Foo - Canon Rebel XSi

What do you guys think? I'm in the market for a digital SLR. Anything else I should look at? I want to stay fairly mainstream, like Canon or Nikon. Also, what two lenses should I have?

Get a nikon.

Don't worry about lenses until you have a functional body. Use the stock lens.

Eh...I liked the Rebel much better than the d40 when I tried both. Plus the only dealer on the island is overpriced. I'd like a Sony A200 but out here it's either Canon, Nikon, or a complete lack of support or lenses available. My reason for asking about the lenses is that Canon offers a few different kits. Am I better off staying away from kits?

Kits are best to start out with beacuse you need a body, a battery, a charger, and a lens, and a Memory card to take pics.

Post up the kits and we'll take a look. There are some canon fanboys around here. Aka X136 and allen.

Well the dealer I'll be going to puts packages together. Can't find their site now, but these are the cameras.

Rebel XTi (http://www.canon.ca/english/index-products.asp?lng=en&prodid=1088&sgid=23&gid=2&ovr=1)

Rebel XSi (http://www.canon.ca/english/index-products.asp?lng=en&prodid=1276&sgid=23&gid=2&ovr=1)

And this is the full lineup. (http://www.canon.ca/english/index-products.asp?lng=en&gid=2&sgid=23)

Can't say much unless you let us know what the kit options are and what the choices of lens options are.

Eh. Which body sounds better? From the description the XSi sounds nicer, but it also kinda makes it sound automatic

Eh. Which body sounds better? From the description the XSi sounds nicer, but it also kinda makes it sound automatic

The XSi is a higher end model.

Not sure what's "automatic", anything that is automatic most likely has a manual mode as well.

Depending on the price difference and what's available I'll get the XSi. The kits generally include something like a 30mm lens and a zoom lens of some sort. I have a 45mm and a 135mm now.

Oh yeah, what does the fX.X number mean?

I believe that number is exposure correct me if I'm wrong someone.

It's a set number attributed to the lens. Exposure is adjustable, isn't it? Rating of something, I'm sure.

Like in this lens name: EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro USM.

What's that mean?

What's that mean?

aperture (http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Exposure/Aperture_01.htm)

Thanks T-Man. My current lenses are a 45mm f2.0 Minolta kit lens that was stock with the camera and a 135mm f2.8 zoom that was purchased afterwards. Can I get similar lenses for the XSi?

EDIT: I fail. The 135mm lens is not a zoom. It's a macro.

Both canon and nikon have vast choices of lenses. You'll have no problem finding ones you like. Personally, I'd get the canon; they just feel better in my hands and the XSi just looks plain awesome (though i'm yet to play with one). But nikon kit lenses are meant to be a lot better than canon's, so if you're unlikely to be buying better lenses, bear that in mind.

The f number of a lens is the aperture. Basically this means 'size of hole' to let the light in. The smaller the number, the bigger the hole and vice versa.
High f stop = small hole = darker photo (given same shutter speed) = deeper depth of field
Lower f stop = large hole = brighter photo (at a given shutter speed) = shallower DOF

There's an awful lot more to it than that though... but you'll learn that with time.

Hopefully that helped... :)

Both canon and nikon have vast choices of lenses. You'll have no problem finding ones you like. Personally, I'd get the canon; they just feel better in my hands and the XSi just looks plain awesome (though i'm yet to play with one). But nikon kit lenses are meant to be a lot better than canon's, so if you're unlikely to be buying better lenses, bear that in mind.

The f number of a lens is the aperture. Basically this means 'size of hole' to let the light in. The smaller the number, the bigger the hole and vice versa.
High f stop = small hole = darker photo (given same shutter speed) = deeper depth of field
Lower f stop = large hole = brighter photo (at a given shutter speed) = shallower DOF

There's an awful lot more to it than that though... but you'll learn that with time.

Hopefully that helped... :)


Helped a lot. Thanks:).

I'll get myself better lenses probably within a year of buying the camera, but a decent kit lens is a bonus. I'd really rather avoid the local Nikon dealer, they're overpriced and the employees are disagreeable and lazy most of the time. Plus, I tried a Nikon d40 and a Canon Rebel XT, I liked the Rebel much much more. I was considering a Sony because I thought my Minolta lenses might fit it, but that belief was shot down and Sony is out again. Looks like the Rebel now.

i dont like my canon because the lenses cost so much, i miss my pentax because the lenses were cheaper and the anti shake was built into the body. plus it had a lot more battery options.

I looked at the XTI when I was looking for a new dslr, it was real small in my hands. I went with pentax. It felt better built and is weather resistant. Now that they came out with the k20d, which is 14 mp, I feel even better about my purchase because I know I have a body to upgrade too....:D

Unless you know what you want to shoot (eg: interiors = wide angle, wildlife = telephoto, etc.), just go with the kit lens. They have a generally very useful zoom range (which is why they're approximately mimicked by almost all compact point and shoots).

After you've had a couple weeks or months to play around with the camera, you'll probably find yourself wanting a wider/longer/brighter/closer focusing/etc lens. Then is the time to go spend more money on nice lenses.

What particularly did you like about the Rebel XT, just in case we can offer any insights based on that?

Might I suggest considering the extra $$ for the XTi? I understand it has an improved sensor and image processor compared to the XT, and the larger display is surprisingly nice. Of course, you'll be able to take great pictures with an XT, too, but I think the XTi has come down in price enough to be well worth it. And the XSi has some interesting features, too, if you're willing to pay for them.

The XSi is a great camera. If it feels a bit small in your hands, I'd recommend getting the battery grip for it. Actually, I'd recommend getting the battery grip for it anyway. I use one on my XTi (the predecessor to the XSi) and consider it indispensable.

As to the kit lens, as far as I know, the 18-55 IS is a decent, but not great lens. It will certainly be enough to get you learning and growing with your camera, though! Personally, I'd recommend springing a little for the Sigma 17-70 lens, as it's a very sharp, great walkaround lens. I use mine more than any other lens in my arsenal (which is, granted, only 3 lenses large).

I would definitely choose the XSi over the XTi, though, were money no object. The XSi is going to have better image quality, in part because of the 14bit sensor, and in part because of the new Digic III processor. It's going to perform much better at high ISO, where the XTi will be noticeably more grainy.

That's about all I have time to write for right now. I must get on to work.

As long as the XSi will run me under a grand or reasonably close, it'll be the choice.

As for what I'm going to do, my priorities lie in action/sports shots.

I looked at the XTI when I was looking for a new dslr, it was real small in my hands. I went with pentax. It felt better built and is weather resistant. Now that they came out with the k20d, which is 14 mp, I feel even better about my purchase because I know I have a body to upgrade too....:D

I like the Pentax a lot, actually. Not really viable though, since the closest dealer is on the mainland:(.

^^ Bummer, go with what you have close to you. Nikon and cannon got big for a reason, they make great products.So you really can't go wrong, I for some reason, am attracted to small companies, in almost anything I buy.:)

Pentax? A small company? Compared to whom? :p

I know what you mean, though. It's nice that there are viable third parties in this market, be it for the cameras themselves, the lenses, or any number of accessories.

As for the XSi, I accidentally ran across the announcement the other day. It was all ooohs and ahhhs (especially the 14-bit sensor), aside from the switch to Secure Digital from Compact Flash, which got a boo. Of course, that alone certainly isn't enough to make or break the purchase.

The guys I know who have Pentax cameras only bought them because they'd been shooting Pentax for years. My film cameras are a Minolta and a German-market Voigtlander so I'm out of luck there. Even the new Sonys, which are apparently as close as it gets to old Minoltas, won't take my lenses. Stupid autofocus marketing crap.:crash:

Have you looked around for adapters? I'm pretty sure, with adapters, one can attach a 1950s screwmount Pentax lens to the newest Pentax digital SLRs. Not sure how prevalent cross-brand adapters are, but it may be worth a look.

I'll take a look at adapters, because I'm snowed in for about three days now at least and I want to get exactly what I'm going to get finalized.

As for the Compact Flash to Secure Digital thing, care to elaborate?

The Digital Rebel, Rebel XT, and XTi, as well as the EOS 10D-40D all use(d) Compact Flash memory cards. In fact, I think every digital SLR Canon has ever made used Compact Flash. But the XSi uses Secure Digital cards instead, for some reason (most likely size).

I'm sure that SD has mostly, if not completely caught up with CF long ago, to the point where it matters little which card a camera takes, so long as you don't have a collection of one type already.

I have SD because that's what my camcorder takes. Cool:D

As for the XSi, I accidentally ran across the announcement the other day. It was all ooohs and ahhhs (especially the 14-bit sensor), aside from the switch to Secure Digital from Compact Flash, which got a boo. Of course, that alone certainly isn't enough to make or break the purchase.

SD is niiiiiice and cheap, though!

I'm waiting for someone to start a thread that says "I need some advice. I want to get a digital SLR body and some great lenses, money no object." http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

All this talk of the cheap stuff is so blah. http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/166/Yawn.gif

Oh yeah, what does the fX.X number mean?

Before you make any purchases, you need to learn and understand the terminology. The 'f' number refers to the maximum aperture of the lens, which has many implications. Make sure you understand the relationship between aperture and shutter speed on exposure.

A typical pro lens has a maximum aperture of f2.8. Compared to a typical consumer lens with a maximum aperture of f4 or f5.6, the "2.8" lens means:

1. A brighter viewfinder (no matter what aperture you set, the viewfinder views the scene at the maximum aperture).
2. Faster autofocus in less than bright conditions.
3. Shallower depth of field at maximum aperture, for better isolation of the subject (typical for portraits).
4. Higher image quality at f4 to f8 (lenses typically must be stopped down two stops to reach their sharpest potential).
5. The potential for faster shutter speeds to freeze action, whether sports or your two-year-old running around.
6. More rugged build quality.
7. More weight.
8. More bulk.
9. Higher price.

This is just an example of all the crap you should know before you start spending your hard-earned money. Maybe not for your first lens, but once you start building your lens collections, you should know this stuff.

Get a nikon.

Don't worry about lenses until you have a functional body. Use the stock lens.

*sigh*

Some people just never learn i suppose.

The Digital Rebel, Rebel XT, and XTi, as well as the EOS 10D-40D all use(d) Compact Flash memory cards. In fact, I think every digital SLR Canon has ever made used Compact Flash. But the XSi uses Secure Digital cards instead, for some reason (most likely size).

I'm sure that SD has mostly, if not completely caught up with CF long ago, to the point where it matters little which card a camera takes, so long as you don't have a collection of one type already.

Their 1D's have been using SD and CF for two generations now, FWIW.

Kits are best to start out with beacuse you need a body, a battery, a charger, and a lens, and a Memory card to take pics.

Post up the kits and we'll take a look. There are some canon fanboys around here. Aka X136 and allen.

I see you went with that ebay deal...

Every camera you buy comes with a battery and a charger. A 2gig CF card can be had for $30. More money should be spent on lenses if you want to do it right. 'nuff said

I'm a canon fanboy through and through. But that doesn't change anything i've said

Lens > Camera body
To prove my point, i challenge you to post your best photograph (that you can post) an i will do the same. And i promise that my camera will be 7 years old and only 4mp.

I'm waiting for someone to start a thread that says "I need some advice. I want to get a digital SLR body and some great lenses, money no object." http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

All this talk of the cheap stuff is so blah. http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/166/Yawn.gifI generally use the XT, but I have a medium-format digital Hasselblad laying around somewhere as a backup. It's okay.


Their 1D's have been using SD and CF for two generations now, FWIW.Ah, I was thinking that was the case, but I couldn't remember for sure.

*sigh*

Some people just never learn i suppose.
You misunderstand my post, knowing my and ethans financial situation, sometimes it's easier to just go with the stock lens at first. Now he says the kits come with options of two, so he may have a chance for something nicer.

I honestly can't find many lenses the same price range as 18-55 nikkor that's nicer. If there is such a lense let me know and I won't go for a kit.

I generally use the XT, but I have a medium-format digital Hasselblad laying around somewhere as a backup. It's okay.

Seriously, there's something to be said for carrying a compact lightweight camera. It's hard to do low-key street photography when yer carrying a big bulky camera/lens. But hey when you want to shoot people and get sub-pore (http://nikontom.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/skin_original.jpg) resolution, ya gotta pull out the big gun (http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/2500).

You misunderstand my post, knowing my and ethans financial situation, sometimes it's easier to just go with the stock lens at first. Now he says the kits come with options of two, so he may have a chance for something nicer.

I honestly can't find many lenses the same price range as 18-55 nikkor that's nicer. If there is such a lense let me know and I won't go for a kit.

Yeah I think your approach is fine. I would still recommend adding a 50mm f1.8 lens pretty quickly, they're about $100. It is very compact and light (easier to carry and handle) and you will have a lot of fun with the shallow depth of field.

sounds like you are already heading in the direction of canon (great choice). but don't dwell too much, or even spend too much, on which body (xti or xsi). both of them will give you a file large enough (shooting in RAW at least) to blow up to an 11x14 print. yes, a larger sensor is better, but the quality of glass is even more important. i don't know if you are planning to venture to more expensive bodies (40d, 5d or 1d) later or not, but no matter which camera you buy, it is an expense and will be outdated at some point. where as whatever lens you buy is an investment and you will be able to continue using no matter what canon EOS body you are using or upgrade to later.

point being, maybe scrimp on an extra money on a body and try and get a solid lens with good glass (the "L" on canon lenses represents their top glass). just a thought.

and i am not saying this to be boastful in any way, but if you have any questions feel free to hit me up. i run a photo studio and shoot canon for a living.

Yeah I think your approach is fine. I would still recommend adding a 50mm f1.8 lens pretty quickly, they're about $100. It is very compact and light (easier to carry and handle) and you will have a lot of fun with the shallow depth of field.

I found one online for 60$

Maybe I should get another lens instead of the 40$ 8gb memory card.

Before you make any purchases, you need to learn and understand the terminology. The 'f' number refers to the maximum aperture of the lens, which has many implications. Make sure you understand the relationship between aperture and shutter speed on exposure.

A typical pro lens has a maximum aperture of f2.8. Compared to a typical consumer lens with a maximum aperture of f4 or f5.6, the "2.8" lens means:

1. A brighter viewfinder (no matter what aperture you set, the viewfinder views the scene at the maximum aperture).
2. Faster autofocus in less than bright conditions.
3. Shallower depth of field at maximum aperture, for better isolation of the subject (typical for portraits).
4. Higher image quality at f4 to f8 (lenses typically must be stopped down two stops to reach their sharpest potential).
5. The potential for faster shutter speeds to freeze action, whether sports or your two-year-old running around.
6. More rugged build quality.
7. More weight.
8. More bulk.
9. Higher price.

This is just an example of all the crap you should know before you start spending your hard-earned money. Maybe not for your first lens, but once you start building your lens collections, you should know this stuff.

This is why I ask. Thanks carbonlife!

Right now I've got a 45mm f2 lens and a 135mm f2.8 macro lens. The macro always wants a slower shutter speed on the light meter. Is that because of the difference in aperture?

Hmm. Just to throw in my 2 cents. I just got a Sony a100 second hand with the kit 18-70 and 70-300 lenses. I really like it alot, it takes good pictures and feels good in my hand, It has built in image stabilization and an anti dust system. Any of the Minolta Maxxum lenses (from about '85 on) will fit.* Almost all Sigma and Tamron lenses all so fit.

* I have been on the look out for the 50mm f1.7 lens. They go on Eba for around 95-100 bucks on average. I decided to hit the pawnshops around to see if I could do any better. I found one attracted to a 7000 and got them to split the camera and the lens (they had a Maxxum zoom lens loose in another case so they threw it on instead). They guy ask "is it worth 20 bucks to ya?" It looks to have never been off the camera and has had a UV filter on it since new.

Helped a lot. Thanks:).

I'll get myself better lenses probably within a year of buying the camera, but a decent kit lens is a bonus. I'd really rather avoid the local Nikon dealer, they're overpriced and the employees are disagreeable and lazy most of the time. Plus, I tried a Nikon d40 and a Canon Rebel XT, I liked the Rebel much much more. I was considering a Sony because I thought my Minolta lenses might fit it, but that belief was shot down and Sony is out again. Looks like the Rebel now.


What minolta lenses do you have? The alpha mounts will work (the one from Maxxums usually say AF on them.)

Sony is not an option for me, really-no support and my Minolta lenses won't fit it. 1979 model year. I really like the A200, though.

What minolta lenses do you have? The alpha mounts will work (the one from Maxxums usually say AF on them.)

One is the stock lens from my 79 SRT200-Minolta MD Rokkor 45mm f2. The other is a Kitstar multicoated 135mm f2.8 (Just reading off the lens here, literally.) They won't fit the Sony's though-too old.

Bummer its a great camera

Seriously, there's something to be said for carrying a compact lightweight camera. It's hard to do low-key street photography when yer carrying a big bulky camera/lens.Honestly, I don't use the XT all that often. Between the body, battery grip, big lens, and flash unit, it's a bit... large. :) I usually have a Powershot A570IS with me, though, which works out pretty well.

Honestly, I don't use the XT all that often. Between the body, battery grip, big lens, and flash unit, it's a bit... large. :) I usually have a Powershot A570IS with me, though, which works out pretty well.

Oh good, I'm not the only one who likes Powershots.:)

I just think a photographer needs to invest in lenses first. They don't depreciate in value like digital cameras do and if you have any ability and a decent DSLR and some quality glass you can take some good photos.

Think I'll get the XSi kit, then add a nice lens a few months afterwards. Any nice zoom I should look at under $500?