Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - are the aeroheads and iro hubs worth it?

im looking to upgrade from the stock wheels and hubs that came on my kilo and i really dont want to pay an arm and a leg. i dont care about them being crazy colors or any of that crap, i just want something better than i have now. is there something else out there thats more cost efficient?

Define "better". If you're not having problems with your current wheelset then leave it alone. Otherwise you're just burning money.

i dunno, i just dont get a very safe feeling from them. there are lots of really huge potholes on my usual route to and from school and im terribly afraid that im gonna hit one someday and my wheel is just gonna collapse. is that unreasonable?

kinda, yeah. though in an environment like what you described, a stronger wheel might require less frequent truing, which isn't frivolous imo.

What do you have now? I have a pair of Velocity Aero rims (their cheapest). They stay nice and true all the time. Not real wild about the braking surface. I have about 2k miles on that wheelset.

On my other bike, I have Mavic Open Sports laced to a Dimension hub. So far so good with that wheel as well.

Finally, my third (semi-retired) bike has an Alex DC19 rim that's bombproof. I probably have around 2k on that wheel as well.

Basically, I only buy cheap stuff. And it all works fine for me.

And potholes will kill any wheel if they are big enough.

i just feel like what came stock is something that really should be swapped out sooner or later. also, i feel like im constantly getting flats but im not sure if its because of a pinch from the rim or if its just because the tires i have on now blow goats for quarters.

i just want to improve my ride so i feel more comfortable riding and stop feeling like i have to baby it when im out.

I need to know what it is? What did it come stock on? For example, the Alex DC19 wheelset that comes on the Raliegh Rush Hour is pretty damn strong in my opinion.

36H Aluminum Aero Section Track DoubleWall, is what the bikes direct site says.

Sorry, I didn't look at your original post close enough. A 36h track wheel is going to be @#$% strong. If strength is your concern, don't spend money unless something breaks or bends. Just keep an eye on your spoke tension and learn how to true your wheels and keep them that way.

Any pothole so big that it makes your wheel collapse will cause you to crash before that happens, so don't worry. For the most part, cheap wheels don't just implode suddenly. What happens is that they keep going out of true and then spokes start breaking. If that's not happening, just keep the wheels.

thanks a lot. i think im just going to order some 25 or 28mm ultragators to replace the bull**** nylon kenda tires that came stock.

how do i check spoke tension? is there a thread in the DIY thread?

thanks a lot. i think im just going to order some 25 or 28mm ultragators to replace the bull**** nylon kenda tires that came stock.

how do i check spoke tension? is there a thread in the DIY thread?

Search the Bike Mechanics subforum. There are hundreds of threads about spoke tension and truing wheels in there. Or head to Sheldon Brown's or Park Tools' websites. In a nutshell: If your spokes aren't tensioned enough (you can wiggle them around with your fingers) or evenly, bad things are more likely to happen to your wheel like warping and spoke breakage. Plus the wheel will feel "unsteady", which seems to be your problem.

As for frequent flats, check the tube and tire to see what keeps poking holes in your tube. It could be a too long spoke, it could be a misapplied rimstrip, it could be your crap tires getting cut up by road stuff, it could be you dont have the tires inflated to the max on their sidewall, it could be a defective tube, it could be debris or rubbing between the tube and tire, it could be a misapplied patch, it could be a loose or broken valve. Until you do some analysis of your problem, I can't tell you a solution.

Better tires will help both ride quality and add resistance to puncture. I think good tires are one of the first thing that should be upgraded on a stock bike, definitely not wheels.

Your stock wheels sound very strong. A 36h deep section double wall rim is almost the best you can do strength wise. Pricier rims will have a more efficient use of material but that normally just means they are lighter, not really stronger. If you still feel shaky on the bike check the entire bike for anything loose that might make it feel squirrelly. Whenever I have a loose headset, hub, or bottom bracket I immediately feel less confident on the bike.

Wow, this post turned out longer than I thought. Keep what you got, keep it in good working order, and ride the hell out of it.

nothing seems shakey, ive just gotten a few flats from almost nothing that seem to have come out of thin air.

i guess this post is kind of misdirected, but really helpful none the less. my lbs is closed for the winter and i kind of feel like they're a bunch of idiots in there anyway, so i dont really have a trustworthy source.

my lbs is closed for the winter

Where are you?

i just feel like what came stock is something that really should be swapped out sooner or later. also, i feel like im constantly getting flats but im not sure if its because of a pinch from the rim or if its just because the tires i have on now blow goats for quarters.

i just want to improve my ride so i feel more comfortable riding and stop feeling like i have to baby it when im out.

Think of it this way, you have (nearly) as much chance of taco-ing a top of the line rim/hub setup as you do an entry level wheelset, given that they are both laced comparably and have the same spoke counts. Now are you going to baby a set of open pros to dura ace's that cost you 350ish less than the stock wheelset? I would rather beat the hell out of a cheap wheelset and have a good time, than beat the hell out of a really nice wheelset, having an equally good time. Riding on roads you wont feel a difference, you'll feel a difference when you ride on a track maybe, but honestly, its a question of "do I want/need to spend those dollars?"

Where are you?

i lol'd

getting good tires will make a much bigger difference

Singurrlife, the wheels you have now could definitely stand an upgrade later on, but wear them out first. They will do a completely fine job of getting you around safely; they just might not stay true as long as a nicer wheelset, the rim surfaces, spokes and bearings may not last as long and they might not score as many weight weenie points. On any wheelset, cheap or expensive, you stay safe by keeping an eye on the areas around the spoke nipples for cracks, and by monitoring how the rim surfaces wear from braking. Your lbs wrench can tell you when your rim wear is getting a little sketchy, and at that point you get a new rim and spokes or just a new wheel. Besides that there's routine maintenance---wheel truing and repacking or replacing bearings. Learn to do that and just about any wheelset will work acceptably for you.

Like other posters say, getting good flat resistant tires like gatorskins, armadillos or hard cases is a much more cost efficient way to improve a cheap bike than getting a new wheelset. They will cost $60-80 for the set but it's money well spent. The reduction in flats over cheap oem road tires is really dramatic.

thanks a lot. i think im just going to order some 25 or 28mm ultragators to replace the bull**** nylon kenda tires that came stock.

how do i check spoke tension? is there a thread in the DIY thread?

You'll definitely benefit more from a good tire upgrade than from an upgrade to a more expensive wheel. As others have said, either check the spoke tension yourself, or take them to a shop and have them trued.

I've seen countless complaints about the Kilo TT wheels, but I have to wonder, given the typical Kilo buyer (new riders) how many people just rode them out-of-the-box without ever checking them out. I think this likely account for more instances of failure than anything having to do with their lack of quality.

Even so, a 36 spoke track wheel is going to be almost idiot proof. I got a wheelset for $100. It was one of those cheap Dimension hubs laced to a Velocity Aero rim.

I just put it on my bike and rode the crap out of it. After a while, I noticed that one or two of the spokes had completely de-tensioned. You could turn the nipple without a spoke wrench. However, the wheel had barely gone out of true. I just tightened the loose spoke, and gave the rest of the spokes a quarter of a turn, trued the wheel, and rode another 1000 miles without even thinking about it.

This was on a commuter bike where I often carry a heavy load on he rear rack. Oh, and I weigh over 200 pounds. And I ride over ugly railroad tracks and on crappy roads at least once a day.

Eventually, after wasting the threads on one side with an improperly installed cheap stamped steel cog, I decided to replace the hub. So I got a Godspeed hub. They are the same as Dimension, IRO and maybe Formula. The cliche "They're all made in the same factory in China" does indeed apply to many of the track hubs currently on the market. But in my opinion, it's a damn good hub for $49.

I took the wheel apart and rebuilt it one morning. It was my first wheelbuild that I would actually ride. I re-used the same spokes (not the most recommended procedure).

After 500 miles, it has stayed true as the day I built it.

One of the big benefits of SSFG is that you get a much stronger wheel than on a geared road bike. I was always popping spokes on my cheap road wheels. But I've abused the hell out of my cheap track wheels and had very few problems.

i just bought new wheels to replace my stock wheels. they are not as light as i could have gone. and they were way over budget. and my stock wheels are doing great. but i saw them and had to have them. for now they sit in my living room and bring me joy.

im looking to upgrade from the stock wheels and hubs that came on my kilo and i really dont want to pay an arm and a leg. i dont care about them being crazy colors or any of that crap, i just want something better than i have now. is there something else out there thats more cost efficient?

How much are the Formula/Aeroheads you're talking about? Do they have straight gauge or double butted spokes?

i just bought new wheels to replace my stock wheels. they are not as light as i could have gone. and they were way over budget. and my stock wheels are doing great. but i saw them and had to have them. for now they sit in my living room and bring me joy.

Weight is one of the most overrated aspects about a wheelset. Aerodynamics is much, much more important. But then again for 99.9% of this forum, the NJS stamp is most important.

I've seen countless complaints about the Kilo TT wheels, but I have to wonder, given the typical Kilo buyer (new riders) how many people just rode them out-of-the-box without ever checking them out. I think this likely account for more instances of failure than anything having to do with their lack of quality.

I agree.

Even so, a 36 spoke track wheel is going to be almost idiot proof. I got a wheelset for $100. It was one of those cheap Dimension hubs laced to a Velocity Aero rim.

I just put it on my bike and rode the crap out of it. After a while, I noticed that one or two of the spokes had completely de-tensioned. You could turn the nipple without a spoke wrench. However, the wheel had barely gone out of true.

Well I wouldn't exactly call dentesioned spokes on a wheel "idiot proof". It means is that the original wheel wasn't

1) tensioned properly
2) stress relieved

e.g wheels that were factory built that nobody ever checked, which is the majority of wheelsets out there

Weight is one of the most overrated aspects about a wheelset. Aerodynamics is much, much more important. But then again for 99.9% of this forum, the NJS stamp is most important.

Aerodynamic wheels are not important outside of competitive riding.

Have you looked at wind tunnel testing of both a bike and rider and bike with aero vs. non aero wheels? Until you hit and hold speeds that most of us never ever achive, aerodynamic wheels simply don't matter. And even then the difference is so small it only matters in competition.

With wattage output 250W aero wheels offer speed increase of .5%. That a a speed increase of .005 for those who prefer decimals.

Well, aeroheads and a basic strong IRO or Formula hub will be a good investment. Aeroheads are really light and still durable. You can find that exact same wheel build on my wife's white bike (click in my signature). I got her wheelset on ebay by a seller from wisconsin for a really low price. if you don't know what i'm talking about, PM me and i'll send u a link to her stuff. if it is, then I say YES get them (unbelievably good deal) and then put some 25mm gators on them. I just started riding 28mms but that won't fit in every fork out there, but 25mm will for sure and it will still be a bigger tire. There are even cheaper deals on 23mm gators (still good enough) through probikekit.com. I cant seem to find the gators, but they usually have them (and free shipping):
http://probikekit.com/display.php?cat=Continental%20Tyres

Dont be embarassed for wanting to upgrade your wheelset to a name-brand for no real reason. Everybody does that. I simply love to shop and buy stuff to upgrade my bikes. You're right to think your generic stock wheelset is cheap.I would swap them now. But if money is tight, just buy the tires for now. Trust gatorskins.

Weight is one of the most overrated aspects about a wheelset. Aerodynamics is much, much more important. But then again for 99.9% of this forum, the NJS stamp is most important.

Really, that depends on the application, and I would argue that both are largely irrelevant for the type of riding that goes on here. The most important aspect for riders on this forum should be durability, but sadly is often that the wheel have the requisite three or five spokes, or come in a spectrum of colors. NJS stamps were so 2007.

Really, that depends on the application, and I would argue that both are largely irrelevant for the type of riding that goes on here. The most important aspect for riders on this forum should be durability, but sadly is often that the wheel have the requisite three or five spokes. NJS stamps were so 2007.

Oh I totally agree with you.

I'm just lamenting the fact that the first comment out of every new wheelset is about it's weight which people constantly think is the determining factor in wheel performance. When in fact it's the complete opposite when you factor in aerodynamics.

Well I wouldn't exactly call dentesioned spokes on a wheel "idiot proof". It means is that the original wheel wasn't

1) tensioned properly
2) stress relieved

e.g wheels that were factory built that nobody ever checked, which is the majority of wheelsets out there

Considering that the wheel did not implode and only needed minor repairs, in spite of my abuse and lack of attention, I'd call that idiot proof.

Aerodynamic wheels are not important outside of competitive riding.

Have you looked at wind tunnel testing of both a bike and rider and bike with aero vs. non aero wheels? Until you hit and hold speeds that most of us never ever achive, aerodynamic wheels simply don't matter. And even then the difference is so small it only matters in competition.

With wattage output 250W aero wheels offer speed increase of .5%. That a a speed increase of .005 for those who prefer decimals.

For the sake of argument, let's hold you to your own context of ridership that your post is written about. If your claims are true, which they are then weight will hold 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005% speed increase.

Which is my point. Thanks.

Speed is not a defining metric in aerodynamics, it's wattage lost. 0.5% speed sounds insignificant until you look at the raw numbers of how many watts an aero wheelset absorbs over a non aero wheelset at speed.

For example:

http://accel23.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/02/72/10/Tests-Acheteur/base-de-donnees/aero_french.jpg

From zipp 404's to the r-sys that's an 15w difference. That is hardly ".5%"/1.25w @ 250w. Please stop trying to mislead people by making meaningless conversions in units. Yes 0.5% is 0.005. By that same metric, 2+2 also equals 4.

heres some wheels from that seller i talked about:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VELOCITY-DV-700C-BLACK-TRACK-WHEEL-SET-MSW_W0QQitemZ280205936774QQihZ018QQcategoryZ58099QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

you can offer 10% less and get them. i did that and they are great.

For the sake of argument, let's hold you to your own context of ridership that your post is written about. If your claims are true, which they are then weight will hold 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005% speed increase.

Which is my point. Thanks.



I wasn't arguing that wheel weight is important, just that aerodynamics of wheels don't matter for people like the OP.

You're right that weight is way over emphasized, but so are aerodynamics.



Speed is not a defining metric in aerodynamics, it's wattage lost. 0.5% speed sounds insignificant until you look at the raw numbers of how many watts an aero wheelset absorbs over a non aero wheelset at a speed

BIG CHART HERE

From zipp 404's to the r-sys that's an 15w difference. That is hardly ".5%"/1.25w @ 250w. Please stop trying to mislead people by making meaningless conversions in units. Yes 0.5% is 0.005. By that same metric, 2+2 also equals 4.

I thought it was clear that my .5%=.005 was me being a smartass. In any case, I fail to see how it is misleading. I was trying to highlight the irrelevance of aero wheels at the speeds most of us ride at.

Your chart doesn't mean dick because it assumes a speed (50km/h) unattainable for most of us to hit even briefly with street gearing, much less hold for an extended length of time. You do see in large letters at the top of the chart where is says that power lost is being measured at 50 kilos per hour, right? Or 31 mph for us backward people not on the metric system.

If you want misleading how about citing a chart with data points assuming a speed that most people aren't ever going to hit on their fixed gear unless they ride it off bridge.

When normal people start hitting and sticking 31mph on their bikes your big fancy french chart will mean something. Until then it's just more bike industry bs completely irrelevant to anyone can't qualify for Nationals.

Despite all that, your point about weight being overemphasized is solid.

Well I wouldn't exactly call dentesioned spokes on a wheel "idiot proof". It means is that the original wheel wasn't

1) tensioned properly
2) stress relieved

e.g wheels that were factory built that nobody ever checked, which is the majority of wheelsets out there

Exactly. They're idiot proof if you bacically have the wheel rebuilt. The only part of the wheelbuild done correctly was the lacing. Which is why they were so cheap.

I the three FG wheels I presently own, one I built myself. One came stock on a Raliegh Rush Hour and was a take-off. And the third was a cheap Dimension/Velocity combo.

The last two wheels, I just put on the bike and rode. Hardly touched either one for several hundred miles. So they were probably not tensioned properly by the robots that built them, and yet they stayed true.

All I can say is that a high spoke count, a strong, yet heavy, rim and the fact that it was a singlespeed wheel, meant that in spite of my abuse and not being very well built, they did their jobs quite well.

Out of curiosity, where did you find the aeroheads/IRO hub set?
I've been thinking about a set of those aeroheads but havent had a lot of luck finding them laced to a something like an IRO hub. The options I find pre-built seem limited for the aeroheads.
thanks.

Where are you?

new jersey. the people that own it also own another shop that caters to motocycles, so from what they tell me they focus on that shop in the winter more. they have a sign up saying to call for hours and i just dont feel like dealing with that.

i have a suspicion that the wheelset you are considering is the stock iro wheelset? if that isn't the case, my bad, but if it is the case then you should know that those rims aren't aeroheads as in velocity aeroheads. at least i don't think they are, although i've heard they used to be. this doesn't really matter though because they are pretty much the same rim as aeroheads, i think he just went with a knock off brand to save money.

edit: if that is the wheelset you're thinking of, i bent one of those rims a few months ago. but...any rim would have been bent after that crash. also bent the fork.

I am shocked at my new formula hub based wheels. It spins so smooth and rolls forever. Other than the lack of seals, it's solid. Loose bearing hubs should be serviced 1 or 2 times/yr anyway.

I am shocked at my new formula hub based wheels. It spins so smooth and rolls forever. Other than the lack of seals, it's solid. Loose bearing hubs should be serviced 1 or 2 times/yr anyway.

The big problem with the ball bearing Formulas is that they leave Formula very poorly adjusted. I've been shocked at how badly adjusted (too tight) they are when they get to me. If the wheelbuilder readjusts them before selling them they'll spin decently. Still, since I buy the hubs 100 sets at a time for wheelbuilds I choose the sealed bearing ones because readusting 200 hubs is a lot of extra labor.

I the three FG wheels I presently own, one I built myself. One came stock on a Raliegh Rush Hour and was a take-off. And the third was a cheap Dimension/Velocity combo.

The last two wheels, I just put on the bike and rode. Hardly touched either one for several hundred miles. So they were probably not tensioned properly by the robots that built them, and yet they stayed true.

All I can say is that a high spoke count, a strong, yet heavy, rim and the fact that it was a singlespeed wheel, meant that in spite of my abuse and not being very well built, they did their jobs quite well.

Let me just say that you're right and it is all about standards. You're right that a high spoke count and solid rim can mask a very sloppy wheelbuild. I regularly check the wheels that come into my shop and almost always they're only at 3/4 of the recommended spoke tension and the tension among spokes varies by about 40%. This is includes wheels "handbuilt" (handbuilt don't mean jack if it isn't done right) at various shops who sell on the internet. They're mostly true, although not if they've been used quite a bit without maintenance.

But if the job is done right the wheel won't just stay true for several hundred miles. It'll stay true for several thousand and the your rim or hub will fail from use before spokes break, detension, or the wheel needs anything but very minor truing, if any at all.

But I make a large chunk of my living building wheels, have lots of randonneur customers, and hate half-assedness, so I have a different view of what is acceptable on a wheelbuild.