Fifty Plus (50+) - Road or mud, mud or road???

Last night it rained quite heavily, with unusual (for my area) thunderstorms and lightning as well. Today google says it's going to rain again, but the skies are blue with great puffy clouds.

So I'm sitting here in a conundrum. Ride the Roubiax and get some road miles in, throwing caution to the wind in terms of potential rain? Take the Orange Crush over to Florida Canyon and see how she does in the mud? Both?

I'll let you know how it turns out... :)

Definitely the Orange Crush on the trails- Bring a bit of excitement to your riding. And hose down before you take it in the lounge. And don't forget the camera for the muddy trails.

Riding dirt/mud trails after a recent rain really tears them up. I advise you don't do it. Other trail users will be glad you didn't do it too.

Ride the road. At least it's quite sunny 120 miles north of you (approx.) which is where I am! Windy, yeah, but sunny!

Rick / OCRR

Exactly. Riding in the mud is no fun. It tears up the trails. Mud in the knobbies converts them to slicks, which can be no fun at all going down hills. If you have rim brakes, they cease to function. Then you got to clean the whole mess up.

Bottom line: everytime someone rides a muddy trail, a kitten dies. Except in England where their mud must have different characteristics.

Bottom line: everytime someone rides a muddy trail, a kitten dies. Except in England where their mud must have different characteristics.

Every time that somebody rides a muddy trail in the UK, a kitten loses it's tail and is exiled to the Isle of Man.

Exactly. Riding in the mud is no fun. It tears up the trails. Mud in the knobbies converts them to slicks, which can be no fun at all going down hills. If you have rim brakes, they cease to function. Then you got to clean the whole mess up.

Bottom line: everytime someone rides a muddy trail, a kitten dies. Except in England where their mud must have different characteristics.

See what the horses do to the trails- And the trucks and the 4x4's and different trails possibly but what fun.

See what the horses do to the trails.

Yup. Some of that mud isn't mud. Always use a camelback when you mountain bike.

Yup. Some of that mud isn't mud. Always use a camelback when you mountain bike.

Glad you mentioned that-Around Car parks is worse with the dogs.

Over here- We have a different type of trail. There are Footpaths for Peds only- Bridlepaths- for horses Peds and bikes. And White road for all vehicles.

White roads we stay clear of if we can as the mud is sometimes too deep. Footpaths we cannot use----SO Bridle paths. Originally for horses and are tracks linking communities They are Muddy with the horse use but the main problem are the peds. Horses and bikes go through the Mud- that is already there so no further damage. Peds do not like getting their boots dirty so the go to the extremities of the tracks and widen them. A 6ft trail in summer can get to 20ft wide in winter- by constant use of the walkers. And Bikers get the blame.

And one of the problems on a US based bike being sold in the UK- Is that the US bikes do not like Mud and they are not used in mud. You do not ride in it. They block up around the forks as in one of the previous pics I posted. My Italian made Bianchi- Does not block up. Made for the Mud and set up for the mud and although the rider may not relish the mud- it works in mud. And does no further damage to the trails that are already wrecked.

Glad to see that you are playing around with Florida Canyon. It has more hill than the entire state of Florida. ;)

Well, I took the Orange Crush over to Florida Canyon. I honestly didn't know about how riding my trail bike on muddy trails would mess 'em up. But...even with all that rain, they weren't muddy after all! I guess it just soaked in. The trails were firm. I wasn't leaving any tracks behind me. And I found numerous baby heads to ride over!

Beautiful day, bit chilly but quite nice. Maybe I'll take Ruby out for a spin after supper. (<----note my midwest heritage with the word supper. Out here it's really dinner, but then, groceries are put in sacks, not bags, either. And we drink soda, not pop, like in Ohio.)

Well, I took the Orange Crush over to Florida Canyon. I honestly didn't know about how riding my trail bike on muddy trails would mess 'em up.

As I understand it the issue is that bikes leave continuous tracks. All of the rain water runs down the hills in those tracks and erodes progressively deeper ruts. Absent the bicycle tire tracks the water is more likely to run down in sheets and erodes less.

Agree with all who advise not to ride muddy trails. It's bad for the bike and terrible for the trail. But a well drained trail is not muddy. Just use common sense. Many local trails are closed when there has been enough rain to make them vulnerable to damage, which can often be much less subtle than leaving tracks which might lead to erosion.

When you do eventually get your bike good and muddy, remember not to just blast the mud off with a pressurized water nozzle and hose. You'll get mud into places you really don't want it. Better to wipe the bike down with a wet rag than to hose it off. Sometimes I can just wait for the mud to dry and brush it off then wipe the bike down with a damp rag. Be sure to lube the chain and other moving parts after washing.

Definitely the Orange Crush on the trails- Bring a bit of excitement to your riding. And hose down before you take it in the lounge. And don't forget the camera for the muddy trails.

Always listen to Stapfam. That's my motto, and don't forget to hose yourself down from time to time.

Always listen to Stapfam. That's my motto, and don't forget to hose yourself down from time to time.

But not your bike. Wipe, don't hose.

But not your bike. Wipe, don't hose.

I don't mountain bike much anymore but, when I did, I used a hose to blast the mud off all the time. Never once did I have any problem that I could attribute to water or mud infiltration.

After you learn the trails in your area, you know which you can ride when wet and which to avoid. Here, in LA LA land, we have an area called Rocky Peak which is all sandstone. I have been there in a driving rainstorm and there is NO mud. It's almost like concrete. Other areas have clay. This stuff will make your tires grow until you can't even push the bike, you have to carry it. Of course, your feet grow huge and weigh about 50 pounds each when you try to walk in it.
Still other areas have sandy soil and rocks and hold up well to rain. I agree with using common sense and being sensitive to other trail users, but 1 horse, (post hole digger), will do more damage than a motorcycle, or fleet of mtb's.

Seems like I'm coming in late and you've already had your ride, DG - glad it was fun.

Road or off-road bike in muddy weather - I could argue on both sides of the question ( 'cos that's what I do professionally!)

There was a thread on the road forum about the differences between road bikers and mountain bikers. MTB riders, you get points for every kilo of adhering mud. Road bikers, if your bike isn't 40% cleaner than when it came out of the manufacturer's packingcase, you lose points. That would suggest the mountain bike for a grubby day ride.

In UK I did more trail running than trail riding, and although in the main both sides agreed on the pleasures of being outside there was a concern about bikes chewing up the trails. The calculation went

Bikes, 30 lbs bike plus 150 lbs rider, 180 lbs, distributed over 2 contact patches (3 inches by one inch x 2 wheels = 30 lbs per sqinch) constantly

Runners, 150 lbs distributed over alternate contact patches (12 inches by 3 inches once every yard = 4 pounds per squinch) once every 36 inches

So - use an off road bike on well drained gravelly trails, not on muddy ones. Discuss;)

Seems like I'm coming in late and you've already had your ride, DG - glad it was fun.

Road or off-road bike in muddy weather - I could argue on both sides of the question ( 'cos that's what I do professionally!)

There was a thread on the road forum about the differences between road bikers and mountain bikers. MTB riders, you get points for every kilo of adhering mud. Road bikers, if your bike isn't 40% cleaner than when it came out of the manufacturer's packingcase, you lose points. That would suggest the mountain bike for a grubby day ride.

In UK I did more trail running than trail riding, and although in the main both sides agreed on the pleasures of being outside there was a concern about bikes chewing up the trails. The calculation went

Bikes, 30 lbs bike plus 150 lbs rider, 180 lbs, distributed over 2 contact patches (3 inches by one inch x 2 wheels = 30 lbs per sqinch) constantly

Runners, 150 lbs distributed over alternate contact patches (12 inches by 3 inches once every yard = 4 pounds per squinch) once every 36 inches

So - use an off road bike on well drained gravelly trails, not on muddy ones. Discuss;)

I composed a reply, hit send, was told I was timed out, logged on again and hit 'send', and so there I was again. Sorry!

You can delete it.

Tried that myself on a double posting and couldn't. Something not quite right on the server at present. Now back to those trails. Over here- we ride on Bridlepaths so no problems- Footpaths are Verbotten. The area I am in is chalk- well drained base layer that drains well. But it has an overlying 2" of clay. Still drains well but it gets washed away in places so leaving you well drained slippery chalk instead. In the woods- Well drained Soil but clay based. It does clog up the bike- (If you don't have the right bike). The other place we get clay is on the Farm tracks and Forestry trails. Tractors- lorries- 4x4's churn it up.

But Clay is a funny substance. Dry enough and it does not stick to the bike- Too dry and it is like concrete. Then there is the sticky kind (If you don't have the right bike) and there is the other kind that is too wet to stick to anything. It will make the bike and riders a Uniform brown colour but it just falls off the bike- but does get into the brakes- bearing -chains etc.

Now get home and you do have a right mess to clean. I use a hose to wash off theworst- Hose -not pressure spray- and then it is out with the sponge and soapy water. Then wash off again with the hose. Once the bike looks clean- Off with the wheels- take care on the Brakes and saddle and spray with light water displacement oil. Assemble the bike and leave to drain for a couple of hours or days. Then clean the thing cos it will still be filthy.

DG- Why did you ask this question? It would have been easier if you had just taken Ruby out and polished it afterwards.

I justy deleted my message where I said you can delete it. :)

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I don't mountain bike much anymore but, when I did, I used a hose to blast the mud off all the time. Never once did I have any problem that I could attribute to water or mud infiltration.


What can I say? You were lucky. I have seen mud and water get past the seals on hubs and bottom brackets. Avoiding pressurized water is pretty common advice.
Gently running water, taking care not to get it in the wrong place and making sure to drain and dry afterwards as Stapfam describes is not so bad, and probably necessary for the sticky muck he gets into. But I try to avoid using hoses and have been surprised at how well I can clean my bikes without running water.

I wanted to "ride in the mud" because BluesDawg and Stapfam made it sound like so much fun. I don't want to harm the trails, and in this case, although there are bike ruts in the trails, on this particular day the trails were as hard as they were the first time I rode the OC over there, which surprised me given the rain the night before. There were a couple of puddles but they were small and scant.

I wouldn't ride "in the mud" if I thought I would be harming the trails, and there does seem to be a good system of signage about things like that. For instance, there are lots of signs directing bike and ped traffic away from areas that are being rehabilitated with new vegetation. You aren't supposed to ride just anywhere, but stick to the trails.

Frankly I found more water at the Mission Gorge area, with a few fun puddles at the dips in the trail here and there, and they were fun to ride through. They were maybe ten feet wide or so.

Anyway, I don't want to be searching for mud. Just thought it would be kinda fun, like when I was a kid, and we played football (the American version, Stap...) in the backyard when it was muddy or snowy or whatever, because the dirtier we got, the more fun it was!

DG - I'm glad you thought better of riding in the mud. All of the trail systems are precious. By riding through mud you leave tracks, the tracks, when it rains, causes water to tunnel, tunneling causes big huge ruts which tear up trails. One reason why most areas are closed 72 hours after a rain. I can tell you from experience (not on purpose I got caught out in the rain) riding in mud is no fun. The tire just collects the dirt and within minutes you are trying to ride with 10 tons of adobe not to mention all the dirt the wheels flings everywhere.

My motto - after a rain, I am on the road. Safer for me and the ecology.

There is a Wildlife Refuge near here that has some great crush and run gravel roads through very scenic countryside with a few creek crossings and some long hills that we like to ride after a good rain. The gravel packs down to a very smooth and stable surface with no washout or erosion problems at all. Any other time the dust is terrible and the loose gravel can be tricky.

DG - I'm glad you thought better of riding in the mud. All of the trail systems are precious. By riding through mud you leave tracks, the tracks, when it rains, causes water to tunnel, tunneling causes big huge ruts which tear up trails. One reason why most areas are closed 72 hours after a rain. I can tell you from experience (not on purpose I got caught out in the rain) riding in mud is no fun. The tire just collects the dirt and within minutes you are trying to ride with 10 tons of adobe not to mention all the dirt the wheels flings everywhere.

My motto - after a rain, I am on the road. Safer for me and the ecology.


Not trying to cause an argument as we do have the different trails over here. These Bridlepaths-generaly pretty good surface that will take the weight of the horse----But in places they do run through "Damp" areas where the Horses and bikes and farm vehicles (Remember these paths are running over agricultural land- Even if all you can see is a couple of Cows) have broken the surface of the trails. Haven't got any pics of the Mud trails but I do ride them in the winter. Then we have the Footpaths where Peds only can use them. Bikes and horses do not use them. These will run over "Ploughed" Fields on occasions and the path will run through the middle of the field. In summer- They are 6ft wide- In winter 20ft wide as the walkers try to keep their boots clean. Farmers do not like footpaths running over their land.

With the amount of rain we have in the UK- We expect muddy surfaces. We even expect deep mud on the more used trails that run through damp areas. And we also expect that nature will ruin- correct and adapt the trails on its own without any assistance from us. Found some pics of the same section of trail. The summer one and you can see the trail and it looks good. The tandem is in a 12" mud rut- made by a Forestry vehicle- and the wet trail was not there the next day- The "Stream" running across it had washed it away. Just wish I had pictures of the Mud sections- but I haven't. One thing I can say is that on some of my winter Road rides-It looks as though I had been cyclocrossing with the state of the roads and the rear view of me on the Bianchi- was after such a road ride.

And I still say it- Mud riding is fun. Very hard and requires a technique that is different to other forms of riding but the fun factor is way up there. But there is no way you can do it on a bike that is not set up for it.