Classic & Vintage - Colnago Superissimo - Standard Double to Compact?

I might purchase what looks to be a Colnago Superissimo from the mid to late 80s and possibly early 90s (it's hard to tell, but this is what I've been told). It's now equipped with Campy record 8 speed ergo shifters, but a mix of older campy derailers, breaks, and headset, along with a cinelli stem, mavic wheels with DA hubs. It' also got a Shimano crankset (Sante) [Insert boos, shouts, and hisses here].

I took this thing for ride last night and it fits me perfect and rides so amazingly well just as it is. The only problem for me is I want to make it a compact double as I can't quite make it up those hills here in San Fran.

So my question is:

Is it possible to change the 53-39 to a 50-34 compact and will it still be compatible with the 8 speed shifters (due to chain width issues)? Will I need to change the BB (will there be issues finding a compatible BB)?

For those that would offer the advice of changing the cassette, I will do that, but I don't think that will get me low enough gearing that I need by itself. For those that would say get fitter, hey, I'm on my way, but insurance in lower gearing is not a crime. ;)

Thanks in advance for all your help...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/2292910678_ef8196e7a4_b.jpg

my guess is a 39 or 38 will be the smallest that will fit. chainline issues will not be the problem if you switch to a compact crankset, but that front derailleur may very well be a showstopper, as it is brazed on. I used to race (before compact cranks) with a guy that used a mountain bike crank to build his own version of a compact. You could do that, if the derailleur can be mounted low enough to push the chain.

yeah, i misread that. There won't be chain width issues either, unless you score a ten-speed crankset.

Hey! Sante components are good working gear (except for the headset). I've never had a problem with the components and they look mighty sharp on the right bike.
Try a triple front braze on derailleur. It should give you the reach you need.

If you put on a narrower chain, won't be any kind of problems. A 9s chain will probably work with everything out there as well as your 8s hub.

38T is minimum for the 130 BCD of the Sante crank. A compact double will work, don't know about the braze on height. You could always measure it (BB center to the lowest point on the braze on fitting) and then compare it to some compact bike in a shop.

As it is the front derailleur can come down a bit.

looks very nice,
cdr

If you put on a narrower chain, won't be any kind of problems. A 9s chain will probably work with everything out there as well as your 8s hub.

38T is minimum for the 130 BCD of the Sante crank. A compact double will work, don't know about the braze on height. You could always measure it (BB center to the lowest point on the braze on fitting) and then compare it to some compact bike in a shop.

As it is the front derailleur can come down a bit.

looks very nice,
cdr

Can you explain a little about why the braze on height matters when trying to marry it with a compact double - is it b/c the large ring on the compact is actually smaller (than the 53-39) so the FD needs to come down to be even with large ring?

If you're sticking with 8-speed shifters (which is what I would do/have done), you compatibility issues are easier. I would suggest staying clear of 9/10 speed chains (probably too narrow to fit your cogs) and stick with 7/8 speed chains (already designed for your cog width and spacing). 8 speed chains are super available, so no problem.

There is no problem running compact doubles with 8 speed chains. None. Normal 6/7/8 speed chain rings will work just fine with the 8 speed chains they are designed for. I'm 99% sure that using narrower 9/10 chain rings will work just fine too. Wider chain will fit over narrower rings and the basic center to center distance of the rings remains the same.

One big gotcha... Campy uses a non-standard flange on their 110 bcd compact chainrings, so their 110 compact stuff won't work with anybody else's crank arms. If you commit to Campy compacts, you are committing their non-standard rings. IMO, they are buffoons for doing this.

In terms of chainring sizes, 50x34 is a pretty standard 110 bcd set up. Most everybody who makes rings in the 110 bcd makes a 34t.


Regarding derailleurs... That 50 to 34 jump is going to require taking up more slack in the chain. You'll want to verify that your RD has enough capacity to take up that much slack. I run a 105 long cage for this reason. Regarding FDs, you may need to move to a mtn/cross FD to get a cage that will handle that big of a jump. Looks like your FD still has a bit it could be lowered and it will if you move down to a 50. Really need a 50? Is 48 enough for your top end gears? That would allow you to lower the FD even more. One of the things you are looking to avoid is having the chain bumping the bottom (back) of the cage. Usually not a problem, especially if you avoid cross over gears. The last issue will ensuring that the FD can handle the 34 to 50 jump. I've never had a problem with this.

my guess is a 39 or 38 will be the smallest that will fit. chainline issues will not be the problem if you switch to a compact crankset, but that front derailleur may very well be a showstopper, as it is brazed on. I used to race (before compact cranks) with a guy that used a mountain bike crank to build his own version of a compact. You could do that, if the derailleur can be mounted low enough to push the chain.

yeah, i misread that. There won't be chain width issues either, unless you score a ten-speed crankset.





My 2005 Orbea has an FSA Gossamer compact and Ultegra front and rear derailleurs. No shifting problems.

Get the new crankset and give it a try. I don't think it'll be too difficult to get the bike up and rolling again.

"If you're sticking with 8-speed shifters (which is what I would do/have done), you compatibility issues are easier."

I had no plans to change the shifters or go up from 8 speeds

"One big gotcha... Campy uses a non-standard flange on their 110 bcd compact chainrings, so their 110 compact stuff won't work with anybody else's crank arms. If you commit to Campy compacts, you are committing their non-standard rings. IMO, they are buffoons for doing this."

No matter what crankset I do with, is it pretty much a given that I'll have to change the BB as well? Any recommends on a crankset if not Campy?

"Regarding FDs, you may need to move to a mtn/cross FD to get a cage that will handle that big of a jump."

Wouldn't any new campy FD work as they are designed to handle compact or standards?

Thanks, Pinnah, for all the great info and good point about the non-standard Campy cranks. As for the FD, wouldn't any new campy FD work as they are designed to handle compact or standars?

I will recommend an MTB crankset, they can be had cheap and they are the same BCD most use spacer for the 3rd ring so there is no clearance issues with a tab. Look for old shimano deore or sugino AT etc.. they look good and are good quality. No sense in spending the money on a modern compact. I used a set of specialized MTB cranks as a compact double for a while... currently only one of my bikes has a compact double and it is 34/50 TA carmina... I intend on picking up a 36t and changing it out as I am always topping out on the 34.. I am considering running a pseudo compact (TA pro-5-vis on corky) something like 50,36... or maybe even just 46/36 since I already have that...

yah. a 46-11 is a pretty big gear, and a 36-26 is a pretty little gear, and an 11-26 (or so) is a pretty fair 8-speed cassette.

Since your derailleurs can handle a 53-39 ringset, they would have no trouble with 50-36 or 48-34, and I strongly suspect 50-34, available in either standard 110mm BCD mountain or compact sizes, would work, as well. 50-34 / 14-26 would give you a great range of gears.

So I ended buying this bike based on the great info I got here. I'll look to change to a compact and maybe upgrade some of the older campy with newer campy ;).

Pics can be seen here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24112236@N05/)