Touring - Anyone use long cargo bikes?

I was checking these out the other day, and the concept is growing on me. You could haul alot of stuff, including another bike! Some guys are doing a fully offroad tour of North and South America (http://www.ridingthespine.com/) on Big Dummies.

What do you guys think?


http://bp2.blogger.com/_GeFk6z7gxnQ/RsSuYQM3wFI/AAAAAAAAALw/r2BLyegsmB8/s320/coffeebikeside.jpg (http://scallywagsbikeshop.blogspot.com/)


http://www.surlybikes.com/blogimages/Green-Big-Dummy-008.jpg (http://www.surlybikes.com/2007_07_01_blog_archive.html)

My BD frame arrived a couple weeks ago and I am now buying the components to build it.

My BD frame arrived a couple weeks ago and I am now buying the components to build it.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/R9P2bWpBcvI/AAAAAAAAEh8/rFCJkSWlD3w/s400/bd+1.JPG

+1 - mine as well. I'll do some touring on it this summer and see what I think.

Yeah, the Surly seems solid, but the thing I don't like about it is that you pretty much have to buy the Xtracycle rack system. The Coffee bike seems more versatile in that you could rig it up however you wanted for cheaper.

+1 - mine as well. I'll do some touring on it this summer and see what I think.

Heh, by the time I finish paying for it all, I don't think a long tour is on my agenda for this summer anyway! :(

Yeah, the Surly seems solid, but the thing I don't like about it is that you pretty much have to buy the Xtracycle rack system. The Coffee bike seems more versatile in that you could rig it up however you wanted for cheaper.

That's exactly I bought the BD - I wanted the Xtracycle system on a purpose built frame - best of both world's. I'm not a DIY person so being able to pick up whatever Xtracycle components I want is awesome - very functional for all sorts of loads.

There are definitely cheaper cargo bike solutions out there, but I don't think any combine the performance and versatility of Xtracycle.

They look pretty heavy before anything much gets mounted. I would like to have a project that screamed for that much load carrying, but I don't, except perhaps some backcountry floatube fishing/camping. I do need something for the city though.

Like the Coffee it looks a little lighter. Unfortunately given the primary use of these bikes they don't really have very Touring like front ends. The coffee might be nicer in that respect also, if it has the right braz-ons it would be sweet.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money on an Xtracycle just to find out you didn't like it or you just can't see spending lots of money check out this instructables.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Sport-Utility-Bike-SUB/

http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/F90/UZ6X/T1PEZTBBC08/F90UZ6XT1PEZTBBC08.MEDIUM.jpg

Hey Vik, you should tour on the Sherpa first! You bought it first! (It's not fair)

Hey Vik, you should tour on the Sherpa first! You bought it first! (It's not fair)

Oh I'll use the Sherpa on tour this summer for sure. I guess I'll just have to go on more than one bike trip this summer...sigh...:eek::rolleyes::p:D;)

The BD looks like a really interesting option for loaded touring. I checked with Surly and the BD frame is only 3.3kg (7lbs) heavier than an equivalent LHT (they sent me a spreadsheet of weights). By comparison, a Bob trailer weighs 7.7kg and I prefer the convenience of a single vehicle.

Bicycletrailers.com insist that a pair of FreeRadicals hold 18,000 cu in of luggage but that's a bit hard to believe (they're 29" long and about 15" tall -- I don't think they would each be 20" wide -- maybe bicycletrailers.com include a top trunk in the figure?). They say the Bob Ibex holds 7,200 cu in. so even if the figure for the FreeRadicals is say 12,000 cu in (14" wide) their capacity is more than enough. You probably wouldn't want or need front panniers. With the extra length (15") the rider's weight is much more centered, putting more weight on the front wheel and taking weight off the (normally heavily loaded) rear wheel.

From all reports the handling of the BD is excellent, once you get used to it, which wouldn't take long (like adapting to an SUV after driving a sports car). The Riding the Spine tour (www.ridingthespine.com) is an excellent test of the BD's strength. And when you're not touring, it doubles as a commuter (one less car?).

Only trouble is they don't make one small enough for my 5'2" wife, so she's getting a LHT. We like the reliability of Surly.

Only trouble is they don't make one small enough for my 5'2" wife, so she's getting a LHT. We like the reliability of Surly.

http://www.xtracycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/surly_big_dummy_web.thumbnail.jpg

Is she not able to get enough stand over on the BD or is it the TT? Some people are using really long swept back bars on their BDs which would really shorten the effective TT.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/R6zbFjgdEbI/AAAAAAAAEWU/8tmxIwfAOEQ/s400/xtra1.jpg

If stand over is also an issue she could just add a free radical to the back of an existing bike.

Hi Vik

Thanks for your post about my wife's fit for a Big Dummy. The main issue is stand over height - she has a 27" inseam so even the smallest LHT is marginal for her.

I notice that you have the FreeRadical on a LHT. That's a combination I had been contemplating for both of us but figured the BD would be a stronger option - we're planning on pedalling through Australia and Asia to Europe and maybe through the US, so robust = good. Have you found your setup pretty solid? Being small, she would be placing less stress on the bike than a guy would (and I suspect I'll be carrying about 60% of the load).

Regarding the swept back bars, my concern would be the restriction in hand positions - important on a long tour.

What is the main purpose of these bikes? Is the object to eliminate front panniers and only have rear ones? Rear panniers only, but they can hold as much as front and rear panniers combined? Seems like you would overload the rear wheel. I don't believe the graphic on the Extracycle website, without cargo the weight distribution might go from 60/40 to 50/50, but then put all the cargo weigh on the rear wheel only and that pushes the overall distribution way to the back.

Hi Vik

Thanks for your post about my wife's fit for a Big Dummy. The main issue is stand over height - she has a 27" inseam so even the smallest LHT is marginal for her.

I notice that you have the FreeRadical on a LHT. That's a combination I had been contemplating for both of us but figured the BD would be a stronger option - we're planning on pedalling through Australia and Asia to Europe and maybe through the US, so robust = good. Have you found your setup pretty solid? Being small, she would be placing less stress on the bike than a guy would (and I suspect I'll be carrying about 60% of the load).

Regarding the swept back bars, my concern would be the restriction in hand positions - important on a long tour.

Sorry to confuse you - that picture isn't my bike [it came from this Flikr photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/shanerh/485053056/?addedcomment=1#comment72157604151809735)]. I'm building up a Big Dummy. I just posted it to show you an alternative. I think the BD will be stronger - which matters for the biggest cargo loads, but if your wife is smaller and we are talking normal touring loads the Xtracycle attached to a bike that fits her will be fine plus it is a much easier vehicle to transport as it breaks into 2 smaller pieces. The only folks that seem break Xtracycles are the guys who do offroad MTB touring on them, but they are also heavy men and abusing their bikes about as much as possible.

Have a look at the Titec H-bar (http://www.bikeman.com/content/view/1080/72/) for your wife. It provides lots of hand positions.


What is the main purpose of these bikes? Is the object to eliminate front panniers and only have rear ones? Rear panniers only, but they can hold as much as front and rear panniers combined? Seems like you would overload the rear wheel.

The main point behind these bikes is versatility. You can carry all sorts of loads - including people and over sized items with minimal hassle. The longer wheelbase smooths out the road. Of course you need to build up an appropriately strong rear wheel depending on what you'll be carrying.

Have a look at the Riding the Spine site (http://ridingthespine.com/) to see what crazy stuff you can do on these bikes.

http://www.ridingthespine.com/gallery/honduras/fullsize/IMG_1988.jpg

Standard touring bikes with panniers or a trailer are very effective efficient ways to get around. I don't think these cargo bikes are going to replace them at all. They just provide an additional option.

Hey Sheba,

You should get one and then ride it down to milwaukee to visit me. You could even bring the Sekine along.
I'm going hiking with your roommate and Sam Hughes this weekend in the Chip. You want to come?

I thought that gregw made a really interesting point about weight distribution - does putting all the cargo on the back of a longtail negate its more even weight distribution between front and back wheels?

I just got around to checking this out. If my sums are right (and that's a big if because I'm no physicist) it looks like the longtail does maintain a sizable advantage -- unless the cargo is VERY heavy.

Assuming say an 80kg (176lb) rider carrying a 25kg (55lb) load, the split between rear and front wheels goes from 50:50 unloaded to 62:38 with all cargo at the back. A more conventional bike like the LHT, with 60% of the cargo at the back and 40% at the front, actually improves slightly from 72:28 unloaded to 69:31.

The longtail stays more evenly balanced until the cargo weight reaches 45kg, or 99lbs. At this point both bikes distribute weight about 68:32. But then, if you were really carrying 100lbs of cargo, you'd probably want to put some of it up front.

I've attached a spreadsheet with my calcs. If someone with a better understanding of physics can critique it, that would be great. But at the moment I think the longtail does look interesting for touring in terms of weight distribution.

By the way, I also just finished the calcs on the relative weight of the Big Dummy and the LHT with appropriate racks, panniers etc. The surprise was that, despite the BD frame being 3.3kg heavier, the loaded BD actually turned out to be lighter because the luggage weights are so much less. This assumes Ortlieb Roller Plus panniers on the LHT and the Xtracycle FreeLoaders and dry sacks on the BD.

Very interesting Clarenza, do you ride a BD? I would love to see actual numbers, load up the bike with gear and rider and use a bathroom scale under each wheel. Anybody out there with a long bike?

When I used my rough math on the ultracycle add-on kit, the numbers were not as good, but then again it's just theoretical. The additional weight of the kit did not help either. I figured you would go from 60/40 to 56/44, or a 4% change. Rider position has a lot to do with it as well, the more upright the position, the more weight in back.

Hi gregw, no I don't have a Big Dummy -- I'm just at the stage of deciding between a BD or LHT (or maybe an Xtracycle) for very long distance touring. You're 100% right it would be useful to get some empirical data instead of just theoretical. And yes, rider position does seem to be quite important -- it would be interesting to check out how much variation there is in weight distribution on the two wheels as a result of shifting riding position, even if it's just on a bike with normal geometry. Anyone got two sets of bathroom scales and a helper or two to run an experiment? With this data I could fine tune my assumptions.

By the way, one reason I'm interested in the BD for touring is that it appears to offer a lower centre of gravity and better stability. Short of a loaded test ride, I haven't yet figured out how to test this.

Your other option is a trailer. I have been touring with a BOB trailer for years. If you place the heavy items in the back of the trailer, 70% of you total load will be supported by the trailer wheel. I pulled 58 lbs 5100 miles in my long tour and no trouble with it. (58lbs included weight of trailer) Never had a broken spoke. The only real down side to a trailer is flying with a bike, bags and the trailer. I just ship my stuff home, no problems.

We're a bit ambivalent about trailers. They seem like the perfect solution for when you're actually riding and a bit of a pain when you're not. Planes, stairs, buses, crowds, getting through scrub to a wild camping site, etc. Mind you, a Big Dummy would have some of those issues too, just not nearly as much.

Yep, right on all accounts, just another option. What kind of a tour are you planning?

Long. We're looking at taking a few years and doing Australia and New Zealand, then through Asia to Europe and hopefully the US. As much as possible on paved roads and we plan to dawdle (c. 40 miles a day) but we expect a few challenges. By the time we finish I'll be about 60 and then, if the knees are intact... we'll probably do another tour.