Sadly -
Harvey Hetland, loyal LAWheelmen member, excellent cyclist, Grand Tour rider, RAGBRAI rider, and friend of many has lost his life on a bike ride on Wednesday, 03/05/08 ...
He and his companion, Christie Edinger, were on their way home after riding up to Montrose with the Griffith Park group ... They rode up to La Tuna - and on the way down, on a curve with Christie behind him, Harvey was in the lane and was passed on his right by an automobile ... He was not hit by the car - but he lost control of his bike and he "went down" ... The hospital personnel said "he didn't make it" .....
So sudden - and so sad ...
His church, Westminster Presbyterian, is planning for a memorial service for Harvey next week (626 794 7141) ...
The La Tuna Canyon homeowners group (www.latunacanyon.com) would like support for their efforts to make La Tuna safer with slower speeds and a marked bicycle lane. Your help would be appreciated by Harvey and all of his bicycling friends.
Harvey will be missed.
Stay safe .....
we no ho wedeens
nancy & richard
alicestrong
03-06-08, 02:05 PM
Very sad...
to his family and friends...stay strong
tprevost
03-06-08, 02:11 PM
my condolences to his family and friends... I'm really sorry to hear this :(
merider1
03-06-08, 02:13 PM
That is just heartbreaking. :(
badfishgood
03-06-08, 02:27 PM
Rest in peace...
VanceMac
03-06-08, 02:33 PM
His photo is here (http://www.sidemountpedal.com/smp_test.html), about 1/3 down the page (in case you're wondering if you had ever ridden with him).
il bruto
03-06-08, 03:21 PM
His photo is here (http://www.sidemountpedal.com/smp_test.html), about 1/3 down the page (in case you're wondering if you had ever ridden with him).
He is in my thoughts and prayers. R.I.P.
Tumbleweed
03-06-08, 05:51 PM
Sad event. RIP.
Passed on his right? Unless the accident occurred where the road offers a double lane for that direction travel and the cyclist was in the left lane, there's no reason that driver should ever again be allowed to operate a car.
DavidWhiting
03-07-08, 05:25 PM
Another life. My heart goes out. Is this getting worse? Or is it just me? We had a man die this week in O.C. who was hit earlier this year.
merider1
03-07-08, 05:27 PM
Another life. My heart goes out. Is this getting worse? Or is it just me? We had a man die this week in O.C. who was hit earlier this year.
David, I think this too, but I also think that because of the internet and people knowing more folks in the community and the word spreading more, it seems as if it's happening more frequently. Regardless, it is very tragic and disheartening.
jpconrad
03-07-08, 05:29 PM
Traffic's getting worse, there's more cars on the road, I don't see how it could get better.
alicestrong
03-07-08, 05:35 PM
Are more people riding bikes in general and that's why we hear more?
herbm
03-07-08, 05:45 PM
Are more people riding bikes in general and that's why we hear more?
I think thats part of it...but also...drivers are more distracted...blackberries, phones, ipods..etc...not to mention the drunk idiots...
merider1
03-07-08, 05:57 PM
Well, remember, with this incident, a car didn't hit this gentleman. Sometimes, it's accidents, etc. other than a direct hit. Cycling is a dangerous sport, something I myself have to forget about or I'd never get on a bike. :(
herbm
03-07-08, 06:00 PM
Well, remember, with this incident, a car didn't hit this gentleman. Sometimes, it's accidents, etc. other than a direct hit. Cycling is a dangerous sport, something I myself have to forget about or I'd never get on a bike. :(
Thats true...but they fly on La Tuna and that can be un-nerving as well!
merider1
03-07-08, 06:01 PM
Thats true...but they fly on La Tuna and that can be un-nerving as well!
Yeah, I'm a little nervous going out there tomorrow, to be honest, but I'm just going to descend slowly.
herbm
03-07-08, 06:18 PM
Yeah, I'm a little nervous going out there tomorrow, to be honest, but I'm just going to descend slowly.
just be careful and watch for debris!
urbanknight
03-07-08, 06:20 PM
I had a sinking feeling that someone had died when I couldn't get up La Tuna on the way home from work on Wed. The police had it closed down and I wondered. I will definitely check that site out as I travel that road 4 times a week!!! Ironically, I have more close calls on the way up because I'm going so much slower than traffic, but losing control down that hill would be disastrous at 40+ mph.
My prayers are with Harvey's friends and family.
tombunn
03-07-08, 06:47 PM
Yeah, I'm a little nervous going out there tomorrow, to be honest, but I'm just going to descend slowly.
I thought we were ascending? But slowly is right.
tombunn
03-07-08, 06:48 PM
I thought we were ascending? But slowly is right.
Oh I forgot - you said no sandbagging. :rolleyes:
urbanknight
03-07-08, 07:04 PM
Yeah, I'm a little nervous going out there tomorrow, to be honest, but I'm just going to descend slowly.
That actually brings up a tricky debate. I have fewer close calls (even proportionate to the time spent) going down La Tuna than up it because I'm going close to the speed of traffic, giving them more time to react. I imagine half of the buzzes I get going up the road is because they have less time to react before they're already next to me. I'll leave that to personal opinion, though, as I don't have any real evidence.
Tumbleweed
03-07-08, 10:42 PM
That actually brings up a tricky debate. I have fewer close calls (even proportionate to the time spent) going down La Tuna than up it because I'm going close to the speed of traffic, giving them more time to react. I imagine half of the buzzes I get going up the road is because they have less time to react before they're already next to me. I'll leave that to personal opinion, though, as I don't have any real evidence.
but how often are you passed on your right > left? my guess...almost never.
urbanknight
03-07-08, 10:53 PM
but how often are you passed on your right > left? my guess...almost never.
I didn't even notice that part! :eek: I never get passed on the right, but that's because I rarely leave enough room for even another bike to squeeze by on my right. Ironic, however, that some ignorant guy in a pick up buzzed me then told me I was too far out in the lane on Sheldon yesterday (I was riding just outside the door zone in my opinion). Anyway, being passed on the right would startle me for sure, and that leads me to believe the driver is then at fault, unless Harvey was using the left lane.
fthomas
03-07-08, 11:35 PM
Another tragedy caused by a driver who, in my opinion, criminally ignored existing traffic law and placed Mr. Hetland and his riding partner in grave danger. Directly causing the death of a bicyclist. It would be very interesting to find out if the driver knew what they caused and will be charged for a negligent homicide. It sounds like this is more than an unavoidable and tragic accident. Vehicular Manslaughter?
One senseless death such as this is one to many. The tragedy impacts the life of many for ever.
Recently while waiting to make a left turn from a residential two lane side street onto a fast moving two lane feeder road while in the existing lane signaling a left turn I had a driver in her Lexus SUV pull around me to my right and turn in front of me as I started out. I am sure it was more than she could stand to have to wait for a few minutes for an old guy on a bike.
We live in a "It's all about me." society heavily entrenched in the automobile, which gives many drivers the sense of anonymity, entitlement and invincibility. A dangerous and deadly combination!
As fuel prices soar and the economy falters the bicycle should be an exceptional alternative for many. You can't afford the cost of driving a motor vehicle and the risk of these types of accidents are far to great. I believe the time is past due for law enforcement to gain an understanding of the bicycle on our roadways and begin enforcing existing laws on the books. Many drivers will gain a quick understanding of their breaking the law if it impacts their pocket book in the form of a ticket, their driving record and their cost of insurance.
My prayers go out to Mr. Hetland's family and friends. His passing is probably a far greater loss than most of us here can truly appreciate.
fthomas
03-07-08, 11:40 PM
Mr. Hetland's death is tragic and it sounds as if it was completely avoidable.
How can we as a community of riders take this and other tragic bicycle - motor vehicle accidents and raise the awareness of our local media, public officials and law enforcement. How can we use this as motivation to make a difference.
The next life lost very well could be one of us who has posted to this thread. Are you willing to accept that without action? A sobering thought indeed!
Socalcycling
03-08-08, 05:45 AM
Mr. Hetland's death is tragic and it sounds as if it was completely avoidable.
How can we as a community of riders take this and other tragic bicycle - motor vehicle accidents and raise the awareness of our local media, public officials and law enforcement. How can we use this as motivation to make a difference.
The next life lost very well could be one of us who has posted to this thread. Are you willing to accept that without action? A sobering thought indeed!
Sounds like you have all the details.. Care you share them with us?
merider1
03-08-08, 06:50 AM
We live in a "It's all about me." society heavily entrenched in the automobile, which gives many drivers the sense of anonymity, entitlement and invincibility. A dangerous and deadly combination!
I wholeheartedly agree with you. And I shoud clarify, when I mentioned in an earlier post that Mr. Hetland wasn't directly hit by an automobile, I did not mean to imply that the actions of the driver didn't cause this accident (from what is described in the OP, the driver should be held accountable). Drivers have appeared to become more hostile in the last couple of years. Of course, in my experience, I've been riding in heavier traffic as well, so I'm not sure if they have always been this hostile or if it is a newer trend. But on a recent ride, I had four different vehicles turn left in front of me (had to throw my brakes on in all four instsances) off of a busy two lane residential road. Four times in a stretch of six miles! (Riverside Drive through Studio City and Sherman Oaks - worst, rudiest, nastiest drivers in this area for sure). I've also had cars pass me on the left and then speed in front of me to make a right hand turn into gas station and supermarket parking lots, again requiring me to, at times, slam on my brakes to avoid rear-ending them. It's as if we cyclists have no business being there, aren't "going as fast" as a car, and therefore, we'll be able to stop easily and without incident. I pray I'm never hit, of course, but I am aware of this danger and try to ride defensively, not offensively - I'm not one to fight it out with the motorists. I don't think it's worth it.
Of course, there are times, like in this very tragic instance, where control can be lost just do to the circumstances. As I said earlier, it's a very dangerous sport we all partake in, no doubt about it.
urbanknight
03-08-08, 07:57 AM
Recently while waiting to make a left turn from a residential two lane side street onto a fast moving two lane feeder road while in the existing lane signaling a left turn I had a driver in her Lexus SUV pull around me to my right and turn in front of me as I started out. I am sure it was more than she could stand to have to wait for a few minutes for an old guy on a bike.
Probably more like a few seconds. I amuse myself by counting how much time someone would have lost by waiting behind me instead of passing in dangerous conditions, and have yet to count to 10!
fthomas
03-08-08, 12:50 PM
Sounds like you have all the details.. Care you share them with us?
I only have the details as presented by the OP. Cyclist passed on the right. Bicyclist lost control and crashes resulting in death.
It appears that Mr. Hetland was totally taken by surprise and was probably startled and taking evasive action.
I know that this is quite a bit so surmise. It will still be interesting if someone can post the Police Report.
Grumpy Pig
03-08-08, 02:18 PM
I only have the details as presented by the OP. Cyclist passed on the right. Bicyclist lost control and crashes resulting in death.
It appears that Mr. Hetland was totally taken by surprise and was probably startled and taking evasive action.
I know that this is quite a bit so surmise. It will still be interesting if someone can post the Police Report.
It's ridiculous to make assumptions based on no facts.
Socalcycling
03-08-08, 02:31 PM
exactly...
fthomas
03-08-08, 02:41 PM
It's ridiculous to make assumptions based on no facts.
Yes and with little information to go on verses "no facts". That in no way distracts from the fact that we all experience dangerous and aggressive motor vehicle drivers when riding on the roads.
A sad and tragic fact is that Mr. Hetland is dead. That is not an assumption nor conjecture!
Fact: Many here are searching for solutions - not just canned answers - to safely riding in a dangerous and hostile environment and how the risk can be minimized. I don't believe that anyone believes it can be eliminated.
From the OP - Mr Hetland was passed on the right resulting in the loss of control of his bicycle and death.
Fact: Another Needless Tragedy
Grumpy Pig
03-08-08, 02:57 PM
I'm not arguing that this is not a tragedy.
Harvey was in the lane and was passed on his right by an automobile ... He was not hit by the car - but he lost control of his bike and he "went down"
I'm not saying the vehicle is not at fault. I have no idea what happened besides the two lines above. I am saying that it is ridiculous to accuse a person of vehicular manslaughter based on those two lines of text.
urbanknight
03-09-08, 10:39 AM
^ Eh, I would argue that if the driver passed on the right, s/he broke the law resulting in the rider's crash. Involuntary manslaughter, meaning it was done by accident but still caused by the neglegence of the driver. We in the US seem hesitant to call someone out for something they cause by mistake. The truth is, mistakes cause damage and people need to own up to that. It doesn't make them bad people.
LCI_Brian
03-09-08, 02:15 PM
But on a recent ride, I had four different vehicles turn left in front of me (had to throw my brakes on in all four instances) off of a busy two lane residential road. Four times in a stretch of six miles! (Riverside Drive through Studio City and Sherman Oaks - worst, rudiest, nastiest drivers in this area for sure). I've also had cars pass me on the left and then speed in front of me to make a right hand turn into gas station and supermarket parking lots, again requiring me to, at times, slam on my brakes to avoid rear-ending them.
Or it could just be that there's no ill will intended, but they are just making honest (but arguably still not excusable) mistakes.
In the first case, where the motorist turns left across your path, he's probably used to looking for cars in the middle of the lane and not bikes on the edge before making the turn. Even if he does see you, if you're at the edge of the road he may assume you're going a lot slower than you really are.
In the second example, when the motorist knows you're there, but passes you on the left and then quickly turns right, he might think that everything is OK when he passes you, but he doesn't realize that you're going fast enough for you to catch up to him while he's slowing down and making the right turn.
My vote is that these are honest mistakes, because if I ride a bit further left, these scenarios happen much less frequently.
In any event, at first glance it seems that the motorist in the OP is at fault for passing the cyclist on the right (with the BIG assumption that it was too close of a pass also) - but even the "passing on the right" by itself isn't enough information to place the motorist at fault - because passing on the right is OK if the cyclist is going straight and the motorist is going right, or if the cyclist is going left and the motorist is going straight.
urbanknight
03-09-08, 05:17 PM
In any event, at first glance it seems that the motorist in the OP is at fault for passing the cyclist on the right (with the BIG assumption that it was too close of a pass also) - but even the "passing on the right" by itself isn't enough information to place the motorist at fault - because passing on the right is OK if the cyclist is going straight and the motorist is going right, or if the cyclist is going left and the motorist is going straight.
True, but chances are neither of these situations were present since the descent portion doesn't have any cross streets, and very few driveways. In the case of a driveway, the motorist can not pass on the right because the cyclist is in the right lane which goes straight (no right turn lane here), so the motorist has to wait behind the cyclist to make the turn.
Socalcycling
03-09-08, 05:36 PM
This is getting stupid.. The law says that a cyclist must ride as close to the right as possible. If there was enough room for a car to pass him on the right then just maybe he was too far to the left. Since when did it become illegal for a car to pass on the right??? It's not..
merider1
03-09-08, 05:40 PM
Or it could just be that there's no ill will intended, but they are just making honest (but arguably still not excusable) mistakes.
.
Brian, if a pedestrian is walking on a sidewalk and a driver turns left and hits that pedestrian as he/she walks across the parking lot entrance, would you think the same? What if that pedestrian was in a cross walk (legally) in an intersection and a car turns into him/her. The bottom line is, I was a cyclist in a bike lane riding as I'm allowed by law to do. Motorists in an attempt to turn across a busy street have to yield to me, period. And just so you know, they looked right at me and then away quickly when turning. If it were an honest mistake, where was a sign, look or gesture that they were sorry?
No, they figured they can beat the cyclist and make the turn. Dangerous and at times deadly and the motorist is always at fault for foolishly putting a cyclist's life at risk because he/she is in a hurry to turn.
jpconrad
03-09-08, 05:42 PM
This is getting stupid.. The law says that a cyclist must ride as close to the right as possible. If there was enough room for a car to pass him on the right then just maybe he was too far to the left. Since when did it become illegal for a car to pass on the right??? It's not..
Have you ridden down La Tuna?
mtnmn
03-09-08, 06:14 PM
We live in a "It's all about me." society heavily entrenched in the automobile, which gives many drivers the sense of anonymity, entitlement and invincibility. A dangerous and deadly combination!
As fuel prices soar and the economy falters the bicycle should be an exceptional alternative for many. You can't afford the cost of driving a motor vehicle and the risk of these types of accidents are far to great. I believe the time is past due for law enforcement to gain an understanding of the bicycle on our roadways and begin enforcing existing laws on the books. Many drivers will gain a quick understanding of their breaking the law if it impacts their pocket book in the form of a ticket, their driving record and their cost of insurance.
My prayers go out to Mr. Hetland's family and friends. His passing is probably a far greater loss than most of us here can truly appreciate.
Several months ago I was at bike shop and noticed a bumper sticker pointing out 5' between car and cyclist when overtaking and passing. Asking I found out that it was one of our less populated neighbors, AZ or NM. On looking into this I found that several other states as well as local jurisdictions have adopted similar legislation and that CA came close (http://www.cyclingcynics.com/2007/01/proposed-bill-aims-to-protect-bike.html).
There was staunch opposition from commercial drivers including Teamsters Union, AAA even opposed it. As has been pointed out in previous times, their arguments are without merit. If your driving too fast to adjust to the constraint demanded by the law, your driving too fast for conditions generally. As commercial driver it has been defensive driving SOP to change lanes when overtaking a cyclist or if conditions won't allow that then to slow to a safe speed moving as far to the left as possible to overtake and pass.
Interestingly, I read in BF archive posting objection because three feet was not enough. Whether 1 foot or 5 feet a CVC requirement with penalties gives law enforcement the tool to act when driver is observed place a cyclist in jeopardy. It begins the shifting of perception and awareness between the parties.
Personally, I think it is the duty of every citizen in a democracy to actively lobby their representatives on matters of importance. Certainly, a safer enforceable relationship between cyclists and the motoring public is a matter of importance that impacts each of us who ride a bike or have children doing so.
JeffB502
03-09-08, 06:19 PM
First off, I'm very sad to hear this, and it's always sad to hear when somebody dies when they just went out for a fun bike ride.
I've never ridden down in that area, but I think I have seen video showing riders going at or near the speed a motor vehicle would be traveling down those hills, especially in the turns.
I have to reply to this statement by socalcycling...
This is getting stupid.. The law says that a cyclist must ride as close to the right as possible. If there was enough room for a car to pass him on the right then just maybe he was too far to the left. Since when did it become illegal for a car to pass on the right??? It's not..
Here's the law you were thinking of socalcycling: 21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed
less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction
at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand
curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following
situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle
proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a
private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but
not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles,
pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes)
that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge,
subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this
section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for
a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the
lane.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway,
which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or
more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or
edge of that roadway as practicable. (bold added for emphasis)
I'm not familiar with the particular road mentioned, but I'll assume it's 1 lane each way with a double yellow line and solid white lines for shoulders. If he was going anywhere near the speed of a normal motor vehicle on the downhill, he obviously has a legal right to be in the middle of the lane, or even the far left of the lane, to make sure people won't try to unsafely pass. Obviously if there's debris on the shoulder (if a shoulder exists) he would have to ride in the main traffic lane as well. This story doesn't give us any useful information on where the cyclists was positioned, or how the driver got on his right, I'm just explaining the law so you can see how it would be possible for a motor vehicle operator to unsafely pass a bicycle on the right.
Unfortunately it's hard to block dumbasses that want to use the shoulder to illegally pass on the right. I had one incident on my commute route (a 2 lane 55mph road with uneven/unrideable dirt shoulders) up here in Santa Maria, where I was riding in the center of the paved lane, a tractor/trailer had slowed to my speed (15mph into a headwind) and was following at a safe distance, and there was alot of oncoming traffic so passing wasn't an option. Some dumbass in a Ford Ranger used the dirt shoulder to pass the tractor trailer on the right, then cut the tractor trailer off, almost clipping me (I had to swerve left towards the center line to get out of the way of the pickup truck...luckily i heard it coming).
People are idiots, and we can only do so much to avoid them. Unfortunately alot of people out there are ignorant of the law as well, and think bicycles have to ride single file/as far right as possible at all times.
jpconrad
03-09-08, 08:07 PM
I haven't descended La Tuna, I'm sure urbanknight has, but I've ridden up it a few times and it's always been pretty messy with sand, gravel, and glass so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same on the opposite side of the street.
merider1
03-09-08, 08:24 PM
Well, I'm confused. I thought it was illegal for a car to pass on the right, especially if in the same lane. :eek: I mean, if someone did that in a car and he/she caused an accident, he/she would be held responsible, yes?
Why any different for a cyclist? If you have to take a lane for safety, it's legal to do so.
urbanknight
03-09-08, 09:54 PM
John, the faster sections aren't that bad, but there's usually no buffer on the shoulder so you can't ride close to the white line (at least not while going 30-40 mph). The lower, flatter section has a rather torn up shoulder which is actually the parking lane so I feel justified riding in the traffic part of the lane (there are always some cars parked there anyway). A car could squeeze by on the right in that case, but it would take some stupid logic to make that decision.
Mary, I would count much of La Tuna as substandard width, and if a cyclist is riding as far to the right as reasonable, it should be implied that it's unsafe to pass on the right. Thinking of what I know about La Tuna, if it was the fast section the car didn't have enough room to safely pass. If it was the flatter section, the driver passed in a parking lane, which is illegal altogether.
I had an argument with a motorist about this on Sheldon on Thursday as he felt I was riding too far out in the lane. I explained that it was MY job to decide where was the safest to the right, and HIS job to pass me with a safe distance between us. He still disagreed and we went our own ways, but I appreciated his willingness to stop and discuss it without it being a shouting or pissing match.
DScott
03-09-08, 09:58 PM
So, is La Tuna one lane or two?
urbanknight
03-09-08, 10:06 PM
So, is La Tuna one lane or two?
It goes back and fourth with many long passing lanes between single sections and then opening up to two lanes at the bottom. Amazingly enough, I get buzzed more often when there is a passing lane as opposed to a single lane (when climbing it). Probably because that's where the fast drivers are trying to get around the slower ones.
urbanknight
03-09-08, 11:47 PM
My wife just came across an article to this site. I don't know Harvey personally, but if someone who does would like to make a memorial to him (or any other rider killed on the road) and as a reminder that drivers need to be more cautious behind the wheel, this looks like a nice idea.
www.ghostbikes.org
DavidWhiting
03-10-08, 08:37 AM
I think thats part of it...but also...drivers are more distracted...blackberries, phones, ipods..etc...not to mention the drunk idiots...
I have to agree with this. In my regular job as News Director at The Orange County Register I see the details on all fatal cycling accidents. And driver awareness would really go a long way. (Plus cyclists not making things worse by upsetting drivers by running lights and what not.)
jpconrad
03-12-08, 07:19 AM
Another update from the LA Wheelmen...
hello all ...
The initial information we received (from a viewer of surveillance video) was, most likely incorrect ...
We were told that a car passed Harvey on his right, causing him to lose control, but it did not hit him ...
Then the Pasadena Star News said that he was hit by a car ...
We were then informed (by another viewer of the video) that the car first passed Christie and then Harvey, each on their left ...(on La Tuna Canyon Road) ....
Harvey then seemed to lose control of the bike on the downhill curve ...
We may never know the exact cause of the high-speed (maybe 25-30 mph) wobble and the subsequent fall ..... but he died quickly ... tragically ...
Services for Harvey Hetland will be held on Thursday at the Westminster Presbyterian Church at 11:am in Pasadena - 1757 N Lake (at New York) .....
Harvey was a wonderful friend - to many - and he will be sorely missed ........
The Los Angeles Wheelmen will, most likely, have a "Harvey Hetland" special ride this spring.