Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Help me love my Brooks!

I am so jealous of all you Brooks zealots. I want this saddle nirvana, yet it alludes me. I've tried playing with the for/aft, height, etc. to no avail. I am in the, "if the shoes aren't comfortable when you first put them on they never will be" camp. But could i be wrong? can this thing be broken in? I'm getting desperate since my Terry Fly is the closest I've come to saddle happiness--having tried many other varieties--but i still get occasional numbness. I don't get numb with the brooks, but it's been murder on the sit-bones thus far. I am now considering the selle smp strike, but the price is terrifying. anyone have any long distance experience with it?

If you thought the Terry Fly was close to Nirvana, you must have a narrow butt. The B17 is pretty wide. Which Brooks have you been using? Where do your sit-bones make contact?
Numbness is another problem. Have you considered the Selle Anatomica? It's basically similar to a Brooks with a slot cut down the middle to relieve pressure and solve the numbness problem.

according to the specialize ass-meter, i am average. (143 mm). cut outs don't solve the numbness issue for me, since both the alias and the fly have them. it's not severe numbness, but my goal is to get rid of it all together.

I just switched to Selle An-atomica. So far I like it.

I have a Brooks Professional on one bike I really like, but I've had it for many, many years and it's well broken in. Recently I tried to break in a Brooks Swift on another bike and it didn't go so well....the Selle An-Atomica is great.

Standard disclaimer, of course -- saddles are pretty personal.

Are you using a micro-adjust seatpost, like a Thomson? Brooks saddles tend to be very sensitive to tilt... and for many it takes a fully adjustable seatpost to get it right. I've never been able to make a Brooks comfortable with the type of seatpost that uses notches for adjustment.

What type of Brooks are you using, and what is your saddle to handlebar drop?

Edit: I have a Selle SMP pro on my racing bike. Don't go for that one unless you have lots of saddle to bar drop. All my "normal" bikes carry a Brooks.

Go ride in the rain. Yes, I'm serious.

Also make sure the nose of your saddle sticks up in the air ... so that it looks almost uncomfortably high.

according to the specialize ass-meter, i am average. (143 mm). cut outs don't solve the numbness issue for me, since both the alias and the fly have them. it's not severe numbness, but my goal is to get rid of it all together.

The 143mm is not your sit bone measurement, it's the Specialized saddle prescription. Mine are 110mm which means I take their 143 saddle.

FWIW, the B17 was the narrowest Brooks where my sit bones are not over the metal saddle frame (ouch). The problem I had is that it required the nose to be too "up" for my riding style. I solved that by punching some holes in the sides and lacing a couple areas. This reduced the flexing, allowing the saddle to be more level. It also stopped the sides from flapping outward under pressure, allowing a more aero riding position.

For micro adjustments using a notch adjustment post, I use shims from aluminum flashing. Peices of an aluminum can would work as well.

Hope this helps.

hmm, a micro adjustable seatpost sounds like a good idea. it's a swift on a bike with about 2 inches of drop from the handlebars, and it's tilted up a bit.

hmm, a micro adjustable seatpost sounds like a good idea. it's a swift on a bike with about 2 inches of drop from the handlebars, and it's tilted up a bit.
I bet that feels a little bit more than a bit. ;-)

hmm, a micro adjustable seatpost sounds like a good idea. it's a swift on a bike with about 2 inches of drop from the handlebars, and it's tilted up a bit.

I have a Swift, Team Pro, and B-17. I've found that the nose on the B-17 needs to be tilted up slightly, and I've had best results with the Team Pro and Swift being totally flat.

I have a Swift, Team Pro, and B-17. I've found that the nose on the B-17 needs to be tilted up slightly, and I've had best results with the Team Pro and Swift being totally flat.

I can second that experience.

it's a swift

Unfortunately your sit bones are probably right over the metal chassis of the saddle. That's what happened to me and mine are toward the narrow side of the 143 Specialized prescription. Sucks don't it?

The other thing that impacts numbness is "how you sit" on the saddle. Try riding with different hip angles, you'll notice your contact points and numb spots shift around. This can be a tactic during a long ride (I use it) but also you might figure out a subtle position change such as bar height or reach that gets you more comfy.

Also make sure the nose of your saddle sticks up in the air ... so that it looks almost uncomfortably high.

i used to ride my swift saddle with the nose in the air, but now i'm back to a regular flat setup. for me, it only helped in the first few weeks when i was sliding off of it.

what i mean is that this may not work for everyone, although i have noticed a fair number of brooks set up as you suggest.

nine, i suggest trying out a b17, i find mine more comfortable than my swift, and i (think i) have an average sit-bone width.

nine, i suggest trying out a b17, i find mine more comfortable than my swift, and i (think i) have an average sit-bone width.

With a 2-inch saddle to bar drop, I think the OP would be miserable on a B-17. The Swift is the right choice for that bar configuration.

With a 2-inch saddle to bar drop, I think the OP would be miserable on a B-17. The Swift is the right choice for that bar configuration.

Yes. Or also possibly the Team Professional.

Brooks also offer a B17 Narrow, are you sure you have enough setback?

yeah setback is not an issue for me. i put my fly back on and it never felt so good. i'm keeping the brooks. maybe i'll try it out again someday. too many people love it, so i must have something off with my set-up. i'll figure it out some other time.

I have the B17 Narrow which works much better for me (I'm smaller 5'8" 142). Truthfully, I'm more of an Avocet fan. They are hard to find but extremely comfortable for me. And the bonus is that it is much lighter than the Brooks.

Brooks also offer a B17 Narrow, are you sure you have enough setback?

Counter intuitive, I found a better saddle fit by sliding my Brooks forward just a pinch. I think its a result of pitching the nose up, you tend to ride further back.

The leather on my Ti swift was much stiffer than my previous B-17's. After almost 1000 miles there wasn't even a dent from my sit bones, where as a B-17 would have been well broken in by then. It still wasn't comfortable, and I got very worried about having to sell such a nice saddle, probably what you've been feeling.

To solve it, I bought some neats foot oil (Velo Orange sells it), turned the saddle upside down and gave the underside a good soak, until the color showed through to the top evenly. To my dismay, this changed the beautiful honey to a dark brown and didn't go away, but my butt was immediately much happier. The saddle softened up well and the last 1,500 miles have been much much better.

What's weird is that unlike the B-17, the swift is only comfortable with cycling shorts. It doesn't sit right in jeans for some reason, not sure why.

yeah setback is not an issue for me. i put my fly back on and it never felt so good. i'm keeping the brooks. maybe i'll try it out again someday. too many people love it, so i must have something off with my set-up. i'll figure it out some other time.

I started out with a Fly, and I loved it until it got too soft. Tried a B-17, and could never get it to feel right. Then I tried a Koobi Silver, and it has been great for maybe 5 years now. They no longer make the Silver, but maybe a different Koobi would work for you. They used to offer 30 day refund trial, maybe they still do.

Bill

Hi folks,
I'm not intending to highjack this thread but I have some issues with a Brooks B-17 as well.

I bought it last spring and it took a while to break in. While I was breaking it in, I raised my handlebar height, lowered the seat, and felt pretty comfortable toward the end of the season. I'm pretty much a club and fitness rider, for the most part. Not a racer. 165#, in decent shape, etc.

Anyways, after other comfort issues, specifically ITB, I saw a respected fitter in my area and had my position refined a bit. A bit? Actually everything has changed. He lowered my handlebar, set it out further (slightly longer stem without rise), found my 'neutral' seat position and I changed from eggbeaters to Look Keo. Lot's of changes really.

The Brooks was and is very comfy on my sit bones (well, it ain't, and never will be a Laz-e-boy, but reasonable for 100 miles.) But now, I'm changing a bit from a more upright, handlebar level, pelvis-back position to a position more suitable to the drop position. Frankly, even with the previous higher-handlebar position, the Brooks B-17 causes quick issues with the 'taint and perineal soft tissue.

It seems Brooks is well aware of this to some degree with their anatomical test runs and all, but is there a solution I can try short of cutting the saddle to allow a more agreeable fit in the drop position?

From what I have gleaned, many touring cyclists love the Brooks saddles, and I doubt that type of cyclist spends much time in the drops but in a headwind or decent. Regardless, th discomfort I always have felt in the drops from the Brooks is concerning.

In short, in an upright position, the Brooks is agreeable. But, even in a shallow drop position, the brooks is interfering with soft tissue in pelvis-forward, more aero positions. The sit-bones Love the Brooks. The 'Taint hates it to the point I have to put it on the commuter.

This saddle has over 1500 miles on it, and is nicely broken in. Has my bone dimples, etc. I can't wear it in where the soft bits contact it.

I could use anecdotes and remedies if there are any.

I'm considering trying other products, but saddle shopping is why I bought the Brooks in the first place. I wanted to avoid the issue and get the best. My fear is that a new search might save the 'taint and suffer the 'sit... Which it seems would be preferable in the long term.

Thanks.

I believe when it comes to saddles you really can't take other peoples recommendations, the variables are too great, the only way to find a comfortable saddle is to try different ones.
A long time ago I really wanted a Brooks after hearing all the hype, the problem was, which one?
There was nobody to borrow one off so what was I supposed to do with so many models? Just keep buying till I get the right one!!? $$$
I ended up buying three off Ebay, a B17, a professional (small) & a colt. All used, good condition, after trying all three I can say without a doubt, for me the colt is fantastic, sooo comfortable, the others don't come even close, for ME they are torture!
I'm sure the others will suit someone else.
So, I'm sorry, I'm not that convinced about all this talk that has gone on for years about "breaking in" saddles, while I agree they will "give" a bit, its probably more a case of you getting used to it.
At the end of the day a saddle needs to feel right, or close to begin with, else no amount of riding will make it feel good, as you say, like shoes.

So...I've got over 500 miles on my B17...and it still feels like I'm sitting on a brick. I'm using it on a Big Dummy, so weight isn't a concern. Thinking of dumping this B17 for a wider, sprung model if it exists. Any Brooks experts out there who might know of such a model?

So...I've got over 500 miles on my B17...and it still feels like I'm sitting on a brick. I'm using it on a Big Dummy, so weight isn't a concern. Thinking of dumping this B17 for a wider, sprung model if it exists. Any Brooks experts out there who might know of such a model?

b66 or b67?
i have a sprung model on my bakfiets. i think they come in 2 versions - for the standard saddle clamp and for a post style saddle clamp.

check wallbike.com

Hi folks,
I'm not intending to highjack this thread but I have some issues with a Brooks B-17 as well.

I bought it last spring and it took a while to break in. While I was breaking it in, I raised my handlebar height, lowered the seat, and felt pretty comfortable toward the end of the season. I'm pretty much a club and fitness rider, for the most part. Not a racer. 165#, in decent shape, etc.

Anyways, after other comfort issues, specifically ITB, I saw a respected fitter in my area and had my position refined a bit. A bit? Actually everything has changed. He lowered my handlebar, set it out further (slightly longer stem without rise), found my 'neutral' seat position and I changed from eggbeaters to Look Keo. Lot's of changes really.

The Brooks was and is very comfy on my sit bones (well, it ain't, and never will be a Laz-e-boy, but reasonable for 100 miles.) But now, I'm changing a bit from a more upright, handlebar level, pelvis-back position to a position more suitable to the drop position. Frankly, even with the previous higher-handlebar position, the Brooks B-17 causes quick issues with the 'taint and perineal soft tissue.

It seems Brooks is well aware of this to some degree with their anatomical test runs and all, but is there a solution I can try short of cutting the saddle to allow a more agreeable fit in the drop position?

From what I have gleaned, many touring cyclists love the Brooks saddles, and I doubt that type of cyclist spends much time in the drops but in a headwind or decent. Regardless, th discomfort I always have felt in the drops from the Brooks is concerning.

In short, in an upright position, the Brooks is agreeable. But, even in a shallow drop position, the brooks is interfering with soft tissue in pelvis-forward, more aero positions. The sit-bones Love the Brooks. The 'Taint hates it to the point I have to put it on the commuter.

This saddle has over 1500 miles on it, and is nicely broken in. Has my bone dimples, etc. I can't wear it in where the soft bits contact it.

I could use anecdotes and remedies if there are any.

I'm considering trying other products, but saddle shopping is why I bought the Brooks in the first place. I wanted to avoid the issue and get the best. My fear is that a new search might save the 'taint and suffer the 'sit... Which it seems would be preferable in the long term.

Thanks.

might need to set the saddle level, or with the nose slightly down.
i ride a b17 and a swallow. i switch back and forth between 2 bikes, depending on what / where i'm riding.
the swallow is great (narrow and longer) than a b17 on my ld bike with lower h-bar position.

FWIW, my swift was comfortable out of the box. I went through a period of time when it was uncomfortable at around 500 miles on it. Then it got more comfortable and has been fine for several thousand miles since.

Definitely the micro adjust seatpost helps a lot. I've got mine basically flat front to back, but a tiny change makes a big difference. Until it is pretty broken in I felt like I would fall forward if it was leaning too forward and it hurt if it was leaning too far back. I've got a Thomson on my bike now, but the truvativ on the MTB is micro adjust as well and seems to be holding up fine and is much cheaper.

Also, drilling holes in the skirt and lacing it underneath helped firm it up without having to touch the adjustment bolt.

Mine seemed to one day be nice and broken it. Seemed to get comfortable pretty quickly, then didn't change much for about a year, then got buttery smooth real quick. I was on my MTB a lot of that time, so it didn't see as much use, but I felt like there were distinct stages. Be patient.

One of my major principles for operation in the world is that most people are not fools. So what do most people do for a saddle? Look in the catalogs. What is the percentage of hard, flat saddles there, of whatever material? Gotta be a reason for that. It's a free market. There's no conspiracy to offload garbage on the masses. Very few cyclists buy uncomfortable saddles on purpose.

So my recommendation is to start with the statistically most common saddle form seen in catalogs, and refine it from there.

So...I've got over 500 miles on my B17...and it still feels like I'm sitting on a brick. I'm using it on a Big Dummy, so weight isn't a concern. Thinking of dumping this B17 for a wider, sprung model if it exists. Any Brooks experts out there who might know of such a model?

Oh man, try the wider model with the rear springs. It very much takes the sting out of sharp bumps in the road or you can bounce up and down on it just for fun. I can't remember if mine is a 67 0r 68 and it's great.

So my recommendation is to start with the statistically most common saddle form seen in catalogs, and refine it from there.

Tried that :). Didn't work.

Not everyone has a Brooks butt. Not everyone has a padded saddle butt. Not everyone has a racer butt. We're all different, and that is ok.

I have been using a Brooks B-17N on my commuter bike for about 10 days. I was disappointed to some degree when I first got it. I have a Toupe Team saddle from Specialized on my Cervelo RS. The Toupe Saddle is more comfortable. Yet, when I ride the Cervelo, I also wear expensive lycra shorts. Most of the time I wear my work clothes when I ride the commuter bike. I have mounted the Brooks saddle perfectly level. Several post indicate that maybe the Brooks saddle is more comfortable if you tilt the nose up just a little. I plan to give that a try. I selected the Brooks because of all the favorable reviews and because I want to use the Acorn bags which are designed especially for the Brooks saddles.

Go ride in the rain. Yes, I'm serious.

Also make sure the nose of your saddle sticks up in the air ... so that it looks almost uncomfortably high.

+1, on both recommendations.

Wow, are they ever damned hard, when new.

I have a B-17, in black, and a micro adjustable seatpost. And, it took a lot of miles (over 1000), and a lot of adjusting (seatpost up, down, - nose up/down, - sliding back/front, - adjusting handlebar position, - and even adjusting handgrip angle(Ergon), to finally get it right.

I worked on one thing at a time, and finally got it perfect for me.

I ride a Specialized Crosstrail (old style-with more horizontal bar, and large frame-61cm), a hybrid, with flat bars. I am 6' tall, with a 33" inseam, and less than 1" standover.

I have Proofided the underside heavily once, and the top a couple times (not heavily.)

Once you get it right, any other move (no matter how small) is immediately uncomfortable.

I punched all of the lacing holes along the sides, but have not yet found it necessary to lace it.(sure looks nice, though.)

I really like the ability to slide around on the seat, but it's very easy to stay planted in one place.

It's now a gem, and I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

edit: the damned thing sure is still hard, but very comfortable. And, you can really feel the two soft/flexible spots, where my sit bones contact the seat. They really do break in!

Has anyone used Dr Martens shoe balm on their Brooks?

Here is my thoughts on this Brooks saddles they are not for everyone if you expect instant gratifacation you should go with a saddle that can give you that out of the box. If you choose Brooks precondition it
before you ride, use Proofide or other good leather conditioner take some time and give the leather a chance to rehydrate before you ride it. I bought my most recent B-17 in april and slathered it in proofide (top and bottom) everyday for a week before I put it on my bike, this cut down the break in period. Keep up on it after installation. Most of the new Brooks I see have been in the box a long time before they are sold (I work in a LBS) and are VERY dry. When the saddle breaks in to your specific shape you will own something that is customized to you and you alone and with care will last a life time. (the B-72 on my three speed is 50 years old and holding up very well).

I Too could really use some advice here. I love everything the brooks stands for, and how it looks. But my b-17 hurts like hell! I've got about 1500- 2000 miles on it now. The sit bone spots broke in when I moved it all the way forward. I have it tilted one notch up in front (from a flat position). I leave a pic here, Is it because my bars are too low for the brooks?
I want this to work so badly I've been riding in pain for months, soreness between the legs. The thing feels wonderful if I ride no-handed and upright, but I'm on the hoods most of the time and it hurts even more in the drops. After moving it all the way forward, more of the weight was on my sit bones, but I have to keep myself back on the seat or it starts really hurting again, directly in the middle between my two legs. (and I ride 30 miles a day)

according to the specialize ass-meter, i am average. (143 mm). cut outs don't solve the numbness issue for me, since both the alias and the fly have them. it's not severe numbness, but my goal is to get rid of it all together.

I measure 143 as well, and I have been on the fence for Brooks. I had numbness and bone-pain issues for a while, and I think I'm getting them figured out. First, I've found numbness to be a function of tilt angle. If you have a micro-adjusting two bolt seatpost, such as a Thomson, you can adjust the saddle angle infinitely finely. I tend to start with level then nose-down it in small increments, to the point where the numbness disappears. You have to record that position. My B17N can cause numbness if I don't set it up right, and it has a cutout. Same for 143 Alias and a 143 Toupe.

I've also had to balance saddle height between too high (chafing) and too low (knee discomfort), and set the fore/aft carefully. If I need to scoot around too much to find the sweet spot, the saddle needs to come forward, again in very small increments. If this leads to thigh chafing, I'm too far forward.

Lately I've gotten a Pro, and a B-17N Imperial to work pretty well. I've also been trying to use my old Ideale 92 (still hard as a rock, but some resilience). It gives me some problems, but it is pretty wide (same dimensions as a B17), and the surface is not as smooth and "slidable" as that of the Brookses. It may also be too wide for me. I don't know how to set an equivalence between teh Specialized ratings and the physical width of the various Brooks, or even if such comparisons are valid. I do think my time on the Ideale is "hardening" my butt bones.

I'm planning to try a B17 Standard, despite the width.

hey............ don't feel like you have to ride a Brooks just because others are singing its virtues. If it's not happening after 500 miles, chances are it's not going to happen.

I Too could really use some advice here. I love everything the brooks stands for, and how it looks. But my b-17 hurts like hell! I've got about 1500- 2000 miles on it now. The sit bone spots broke in when I moved it all the way forward. I have it tilted one notch up in front (from a flat position). I leave a pic here, Is it because my bars are too low for the brooks?
I want this to work so badly I've been riding in pain for months, soreness between the legs. The thing feels wonderful if I ride no-handed and upright, but I'm on the hoods most of the time and it hurts even more in the drops. After moving it all the way forward, more of the weight was on my sit bones, but I have to keep myself back on the seat or it starts really hurting again, directly in the middle between my two legs. (and I ride 30 miles a day)

If angling the nose down slightly doesn't work, you may need to go to a B-17N or a Professional (or something else that's narrower). I've heard from a fair number of people that B-17's aren't so comfortable when riding in an aggressive position. I've noticed it a bit myself, but I'm rarely in the drops for more than a few minutes.

I am a recent Brooks convert and have the saddles on several bikes, all with bars 2-3 inches lower than the saddle. After a long ride, the one part of me that doesn't hurt is my butt.

Some thoughts (this works for me:

1) Saddle selection is highly personal.

2) With Brooks, give it the Sheldon Brown break in procedure. It works.

3) Micro adjust post.

4) Level saddle position. I can't ride with the nose pointed up.

hey............ don't feel like you have to ride a Brooks just because others are singing its virtues. If it's not happening after 500 miles, chances are it's not going to happen.

I rode a B-17 for several hundred miles and it just wasn't working for me; it was like riding on a baseball bat. Instead of giving up on it I sent it to Monarch McLaren (http://www.selleanatomica.com/dollar%20buyer.htm) and had them cut a Selle Anatomica slot in it (scroll down that page to "Brooks upgrade service"). I also punched holes in the skirt and laced it like a Brooks Imperial.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c282/panhead74/100_0781.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c282/panhead74/100_0780.jpg

This one isn't very good, but you can see the lacing.

It might not work for everyone, but for me it made the Brooks comfortable. In fact, I did a metric century charity ride today and have no complaints about the saddle.

You know what I did with mine.

1) I soaked it for 30 minutes in neatsfeat oil ala sheldon brown.
2) I rode the heck out of it (not all long runs either)
3) I rode it in the rain once
4) Just like I use to do with my baseball mit I sort of wiggle in it to help the break in process... Like I sit up right will all my weight on my ass and tilt back a forth a bit. Mine feels like a dream.. The unfortunate truth is that when you readjust the seat position, you have to mini break it in all over again with a few good rides.

I rode a B-17 for several hundred miles and it just wasn't working for me; it was like riding on a baseball bat. Instead of giving up on it I sent it to Monarch McLaren (http://www.selleanatomica.com/dollar%20buyer.htm) and had them cut a Selle Anatomica slot in it (scroll down that page to "Brooks upgrade service"). I also punched holes in the skirt and laced it like a Brooks Imperial.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c282/panhead74/100_0781.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c282/panhead74/100_0780.jpg

This one isn't very good, but you can see the lacing.

It might not work for everyone, but for me it made the Brooks comfortable. In fact, I did a metric century charity ride today and have no complaints about the saddle.

I'm thinking about doing this surgery myself with a sharp blade. Does the lacing help anything too? Does it run underneath to the other side?

Thanks everyone for the great advice. So after messing with it a bunch, I found out moving it as far forward as possible and and completely flat, it's much comfier. I slide a bit without the upward angle so I have to keep sliding back into position, but I couldn't handle the painful angle any more. Does anyone else experience having to move it so far forward?

Brooks are incredible saddles... when they fit you. Brooks just aren't for everyone.

B17 - Felt great right out of the box. Never had an issue
Team Pro - ^ same as above even though the leather is much thicker and more stiff.

I'm thinking about doing this surgery myself with a sharp blade. Does the lacing help anything too? Does it run underneath to the other side?

As you put pressure on the top of the saddle the skirts tend to flare out at the bottom. This flaring is worse after the slot has been cut. The flaring causes the top to sag and feel very soft, like you're about to fall through the slot, and also causes the skirts to rub some on your legs. The lacing (which goes back and forth, from one side to the other around the seatpost) will stiffen the top and reduce the sagging, and eliminates the potential for the skirts to rub.

So has anyone attempted the surgery?