Foo - Toyota Hybrid

The new 2004 Toyota gas-electric hybrid has been introduced. The Prius is a mid-size vehicle (about the size of the Camry) with an EPA average 55 mi/gal city/highway. Tailpipe emissions are down 30% from the previous model.
The base price is 20K, loaded about 25K.
Toyota hopes the new larger Prius will gain mainstream acceptance, outgrowing its "green" cult reputation. One can only hope GM and Ford will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Hybrids will be coming along slowly...let's just hope they aren't all as ugly as the Prius. Honestly, Honda is willing to make a decent looking hybrid, why not Toyota?

The new 2004 Toyota gas-electric hybrid has been introduced. The Prius is a mid-size vehicle (about the size of the Camry) with an EPA average 55 mi/gal city/highway. Tailpipe emissions are down 30% from the previous model.
The base price is 20K, loaded about 25K.
Toyota hopes the new larger Prius will gain mainstream acceptance, outgrowing its "green" cult reputation. One can only hope GM and Ford will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

When the public is ready to buy hybrids in large numbers, all auto manufacturers will make them. Despite liberal politicians and green zealots dreams, you cannot force the public to buy things that they do not want. Well, you can, but then you have a country like the Soviet Union or Cuba, where you can't buy anything you want.

That being said, in six years of so, when my 2000 Camry will have 100,000 + on the clock and I am ready to trade again, if there is a hybrid Toyota that is big enough to haul me around and isn't ugly as sin and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I will probabl consider it. Heck, if there was one that looked as good as my Camry and got 55 mpg, I would have bought it. Not because I believe any of the hyperbole about global warming, burning fossile fules, or any of the other environmental whacko nattering, but just to save money on gas.

That being said, in six years of so, when my 2000 Camry will have 100,000 + on the clock and I am ready to trade again, if there is a hybrid Toyota that is big enough to haul me around and isn't ugly as sin and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I will probabl consider it. Heck, if there was one that looked as good as my Camry and got 55 mpg, I would have bought it. Not because I believe any of the hyperbole about global warming, burning fossile fules, or any of the other environmental whacko nattering, but just to save money on gas.

Very well said. hey do you know it costs 4500 dollars to replace those batteries?
I can buy a lot of gas for that kind of money.

Very well said. hey do you know it costs 4500 dollars to replace those batteries?
I can buy a lot of gas for that kind of money.

Supposedly the batteries will last for 100,000 miles. I know I can get 200,000 out of my Camry, but the last time I got to 100,000 miles, my wife pestered me until I bought a new one. With the Hybrid's battery life, I would be forced to buy a new one.

Right now, battery technology is what is holding back the Hybrids. I would expect that in the next few years, there will be a break through. If no, oh well, I'll just keep my Camry and hope my wife doesn't bug me again!

Sales and need will drive hybrid battery technology. Look how far small rechargeable technology has come since the advent of lap-top. Prior to that, Ni-cad was about all there was, and not much money or research was going into it.

I read an article in the Fredericksburg, Va newspaper a year or so ago... dealers couldn't get enough hybrid cars to satisfy the areas need. It seems a lot of people commute from F'burg to work in DC (about 50 miles), and single occupant hybrid cars are allowed in HOV lanes.

Sometimes a blast from the past is fun

Woo Hoo.................Thread resuscitation complete.

Holy thread revival!

I'd rather have the Giugiaro Quaranta, powered by the Lexus RX400h hybrid crossover drivetrain, developed in conjunction with Toyota and Honda. Pretty slick.

http://www.carblog.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/giugiaro-quaranta.jpg

Sometimes a blast from the past is fun

You do well, Padawan. :thumb:

Person who just had the brakes on their Prius redone at 60K miles - 2 grand!

You can buy a lot of gas for 2 grand.

Person who just had the brakes on their Prius redone at 60K miles - 2 grand!

You can buy a lot of gas for 2 grand.

Could be a fluke.....got a co-worker who's had his prius for a while and still has nothing but praise for it.

GM is going to leap frog them soon and finally put a hybrid on the market the way they should have been done to begin with. The Volt should force Toyota to take notice. Totally electric car with the gas motor only there for a generator if the batteries go to low, it does not drive the car at all. Supposed to be in excess of 100 mpg when you do use gas.

Sometimes a blast from the past is fun

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Grave_digger_(truck).jpg/800px-Grave_digger_(truck).jpg

I was just watching Monster Jam yesterday, not that far in the past! They had an interesting run in Tampa, the entire course was sludgy mud, some trucks could hardly move.

Toyota Plug-in Prius is already in the works. They are being sent to commercial fleets sooner than originally scheduled, in early 2009, but the rest of us still have to wait until 2010ish. They haven't released MPG's yet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/toyota-plug-in-prius-to-h_n_123288.html

Toyota Plug-in Prius is already in the works. They are being sent to commercial fleets sooner than originally scheduled, in early 2009, but the rest of us still have to wait until 2010ish. They haven't released MPG's yet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/toyota-plug-in-prius-to-h_n_123288.html

So the same time frame as the Volt. Be interesting to see how Toyota does the drive train, that is the real issue with a pure electric. Wonder if they came up with their own system or are licensing GMs design.

So the same time frame as the Volt. Be interesting to see how Toyota does the drive train, that is the real issue with a pure electric. Wonder if they came up with their own system or are licensing GMs design.

What I had heard (totally unconfirmed) is that it's essentially the same "parallel hybrid" design as the current gen Prius - just that the battery capacity is boosted and there are better electric motors that aren't limited to 30mph anymore.

Exactly how that works in a "plug in" format (i.e. when the gas motor kicks in) I have no idea. I think they've started testing in UK tho'. Any news over there?

My guess is that at a low battery state, the car acts more like an older Prius, limiting electric drive to low speeds, with the motor kicking in to drive/charge.

What I had heard (totally unconfirmed) is that it's essentially the same "parallel hybrid" design as the current gen Prius - just that the battery capacity is boosted and there are better electric motors that aren't limited to 30mph anymore.

Exactly how that works in a "plug in" format (i.e. when the gas motor kicks in) I have no idea. I think they've started testing in UK tho'. Any news over there?

My guess is that at a low battery state, the car acts more like an older Prius, limiting electric drive to low speeds, with the motor kicking in to drive/charge.

If that is the case, it will be disaster. The problem with electric motors is they have a very narrow power band which is why they want with the hybrid platform like they did. GM figured this out with the EV1, though that thing trashed transmissions like tomorrow (good friend worked on the program, freaking awesome car to drive though). What happens is you need a lot of gears to account for the narrow power band, accelerating at speed is opposite of a standard transmission. Instead of dropping down a gear and cranking the motor, you kill the motor, grab a higher gear and then freaking hit for all its worth. Tends to be kind of hard on trannies but really effective.

That is the reason I thought they might be purchasing it from GM since they do know how to do that. They just have been waiting on battery technology to reach the point it is now. Battery manufactures had been telling them they were almost there ever since they first started developing the EV1, guess it took a little longer than the battery suppliers thought it would.

If that is the case, it will be disaster. The problem with electric motors is they have a very narrow power band which is why they want with the hybrid platform like they did. GM figured this out with the EV1, though that thing trashed transmissions like tomorrow (good friend worked on the program, freaking awesome car to drive though). What happens is you need a lot of gears to account for the narrow power band, accelerating at speed is opposite of a standard transmission. Instead of dropping down a gear and cranking the motor, you kill the motor, grab a higher gear and then freaking hit for all its worth. Tends to be kind of hard on trannies but really effective.

That is the reason I thought they might be purchasing it from GM since they do know how to do that. They just have been waiting on battery technology to reach the point it is now. Battery manufactures had been telling them they were almost there ever since they first started developing the EV1, guess it took a little longer than the battery suppliers thought it would.

Does the CRT fix this problem?

Does the CRT fix this problem?

CRT? Not familiar with term (been out of auto market for awhile now).

You know, Crocodile Rage Tears...:p

yeah, sorry... CVT

You know, Crocodile Rage Tears...:p

yeah, sorry... CVT

CVT is basically what it takes (essentially what the EV1 had), the issue is how much torque an electric motor does produce it can really tear one up quickly if they aren't done right.

Electric motors have a horrible power band, but the amount of torque they generate really blows away gas engines. That is why an electric car can accelerate so quickly from a stop, doing it while going though is all about transmission abuse.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Grave_digger_(truck).jpg/800px-Grave_digger_(truck).jpg

Is that available in a hybrid version?

Driving a hybrid isnt cheaper and doesnt do anything to help the environment...

GM is going to leap frog them soon and finally put a hybrid on the market the way they should have been done to begin with. The Volt should force Toyota to take notice. Totally electric car with the gas motor only there for a generator if the batteries go to low, it does not drive the car at all. Supposed to be in excess of 100 mpg when you do use gas.

Which is totally stupid because diesel is so much better if all you're doing is generating electricity. Yet another boneheaded design by GM.

How many locomotives run on gas? Zero. (locomotives use giant diesel generators to drive electric motors)

Which is totally stupid because diesel is so much better if all you're doing is generating electricity. Yet another boneheaded design by GM.

How many locomotives run on gas? Zero. (locomotives use giant diesel generators to drive electric motors)

There is talk of having a diesel option.

You obviously don't have a real clue about cars though and are an elitist who just likes to trash American cars. If you actually look at the data, the foreign car companies aren't any more reliable or better. For the record I have both foreign and American. I buy the best car for the money in the class I am looking for.

I'd look into getting a diesel Volt for sure.

There is talk of having a diesel option.


Good.



You obviously don't have a real clue about cars though and are an elitist


hahahahahahahaha

Which is totally stupid because diesel is so much better if all you're doing is generating electricity. Yet another boneheaded design by GM.

How many locomotives run on gas? Zero. (locomotives use giant diesel generators to drive electric motors)

I would imagine this is mainly a "mainstream appeal" thing, as Americans in general seem to not embrace diesels (particularly for passenger cars) - something you can note with so many diesel cars bound for Europe (including the new Subarus *gurgles*) and yet we get very few.

This also translates into not every gas station having diesel available.

That said, I also would very much be interested in a "diesel option". Hell, I'm still hoping that Forester makes it across the pond. :D

I would imagine this is mainly a "mainstream appeal" thing, as Americans in general seem to not embrace diesels (particularly for passenger cars) - something you can note with so many diesel cars bound for Europe (including the new Subarus *gurgles*) and yet we get very few.Which is funny, considering they sold like hotcakes the last time they were easily available here. Look at all the diesel Mercedes, Volvo, and Volkswagens still grunting along on the roads. And the big diesel pickups still sell like crazy. I get the feeling the "people in the United States don't like diesel" is just an excuse the automakers use to justify being too lazy to prepare their diesel vehicles to be sold in the US (or, more specifically, California, since it's California with the super-high diesel standards).


This also translates into not every gas station having diesel available.I don't think I've ever seen a gas station that doesn't have diesel available, and this is in California.

It doesn't help that the government taxes Diesel an additional amount as to make the extra efficiency not economically worthwhile. "Oh, diesel is more efficient, therefore people buy less, and therefore we need to tax it more to get the same revenue"

The older I get, the more I realize that the only reason government exists is to invent problems to solve to justify its existence.

That being said, in six years of so, when my 2000 Camry will have 100,000 + on the clock and I am ready to trade again, if there is a hybrid Toyota that is big enough to haul me around and isn't ugly as sin and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I will probabl consider it. Heck, if there was one that looked as good as my Camry and got 55 mpg, I would have bought it.

Why is "looks good" still a factor in the decision-making process? Why is a car a fashion statement?

Woo Hoo.................Thread resuscitation complete.

Ooops. I keep forgetting to check the date on original posts. :o

Driving a hybrid isnt cheaper and doesnt do anything to help the environment...

Thanks for sharing.