Just outside of downtown Miami is the exclusive enclave of key Biscayne, which can only be reached by a causeway. The causeway has a very wide shoulder so it is he used heavily by cyclists. The rich residents of key Biscayne, however, resent the fact that anyone else can use "their" causeway and have complained to the police who are more than willing to oblige them to rid Tony key Biscayne of the scourge of bicyclists.
So on Wednesday morning I was doing the Wednesdat morning training ride/race with a group of between 50 and 100 cyclists and as we approach a stop light on the Causeway, the light turns yellow as the first people in the group get to the intersection and is red by the time those in the back of the group crossed the intersection. The police, knowing the exact time that the group is on Causeway, had three cruisers waiting to catch us. One cruiser speeds past us and stops in the middle of the road, almost running into some cyclists. Most of the cyclists don't even stop, but I did. The police readily admit that the only reason they are doing this is because the residents have complained. I asked the police officer what's more dangerous, the bicyclists on the causeway or the speeders. He readily admits that speeding is more dangerous on the cause wait where the posted speed limit 40 mph, and the average speed is 60-80 mph on the causeway.
Eventually, about five police cars including a supervisor are involved in the "bust", tying up early-morning rush-hour traffic for miles. I got a $200 ticket for running a red light which I'm going to contest.
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
You rode through a red light and don't think you should be ticketed for running a red light?
File a complaint about all the speeding cars on the causeway and ask for the same kind of special enforcement on them. Get everyone on the ride to do the same.
timmhaan
between 50 and 100 cyclists? and this is just a regular training ride?! that's a big group!
noisebeam
J...a group of between 50 and 100 cyclists and as we approach a stop light on the Causeway, the light turns yellow as the first people in the group get to the intersection and is red by the time those in the back of the group crossed the intersection.
I ride in groups that size a couple times a week in a location with signals every 1mi at paces 25+ and have never had an issue stopping safely in time to avoid being in an intersection illegally. Lights also help break up the large group into smaller packs.
I do assume/hope that that entire group of 50-100 did not all go thru if when the lead riders were entering it was just turning yellow? Does it break into a few smaller sized groups? Are there no clues that the signal will soon change (for example cross-walk signal changes to flashing 'do not walk')?
From here it sounds more like the group of 50-100 expects to do this as opposed to getting caught in a unplanned situation.
Al
John E
There has been some discussion within the cycling community regarding whether a peleton should be regarded as a single unit or as a platoon of separate vehicles. This is one reason I hate riding in large groups -- if I run the red, I risk getting busted, but if I stop I risk causing serious injury to those behind me.
Although I generally support enforcement of traffic laws for bicyclists, I am not sure we should be paying the same $200+ fines assessed against motorists, given the relative public safety implications of our actions.
San Rensho
You rode through a red light and don't think you should be ticketed for running a red light?
File a complaint about all the speeding cars on the causeway and ask for the same kind of special enforcement on them. Get everyone on the ride to do the same.
The light turned yellow as those in the front crossed the intersection. Its a group of over 50 riders packed together like sardines, what were the riders who got caught by the red suppoed to do, slam on the brakes and crash everyone in back of them?
When a car enters an intersection on a yellow and the light turns red as he is going through the intersection, it is not a stop light violation. Same principle applies here.
bizzz111
seems like a complete double standard. I remember a recent thread where almost ever poster here was applauding the installation of red light cams to catch motorists driving illegally. Nevermind that there are plenty of studies that show they don't actually make anyone safer.....
Would you have the same complaint if the red light cameras were able to ticket cyclists? Not one bit of difference, imo between a red light cam and a police officer staking out an intersection.
Pay your fine (unless you didn't actually run a red light) and tackle the speeding issue another day. They aren't related.
timmhaan
i would say that groups this big are inherently dangerous, as i've witnessed many times where stragglers from the back of the group run reds to stay with the group and it causes a lot of confusion with waiting traffic. seems okay if the group is tightly packed together, but that's not offen the case near the back where it can get strung out.
genec
The light turned yellow as those in the front crossed the intersection. Its a group of over 50 riders packed together like sardines, what were the riders who got caught by the red suppoed to do, slam on the brakes and crash everyone in back of them?
When a car enters an intersection on a yellow and the light turns red as he is going through the intersection, it is not a stop light violation. Same principle applies here.
It is a slippery slope... couldn't closely spaced cars do the same thing? At what point do you ticket the tailgaters?
The car you describe above is one vehicle, with one driver. Your bicycle is one vehicle with one driver. A peloton is a group of vehicles, albeit traveling together, but none the less... a group of single vehicles.
San Rensho
seems like a complete double standard. I remember a recent thread where almost ever poster here was applauding the installation of red light cams to catch motorists driving illegally. Nevermind that there are plenty of studies that show they don't actually make anyone safer.....
Would you have the same complaint if the red light cameras were able to ticket cyclists? Not one bit of difference, imo between a red light cam and a police officer staking out an intersection.
Pay your fine (unless you didn't actually run a red light) and tackle the speeding issue another day. They aren't related.
You don't seem to understand the point of the post. Rich people don't like bicyclists riding on what they consider "their" roads so they get the cops to target cyclists and charge them with questionable moving violations.
Would you like to comment on that topic?
Blue Order
You don't seem to understand the point of the post. Rich people don't like bicyclists riding on what they consider "their" roads so they get the cops to target cyclists and charge them with questionable moving violations.Something tells me that Florida law requires vehicles to stop on red. If that's the case, there's nothing "questionable" about the moving violations. Of course, you could base your defense on the group's violation of the "following too closely" statute, as you argued in a previous post, but I don't think that's going to pan out the way you think it will.
kendall
realy doubt it's rich people that was the source.
Up here whenever the city starts whining about funds, it's a sure bet that they will start pulling people over for anything and everything.
There's a couple spots in Grand Rapids where speed limits change drastically for no real reason, half a block before a couple intersections the SL drops by 10mph, and picks up again right after it, the ONLY time you see peple getting tickets in that area is when the city is whining about funds, then they have a dozen cars in that area.
If it was a normal ride that uses that route on a regular basis, it could be that it was noticed earlier and used as a revenue source.
Don't get me wrong, I have no use for most police officers, for the most part they are just collection agents with no more capacity for original thought than an ant out collecting food for the hive.
Ken.
San Rensho
realy doubt it's rich people that was the source.
Up here whenever the city starts whining about funds, it's a sure bet that they will start pulling people over for anything and everything.
There's a couple spots in Grand Rapids where speed limits change drastically for no real reason, half a block before a couple intersections the SL drops by 10mph, and picks up again right after it, the ONLY time you see peple getting tickets in that area is when the city is whining about funds, then they have a dozen cars in that area.
If it was a normal ride that uses that route on a regular basis, it could be that it was noticed earlier and used as a revenue source.
Don't get me wrong, I have no use for most police officers, for the most part they are just collection agents with no more capacity for original thought than an ant out collecting food for the hive.
Ken.
Then I shouldn't believe the cop when he told me that the reason the group was stopped was because residents of Key Biscayne had complained?
maddyfish
The light turned yellow as those in the front crossed the intersection. Its a group of over 50 riders packed together like sardines, what were the riders who got caught by the red suppoed to do, slam on the brakes and crash everyone in back of them?
.
Maybe if they weren't riding like it was their private race track they'd have time to stop. Couldn't this same excuse be used if a group of car enthuiasts were playing nascar and drafting off each other? I can hear it now " the car behind me was drafting so I couldn't possibly stop, or he'd hit me" MAybe don't partake in this type of activity on public roads? Maybe?
Stop at stop lights. But more importantly-be prepared to stop at stop lights- that means don't bunch up in a huge, tight group as you approach stoplights. And if that means you can't play pro pelaton in town, too flippin' bad for you.
maddyfish
He even states in his original post "training ride/race" what on earth makes people think it is ok for 50-100 cyclists to get out on the road for a race without closing down the road?
San Rensho
Something tells me that Florida law requires vehicles to stop on red. If that's the case, there's nothing "questionable" about the moving violations. Of course, you could base your defense on the group's violation of the "following too closely" statute, as you argued in a previous post, but I don't think that's going to pan out the way you think it will.
You seem to miss the point also. Cyclists were specifically targetted not because of their alleged violations, but to harrass them based upon resident complaints, all verifired by the officer that stopped me.
Spitting on the sidewalk is an offense in many states, if all of a sudden the cops enforce the no-spitting laws is it because they are afraid of a tuberculosis outbreak or is it a pretext to arrest somebody they don't like? Same thing here, cops are singling out and harrassing cyclists because some residents don't like them riding on "their" streets, not because they are being unsafe.
San Rensho
He even states in his original post "trainign ride/race" what on earth makes people think it is ok for 50-100 cyclists to get out on the road for a race without closing down the road?
What law prohibits 50-100 cyclists riding together in a group?
Blue Order
You seem to miss the point also. Cyclists were specifically targetted not because of their alleged violations, but to harrass them based upon resident complaints, all verifired by the officer that stopped me.
Spitting on the sidewalk is an offense in many states, if all of a sudden the cops enforce the no-spitting laws is it because they are afraid of a tuberculosis outbreak or is it a pretext to arrest somebody they don't like? Same thing here, cops are singling out and harrassing cyclists because some residents don't like them riding on "their" streets, not because they are being unsafe.Do you really think it was an accident that the cops just happened to set up shop at a red light? If the group that was cited didn't arrogantly display their sense of entitlement as they violated traffic laws at will, the cops wouldn't have anything to harass them with, would they? In which case, the "rich people" would just have to suck it up that you were riding on "their road."
JusticeZero
You seem to miss the point also.
No, we understand "the point". We just DON'T CARE.
Somewhat less than fifty to one hundred vehicles ran a red light, at speed. You were stopped by police and ticketed appropriately.
It really is that simple.
I applaud the police for this. It sounds like the police were polite and reasonable in the performance of their duties.
If this should happen again, the ones approaching the intersection as the light goes yellow should call "Stopping", and stop. This too, really is that simple. This is what we expect of any and all vehicles on a public roadway.
ilmooz
There simply wouldn't have been any violators to cite for running the red light if they had obeyed the law, and your misguided basis for an arguement wouldn't even exist. For you and those that chose to run the red light at an intersection in plain view of where you knew three police cars were waiting seems particularly foolish.
Trucker_JDub
When a car enters an intersection on a yellow and the light turns red as he is going through the intersection, it is not a stop light violation. Same principle applies here.
Actually in your example it is a violation; for a car to be in the intersection when the light is red regardless what color the light was when the car entered is a violation. If you don't believe me go to a place with a red light traffic camera at night and watch what happens when a car is in the intersection during a red light even if it entered on yellow. If you run a red or try to speed threw a yellow and get stuck there on red you get what you get. If you are protesting a public roadway is not of use to you the law is required to provide and alternate route or bypass for you to use.
But in the OP's post s/he got a red light ticket. Should have stopped. If you tell a judge that if you stopped you would have caused an accident with another bike then your going to be told that you shouldn't have put your self in that position and that if you where rear ended then it would be the fault of the person for following too close (tailgating).
I will never understand why people who admit to breaking the law go to different forums or media outlets and cry about the big bad police man who was out of line to wright you a ticket for something you honestly did. And if your upset now tickets on a bike in most states count on your drivers record as a moving violation and count as points raising your insurance. California is one of those states, when I was 15 I got a 'failure to yield' ticket. Did I deserve it? Yes considering it caused a wreck witch someone running a red light could do as well. BTW, my ticket was accompanied by 19 staples and a 2 week old now totaled bike, also I had high insurance from something that happened before I was allowed to drive. The mini-van made it just fine except for the speeding ticket they got.
dbg
I gotta agree. Excusing yourself for running a red light sounds a lot more egregious than rich people complaining about bikers breaking the law. You seriously need a clue here.
maddyfish
What law prohibits 50-100 cyclists riding together in a group?
The lack of ability to come to a stop at stop lights is what prohibits them from riding together as a group under certain circumstances.
Trucker_JDub
What law prohibits 50-100 cyclists riding together in a group?
I would say it falls under the anti-cruising laws a lot of cities have dictating how many of a certain type of vehicle (hotrod, lifted 4x4, low rider, motorcycle, bike) may travel in an organized group or pass a certain point more then a set amount of times in a certain amount of time. Big events have a pass on these laws most of the time but if this is just something you do I doubt you get a pass.
kendall
Then I shouldn't believe the cop when he told me that the reason the group was stopped was because residents of Key Biscayne had complained?
If it's a normal ride with the same amount of people and the same behavior at lights than I caould see where a complaint would cause a 'sting'
I'd bet it has nothing to do with the causeway, it has to do with riders habitually running the red or obstructing traffic, which would tend to produce complaints over time, enough complaints over a long enough time and the police will react.
If it was a once in a while thing for people to be running that light, there would have been NO reason to set up enough police cars to stop a group of riders. They knew it happened there, they knew there would be a group.
It happened often enough that there were plenty of complaints to get the cops away from the donut shop to take action.
Take your lumps and just be happy drivers were willing to wait for the bikes to go through instead of looking at it like a staging light.
Ken
DM4
There has been some discussion within the cycling community regarding whether a peleton should be regarded as a single unit or as a platoon of separate vehicles. This is one reason I hate riding in large groups -- if I run the red, I risk getting busted, but if I stop I risk causing serious injury to those behind me.
Although I generally support enforcement of traffic laws for bicyclists, I am not sure we should be paying the same $200+ fines assessed against motorists, given the relative public safety implications of our actions.
So, there are really some retards out there that take the position that a group of cyclists should be considered a single unit. These dimwits only need to read the traffic statutes in their respective states. A bicycle is defined as a vehicle in every state; therefore a group of bicycles is a group of vehicles.
I am sure that the traffic laws are defined very similarly in every state. One typical statute regarding traffic signals reads "...the operator of a vehicle shall obey all traffic control devices...” This very clearly means that each rider in the group is obligated to obey the traffic signal.
Very simply put, if you do not want to risk getting ticketed, obey the signal.
By the way, I am sure the residents did complain; however I am sure the complaints were not about the bicycles, but about the riders disregarding the traffic signals.
crhilton
The light turned yellow as those in the front crossed the intersection. Its a group of over 50 riders packed together like sardines, what were the riders who got caught by the red suppoed to do, slam on the brakes and crash everyone in back of them?
When a car enters an intersection on a yellow and the light turns red as he is going through the intersection, it is not a stop light violation. Same principle applies here.
Actually ... That is a violation. TMK, the law states that you must clear the intersection before the light turns red.
Anyway, I do think there should either be some reasonable leniency in enforcement or special rules for groups of cyclists. Either that, or ban large groups of cyclists.
Also, it seems silly that they even ticketed anyone. If they disagreed with the complaints they could just pull people over and have a friendly conversation while pretending to write on their ticket pad. The residents would be duped and the cyclists would thank them for the polite conversation and water break.
San Rensho
Do you really think it was an accident that the cops just happened to set up shop at a red light? If the group that was cited didn't arrogantly display their sense of entitlement as they violated traffic laws at will, the cops wouldn't have anything to harass them with, would they? In which case, the "rich people" would just have to suck it up that you were riding on "their road."
Where in my post did I say that the group was "arrogantly displaying its sense of entitlement?" You are simply making facts up when you can't debate the facts that are given, which seems to be a common problem here on A and S.
The cop told me they were targetting cyclists because of complaints by locals. They had 3 cops lying in wait to see if they could catch the group. And the cops didn't even make a clean stop, they ticketted some people who were passing on a yellow light, which is even more evidence that THE CYCLISTS WERE TARGETTED. Period end of story, you're not entitled to make up your facts even if you don't like mine.
My point is its a clear cut case of selective enforecment, which you, as a cop, I'm sure are intimately familiar with. Its clearly selective enforcement when at the same time the cops were stopping the horrible, scoff law cyclists, the average speed of cars driving on the causeway was 60-80 MPH, another FACT the police officer admitted to me. If the cops were really worried about safety, they would be going after the huge number of drivers breaking the law.
So if you think its great that cops waste their limited law enforcement resources going after a few cyclists when literally hundreds of drivers are going double the speed limit, then sir, you seriously have your priorities misplaced.
Trucker_JDub
Wait now I understand, there are 2 groups of law breakers some on bikes and some in cars and your group shouldn't be messed with because.... wait, I don't understand. You admitted in your OP that you broke the law, you got busted, end of story. If anything can be learned its don't break the law. Your acting like a 3rd grader pointing finger saying 'but he did it first'.
San Rensho
No, we understand "the point". We just DON'T CARE.
Somewhat less than fifty to one hundred vehicles ran a red light, at speed. You were stopped by police and ticketed appropriately.
It really is that simple.
I applaud the police for this. It sounds like the police were polite and reasonable in the performance of their duties.
If this should happen again, the ones approaching the intersection as the light goes yellow should call "Stopping", and stop. This too, really is that simple. This is what we expect of any and all vehicles on a public roadway.
So you don't care that when the cops are wasting their time intentionally targetting cyclists with a 3 police car dragnet that the cops are ignoring literally hundreds of speeders, many of whom are going at double the speed limit, according to the cops own admission? That doesn't strike you as misplaced use of limited resources?
According to you, it would be perfectly proper and good law enforcement practice for cops to concentrate on catching jaywalkers only and ignore all traffic violations by cars, right?
San Rensho
Wait now I understand, there are 2 groups of law breakers some on bikes and some in cars and your group shouldn't be messed with because.... wait, I don't understand. You admitted in your OP that you broke the law, you got busted, end of story. If anything can be learned its don't break the law. Your acting like a 3rd grader pointing finger saying 'but he did it first'.
I never said that the cyclists were justified in running the red because cars are speeding. Again, you just don't get, or don't want to get, the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying its a complete waste of limited law enforcement resources to intentionally try and catch a few harmless cyclists when, by the cops own admission, hundreds of drivers are seriously exceeding the speed limit.
The best use of law enforcement on the causeway is to stop speeders. That will bring about the most SAFETY for everyone involved. But instead of going after speeders, the cops intentionally lie in wait to see when a cyclist messes up and waste time on the cyclists.
San Rensho
Actually ... That is a violation. TMK, the law states that you must clear the intersection before the light turns red.
Anyway, I do think there should either be some reasonable leniency in enforcement or special rules for groups of cyclists. Either that, or ban large groups of cyclists.
Also, it seems silly that they even ticketed anyone. If they disagreed with the complaints they could just pull people over and have a friendly conversation while pretending to write on their ticket pad. The residents would be duped and the cyclists would thank them for the polite conversation and water break.
Not in Florida. If you get past the stop line on the pavement BEFORE the light turns red, its not a stop light violation.
Blue Order
Where in my post did I say that the group was "arrogantly displaying its sense of entitlement?" You are simply making facts up when you can't debate the facts that are given, which seems to be a common problem here on A and S.You didn't say it. I said it. If the law says stop on red, and the cyclists saw the red, and rolled through anyway, in my book, they arrogantly displayed their sense of entitlement. Does that clear it up for you?
The cop told me they were targetting cyclists because of complaints by locals. They had 3 cops lying in wait to see if they could catch the group.Lying in wait at a red light. Why is that? Did they suspect that you, as a group, might, oh, I don't know, arrogantly run the red light as if you have some sense of entitlement about your perceived "right" to do so?
My point is its a clear cut case of selective enforecment, which you, as a cop, I'm sure are intimately familiar with.Speaking of making up facts when you're not entitled to...I'm not a cop, I'm a a law grad.
Its clearly selective enforcement when at the same time the cops were stopping the horrible, scoff law cyclists, the average speed of cars driving on the causeway was 60-80 MPH, another FACT the police officer admitted to me. If the cops were really worried about safety, they would be going after the huge number of drivers breaking the law.
So if you think its great that cops waste their limited law enforcement resources going after a few cyclists when literally hundreds of drivers are going double the speed limit, then sir, you seriously have your priorities misplaced.Then instead of callously breaking the law and then complaining about getting caught, perhaps you could all man up, pay your fines, and then do the same thing the "rich people" did: Use the power of your numbers to complain to the authorities about all the scofflaws going double the speed limit.
Trucker_JDub
I'm not sure where you get this greater then every one else attitude you have. You will not just admit you screwed up and move on. Are you telling me that the cops have never pulled over a speeder? The have never pulled over a CAR that ran the red light. I'm sorry but if it was me I would go after the bikes as well. There is more of them and I can wright more tickets making me look better to the chief. Also I'm not sure if you realize this but if a car ran over you while you where trying to run a red light it would be your fault. The reason a cop gives someone a ticket is so that they learn what they do is wrong so no one gets hurt. I have a feeling that you didn't learn this and will soon be in the same situation again. Hopefully you will not end up inspecting the transmission of some half blind old lady's car next time you run out to play in traffic during a red light.
San Rensho
I'm not sure where you get this greater then every one else attitude you have. You will not just admit you screwed up and move on. Are you telling me that the cops have never pulled over a speeder? The have never pulled over a CAR that ran the red light. I'm sorry but if it was me I would go after the bikes as well. There is more of them and I can wright more tickets making me look better to the chief. Also I'm not sure if you realize this but if a car ran over you while you where trying to run a red light it would be your fault. The reason a cop gives someone a ticket is so that they learn what they do is wrong so no one gets hurt. I have a feeling that you didn't learn this and will soon be in the same situation again. Hopefully you will not end up inspecting the transmission of some half blind old lady's car next time you run out to play in traffic during a red light.
So if you were a cop, to you it would just be a game to see who can write the most tickets. Safety is not important just numbers of tickets, right. And you would also be a coward. Much easier to stop spandex wearing cyclists than actually have to be a man ands pull over somebaody in a car, right?
You are a piece of work and I'm glad most cops don't think like you.
bikesafer
Then I shouldn't believe the cop when he told me that the reason the group was stopped was because residents of Key Biscayne had complained?
My guess is he meant that they were there because residents complained, but they were giving tickets because you ran a red light.
I've been in big groups too and it is a tough situation when the group wants to blow the light. You can't really safely stop in the middle of the pack, so what do you do? I would have a talk with the group before you go and make sure they know that you will be stopping for red lights, so they better do the same or there will be trouble. One of two things will happen, they will either obey the law with you or tell you to ride with a different group. At least you'll know where you stand.
Good luck
Bikesafer (http://www.bikesafer.blogspot.com)
Jeff
Trucker_JDub
This will be my last post on this topic:
A cops job is to make things as safe for every one as possible in the limited amount of time they have in there shift. If they can influence 25 (25 just for the sake of argument) cyclists in an hour by writing them tickets for running a red light that is more productive then the 5 or 6 cars that they could get in the same amount of time. And it doesn't matter if the other person is in a car and you on a bike the law doesn't see a difference. You are the vehicle that was stopped.
You can go on and cry all you want but when it comes down to it you do not get a free pass because someone else is breaking the law. If that was the case no one would ever get a ticket because some one some where else is always doing something wrong. The cops where probably sitting there because as you said in your OP you do this regularly. They probably had this planned for a week; dose this make you feel better? Like I said they decided that today was going to be the day that they focused on cyclists. Tomorrow they may focus on the speeders or child molesters or what ever they want to.
I would also guess that you probably had a bad attitude when dealing with the officer this could also be part of the reason you got a ticket. A simple yes sir, no sir, I screwed up sir goes a long way.
Bottom line is this, you broke the law you got a ticket, and you deserve every bit of what you get. This action could have cost you your life for that reason I think you got off cheap.
I have drove a lot of miles in a semi truck down in Florida and I don't think I have ever seen any of the locals doing over 50mph there any way and that was in the fast lane on I95. So I find it hard to believe that you found the magic land where people do 90mph in Florida.
DCCommuter
THE CYCLISTS WERE TARGETTED. Period end of story.
I don't see anyone disagreeing that the cyclists were targeted. But just because you're targeted doesn't mean you're not guilty. Just ask Eliot Spitzer.
Blue Order
:lol:
ilmooz
Directed enforcement happens. Last year in Chicago a child was struck and killed in a crosswalk by a motorist who ran a stop sign. It made big news along with interviews of local residents who talked all about how almost every car coming through that intersection rolls through the stop sign without stopping. News cameras even sat there and filmed them.
You better believe the next day several squad cars were directed to sit on that stop sign and write citations to anyone who rolled through without making a complete stop, which is exactly what happened. During this time any number of far more serious crimes occurred in the city of Chicago which these officers could surely have been put to better use on dealing with, however public outcry deemed it necessary to direct them to enforce a single stop sign intersection instead.
It's a matter of perspective. As a bicyclist, you wonder why the police are "targeting" you for running a red light when motorists are committing a more serious violation by speeding. I'm sure a pedestrian waiting to cross the street might perceive your violation in a more serious manner than you as to how running that red light relates to them.
elfich
Sounds very similar to what happened outside where I live. Every couple of months the "Portorican Parade" would come through. Somewhere between 10 and 20 cars. Tie up traffic, ignore red lights, stay as a tight group and otherwise make life hell for everyone else on the road. Then one day in the middle of the parade, about half a dozen cops showed up out of nowhere and ticketed everyone in the parade. The Parade has not been seen since.
Don't run the red light. Don't organize an unlicensed parade and then expect to have the rights of a parade accorded to you.
In many states, bike riders can be no more than two abreast unless it will not impede traffic. So if you guys were on a narrow single lane road and impeding the flow of traffic, you were most likely breaking the law in some way, the stop light is the easiest one to snag you for.
If I lived on a road and 100 bicyclists that were <b>not obeying the rules of the road</b> started using the road on a regular basis, damn straight I would call the cops and get that broken up.
JusticeZero
So you don't care that when the cops are wasting their time intentionally targetting cyclists with a 3 police car dragnet that the cops are ignoring literally hundreds of speeders, many of whom are going at double the speed limit, according to the cops own admission? That doesn't strike you as misplaced use of limited resources?
That's correct, because tomorrow they might be chasing speeders or something else. In any case, a group of fifty to a hundred vehicles running red lights knowingly at full speed as a group seems like a pretty damned important group to target to me, and the ability to stop FIFTY TO A HUNDRED VEHICLES who are knowingly and flagrantly ignoring traffic signals with ONLY THREE CARS seems like a REALLY EFFICIENT use of police resources to me.. I mean, those speeders, to bust sixty of them, they'll need sixty cars. They got your peleton with 5% of that. That's some really damned efficient resource utilization there.
randya
and we all know JZ never speeds in his car and comes to a full and complete stop on his bike at every stop sign he rolls up to, regardless of the presence of cross traffic....y'all should get in the shower, 'cause I smell hypocrisy.
:rolleyes:
JusticeZero
One, you don't know me, maybe I do.
Two, even if I were a horrible law-flaunting driver, that does not affect my point that being upset about being stopped for blasting through a red light at full speed is really stupid, and that a big group of people blasting through a red light are completely valid people for the police to stop.
ChipSeal
There are times when you can ignore traffic lights with impunity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFLDXGgTWvA&feature=related
fordfasterr
.........
I have drove a lot of miles in a semi truck down in Florida and I don't think I have ever seen any of the locals doing over 50mph there any way and that was in the fast lane on I95. So I find it hard to believe that you found the magic land where people do 90mph in Florida.
WRONG.
I regularly see traffic moving at 80+ mph on all major highways here... including I-95, 595, i-75 and others. If you are not going at least 70, you will encounter a lot of resistance from other cagers.
bizzz111
I guess the OP wanted to turn this into a class warfare kind of thing, i.e. the rich are using the police for their own selfish goals, which seem to be the eradication of all cyclists and to continue their freedom to drive as fast as their black hearts desire. Do I get your point now?
Fact is, the OP had total control over the situation IF he had obeyed the law. They could have had every cop in the city stationed every 10 feet along their route, as well as a patrol helicopter, a K9 unit and every swat team in the state, and nothing would have happened IF YOU HAD JUST OBEYED THE LAW!!!
Next time really stick it to those rich *******s. Stop at all lights and stop signs. You know, obey the traffic laws as if you were actually driving a car. Wave at the police as you cruise by and know you had the last laugh, and the dirty, filthy rich people behind their golden gates will be left gnashing their teeth and shaking their fists at the cyclists that foiled their evil plan. Perhaps they will then be convinced to move onto easier prey like running school buses off the road or something.
mconlonx
You don't seem to understand the point of the post. Rich people don't like bicyclists riding on what they consider "their" roads so they get the cops to target cyclists and charge them with questionable moving violations.
Would you like to comment on that topic?
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I actually did answer the post--how many of the riders in your group have called the police department complaining of speeding cars along that stretch of road and specifically asked for enforcement?
Did you?
San Rensho
I guess the OP wanted to turn this into a class warfare kind of thing, i.e. the rich are using the police for their own selfish goals, which seem to be the eradication of all cyclists and to continue their freedom to drive as fast as their black hearts desire. Do I get your point now?
Fact is, the OP had total control over the situation IF he had obeyed the law. They could have had every cop in the city stationed every 10 feet along their route, as well as a patrol helicopter, a K9 unit and every swat team in the state, and nothing would have happened IF YOU HAD JUST OBEYED THE LAW!!!
Next time really stick it to those rich *******s. Stop at all lights and stop signs. You know, obey the traffic laws as if you were actually driving a car. Wave at the police as you cruise by and know you had the last laugh, and the dirty, filthy rich people behind their golden gates will be left gnashing their teeth and shaking their fists at the cyclists that foiled their evil plan. Perhaps they will then be convinced to move onto easier prey like running school buses off the road or something.
Are you intentionally being dense in order to argue or are you really that clueless? READ MY POSTS! Its not about class warfare its about wasting police resources.
The point of the post is that scarce police resources are being intentionally diverted from stopping cars that are speeding, some at double the speed limit (and this was ADMITTED to BY THE POLICE OFFICER THAT PULLED ME OVER) because some residents don't like bicyclists on their roads.
Police resources are limited and should be used to achieve the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Cars going twice the speed limit are a huge safety concern for other cars, cyclists, pedestrians, EVERYBODY. Cyclists can do essentially NO HARM. How many cyclists kill other people in a year compared to car drivers that kill others in a year?
Yet police resources are wasted on bicyclists when they could be used to much greater effect on speeding cars, hence the title of my post "Your tax dollars at work."
Fear&Trembling
Yet police resources are wasted on bicyclists when they could be used to much greater effect on speeding cars, hence the title of my post "Your tax dollars at work."
And by extension, a rapist might well argue that police resources could be used to much greater effect by hunting down murderers...