Living Car Free - anti-bike backlash?

This probably belongs more properly in A&S, but the people here tend to be more balanced, so here it is:

Like a few other areas, Seattle has experienced a pretty noticable increase in the numbers of bicyclists lately. There are a lot more bikes on the roads than there used to be, and local governments have been pretty enthusiastic about integrating bicycles into their transportation plans, mostly as a way to reduce congestion and emissions. Civic leaders have been taking a hard look at what has been done in Portland, Amsterdam and Copenhagen. Our one major MUP is being slowly expanded, and several miles of new bike lanes have already been added, and many more are planned. All of which are good things, IMO. At the same time, I've recently begun to notice a palpable increase in hostility towards bicyclists by the non-cycling public. During the last ten days alone, I've had several people, pedestrians and motorists, yell anti-bicycle insults at me for no other reason than the fact that I was riding a bike on the street, and I'm a pretty cautious, law-abiding rider; I'm not a Critical Mass type by any stretch of the imagination. I know a few members of the Fremont Chamber of Commerce, and they're quite proud of the fact that they were able to partially block the creation of a bike lane on Stone Way, and are openly discussing attempts to have the bike lane that was created removed again. This weekend, a car-driving good friend of mine complained about bike lanes, and about bicylists in general, and his level of hostility was kind of shocking; he used to be fairly tolerant of bicyclists, but now that there are a lot more of them, and some arterials have been narrowed from four lanes to two to accommodate bike lanes, he's incensed, and has vowed to vote against bicycle-friendly politicians from now on. He's particularly infuriated by cyclists who take the lane; he sees this as evidence that cylists are "full of themselves," and that they're engaging in some passive-aggressive tactic designed to slow motorists' progress.

Of course, I'm not at all in agreement with anyone who shouts epithets at cyclists, lobbies to block bike lanes just because they think they can, or who is totally pissed off just because he has to maneuver around a cyclist on surface streets once in a while. I am concerned, though, that there appears to be an increasing public level of frustration with cyclists as a result of there being more of them. The message I get from my non-cycling acquaintances is that they think bicylists are a selfish, self-involved, somewhat silly interest group, a bunch of enthusiasts who are willing to spend a lot of public money to establish an infrastructure and/or culture that will only benefit the few, slow everyone else down needlessly, and do little or nothing to improve the transportation picture generally. Among other things, I think it's significant that very few young adults have anything to do with the increase in bicycle use. In short, there are a lot of increasingly pissed off people out there, and they're pissed off because bicyclists and bicycle advocates have apparently done a poor job of getting their message out. (E.g., bicyclists take the lane because they care about survival, not establishing their "dominance.") We need to do much better; any thoughts?

The message I get from my non-cycling acquaintances is that they think bicylists are a selfish, self-involved, somewhat silly interest group, a bunch of enthusiasts who are willing to spend a lot of public money to establish an infrastructure and/or culture that will only benefit the few, slow everyone else down needlessly, and do little or nothing to improve the transportation picture generally.

Well, in the case of the people who call themselves "advocates", the message is pretty much spot on. Even the majority of utility cyclists have little more than disdain for "advocates" who promote "facilities" that benefit relatively few cyclists in a relatively small area (the ones that the silent majority of cyclists generally avoid like the plague), or who engage in exercises like critical mass or nude bike rides. I've said this before, but it's worth repeating here. Cycling as an activity needs to separate itself from the various leftist political agendas that follow it around.

It's all well and good to talk about global warming, peak oil, foreign oil dependence, David Hicks, Bush and all the other issues that people go on about. They may well all be valid issues in and of themselves, but the fact is, they have virtually nothing to do with cycling. In a nutshell, "advocates" have to stop trying to actively promote cyclists as a bunch of freaks risking life and limb to "save the world", because all that really does is alienate people.

Oh yeah, and a few training courses to educate cyclists in the proper and lawful use of public roadways wouldn't hurt either.

Eh, who cares what they think? Soon nobody will drive, whether they want to or not.

Well, I think that a lot of drivers see their car and their lifestyle as under attack. They're getting panicky.

As bicyclists, we represent what low a fate they may be dragged down to. We are also yet another impediment on the highway. When they see us, not only do they have to go around us, but we bring up unpleasant thoughts about how much their habit is costing them.

They are also heavily taxed and mistakenly think that their gas taxes pay for highways and see anything that goes to bike paths as their hard earned money paying for frivolous extras.

I'm not sure that directly, there is much that we can do other than being good cyclists and active bicycle advocates. We also need to stay the course in pursuing bike facilities. We know that they are needed and will be needed. Most motorists are so busy being defensive that they are not really looking towards the future.

All we can do is to be true to what we think will be the best path to the future.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

I don't blame the car drivers for being unhappy. They are a dying breed and know it.
If I rode the car, and suddenly a road I used went from 4 to 2 lanes needlessly, I'd be angry too. I would think to myself "what is this bike lane for, they ride on thr real road everywhere else, why cut down this road for them" and I'd be right. All bike lanes do is cut downthe usefulness of a road- for all users.
They are unhappy because of gas prices, car prices, traffic, and then the road suddenly shrinks.

Well, I think that a lot of drivers see their car and their lifestyle as under attack. They're getting panicky.

As bicyclists, we represent what low a fate they may be dragged down to. We are also yet another impediment on the highway. When they see us, not only do they have to go around us, but we bring up unpleasant thoughts about how much their habit is costing them.

They are also heavily taxed and mistakenly think that their gas taxes pay for highways and see anything that goes to bike paths as their hard earned money paying for frivolous extras.

I'm not sure that directly, there is much that we can do other than being good cyclists and active bicycle advocates. We also need to stay the course in pursuing bike facilities. We know that they are needed and will be needed. Most motorists are so busy being defensive that they are not really looking towards the future.

All we can do is to be true to what we think will be the best path to the future.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi

Excellent post. I believe this to be true also. I also think that we are an easy target for venting of one's frustrations.

In general, I think a lot of people are unhappy and frustrated with the status quo. There are dire predictions about the economy, the environment, society, etc. And people are subjected to, on a daily basis, toxic and superficial crap from the media. And I honestly don't think that the majority of people can filter out this needless hysteria and fluff.

Granted there are important issues in the world that need addressing. But we have to make sure our own houses are in order (mentallly, physically, emotionally and spiritually) before we can attempt to achieve anything else.

That being said, this is an exciting time to be alive. I love Gandhi quotes, so here's another.

We must be the change that we wish to see in the world.

He's particularly infuriated by cyclists who take the lane; he sees this as evidence that cylists are "full of themselves," and that they're engaging in some passive-aggressive tactic designed to slow motorists' progress.

Most drivers I know view taking the lane in a similar way. If they understand *why* the biker is taking the lane, they get a lot less upset. It makes a lot more sense when you realize that taking the lane makes the biker easier to see and (a little) more predictable. If you're in an area with terrible pedestrian facilities, you'll see similar anger towards anyone who dares to walk, even if they're doing so safely and legally.

Many ordinary drivers find bikers scary because they're hard to see and unpredictable. I can understand this, since I've had a couple near misses with other bikers myself. Even when I'm *looking* for bikes, I'll often miss seeing them. And it drives me batty when someone runs a stop sign or a red light. Since most of my biking and walking is near the University, I see all kinds of bikers, pedestrians *and* drivers run red.

I find drivers are a lot more receptive when I point out my biggest concern is pedestrian safety. Pedestrians are harder to see and even more unpredictable than bikers. If roads are built to work well for them, the roads tend to be safer for bikers as well. So it's a win for everyone, since even a dedicated car driver will walk sometimes.

Riding home Friday I passed two teenagers who were on the sidewalk. As I was passing one said to the other: "I hate cyclists"

I've never heard any negative comments about cycling from anyone I know.

Al

Many ordinary drivers find bikers scary because they're hard to see and unpredictable. I can understand this, since I've had a couple near misses with other bikers myself. Even when I'm *looking* for bikes, I'll often miss seeing them.


You're just perpetuating the myth. People are unpredictable, and it doesn't matter if they're on a bike, in a car, or walking. If you ride much, I'm sure you've had more than a couple near misses with cars as well.

There's a well understood hierarchy on the road and being at the bottom of it makes you insignificant in the eyes of most; They literally look down upon you, and there's no place for positive interaction from there...

Riding home Friday I passed two teenagers who were on the sidewalk. As I was passing one said to the other: "I hate cyclists"

I've never heard any negative comments about cycling from anyone I know.

Al

Yea, most people will wait until your back is turned.

Great example of why there needs to be more driver education.

You're just perpetuating the myth. People are unpredictable, and it doesn't matter if they're on a bike, in a car, or walking. If you ride much, I'm sure you've had more than a couple near misses with cars as well.

There's a well understood hierarchy on the road and being at the bottom of it makes you insignificant in the eyes of most; They literally look down upon you, and there's no place for positive interaction from there...

Calling my personal experience a "myth" is less than helpful, since you're now telling me I've imagined all the near misses I've had. Since I know that I didn't imagine them, I'm now tempted to classify you as an idiot. I find it is more useful to listen to the other person and accept that their experiences are real. Then if I offer a suggestion or explanation, the other person is more likely to listen.

Since I have a hard time seeing cyclists whether I'm biking or walking (I haven't driven in about 3 years, so I do not have current data on driving), I do not feel your hierarchy theory is a good and valid one. I am much more likely to have trouble seeing a cyclist when I need to use my peripheral vision. Since I need -8.5 diopters of correction, I don't *have* anything approaching normal peripheral vision. I (oddly enough) have lots of trouble with cars and pedestrians in the same circumstances where cyclists give me trouble. I am also more likely to have trouble in low light conditions. Rain, fog, and twilight all give me fits. If I chose to ignore these problems, I'd be much more likely to cause accidents. Instead, I pay close attention in situations where my disability is likely to cause trouble. Sometimes, I end up with a close call anyway.

If I tell someone else "oh, cyclists are easy to see", I'd be lying. Of course, I don't go telling people "oh, cars are easy to see" or "pedestrians are easy to see" either. I've got enough vision trouble that they'd *all* be lies :P. Instead, I stick with reality, where I don't see very well and I have to be proactive so it doesn't cause serious trouble.

I'm also slow, clumsy, have a lousy sense of balance and am easily distracted. Chances are good that if there's a mistake one can make on the road, I've made it. So if I can use the roads safely, chances are that almost anyone can. But it does take a lot of caution and awareness that I *do* make mistakes.

Calling my personal experience a "myth" is less than helpful, since you're now telling me I've imagined all the near misses I've had. Since I know that I didn't imagine them, I'm now tempted to classify you as an idiot. I find it is more useful to listen to the other person and accept that their experiences are real. Then if I offer a suggestion or explanation, the other person is more likely to listen.


Fine, I'm an idiot, but when I hear a statement like "cyclists are unpredictable", there is an inherent implication that they're MORE unpredictable than some other standard. As I said before, if you search your experience, I doubt that you will find cyclists more unpredictable than people in any other activity.

...since even a dedicated car driver will walk sometimes.

Are you sure about that? I mean yes, they walk from their cars to a store entrance, or to the door of their house, etc. But most people I know go out of their way to avoid walking. I see people drive to their mailboxes on a regular basis for cying out loud. Where I work we have two seperate warehouses, and the owner bought a golf cart so people wouldn't have to walk back and forth. The distance is less than 200 feet, I kid you not.

The "activist" crowd has never appealed much to me. CM is absurd, and frankly a lot of the cyclists out there *ARE* self absorbed jerks. Or rather packs o' jerks. I just ride.

Are you sure about that? I mean yes, they walk from their cars to a store entrance, or to the door of their house, etc. But most people I know go out of their way to avoid walking. I see people drive to their mailboxes on a regular basis for cying out loud. Where I work we have two seperate warehouses, and the owner bought a golf cart so people wouldn't have to walk back and forth. The distance is less than 200 feet, I kid you not.
Before I moved to N. America, I visited about 25-30 years ago, I distinctly remember walking to the store through the subdivision my sister lived in, a distance of, oh, 1/3 mile? People looked at us as if to say, "What the hell are you doing?"
Nice day, no big load to bring back, we were just thinking "WTH?"

To return to the original post, on my commute, I start and end with about 2-3 miles of road, the rest is MUP. The first bit
in the morning is a straight downhill run, it should be no problem, there is no way in hell I'm in anyone's way because I can get to the lights before they change, on the last bit before work, it's narrow, has a nasty blind curve, and there no way for me to get out of their way. Guess which one I was worried about? Guess which one is a problem? Don't ask me why.

I'm wondering, though: if more people are cycling, why is there more hostility? I wouldn't have expected this. I've always been of the opinion that more cyclists = more acceptance. Some here have suggested it's the first realization of a declining motor culture that their days are numbered, but I don't think so. If even pedestrians are telling cyclists to F*** off, there must be something else going on. I think it's a combination of a few things:

1. Increased congestion is making everyone cranky, regardless of their mode of trnsport;
2. Drivers are irritated, because now, in addtion to all the other stuff they've had to deal with, they have to deal with a bunch of 15 mph vehicles every time they turn around (I can understand, but am not sympathetic here);
3. Many cyclists don't know the first thing about riding in traffic, and as a result of their ignorance they irritate other road users (including pedestrians) and potentially put themselves and others at risk.
4. Critical Mass and other "advocacy groups," though they mean well, do a really good job of alienating non-cyclists.

We don't have any control over 1 & 2, but we do have a certain amount of influence over 3 & 4.

People are unpredictable, and it doesn't matter if they're on a bike, in a car, or walking.
This is true. However, I may be perpetuating the myth of the unpredictiable cyclist, when I sporadically weave in traffic. And most of you know why one would purposely do this. The unpredictable driver, will now be very predictable, and give you lots, or at least more, room; rather than brush past you at a dangerously, high rate of speed. At least that is my experience almost all of the time.

Is that wrong? Is it bad cycling behaviour? Maybe, but I've never had a driver yell at me yet for doing it, yet. I should say that I only do that on certain streets; and I only do it when they're well enough behind to either remain back until it's safe to change lanes, or change lanes before they reach me.

That being said, I don't blow stop signs, or red lights, or ride on sidewalks (usually), or what I deem to be, dangerous cycling behaviour. Also, I use cycling-designated streets here, in Vancouver, when it is practical for me.


There's a well understood hierarchy on the road and being at the bottom of it makes you insignificant in the eyes of most; They literally look down upon you, and there's no place for positive interaction from there...

Though this may be the case in some cities, I find it's a sweeping generalization. And if this is the case in most cities, it's not a hierarchy of the road; but a disfunctional symptom of society. As hard as it is to do, when someone (driver or pedestrian) makes a derogatory remark - smile and wave, blow kisses, or whatever; just diffuse the situation. It will be healthier for you, and it will hopefully dispell the myth that all cyclists are rude and inconsiderate.

This isn't surprising. Societies are resistant to change, especially change which inconveniences them for reasons they cannot understand. When forces out of someone's control conspire to inflict change upon him, the frustration and hostility that he is feeling is expelled towards the first scapegoat available to him. In the case of most frustrated motorists, commuter cyclists are the scapegoat.

There is a simple way to alleviate this frustration: Education.

Educate motorists about the growing number of cyclists on the road and the problems caused by their not having a "safe" lane to ride in. Illustrate how worse off they would be were it not for these new facilities. Encourage tolerance and humanity, environmental conscientiousness and compassion. A PR clip on the local FOX affiliate and a couple of well-designed billboards would go a long way towards eliminating any potential backlash.

It will get much worse. Car culture will soon be in a struggle for its life. It will search for scapegoats and lash out against its perceived enemies. I wouldn't be surprised to see, in the next few years, scattered local efforts to completely legislate bicycles off the road.

Don't be ridiculous. 99.9% of industrialized citizens still drive everywhere, and their trusty car companies are engineering solutions for pesky problems like peak oil and emerging Asian markets. Thinking that bicycles will be legislated off the road is letting your reason fall victim to a persecution complex.

It will get much worse...

I'm afraid it will, too. There's far too much money being made via the oil infrastructure, and far too convenient a "lifestyle" being sold to far too many people--people who aren't inclined to change readily anyway (particularly when you're talking about their cushy way of life). They might have to think in different ways and, Heaven forbid, actually act differently.

The unspoken thought might be, "Maybe if I crush that cyclist, it'll just go away," or like my neighbor angrily screamed at me yesterday (as she somehow restrained herself from bulldozing me while we were coming into "our" development), "GET OFF DA ROAD! YOU AIN'T NO CAR!"

That kind of thing is still the exception right now. But if enough people feel threatened enough, it could easily become the rule.

Thinking that bicycles will be legislated off the road is letting your reason fall victim to a persecution complex.

I don't think so; Platy is usually a pretty inciteful guy. He didn't say that the efforts would get anywhere, but I agree that it is a possibility in scattered localities. Why not; around here they tried to pass legislation against certain styles of pants, and South Pasadena just declared itself to be a no-cussing zone for a week. :rolleyes: It's a wacky world.

It's odd, but up here on the East Hill traffic never bothers me. There are not many bikes lanes where I ride, either. It's actually easier now than a few years ago.

East Hill

I'm one of few people riding on the road (in a bike lane) where I work. I see a few others, but not many. If you put 100/200 other cyclists on the road during the commute hours, I can guarantee automobile drivers would flip. There is only one section where the bike lane disappears and I need to ride on the road. For the most part, automobile drivers are cool with one cyclist. I may slow down at most 20 cars during the section with no bike lane. But if 100/200 cyclist used that same section of road with no bike lane during commute hours it would be a problem.
I wish there was a small barrier between bike lanes and roads. Something that could be driven over by a car and carefully ridden over by a cyclist. Just a little warning to drivers and cyclist. I don't think putting a cement curb is the right thing to do, but something that still allows access to the bike lane and road for cyclists and automobiles.
Car culture, I believe, will not die. I agree with Platy: there will be some problems between cyclist and automobiles, but for the most part many places haven't reach the point where cyclist are causing problems (mentioned above). Cities with a rich bike culture will be the first to have the issues, but I do not see bikes being kicked off the road. As gas,people,cars goes up more people will start riding bikes or looking for alternatives. Oil is evil...

Of course, I'm not at all in agreement with anyone who shouts epithets at cyclists, lobbies to block bike lanes just because they think they can, or who is totally pissed off just because he has to maneuver around a cyclist on surface streets once in a while. I am concerned, though, that there appears to be an increasing public level of frustration with cyclists as a result of there being more of them. The message I get from my non-cycling acquaintances is that they think bicylists are a selfish, self-involved, somewhat silly interest group, a bunch of enthusiasts who are willing to spend a lot of public money to establish an infrastructure and/or culture that will only benefit the few, slow everyone else down needlessly, and do little or nothing to improve the transportation picture generally. Among other things, I think it's significant that very few young adults have anything to do with the increase in bicycle use. In short, there are a lot of increasingly pissed off people out there, and they're pissed off because bicyclists and bicycle advocates have apparently done a poor job of getting their message out. (E.g., bicyclists take the lane because they care about survival, not establishing their "dominance.") We need to do much better; any thoughts?

I think there is a lot of frustration on the part of motorists that probably have more to do with fuel prices than anything else, and they get angry with anything or anyone that gets in their way. Perhaps also they resent bicyclists in that there may be a subconscious idea that in the long run we may all have to get off of fossil fuels in one way or another, and I wonder if they are fighting this change.

1. Increased congestion is making everyone cranky, regardless of their mode of trnsport;
2. Drivers are irritated, because now, in addtion to all the other stuff they've had to deal with, they have to deal with a bunch of 15 mph vehicles every time they turn around (I can understand, but am not sympathetic here);

The simple fact is, we're living in a society that is getting more and more aggresive every day. Just look at the way drivers are treating each other. Only recently a pedestrian in this city was bashed for supposedly taking "too long" to cross a pedestrian crossing. This is just something that's a function of the society we live in, and we have only two options here: we either learn to deal with it, or move somewhere else.


3. Many cyclists don't know the first thing about riding in traffic, and as a result of their ignorance they irritate other road users (including pedestrians) and potentially put themselves and others at risk.
4. Critical Mass and other "advocacy groups," though they mean well, do a really good job of alienating non-cyclists.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that most "advocacy" these days isn't about cycling, period. Critical mass is not about cycling, period. It may have been well intentioned to begin with, but the fact is it's been taken over by rent-a-crowd juveniles who just want to partake in a "protest" or an act of "civil disobedience", so they can all congregate at a coffee shop later and talk about how they got arrested.

Most "advocacy" these days is just whining, or arguing back and forth for hours online because there isn't enough work to fill a "12-hour work day". Even those that do get involved on a more "hands-on" level are inherently selfish. They talk up wanting to "represent all cyclists" and so on, but are really just concerned with getting themselves a quiet little path in the middle of nowhere away from cars. If you don't believe me, just look at how they react whenever someone tries to share their path. Or better yet, try to get them to act on something that doesn't involve a bike path -- you'll see they'll put up token resistance, but as soon as a local government authority promises to build them a path, they'll quieten down quick smart.

Transportation is always a turf war, so it doesn't surprise me that cagers get more agitated and agressive when they encounter more bikes on the road Actually, I think cyclists are also getting more agressive. A "motorist" just blew by me honking his horn, then ran a red light and almost hit 3 peds after blaring his horn at them too. I caught up with him and loudly told him my own opinion--something I probably wouldn't have done a few years ago.

To put it in historical perspective, automobiles were just as hated when they first started getting popular. A lot of obnoxious laws were passed. For example, in England (IIRC) cars driving after dark had to be preceded by a person on foot waving a lantern. These laws and attitudes didn't slow down the growing popularity of cars, and the current backlash against bikes probably won't have much effect on us either.

The more I think about it, the less I like Bicycle Lanes. Motorists need to be taught respect and to share the road. The three-foot passing law should be mandated in all states.
I brought up this question a while back: Aren't there a number of different kinds of bicycle lanes?

1) a slow lane for climbing a hill,

2) a fast lane for bikes to pass cars in downtown traffic-

(The two are complete opposites and a mutual contradiction, are they not?)

3) a continuous Bicycle Lane the whole length of the road, and

4) Short segments of road widening, just where there are "Choke Points" now, like on curves, or on a main road, when and where there are no back-roads to use as an alternate, e.g.: Between sub-divisions. You know what I mean? Sometimes you can ride back roads through a residential area, but only within any or each sub-division. Then there's a stretch of busy County or State road that you have to ride on for just-one block before you can get to the next sub-division. This would save the lives of many children, even if the Bike Lane is just a five foot wide sidewalk (with existing wheelchair ramps).

As for 4 lane roads being narrowed into two lanes, I'm against it. Sensible drivers (90+% of them) use the left lane of a four-lane road when passing bicycles. Apply the three-foot passing law.

i was riding a bike on the sidewalk of a very narrow street--mainly because this is a wide sidewalk for bikes, joggers, etc. and i'm not about to get run off the road...

some guy intentionally wandered into my path as i approached him until i actually had to stop.

he came up to me and shouted "sidewalk!!!"

...

i almost kicked his @ss.

i was riding a bike on the sidewalk of a very narrow street--mainly because this is a wide sidewalk for bikes, joggers, etc. and i'm not about to get run off the road...

some guy intentionally wandered into my path as i approached him until i actually had to stop.

he came up to me and shouted "sidewalk!!!"

...

i almost kicked his @ss.


I'm not sure... you seemed a little slow on the whole sidewalk thing. He might have drug you back out in the street before you understood what was going on.

these are bike trails, sidewalks, etc. the city builds on the sides of the narrower roads that don't have bike lanes.

i was riding a bike on the sidewalk of a very narrow street--mainly because this is a wide sidewalk for bikes, joggers, etc. and i'm not about to get run off the road...

some guy intentionally wandered into my path as i approached him until i actually had to stop.

he came up to me and shouted "sidewalk!!!"

...

i almost kicked his @ss.
There is one short 4 block stretch on my commute where I ride on the sidewalk.
It's the only place I do, it's pretty steep uphill, the road going up is 2 lanes, but,
at this point the lanes are narrow, and when I get there, the traffic is horrible.
Pedestrians are few and far between, if I do meet one, I give them lots of room, even
stopping if needed, say for a pushchair. It's against the law but have had no problems,
though one time I found 2 police officers taking pictures for some accident investigation,
they didn't say a word and barely glanced at me. It just seems to me to be the best
option under the circumstances, what else to do? Take the lane at 10 mph? crawl in
the gutter and get passed continuously? The drivers on this stretch are not in a very
good mood when they get to here.

i was riding a bike on the sidewalk of a very narrow street--mainly because this is a wide sidewalk for bikes, joggers, etc. and i'm not about to get run off the road...

some guy intentionally wandered into my path as i approached him until i actually had to stop.

he came up to me and shouted "sidewalk!!!"

...

i almost kicked his @ss.

I'd have to side with the pedestrian on this one. I mean, we clamour all the time for our right to ride on the road. Let's just stay there, dammit, and leave sidewalks to pedestrians. And don't even think about kicking a pedestrian's a**. Yes, he displayed a certain lack of social skills, but sidewalks are designed for people who are, in fact, walking.

There is one short 4 block stretch on my commute where I ride on the sidewalk...It's the only place I do, it's pretty steep uphill, the road going up is 2 lanes, but,
at this point the lanes are narrow, and when I get there, the traffic is horrible.

It's against the law.

Steep uphill, heavy traffic, illegal to be on the sidewalk. Yes that describes part of my commute. But I also think that if bicyclists are demanding their section of the road, that they have a responsibility to be consistent and use the road.

I'm not sure... you seemed a little slow on the whole sidewalk thing. He might have drug you back out in the street before you understood what was going on.

Normally I'd agree, but check your legislation again. In my jurisdiction at least, it's perfectly legal to ride on the footpath/sidewalk. I wouldn't say that I recommend it, or do it all that often, but I'm not about to start criticising people who take advantage of it (besides, it means they're out of my way when I ride on the road :) ).

i was riding a bike on the sidewalk of a very narrow street--mainly because this is a wide sidewalk for bikes, joggers, etc. and i'm not about to get run off the road...

some guy intentionally wandered into my path as i approached him until i actually had to stop.

he came up to me and shouted "sidewalk!!!"

...

i almost kicked his @ss.

Strange. Around here it's usually the cagers yelling at the cyclists to get on the sidewalk. I usually say "Side-what?" I don't think they get my point very often.

Most of the cyclists here ride on the sidewalk, even though it's against the law in business districts. It really annoys me when I'm walking--especially in the winter when these sidewalk cyclists sneak up behind peds, then expect them to step into the snow or mud so the precious cyclist can pass at a good clip.

Don't ride your damn bike on the side walk when pedestrians are present. Whether legal or not, it's rude and dangerous. If you have to be on the sidewalk, get off your bike and push it.

(BTW, while I'm on a rant, how about using your shift key once in a while? This is a good post, but it would be easier to read if you followed the "law"--that is, forum guidelines as well as rules of English grammar. Thanks! :))

This probably belongs more properly in A&S, but the people here tend to be more balanced, so here it is:

Like a few other areas, Seattle has experienced a pretty noticable increase in the numbers of bicyclists lately. There are a lot more bikes on the roads than there used to be, and local governments have been pretty enthusiastic about integrating bicycles into their transportation plans, mostly as a way to reduce congestion and emissions. Civic leaders have been taking a hard look at what has been done in Portland, Amsterdam and Copenhagen. Our one major MUP is being slowly expanded, and several miles of new bike lanes have already been added, and many more are planned. All of which are good things, IMO. At the same time, I've recently begun to notice a palpable increase in hostility towards bicyclists by the non-cycling public. During the last ten days alone, I've had several people, pedestrians and motorists, yell anti-bicycle insults at me for no other reason than the fact that I was riding a bike on the street, and I'm a pretty cautious, law-abiding rider; I'm not a Critical Mass type by any stretch of the imagination. I know a few members of the Fremont Chamber of Commerce, and they're quite proud of the fact that they were able to partially block the creation of a bike lane on Stone Way, and are openly discussing attempts to have the bike lane that was created removed again. This weekend, a car-driving good friend of mine complained about bike lanes, and about bicylists in general, and his level of hostility was kind of shocking; he used to be fairly tolerant of bicyclists, but now that there are a lot more of them, and some arterials have been narrowed from four lanes to two to accommodate bike lanes, he's incensed, and has vowed to vote against bicycle-friendly politicians from now on. He's particularly infuriated by cyclists who take the lane; he sees this as evidence that cylists are "full of themselves," and that they're engaging in some passive-aggressive tactic designed to slow motorists' progress.

Of course, I'm not at all in agreement with anyone who shouts epithets at cyclists, lobbies to block bike lanes just because they think they can, or who is totally pissed off just because he has to maneuver around a cyclist on surface streets once in a while. I am concerned, though, that there appears to be an increasing public level of frustration with cyclists as a result of there being more of them. The message I get from my non-cycling acquaintances is that they think bicylists are a selfish, self-involved, somewhat silly interest group, a bunch of enthusiasts who are willing to spend a lot of public money to establish an infrastructure and/or culture that will only benefit the few, slow everyone else down needlessly, and do little or nothing to improve the transportation picture generally. Among other things, I think it's significant that very few young adults have anything to do with the increase in bicycle use. In short, there are a lot of increasingly pissed off people out there, and they're pissed off because bicyclists and bicycle advocates have apparently done a poor job of getting their message out. (E.g., bicyclists take the lane because they care about survival, not establishing their "dominance.") We need to do much better; any thoughts?


The following isn't directed at anyone in particular.

From the attitude that spews from a lot of bike blogs I read, and from threads on this forum, I don't doubt that there is a lot of passive aggressive purposeful motorist slowing. I've been in conversations with other bicyclists and it's often sickening that the first thing that conversation turns to is car bashing/car driving people bashing etc etc.
I've got news for bike riding people - this kind of talk, self righteous, martyrdom, patting ones self on the back attitude, disdain for anybody who drives a car does NOTHING to help getting more bikes out there. It's hurting the cause folks. Once in a while I'll read in this forum and be turned off by bicyclists. I'm a fan of bicycling, I'm a fan of people that are car free, I'm not a fan of the holier than thou attitude that seems to follow along with(not in all cases of course).
Sure there's lots of jerks driving- does that mean everyone who drives is a jerk? Quit with all the negativity- people who complain all the time don't come across as happy and enjoying life. When all you see from bike blogs and bike forums is negativity(hate) towards car "people" it doesn't look like cycling is enjoyable. It looks like a bunch of self righteous crybabies, and who really wants to join that crowd?

What to do? Stop the constant complaining for one. Knock it off with the "advocacy" groups whose tactics show nothing more than a desire to cause trouble and aggression. Show that cycling is fun(it is you know), instead of a constant battle with motorists, "cagers" etc etc. Smile, be happy, wave to people

One of the only times you'll ever see me rant. Now back to love, peace and happiness :D

I want to bring up the subject of Mike Savage, and his radio talk show "The Savage Nation". I've listened to this guy and sometimes he mentions that he took a bicycle ride earlier in the day. Yet other-times, he bashes bicyclists "in spandex tights" for blocking traffic.

Michael Savage also says exercise is good, but not strenuous exercise. He doesn't believe in running out-of-breath. You would have to listen to him a lot, to hear both-sides-of-the-coin.
He's on like 433 radio stations nationwide.

I'm afraid though, that people hear radio when they are driving in their cars, and there could be some anti-bike backlash because of him. It would be ironic if he got hit by a car, then he'd be singing a different tune.

But In a way , I agree. There are times when a bicycle should let a car go by. Of course, I didn't believe this when I was younger, and more into training for races.
My attitude then was "F___ them, if the County can't afford a velodrome , I have to train in the roads.!"

Now I'm over forty, and I don't think I'll ever race again. I ride to control my weight now. I weighed 160 twenty years ago, today I weigh 270.

Strange. Around here it's usually the cagers yelling at the cyclists to get on the sidewalk. I usually say "Side-what?" I don't think they get my point very often.

Most of the cyclists here ride on the sidewalk, even though it's against the law in business districts. It really annoys me when I'm walking--especially in the winter when these sidewalk cyclists sneak up behind peds, then expect them to step into the snow or mud so the precious cyclist can pass at a good clip.

Don't ride your bike on the side walk when pedestrians are present. Whether legal or not, it's rude and dangerous. If you have to be on the sidewalk, get off your bike and push it.

(BTW, while I'm on a rant, how about using your shift key once in a while? This is a good post, but it would be easier to read if you followed the "law"--that is, forum guidelines as well as rules of English grammar. Thanks! :))

nah, thanks. mah grammer is t3h best.

liek i says, when theres no bike lane, and theres a ten foot wide lane for cyclists and joggers, ill take my chances with the pedestrians rather than t3h cars.

i really think it's dangerous to buzz past someone who's facing you with about four to five feet to spare.

kthxbai.

Personal insults removed by forum administrator.

The following isn't directed at anyone in particular.

From the attitude that spews from a lot of bike blogs I read, and from threads on this forum, I don't doubt that there is a lot of passive aggressive purposeful motorist slowing. I've been in conversations with other bicyclists and it's often sickening that the first thing that conversation turns to is car bashing/car driving people bashing etc etc.
I've got news for bike riding people - this kind of talk, self righteous, martyrdom, patting ones self on the back attitude, disdain for anybody who drives a car does NOTHING to help getting more bikes out there. It's hurting the cause folks. Once in a while I'll read in this forum and be turned off by bicyclists. I'm a fan of bicycling, I'm a fan of people that are car free, I'm not a fan of the holier than thou attitude that seems to follow along with(not in all cases of course).
Sure there's lots of jerks driving- does that mean everyone who drives is a jerk? Quit with all the negativity- people who complain all the time don't come across as happy and enjoying life. When all you see from bike blogs and bike forums is negativity(hate) towards car "people" it doesn't look like cycling is enjoyable. It looks like a bunch of self righteous crybabies, and who really wants to join that crowd?

What to do? Stop the constant complaining for one. Knock it off with the "advocacy" groups whose tactics show nothing more than a desire to cause trouble and aggression. Show that cycling is fun(it is you know), instead of a constant battle with motorists, "cagers" etc etc. Smile, be happy, wave to people

One of the only times you'll ever see me rant. Now back to love, peace and happiness :D

+0.95. I fully agree with most of what you've said. I totally agree that a car-bashing attitude is very counter-productive, especially given the fact that 99% of everyone in North America drives everywhere they go; it's like being a vegan, going to a megachurch picnic in Kentucky, and being totally pissed off because everyone there is eating ribs. I also agree that some cyclists need to stop being so grim (I had to grin a bit when you mentioned that part, because it's so true in some cases). I don't agree that all everyone does on this forum is complain all the time. There is certainly a lot of that, but compared to other forums on this site, it's not so bad. And if you've ever looked at any message boards of drivers' comments about cyclists, you'll know that many of those are positively homicidal. Also, there are no cyclists who purposely slow car traffic just to make a point, unless they're part of of a Critical Mass ride, and there's really nothing to do there except to put as much distance as possible between CM'ers and normal people who ride bicycles for adult reasons.

When I drive a car, my progress is impeded by other motorists a zillion times more often than by cyclists. Lately, it's been SUV's that go do turtle-starts and go down the road 5 mph under the speed limit. My guess is that they're driving so light-footed because their cars get 10 mpg and gas costs almost $4 a gallon and it's all they can think of to save money.

+0.95. I fully agree with most of what you've said. I totally agree that a car-bashing attitude is very counter-productive, especially given the fact that 99% of everyone in North America drives everywhere they go; it's like being a vegan, going to a megachurch picnic in Kentucky, and being totally pissed off because everyone there is eating ribs. I also agree that some cyclists need to stop being so grim (I had to grin a bit when you mentioned that part, because it's so true in some cases). I don't agree that all everyone does on this forum is complain all the time. There is certainly a lot of that, but compared to other forums on this site, it's not so bad. And if you've ever looked at any message boards of drivers' comments about cyclists, you'll know that many of those are positively homicidal. Also, there are no cyclists who purposely slow car traffic just to make a point, unless they're part of of a Critical Mass ride, and there's really nothing to do there except to put as much distance as possible between CM'ers and normal people who ride bicycles for adult reasons.

My bad for not being more clear about that in my post, I do agree that there is also lots of good stuff here!!

what do you do when there's no sidewalk?

Hmmm.

anti-bike backlash? certainly.

road diets -taking four lane roads and converting them into two lane roads with center turn lanes and bike lanes actaully smooth and improve traffic flow on streetscapes. motorists might not be cognizant of that.

america has low rates of cyclist respect and low numbers of bicyclist participation compared to other affluent countries on the world. One would ask, what is the difference? What could America learn from some European countries?

Use of varied social programs and engineering enhancements in a 'carrot and stick' approach to encourage bicycling.

America has far to go to acceptance and use of bikes by greater numbers of people. the question is, will we?

America has far to go to acceptance and use of bikes by greater numbers of people. the question is, will we?

no.

because unless the guy in the bigass SUV behind you is a cyclist and you happen to live in one of the VERY few bike friendly cities where there are clear laws that are actually and regularly enforced... you're SOL.

you are a nuisance to him, a hindrance, a 1 minute delay in his commute, and someone who doesn't belong there. and for someone who has seriously attempted commuting to work on a bike i find that scary and unacceptable.

if it wasn't so annoying and potentially dangerous, the public's response to cyclists would be quite funny. i liken the group to a dumb grade school bully who can do nothing except flex their muscles at every 'problem' they come across.

i figure the more angry they get is just confirmation of wrong they are. it's gotta hurt to be paying 3.50 for a gallon of gas, sitting in traffic for hours, and dumping thousands of dollars a year into their cars, insurance, and licensing.

Well, we're sitting there smugly expecting the vast majority's way of life to slowly go into the toilet - to be replaced by something that they really don't want.

And we question why they're pissed? Or have the gall to act offended at their reaction?

Nobody likes to see life as they know it (and are comfortable with) go away. And try to remember that this forum is one of the few places in society where using human power to go distances on a daily basis is considered normal. We're not necessarily right, we are definitely different, and the majority of society has absolutely no interest whatsoever in following us.

The SUV (to use a favorite whipping boy) is going to go away. It's not going to be replaced by a bicycle, however. A 50cc gasoline, or electric, scooter - yes. Something else small, clean and economical - yes. Something that makes you sweaty in a suit (and business dress isn't becoming obsolete anytime soon) - I don't think so.

Remember, humanity has spent its entire history trying to develop alternatives to personal muscle for traveling distance, beginning with domesticating animals. The bicycle only became popular because, at the time, it was a cheaper alternative to a horse. As soon as something that didn't take human muscle power became as cost effective (motorcycle, automobile) the bicycle was immediately marginalized as a toy or sporting good.

no.

because unless the guy in the bigass SUV behind you is a cyclist and you happen to live in one of the VERY few bike friendly cities where there are clear laws that are actually and regularly enforced... you're SOL.

you are a nuisance to him, a hindrance, a 1 minute delay in his commute, and someone who doesn't belong there. and for someone who has seriously attempted commuting to work on a bike i find that scary and unacceptable.

Seriously is a strong word for riding on the sidewalk (referencing a previous post of yours).

The following isn't directed at anyone in particular.

From the attitude that spews from a lot of bike blogs I read, and from threads on this forum, I don't doubt that there is a lot of passive aggressive purposeful motorist slowing. I've been in conversations with other bicyclists and it's often sickening that the first thing that conversation turns to is car bashing/car driving people bashing etc etc.
I've got news for bike riding people - this kind of talk, self righteous, martyrdom, patting ones self on the back attitude, disdain for anybody who drives a car does NOTHING to help getting more bikes out there. It's hurting the cause folks. Once in a while I'll read in this forum and be turned off by bicyclists. I'm a fan of bicycling, I'm a fan of people that are car free, I'm not a fan of the holier than thou attitude that seems to follow along with(not in all cases of course).
Sure there's lots of jerks driving- does that mean everyone who drives is a jerk? Quit with all the negativity- people who complain all the time don't come across as happy and enjoying life. When all you see from bike blogs and bike forums is negativity(hate) towards car "people" it doesn't look like cycling is enjoyable. It looks like a bunch of self righteous crybabies, and who really wants to join that crowd?

What to do? Stop the constant complaining for one. Knock it off with the "advocacy" groups whose tactics show nothing more than a desire to cause trouble and aggression. Show that cycling is fun(it is you know), instead of a constant battle with motorists, "cagers" etc etc. Smile, be happy, wave to people

One of the only times you'll ever see me rant. Now back to love, peace and happiness :D

I was going to say that you sound as miserable as the people you're ranting against--but I see you're already aware of that irony. ;)

A couple comments. First, I don't see anything wrong with cyclists slowing down "motorists". People drive much too fast. Even when they follow the speed limits, they're still going too fast. Roads are set up for cars, but the reality is that a lot of other vehicles use them too. Amish buggies, bikes, and cement trucks all have a need to use the road, and we all need to go slower than the average Porsche Boxer.

I'm not saying that we should intentionally cork the cars, but if you need to use the roadway, then use it and don't feel guilty. Take that narrow lane, and let them worry about overtaking you safely. Legally, it's the responsibility of the overtaker to slow down and wait until it's safe to pass--safe for him or her, you the cyclist, and everybody else who happens to be in the vicinity. Of course, if it's safe and convenient for you, you can move a little to the right to facilitate drivers who are trying to pass you. IOW, be nice but don't let anybody bully you.

Second, it's nice to say that we shouldn't get angry at motorists, but sorry, welcome to the real world and the many nasty people who will inconvenience you and endanger you just because they think they're more important than you are--whether it's motorists on the road, or people cutting you off in the supermarket queue. If you're nice and sweet, you just encourage their rudeness. I say, give 'em hell. But be polite about it, of course. :D

Well, we're sitting there smugly expecting the vast majority's way of life to slowly go into the toilet - to be replaced by something that they really don't want.

And we question why they're pissed? Or have the gall to act offended at their reaction?

Nobody likes to see life as they know it (and are comfortable with) go away. And try to remember that this forum is one of the few places in society where using human power to go distances on a daily basis is considered normal. We're not necessarily right, we are definitely different, and the majority of society has absolutely no interest whatsoever in following us.

The SUV (to use a favorite whipping boy) is going to go away. It's not going to be replaced by a bicycle, however. A 50cc gasoline, or electric, scooter - yes. Something else small, clean and economical - yes. Something that makes you sweaty in a suit (and business dress isn't becoming obsolete anytime soon) - I don't think so.

Remember, humanity has spent its entire history trying to develop alternatives to personal muscle for traveling distance, beginning with domesticating animals. The bicycle only became popular because, at the time, it was a cheaper alternative to a horse. As soon as something that didn't take human muscle power became as cost effective (motorcycle, automobile) the bicycle was immediately marginalized as a toy or sporting good.

Interesting. But how do you explain the continuing popularity of the bicycle as transportation? Obviously it meets the needs of a lot of people.