Touring - Fuel availability in France

I will be touring in France for 3 weeks with my wife this summer. The only piece of equipment that brings me worry is the type of fuel/stove to bring. I was thinking of bringing one small cat can stove for back up but we like to actually cook our meals and eat fresh food. I have plenty of experience using different stoves but I don't know which is best to bring. Is white gas readily available in France? If so, in ya'lls opinion what would be a good stove to bring?
Thanks in advance...

Found this listing of what is available and where to find it.

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_FuelNames.htm#countries

We camped around germany and Italy several years ago and the blue Bottles of GAZ seemed to be the most common fuel used. Cheers Scott

http://www.campingaz.com/

I am taking a 4 week trip across France in May, 2008 and plan to use my Trangia alcohol stove.

I am relying on this information (http://www.mark-ju.net/juliette/meths.htm) to find fuel at larger supermarkets stores.

Ray

Moutain Safety Research (MSR) makes a stove called the "Shaker Jet" that is supposed to run on nearly anything flammable you can find.

The old ad I remember said something to the effect that it could burn anything from "...vile Chilean diesel to funky Botswana auto gas..."

Gas, ethanol, kerosene (with starter paste to preheat it), gasoline, white gas camping fuel, diesel, solvent, fuel oil, etc.

I've always wanted one just because it was so damned versatile...

Anyway; my 2 cents. :)

Alcohol is easily available at bricoramas (or hardware stores), in the paint section. In the supermarkets, look for alcool de bruller (I think that's how it's spelt) in the cleaning section. It comes in opaque white square-section one-litre plastic bottles. Machka and I had no trouble sourcing it when there last August/September.

Moutain Safety Research (MSR) makes a stove called the "Shaker Jet" that is supposed to run on nearly anything flammable you can find.

The old ad I remember said something to the effect that it could burn anything from "...vile Chilean diesel to funky Botswana auto gas..."

Gas, ethanol, kerosene (with starter paste to preheat it), gasoline, white gas camping fuel, diesel, solvent, fuel oil, etc.

I've always wanted one just because it was so damned versatile...

Anyway; my 2 cents. :)

The "Shaker Jet" is a feature on just about every liquid fuel stove in the MSR lineup, it's a needle that bounces up and down inside the jet when you shake it to clean the jet.

The MSR X-GK is the original MSR stove and yes, it will burn just about any flammable liquid. It's also very easy to tear down and clean out in the field when the junk you pour into it finally clogs it, and it's pretty easy to overhaul in the field if anything wears out. It's an excellent winter stove because it gets up to full temperature faster than the Whisperlite.

On the down side, it's incredibly loud (it sounds like a miniature jet engine), it won't simmer (at least I can't get mine to simmer) and it's distinctly more expensive than the Whisperlite. And yes, the current model does have the ShakerJet feature.

I have the MSR Whisperlite Internationale. It is on the slightly pricier end but it takes almost any kind of liquid fuel -- white gas, their proprietary stuff, unleaded gasoline, even jet fuel (useful if you crash your plane on a desert island). They give you a couple different valves for different fuel types. With less refined fuels like gasoline the lines will clog up faster, but there is a nice self-cleaning valve and a more in-depth cleaning procedure that they explain.

If you buy this, and a fuel bottle that will fit in a water-bottle cage, you can just top up for a few cents at any gas station. That's about as available as you can get I think...

I have plenty of experience using different stoves but I don't know which is best to bring. Is white gas readily available in France? If so, in ya'lls opinion what would be a good stove to bring?
Thanks in advance...

Yep, white gas or "essence c" is readily available in France...I think I even bought some in a pharmacy in Avignon. Odd...

alcool de bruller
Alcool à brûler ;)
You can find basically everything quite easily in France.
One of the more popular options in France are gas cartridges, like Campingaz (http://www.campingaz.com/). I'm not sure if it can be used with the MSR stoves, I have a very old Campingaz stove myself that takes those blue cartridges, but I don't know if they can be used with another type of stove. They can usually be found in gas stations, some hardware stores and sports/outdoor shops like Décathlon or GoSport.
For alcohol, look for "alcool à brûler" or "alcool dénaturé", I'm not sure which kind gives the best results. As Rowan said, you find them in hardware stores in the paint section in square-ish section white bottles or in supermarkets with cleaning products.
You'll find "essence" at all service stations / car workshops.

The MSR X-GK is the original MSR stove and yes, it will burn just about any flammable liquid. It's also very easy to tear down and clean out in the field when the junk you pour into it finally clogs it, and it's pretty easy to overhaul in the field if anything wears out. It's an excellent winter stove because it gets up to full temperature faster than the Whisperlite.

On the down side, it's incredibly loud (it sounds like a miniature jet engine), it won't simmer (at least I can't get mine to simmer) and it's distinctly more expensive than the Whisperlite. And yes, the current model does have the ShakerJet feature.


Thanks; that's the one I was thinking of.

And you're right- it IS loud.

I figured someone here would have heard of it and could add some better info on precisely what I was thinking of.

Bravo. That's why I love BF.

To MarkF: :beer:

I will be touring in France for 3 weeks with my wife this summer. The only piece of equipment that brings me worry is the type of fuel/stove to bring. I was thinking of bringing one small cat can stove for back up but we like to actually cook our meals and eat fresh food. I have plenty of experience using different stoves but I don't know which is best to bring. Is white gas readily available in France? If so, in ya'lls opinion what would be a good stove to bring?
Thanks in advance...

"Best" is related to values, priorities or goals.

For speed of cooking (once the stove is burning): White gas stoves and canister stoves are among the best choices. Jetboil stoves are faster than most other canister stoves. Alcohol stoves are slower at heating up the food.

For ease of cooking and minimal fuss (including setup and lighting): Jetboil is hard to beat (http://www.jetboil.com/). Other canister stoves are also good, though few are the equal of Jetboil. (Jetboil stoves' lighting and setup and packing times are better, and there is an integrated windshield.)

For clean operation and minimal fumes, odors and soot: Canister stoves and alcohol stoves tend to be better than white gas stoves. White gas is better than most of the alternate fuels used in multi-fuel stoves (the alternate fuels tend to be more fume- and soot-producing). White gas itself is a bit fumiferous and unpleasant (whether burning, spilling, or just evaporating), though it is usually contained, and people differ in their tolerance.

For ease of travel (fewer, or smaller likelihoods of questions, delays, complications, hassles, or confiscations): Canister stoves without the canisters, and alcohol stoves without the alcohol tend to be better. A paper punch is even easier.

For ease of finding fuel: Gasolines are hard to argue with here (though they have other problems, and for some off-road or remote tours availability is an issue). Certain sorts of canisters can be found, as others have indicated, as can white gas and alcohols -- though you might find yourself going out of your way to get them.

For economy of operation: Canister stoves lose here (though the extra cost is rather negligible for most people's budgets); white gas and petrol win over alcohol (at least when they are purchased from the standard sources).

Flexibility as a value: Some multi-fuel stoves give you more flexibility, if that is valued. -- You can use canisters when they are available, or are the preferred fuel choice; you can also use gasoline (or other available fuels) when or if necessary, and white gas when it is the fuel of choice.

Safety: Canister stoves probably have an edge, for the (fewer) number of things that can go wrong. Spills and leakage are also much less likely.

Health: For minimal toxicities and potential toxicities, stoves with good simmering capabilities have an edge, as do the cleaner (cleaner-burning, and cleaner-evaporating) fuels. Canister stoves are hard to beat here.

Reliability: Varies within categories and between categories. It is good to have a stove that is unlikely to let you down.

Simplicity: The simpler stoves, with fewer moving parts, tend to be more reliable (though some of the others are quite reliable as well).

Enjoyable cooking experiences, and successful outcomes (mainly, good meals): Canister stoves for ease of use and minimal hassles; canister stoves and other stoves that have excellent flame control and simmering capabilities [less scorching (which can ruin a meal, or affect the taste -- and make for an unpleasant cleanup chore), and better control and versatility when cooking].

Ecological and environmental concerns: Complex and very multi-faceted.

For a three-week tour you can probably carry all the fuel you need from the outset of the trip, or get by with one refueling stop (if you don't want to carry fuel on the plane, or are unable to, you can fuel up shortly after arriving).

Vodka flasks can be good for carrying ethanol.

Some rums can work as fuel.

www.zenstoves.net (http://www.zenstoves.net/) is a great resource.

One of many relevant subsections:

http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm#Alcohol

If you want to use rubbing alcohol (cheapest easily available fuel on this list) for fuel, you may want to use an open flame stove instead of a jetted stove. If you decided to use a jetted stove, you may need to use larger jets in your stove (#57 drill, pushpin size, ~1.4mm or larger) and try to empty as much left over liquid from your stove as you can after each use (as this will further hinder future fire ups) for it to operate.

The jetted stoves tend to be more finicky; some of the other designs (like the supercat or Trangia) are much less so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)

If you bring a light weight paper punch, and learn to make the supercat stoves, you can make your own stoves just about anywhere, and in only a few seconds.

The simpler designs (the supercat and some of the others) can often be made easily and quickly from widely available and free aluminum cans that are taking up space somewhere. If you are the sort of person who enjoys making a contribution to cleaning up the environment a bit, this value might come into play here.

There are also ways of concentrating the alcohol content of various alcohol-containing beverages and other liquids.

Self-sufficiency: DIY alcohol stoves and DIY fuels are hard to beat.

I've used these sorts of stoves quite a bit, and they are good too, in relation to this value of self-sufficiency (but they are messy and inconvenient in several respects): http://zenstoves.net/Wood.htm

****
Most people seem to have a mix of values or priorities, and just have to find the best overall balance.

Thanks for all the replies. I use a cat can stove for ultra light bikepacking and I use a pocket rocket for when I want to actually cook something for myself. I was looking at the MSR dragon while traveling in Europe for it's multi fuel purpose. I am mainly concernced with the availability of white gas. If I can fill it up once I can make it last for quite a while. I don't really want to use a canister stove because my pocket rocket makes it tough due to it's high base. I also don't want to buy a Jetboil because I won' t be cooking one pot meals. I will probably bring a cat can stove for heating up the water and something else for actual cooking.
Sorry, just thinking out loud here.

Thanks for all the replies. I use a cat can stove for ultra light bikepacking and I use a pocket rocket for when I want to actually cook something for myself. I was looking at the MSR dragon while traveling in Europe for it's multi fuel purpose. I am mainly concernced with the availability of white gas. If I can fill it up once I can make it last for quite a while. I don't really want to use a canister stove because my pocket rocket makes it tough due to it's high base. I also don't want to buy a Jetboil because I won' t be cooking one pot meals. I will probably bring a cat can stove for heating up the water and something else for actual cooking.
Sorry, just thinking out loud here.

We don't mind the thinking out loud -- it can be good sometimes too. ;)

Another route is to combine cat can stoves. Some designs are best for boiling, but not so great for simmering. Other designs are optimized for simmering. These stoves are so light and so small that using two of them is no problem. Even three is no problem.

That way, you can easily switch a pot (that has come to a boil) to a simmering unit for the remaining cooking.

Pot cozies can also be useful for this sort of thing.

Scorched or ruined meals are a real drag sometimes. Pot cozies, good simmering control, and heat diffusers are all helpful in preventing these sorts of problems.

*******
Or you can even put a long-burning simmering unit under the pot along with (at the same time as) a short-burning boiling unit [which burns out just about the time the pot comes to a boil (the amount of fuel needed for well-timed burnouts (or self-extinguishings) becomes second nature after a while -- and it's especially easy to gauge the fuel needed for this if you use a (metal) measuring spoon or some other consistent measuring device)].

There are also some multi-fuel stoves that are able to accept canisters, and are more stable than most of the other canister stove designs.

http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm#Alcohol

The simpler designs (the supercat and some of the others) can often be made from widely available and free aluminum cans that are taking up space somewhere. If you are the sort of person who enjoys making a contribution to cleaning up the environment a bit, this value might come into play here.



That has to be one of the most fascinating sites I've seen on the subject.

I love the minimalist approach and using free aluminum cans is right in line with the "reduce- reuse- recycle" ethos I like.

Thanks for the great link.