I have a seven day self-supported bike-camping tour scheduled for the first week of June. The ride is from Pittsburgh to Washington DC, first half on the rail-trail to Cumberland, MD, and from there to DC on the C & O Canal towpath, 335 miles total. The rail trail is crushed limestone, with no more than a 2 percent grade, and much of it much less. The gravel and dirt towpath drops 625 feet over 184 miles into DC. The only portion of the ride on roads will be at the beginning and end, and the odd occasions we venture off the trail - Antietam Battlefield, Harper's Ferry, downtown Cumberland and Williamsport, etc. These might be the only hills as well.
I don't know which bike to use. I have a choice of two, a Trek Navigator 3.0, or a Trek 7.5 fx, or purchasing a mountain bike. Here are the pros and cons of each:
Navigator:
PRO: I own it already. It has an aluminum fork that can take a front rack - it already has a rear one. It has wide tires. It is very stable.
CON:It weighs a ton. It's sluggish. The forward pedaling position isn't the most efficient, and it might be difficult to ride it 335 miles over a week. I look like a dork riding it - see my avatar. While it's a tank, it's not made for muddy, potholed dirt towpaths.
7.5:
PRO: I own it. It's lightweight. It's nimble. It has a rear rack. I look less like a dork riding it. It's very dialed in.
CON: It has a carbon fork, so it cannot take a front rack. It needs wider tires, a 36 spoke rear wheel, and possibly a trailer. Loading up the rear rack unbalances the bike. The towpath might be too offroad for it.
Buying a new MTB:
PRO: Hey, it's a new bike!
CON: Hey, I don't want to spend the money, and hey, I'd like to use stuff I already own. Also, I'd need time to get dialed in to the new bike.
Your thoughts?
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
Didn't your 7.5 FX come with 700x32 tires? That's a very common touring size. Although those "Race Lites" aren't a perfect trail tire.
However I agree it's not an optimal touring bike. At least not for heavy loads. How much do you plan on taking?
Artkansas
Go for a good touring bike. With all the money you will spend on the trip, getting a good touring bike will be money well spent.
The Historian
Didn't your 7.5 FX come with 700x32 tires? That's a very common touring size. Although those "Race Lites" aren't a perfect trail tire.
However I agree it's not an optimal touring bike. At least not for heavy loads. How much do you plan on taking?
Tent, sleeping bag, tent footprint, sleeping pad, pillow, camp stove, camp pot, plate/mug/spoon/fork/knife, camera, food for one day, book, Ipod and headphones, clothing and toiletries for seven days, Crocs, first aid kit for me and the bike, maps, locks, etc.
big john
If you don't want to buy a new bike, you can use the Navigator. If you're carrying camping gear and a bunch of stuff, the weight of the bike won't be an issue. Just do everything you can to make it comfortable and dependable for the trip. Sounds like a great time!
Tom Bombadil
I've checked that trail out before. While it does have an overall net drop in elevation from Pittsburgh to DC and while it may not have any inclines of greater than 2%, that is a challenging rail trail due to it having something like a 60 mile stretch where you are riding uphill most of the way. Now granted it is a slight incline, climbing around 1700' total, or an average of just under 30' a mile. But that is a long stretch of slowly grinding up over the Appalachians.
When I was back there last summer, I was tempted to drive over to where it crests the mountains, in order to take that wild 20 mile downhill ride toward Cumberland. Where it drops about 100' per mile.
Don't think I'd want to try to ride west up that incline.
I wouldn't mind riding that trail someday. Plan to be back in that area in June, but only a short stay that won't give me enough time to get over thataway. I love the area, been to Cumberland, Frostburg, and Harper's Ferry many times.
The Historian
Go for a good touring bike. With all the money you will spend on the trip, getting a good touring bike will be money well spent.
I don't have the money for both the touring bike and the tour, unfortunately. That's one reason I pushed off my cross country tour to 2009.
Leaving aside bike costs and buying camping gear, the whole tour should come in at less than 400 bucks. That includes the rental SUV to Pittsburgh and one night in a hotel.
Tom Bombadil
The Navigator is a mild crank-forward design. People do tour on crank-forwards. Even through hilly terrain. I think that bike is capable of such a tour, averaging close to 50 miles a day, if it is a comfortable ride for you. Granted it is heavy and not the first choice for many.
The towpath would have to be pretty choppy for it to be too rough for the 7.5. Trek FX bikes are very popular on the limestone bike trails in Wisconsin. If that is a standard graded and rolled, then limestoned bike path, there should be no problem at all. Although I do think you need to replace that rear wheel if you are going to tour on the bike.
Is your comment about the extra weight on the back of FX "unbalancing" it, based upon your own experience?
Red Baron
I think you need to hire someone to carry along your stuff!
Dogbait
Never pass up an opportunity to buy a new bike. You have an excellent excuse staring you in the face.
stapfam
Never pass up an opportunity to buy a new bike. You have an excellent excuse staring you in the face.
One of the problems you face when touring is the amount of baggage you have to carry. Will either of the current bikes take the panniers and extra weight that this involves? And is that the bike that you prefer to ride.
But a dedicated tourer would be extra expense that may not be welcome- and would take some sorting and adjusting to get right.
Whichever way you go on bikes- enjoy the tour.
Jet Travis
If you don't want to buy a new bike, you can use the Navigator. If you're carrying camping gear and a bunch of stuff, the weight of the bike won't be an issue. Just do everything you can to make it comfortable and dependable for the trip. Sounds like a great time!
+1.
I've ridden this trip. Should be a lot of fun--and historical.
BSLeVan
I agree with Big John, with all of the camping gear, the weight of the bike is not all that much of an issue. Can you get all of your gear on the the rear, and have you ridden both bikes with all of you gear on them? I'd take a test run on both bikes fully loaded before making my decision. The handling characteristics of a fully loaded bike are very different than one that is less encumbered.
BTW, I hope you are aware that Williamsport has some major climbs. In my 20s it was one of the places I used to train on hills. My brother still lives in that area, and he reports that weather related erosion has not lowered the hills in the last 30 years.;)
The Historian
I agree with Big John, with all of the camping gear, the weight of the bike is not all that much of an issue. Can you get all of your gear on the the rear, and have you ridden both bikes with all of you gear on them? I'd take a test run on both bikes fully loaded before making my decision. The handling characteristics of a fully loaded bike are very different than one that is less encumbered.
BTW, I hope you are aware that Williamsport has some major climbs. In my 20s it was one of the places I used to train on hills. My brother still lives in that area, and he reports that weather related erosion has not lowered the hills in the last 30 years.;)
We are spending the night in Williamsport, crashing for the night in a friend's basement. To his house and back is all the cycling we are doing in town. Except for finding an all you can eat breakfast buffet, perhaps.
The Historian
One of the problems you face when touring is the amount of baggage you have to carry. Will either of the current bikes take the panniers and extra weight that this involves? And is that the bike that you prefer to ride.
But a dedicated tourer would be extra expense that may not be welcome- and would take some sorting and adjusting to get right.
Whichever way you go on bikes- enjoy the tour.
I've commuted to work on both bikes, and ridden short tours on both. Both have rear racks. But I've never had the tent and sleeping bag on either, nor carried a week's worth of stuff on them.
The 7.5 is probably the better fitting bike, and it's the one I prefer.
BSLeVan
We are spending the night in Williamsport, crashing for the night in a friend's basement. To his house and back is all the cycling we are doing in town. Except for finding an all you can eat breakfast buffet, perhaps.
Stay off US Route 15 if you can. It's typically full of heavy dump trucks, 18 wheelers, and people in cars annoyed that they have to wait to pass all the trucks.... not much of a fun ride on that road. Try the New Super Crown Buffet on E. 3rd street for an "all you can eat" experience. You should also have your friend check to see if any of the local volunteer fire companies are having a fund raising breakfast during the time you are there. I've had some very tasty breakfast meals in that region of PA at such venues, and they're usually located in places that aren't on main highways.
The Historian
Is your comment about the extra weight on the back of FX "unbalancing" it, based upon your own experience?
The bike, and probably the rider as well, was a little unbalanced on the four day Christmas tour we rode (Kimberton-Philadelphia-Doylestown-Bethlehem and home.) That was a hotel stay, so no tent or sleeping bag. I got used to the extra weight on the back, and had no difficulty riding, aside from hills. I'd forgotten that Bethlehem, PA, is atop a mountain. :D
neilfein
I think you need to hire someone to carry along your stuff!
I thought that was what I was for. :D
dbg
Hopefully the C&O Bicycle Shop is still there in Hancock MD. It is directly off the trail.
http://www.candobicycle.com/
They had run a contest where the best essay entry was given the shop. I entered for the heck of it but clearly would not have been able to drop everything and move to Hancock. I visited them 2 years ago on the way to HHI and really like the homey feel of the place. They also had some rugged dorm-like facilities and a large camp fire area where I imagined lots of touring stories get swapped.
Check them out. And I'd love to hear all about. (I want to do that routre someday)
buelito
I have ridden the C&O Canal from Cumberland to DC twice--both times on a mountain bike, with 2 inch wide tires. Both times minimally loaded with a rear rack only. The only thing I would change were I to do it again is to possibly get a front suspension on the bike--although it is almost flat, there are roots and rocks and stuff-- the wider tires will especially be nice if it rains--and the front suspension will save your arms a bit-- that is what I remember about the ride on the rigid mountain bike. All the bumps were absorbed by my arms-- There is one stretch where you have to get off the tow-path and ride roads for about 4-5 miles (if I remember correctly)--and there is a hill on that detour :) but that will actually be a welcome change--as it allows you to stand up! A change of position always helps-
At any rate, I would opt for whatever bike has the wider tires, or if you are going to get a mountain bike anyway, go ahead and get one and use it for this trip-
enjoy!
train safe-
the_driver
Hey Historian
Like someone else here pointed out. Load one bike up and do 40 miles. Next weekend do the same with the other bike. It may take a few weekends of doing this but I'm sure by the time you are done the correct bike will be obvious.
And buy a steel or aluminum fork if you can scrape up the dough.
BillK
7.5:
PRO: I own it. It's lightweight. It's nimble. It has a rear rack. I look less like a dork riding it. It's very dialed in.
CON: It has a carbon fork, so it cannot take a front rack. It needs wider tires, a 36 spoke rear wheel, and possibly a trailer. Loading up the rear rack unbalances the bike. The towpath might be too offroad for it.
If this bike is truly "dialed in", then I'd start here and make a few upgrades, including: a) a different fork that's front rack capable, b) a 36 spoke rear wheel, and c) wider tires. Then, after you've loaded it down you'll still have time & $ to dial it in again (if necessary) or decide to go the trailer route.
BigBlueToe
I understand the money thing. Go with one of the bikes you have if it's the only way you can go. But you seem to be getting into this touring thing, so I second the advice of someone who suggested you buy a real touring bike. Put it on your list for someday. It's really nice to tour on a bike designed for touring. I have a Surly LHT that I love, but there are lots of others. You can even find them used on Ebay. They won't be dirt cheap, but you'll save a little money if you're patient and know what you're looking for. If you're a member of REI you can use your 20% off coupon for the rest of March and buy a Randoneer for $700+. That's a good deal. Or start saving your money for next year's 20% off sale. And a new, complete LHT is only $900. (Only)
The Historian
I understand the money thing. Go with one of the bikes you have if it's the only way you can go. But you seem to be getting into this touring thing, so I second the advice of someone who suggested you buy a real touring bike. Put it on your list for someday. It's really nice to tour on a bike designed for touring. I have a Surly LHT that I love, but there are lots of others. You can even find them used on Ebay. They won't be dirt cheap, but you'll save a little money if you're patient and know what you're looking for. If you're a member of REI you can use your 20% off coupon for the rest of March and buy a Randoneer for $700+. That's a good deal. Or start saving your money for next year's 20% off sale. And a new, complete LHT is only $900. (Only)
Yes, that's the goal. However, I'd need to learn to ride drop bars before then. Meanwhile, I'm going to go on what I have.
The Historian
I thought that was what I was for. :D
If you want to volunteer, who am I to say no?
stevesurf
I voted 7.5, and, although I have enjoyed Rand's literature, I also vote for a name change to The Intrepid!
Have you looked into a decent trailer like this, or is it not compatible with the roads you are going on?
I'm sure I could get it out to you in time for a couple of shake-down rides. Why would I do this?
1. Two guys named "Neil" taking a trip together... how cool is that!
2. One's a musician, one's into history... hey, I can relate.
3. I can't get the punchline "Chess nuts boasting round an open foyer" out of my head.
4. I have a similar dilemma about which bike to take.
5. A guy who misses his wife when he's away can't be bad... neither can his friend.
Just call me a softie.
Judy
The Historian
Would you guys like to borrow a BoB?
I'm sure I could get it out to you in time for a couple of shake-down rides. Why would I do this?
1. Two guys named "Neil" taking a trip together... how cool is that!
2. One's a musician, one's into history... hey, I can relate.
3. I can't get the punchline "Chess nuts boasting round an open foyer" out of my head.
4. I have a similar dilemma about which bike to take.
5. A guy who misses his wife when he's away can't be bad... neither can his friend.
Just call me a softie.
Judy
Hi Judy,
A couple of other interesting points to add:
- one Neil has structural problems, and the other has epilepsy.
- they met each other through Bike Forums.
- they've both lost a lot of weight (Neil F. 45 pounds, me 140).
Actually, a single wheel trailer is the best choice for the trails we are taking, simply because it often deteriorates to this:
http://bikewashington.org/canal/condition2.jpg
Or worse:
http://bikewashington.org/canal/condition3.jpg
The Historian
I like the idea of a trailer. It's something you could use on the cross country trip, too.
I was trying to avoid buying yet again more bike gear, but it looks like more and more a trailer is going to be needed. Just the thing to feed my overpacking habit. I can see my tossing the Riverside Shakespeare in the trailer - "I have so much room...."
RoMad
Neil, to me the Bob sounds like the way to go. You can ride the bike that fits you best and it should handle just fine with the load on the trailer. I use to have a two wheeled trailer that I made from the rear end of an adult trike and I pulled my son all over in it. I am envious of you, that trip sounds like a lot of fun.
TruF
I voted 7.5, and, although I have enjoyed Rand's literature, I also vote for a name change to The Intrepid!
I totally missed that reference! I read Atlas Shrugged years ago, and just recently started reading The Fountainhead. Although I think Ayn Rand was rather remarkable, I think she was way kinky when it came to sex and relationships. I just cannot grasp the twisted relationship of Howard and Dominique. :eek:
The Smokester
Tent, sleeping bag, tent footprint, sleeping pad, pillow, camp stove, camp pot, plate/mug/spoon/fork/knife, camera, food for one day, book, Ipod and headphones, clothing and toiletries for seven days, Crocs, first aid kit for me and the bike, maps, locks, etc.
Tent: 3 lb
Sleeping bag: 1.5 lb
Footprint: Fahgedabouttit
Sleeping pad: 0.5 lb
Pillow: Use stuff sack and spare clothes
Camp stove, fuel and pot: 1.5 lb
Cup and spoon: 0.25
Food: 2 lb/day
Clothing: 5 lb
Sandles: 1
Book: Use ipod
Toiletries: 1 lb
First aid: 1lb
Misc (maps, lock, camera, ipod...) 5 lb
Total: about 22 lb
If your load doesn't weight this little and fit in 2200 cu's then that is where you should invest time, money and experience which will pay off for all the other tours you will ever do. Then, any bike will do. :)
The Historian
I totally missed that reference! I read Atlas Shrugged years ago, and just recently started reading The Fountainhead. Although I think Ayn Rand was rather remarkable, I think she was way kinky when it came to sex and relationships. I just cannot grasp the twisted relationship of Howard and Dominique. :eek:
I won't spoil the book for you, but if you think it's kinky NOW...... ;)
The Historian
Tent: 3 lb
Sleeping bag: 1.5 lb
Footprint: Fahgedabouttit
Sleeping pad: 0.5 lb
Pillow: Use stuff sack and spare clothes
Camp stove, fuel and pot: 1.5 lb
Cup and spoon: 0.25
Food: 2 lb/day
Clothing: 5 lb
Sandles: 1
Book: Use ipod
Toiletries: 1 lb
First aid: 1lb
Misc (maps, lock, camera, ipod...) 5 lb
Total: about 22 lb
If your load doesn't weight this little and fit in 2200 cu's then that is where you should invest time, money and experience which will pay off for all the other tours you will ever do. Then, any bike will do. :)
My tent is 6.5 pounds, and the sleeping bag over 3 pounds. Also, I will bring a book and a lightweight pillow. Also a hand towel.
You think it's OK to skip a tent footprint? Why?
big john
Trailers tend to get filled up, and you have to add the weight of the trailer to the total load. If you are off road, or on a rough road, you could bend the connecting hardware. It's still good for certain people.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u308/bigjohn53/R00107221.jpg
stevesurf
I totally missed that reference! I read Atlas Shrugged years ago, and just recently started reading The Fountainhead. Although I think Ayn Rand was rather remarkable, I think she was way kinky when it came to sex and relationships. I just cannot grasp the twisted relationship of Howard and Dominique. :eek:
OT: I fully agree and at times have fantasies of such cerebral yet sensual women...and yet I understand them, romantically tormenting each other, a couple of tormented romantics! I am almost afraid to say I experienced that at least once in my life :D
Neil, I would:
- take the young man with the Bob up on his offer
- get a fluid trainer to fill in the days up to your ride, if you have not done so already (this will make a big difference in your physical stamina)
- my offer still stands of some reserve tubes for your trip
stevesurf
Trailers tend to get filled up, and you have to add the weight of the trailer to the total load. If you are off road, or on a rough road, you could bend the connecting hardware. It's still good for certain people.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u308/bigjohn53/R00107221.jpgThat's a cool trailer - the only way to go!
The Historian
OT: I fully agree and at times have fantasies of such cerebral yet sensual women...and yet I understand them, romantically tormenting each other, a couple of tormented romantics! I am almost afraid to say I experienced that at least once in my life :D
Neil, I would:
- take the young man with the Bob up on his offer
- get a fluid trainer to fill in the days up to your ride, if you have not done so already (this will make a big difference in your physical stamina)
- my offer still stands of some reserve tubes for your trip
I'll take up Judy, a woman as far as I know, up on her offer, and you up on yours. When are you in Princeton next?
stevesurf
I'll take up Judy, a woman as far as I know, up on her offer, and you up on yours. When are you in Princeton next?
Next week...what size tires are you using?
The Historian
Next week...what size tires are you using?
Sorry, I won't be in Princeton for two weeks. As for tire size, I haven't gotten cyclecross tires yet, so I don't know. I guess 38s will fit on my rims. I'm using 32s now.
tom cotter
+1 on the wider tires. The trail has ruts and rocks and often will deteriorate into muddy jeep tracks after heavy summertime rains.
I'd recco against a trailer. Pulling a trailer on pavement is alot easier than on a trail. Especially if the trail is muddy or is in poor condition. And yes BoB has an off road trailer. Still, you are going to riding most of the Cumberland to DC leg on dirt, mud and gravel. Additionally ,considering your budget, a trailer is about $300. You could by a cheap mountain bike for that.
As for the crank forward issue, recumbents have done the trail. If they can do it, so can you.
While a mountain bike would be better suited to this particular tour, not so much so to justify its cost over the bikes you already own. Either of your bikes will do this trail tour with minor, inexpensive modifications. Wider tires being one, if your tires aren't at least 32cm.
TruF
I won't spoil the book for you, but if you think it's kinky NOW...... ;)
:eek::eek: She just married the contemptable creepy loser! It gets worse???
Edit: I wish this forum had a spell-check feature.
Digital Gee
It's better to be an Indecisive Historian than a Revisionist Historian. :D
Tom Bombadil
Ah, but he is indecisive about which revisionist theory to apply.