference between the Airborne and other non-custom bikes I might consider was the frame price, which at the time was only $700. I wasn't going to find anything to compete with the Airborne, spec-for-spec, even in steel, for less than about $1500.

So it wasn't a hard choice, and I've had no cause to regret it. The bike has been everything I hoped it would be, and it still gets more miles than any of my other bikes.

The frame is a few hundred dollars more now, and the market has changed somewhat in the last three years. Knowing what I know now I'd pay the additional cost without batting an eye, but I admit that if I was coming to the decision cold I might make a different choice. There are more 'cross/touring frames on the market now, for one thing. The same Carpe Diem would cost $2500 today, while the competition could still deliver for $1500.

So that's what I have to say about a $2500 vs a $1500 bike. But what about the question of buying "expensive" bikes at all?

For me, it's easy. I spend 10 hours a week on bikes in an average week. Instead of paying for gas and parking, instead of polluting the world and getting fat, I ride. The money I save pays for my bikes many times over, and the time I spend riding justifies riding the nicest bike I care to buy.

With all the things people waste money on and then rarely even use, spending a couple thousand bucks on a fine machine that can help save the world as well as your own life seems like a bargain to me.

RichC

So that's what I have to say about a $2500 vs a $1500 bike. But what about the question of buying "expensive" bikes at all?

For me, it's easy. I spend 10 hours a week on bikes in an average week. Instead of paying for gas and parking, instead of polluting the world and getting fat, I ride. The money I save pays for my bikes many times over, and the time I spend riding justifies riding the nicest bike I care to buy.

With all the things people waste money on and then rarely even use, spending a couple thousand bucks on a fine machine that can help save the world as well as your own life seems like a bargain to me.

RichC

Rich,

You could not have put it more clearly and succinctly. The first thing one needs to invest in is one's health. Without that, you won't live to see your retirement. If you also save some cash and the planet in the process, than that is a fortunate result too. The emotional satisfaction and peace of mind I feel when I ride is priceless as well.

My two cents,
Mikey

This is incorrect.

While they did offer free water bottles to owners who posted reviews, the reviewers were certainly not bound to express anything but their honest opinions.

That you'll have trouble finding a negative review of an Airborne (from before, during, or after the water bottle promotion) is simply a reflection of how their owners feel.

Oh, and it wasn't "the longest time." It was about three months back in 2001. Owners had to prove their ownership via their frame's serial number, and they got three plastic water bottles. You're making a lot more of it than it really was.

and


Sorry, but they told me I would get a couple of water bottles if and when I put A review up. They never told me it had to be positive. They did however stop the practice...... to many people like you thought the reviews were bought and paid for. I can't remember if I put up a review or not but I never sent in for my water bottles.

I'm sorry, I still don't think it's an honest way to get reviews. You've tainted what people are going to say by offering something for free. Would you trust magazine reviews knowing the reviewer got something for free from the company he was reviewing products on?

Now as I said, and as you pointed out, they stopped that practice and the reviews are still great. Which I didn't doubt in the first place, the bike is still a great product for a good value.

Andrew

I don't have any experience with Airborne bikes. They may be very good, and the company's website is top notch. However, I did see one Airborne bike up-close, and I was less than impressed with the welding. Also, I'd gladly pay several hundred $ more for US built bike, so I chose a Litespeed. If you have trouble justifying 2500$ on a Ti bike, then maybe you shouldn't. You can always find much cheaper Aluminum frames or even less expensive carbon ones.

Cheers

Karesz3,
welding is an art; and there isn't a Litepseed owner in a thousand who has a real understanding of just how good those welders are. They are magicians. But weld failure
is not common and the majority of bike companies will replace a defective frame as fast as physically possible. As a big guy who has beat a number of bikes to death I can tell you I have complete confidence in Airborne's welds. They ain't pretty, but they are plenty strong. The next item is fairly esoteric. Litepseed has built a reputation quickly as one of the best companies. They did that without a shred of preferential treatment. In fact, preferential treatment can remove the need to compete; eventually weakening a company. It just doesn't work. A quick check of my posts will tell you I tell people to try the Tuscany more than all other reccomendations combined. It's a great bike. But there are hundreds of great bikes out there. and some of them are Airbornes. I just don't want to type everything I know about Airborne 50 million times. I know if they can afford the Litespeed they won't regret it. And if they can't, they will go looking for something similar.
So if a guy can't swing a $3K Litepseed, mebbe he can swing a $2K habanero or an Airborne. If they ask, I will tell them rather than getting a Ti bike with Cheap components; they would prob be happier with a steel frame sporting Ultegra. But implying one might as well jump down to "much cheaper Aluminum frames or even less expensive carbon ones." doesn't sound like good advice to me.

I recommend Airbourne as a good company and a fine frame, but I prefer my Litespeed. Whatever frame you decide on just make sure it has Campy components and it will be fine :) (I hope I opened a can of worms here)! My point is everyone has personal likes and dislikes, the only way to find what you like is to ride everything possible which you think you might like.

airborne or litespeed...2.5k might get you a used car, but a new bike...thats art in motion...remember this is going to be the porsche of cars. :p I have foregone buying many things to afford to buy a bike! Think about what else in your life you could spend the money on...then ask yourself if it is really worth it? Ok, pay the mortgage, put money aside for the kid's college fund, but do you really need that morning cup of coffee for 4 bucks? I'll be the first to say that bikes are way over priced these days, 5k on a bike is not that unusal. I think that bike companies have figured out that in the high end bike market, the people that buy them don't really bat an eye if it is 4k or 6k for a bike. At that price there is certainly no preformance difference. If you're going ride your bike, 2.5k is not that big a deal. I do agree that camy is the way to go. :p

Hi Alan,
In some ways I love my Carpe Diem. It is a very good bike, I've put a thousand miles on it so far this year. That's double what I did last year. But I have some issues with it. But first, waht sort of touring do you have in mind? Are you going on supported vacations where you will be carrying little or nothing, credit card touring, or full blown bring a tent and a sleeping bag touring? It makes a difference. The Carpe Diem is a lite tourer.
I am not a fan (now that I have one) of touring/cyclocross bikes. I don't like the high bottom bracket, the twitchy front end, and I am constantly annoyed by my heels brushing against my mid-sized panniers. My good sized panniers I can't use, which is another annoyance. I used to
bring home groceries in those, not enough room for work clothes and groceries in my small ones. Having said all that, it's an amazing bike. The short stays that limit pannier used also give it quick acceleration. It's light, nimble and absorbs just enough shock that you can do a long day and not get the crap beat out of you. I worry about it getting stolen. I am not entirely pleased with their selection of forks. In steel the Gunnar would do nicely ( I may put one on my bike this winter). I don't know enough about carbon to talk about it; but there are other choices out there. He makes a nice tourer.

You (and many other user's make some very good points. You said the Carpe Diem doesn't work well with larger panniers: Have you ever tried or considered using a trailer? I've been doing some research comparing the pros/cons of trailers vs panniers. I've only used panniers for light touring (I have a two year old Trek XO) with no problems. It seems mechanically, a trailer has some significant advantages. The most important advantage I've found is that with a trailer the weight isn't actually on your bike. This is much easier on the wheels and frame. Of course on rough terrain, the trailer is one more mechanical device that can fail. How do you think the Carpe Diem would work with a trailer?

You also bring up some good alternatives. From what I've read, the Bruce Gordon BLT is probably the best value in loaded touring bikes (the only rival in value is the Trek 520). I've checked his web site several times and like his no B.S. approach to cycling. The major problem with touring bikes is that they're pretty sluggish for day to day commuting. I'll be using the bike for daily commuting, light touring, and MAYBE loaded touring. I'd like to do some loaded touring, but don't know when I'll have time.

So for me, it's probably between the Carpe Diem and BLT, I just have to figure out what type of riding I'll be doing. Here's something else to consider with Airborne: If you buy a bike on line with last year's frame, they knock $500 off the frame. Yesterday I checked and I can get a Carpe Diem w/Ultegra touring components for about $2100 + $100 shipping=$2200. The BLT costs $1610 + freight and assembly. He doesn't list freight costs on the web site, but I imagine getting the BLT ride ready would run $1700-1800 with shipping and assembly. So, if you look at it this way, you get a nice loaded touring bike for $1750, or a Ti-frame multi-purpose bike for $400 more. When you think of it this way, the Carpe Diem seems like a better deal.

Brings me to my final issue: Theft possibility. I get really nice bike, it's a more likely to be a theft target. A couple years ago I had a nice full suspension mountain bike stolen, so I'm a little worried about this. I know that if you get a first rate lock (like the Kryptonite New York) and are careful about where you park, you can minimize the possibility. That said, no lock is full-proof (they used power tools on a U-lock to get my full sus bike) and if someone wants to steal something badly enough, they'll find a way. Thanks for all your help!
;) :beer:

Hi,
I don't know a thing about trailers. You could check the older posts here. My guess is it would work fine. Having done loaded touring, and credit card touring, both have advantages and disadvantges.
When I go for a multi-day ride; my total bike weight is about 40 pounds, maybe less. Throw on a tent, bag, food, stove, etc, etc, and you're adding at least another 20 pounds. That is not an insignificant load if you happen to be in the Adirondacks (which I was). OTOH, if you got ultra-lite gear, there are some great places to go that aren't really doable without a tent.
I am not familiar with the Gorodn bikes, the Carpe Diem is defintely not sluggish the way I have it set up (CXP33 rims with 28c tires, take a look at the Rivendell Ruffy Tuffy tire). More than anything else, the weight of the rims and tires are what slow you down. A really nice fork is the Gunnar Cross. http://www.schwabcycles.com/cgi/wc.dll?SCHWAB2~catalog~DETAIL~1309 Actually, the Gunnar Sport would be another nice alternative, very nice and lively bike suitable for lite touring. I bought the Carpe frame last fall. The wheels were my Xmas present; and I finished the bike with my tax refund. I picked up quite a few pieces on sale during the winter. Maine does not have a bad problem with theft. But when you have something that expensive, you worry.
Had mine a year, and so far, no problem.