Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - What's the point of nice wheels on a fixie?

This is my first build and I'm trying to decide between a cheapo Alexrims wheelset for $100 and this Weinmann deep-V wheelset with some nicer (sealed-bearing etc) hubs for $180.

What would I actually get out of nicer wheels, though? I can understand light / aerodynamic wheels for road biking and racing but what's the point for street fixies?




Here are the two sets. If you wanna recommend something else I'm all ears.

http://got.net/%7Edown/craig/misc/fixsilver2.jpg

http://thebicycleshopsantacruz.com/images/wheels/DP18whiteMSW.jpg

go here for more options (http://shop.greatdealsonbikes.com/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=GDOB&Category_Code=TR)

nice wheels are lighter, assembled better, stronger and odds are won't go out of true as fast.

cheap wheels may not even be true when you buy them.

So it's mostly a matter of longevity?

Do good hubs actually make you go faster or what?

you could argue less friction. nice wheels are also lighter. lighter bikes handle and accelerate better.

Sealed bearings are nice, especially if you want to ride in the wet. Repacking a hub isn't a big deal, though.

All that being said, the weinmanns are going to be heavier.

I would highly suggest a formula hub to a mavic open sport wheelset. It should cost you 200 bucks, and WAY better in quality than those 2 wheelsets.

no colors.

very light, fast and durable.

I like good things in life, whether if they're rims for a street fixed gear or a coffee bean grinder for home use.

IMO, depeding on the frame you are using and the type of riding you are doing, will determine what kind of wheels you need. I, for example, primarily use my bike to get around my campus, and traveling in the bay when i go down, and cheap wheels do the trick just fine. If you are planning to try and do trick, hopping, curb jumping, i would recommend something with a little more strength.

If you would like recommendations from people, you might also want to provide what you are planning to do.

But best of luck on the first build.

Shanky

since this is your first fixed bike, buy the cheap ones see how you like riding fixed.

But yes nice wheels are built better, manufacturing is better, stay true longer, and depending on the wheel can absorb road shocks , bumps and etc on the road.

I have a set of Deep V's and Open Pro's , I would say both are nice wheels, but have a different feel when riding.

Now when i comes to hubs (which nicer wheels usually have better hubs) my cheap Formula hubs and my high flanged Phils Wood's are very different, Phil's spin like butter *drool* , versus my Formula's spin nicely.

OK I understand lighter wheels - and the advantage of something like deep-Vs is strength?

I mostly want my bike for decently aggressive urban riding. Not planning on doing tricks but I guess it'd be nice if the wheels didn't fall apart if I did. But put the emphasis on speed / handling rather than tricks.

Price is definitely an issue and I couldn't justify spending an extra $100-200 if the advantage wasn't significant.

None.

strength.

The first upgrade made to any bike, regardless of how awesome or how crappy it is, would be the wheels. Take that for what it is worth.

The title of this thread is flame bait.

My first fixed wheels were a pair of $135 Alex AT450's with Suzue Jr. hubs. While they were not terrible, I did have to true them every month or so and the cones never stayed in place. My next set was built with Velocity Aero's on NOS Campagnolo track hubs for around $700. I've had them for almost a year now and they are just as true and smooth as they were the day I brought them home. I've never regretted spending the extra money.

Quality matters, but start with a decent and affordable wheelset so you have a place for comparison when you upgrade.

The title of this thread is flame bait.

Seriously. This is like asking what's better. A bad factory wheelset, or another bad factory wheelset. Only when you remove this out of the equation with handbuilt stuff do you really start appreciating what makes a nice wheelset, a nice wheelset.

Buy the **** wheelset to start out with, learn how to rentension, stress relieve and true a wheel. Then go to a better stuff (note: better, not necessarily more expensive).

Sorry, didn't mean to flamebait, I'm just clueless and trying to make a decision I'll be happy with for a few years. Is there a handbuilt wheelset that would be better than those that would still be decently affordable?

As for hubs, does the main difference lie in maintenance and longevity? Nicer hubs feel better when I spin them by hand, but I'm not sure if that'd be noticeable when riding them.

The most important trait you should be looking for in a decent wheelset is whether or not they were hand-built by an actual person. Hand-built wheels are sturdier and will last you more than a couple years without getting all wobbly and hoppy.

After you've got that out of the way, deep section wheels (Deep Vs, DP-18s) take more abuse and have less wind drag, but are heavier and more sluggish in the handling. On the opposite end, rims like Mavic Open Pros and Cane Creek Volos will accelerate faster and afford more nimble handling, but I wouldn't want to hit too many potholes with them, much less hop off curbs.

As for hubs, Formulas are as good as you need them to be. Solid construction, and you can always replace the bearing cartridges with much nicer ones. Cheaper hubs are a nightmare, especially when you involve cheap cogs and lockrings.

Beyond that it's a matter of fine craftmanship, expensive material, and shaving grams, and any wheelset that costs more than $400 belongs on a bike used by a serious competitive racing cyclist.

For everyday riding around/commuting/randomly hauling ass down your favorite hill type use, I like the Formula/DP-18 wheelset from www.bicyclewheels.com (http://www.bicyclewheels.com)
I've been using them nearly every day on my conversion for over a year now with no problems and they're still true. For my nicer frame (IRO Angus) I'm about to get a set of the IRO Cold Fusions, as they're supposed to be the best of both worlds. Haven't actually used them yet, but I've done my research and they seem like wise choice.

Whatever you get, make sure at least the front rim sidewall is machined (MSW), and use a brake.

Supervillain - thank you so much. End thread.

...End thread.

You think that's going to stop people from offering more opinions on a topic like this? :)
3,2,1...

Sorry, didn't mean to flamebait, I'm just clueless and trying to make a decision I'll be happy with for a few years. Is there a handbuilt wheelset that would be better than those that would still be decently affordable?

As for hubs, does the main difference lie in maintenance and longevity? Nicer hubs feel better when I spin them by hand, but I'm not sure if that'd be noticeable when riding them.

Handbuilt by a competent and exprerienced wheel builder will ALWAYS be superior to machine built garbage. Even though I despise seal drag on hubs, in practice you really won't notice the difference when you go ride your bike until you start racing.

With the majority of the people riding deep-v's, the advantage of those rims comes down mainly to strength.

With the majority of the people riding deep-v's, the advantage of those rims comes down mainly to strength.

And color-matching.

Its worth pointing out that a person can stress relieve and retension the spokes on a machine built wheel and have something thats basically as good as a hand built wheel. If you go with a budget set of wheels, its worth the extra cost of taking your wheels into a shop and having the spokes stress relieved and the tension adjusted. If the shop guy does it right it will dramatically increase the longevity of the wheel. If your wheel subsequently goes out of true, then you probably need a new LBS.

The most important trait you should be looking for in a decent wheelset is whether or not they were hand-built by an actual person. Hand-built wheels are sturdier and will last you more than a couple years without getting all wobbly and hoppy.

After you've got that out of the way, deep section wheels (Deep Vs, DP-18s) take more abuse and have less wind drag, but are heavier and more sluggish in the handling. On the opposite end, rims like Mavic Open Pros and Cane Creek Volos will accelerate faster and afford more nimble handling, but I wouldn't want to hit too many potholes with them, much less hop off curbs.

As for hubs, Formulas are as good as you need them to be. Solid construction, and you can always replace the bearing cartridges with much nicer ones. Cheaper hubs are a nightmare, especially when you involve cheap cogs and lockrings.

Beyond that it's a matter of fine craftmanship, expensive material, and shaving grams, and any wheelset that costs more than $400 belongs on a bike used by a serious competitive racing cyclist.

For everyday riding around/commuting/randomly hauling ass down your favorite hill type use, I like the Formula/DP-18 wheelset from www.bicyclewheels.com (http://www.bicyclewheels.com)
I've been using them nearly every day on my conversion for over a year now with no problems and they're still true. For my nicer frame (IRO Angus) I'm about to get a set of the IRO Cold Fusions, as they're supposed to be the best of both worlds. Haven't actually used them yet, but I've done my research and they seem like wise choice.

Whatever you get, make sure at least the front rim sidewall is machined (MSW), and use a brake.

Almost all high quality and low quality track hubs, particularly front hubs, are way heavier than they need to be. If you want light, go with a road hub in front.

I do all my own wheels and have been running a few suicidal wheel sets on a couple of my bikes...these were NOS wheel sets that I did not have to build from scratch but rather, rebuilt.

One is built with Normandy high flange hubs, 1.6 (light) butted spokes and Weinmann hoops while the other is Sansin hubs, single gauge spokes and Araya hoops. Both sets are really light.

They've shared better than 8000 km of daily riding and commuting duties with the Sansin / Araya set doing most of the work and have been equally bombproof, have not required any more than a most minute trueing, and I expect them to take me at least another 8000 km.

A good wheel build is so important... I did these for lack of $$$ and when/if I get new wheels I'll either be building them from scratch or rebuilding off the shelf wheels to ensure things are right.

The wheels on my mtb are also standing up to day to day commuting and much harder riding...it's built on a Suzue hub with Araya RM20 hoops.

This is my first build and I'm trying to decide between a cheapo Alexrims wheelset for $100 and this Weinmann deep-V wheelset with some nicer (sealed-bearing etc) hubs for $180.

What would I actually get out of nicer wheels, though? I can understand light / aerodynamic wheels for road biking and racing but what's the point for street fixies?


Do you live in Santa Cruz?

I ride an open pro rear, because i ride an odd wheel size and i like the strength associated with it more than anything. not so much for trickness but just because i need something that can handle anything and stay true

What's the point of nice wheels on a fixie?

I once knew a guy (who shall remain nameless :) who started out riding fixed on a low end Quando hub with gritty 4$$ bearings that felt like sandy tar filled bushings. He kept complaining about speed.

That being said, with whatever wheel you choose: Let the hub be of decent quality, smooth. Sealed IMO.

There is nothing worse then buying cheapo-junky parts and regretting it latter.




PS: A bicycle can range from junk to a holy relic. IMHO: Aim towards the middle. Practically beautiful.

Poor bearing quality is a killer... if my wheels won't spin like perpetual motion machines when the bike is on the stand then I'm not a happy camper.

I really can't believe someone hasn't gone here yet.

http://home.woh.rr.com/drimages/2003/ghetto-bus.jpg

Commentary on so many levels......

Poor bearing quality is a killer... if my wheels won't spin like perpetual motion machines when the bike is on the stand then I'm not a happy camper.

haha, I do this too. Sometimes I will even see how long I can get them to spin.

The lighter the better. Always.

Its worth pointing out that a person can stress relieve and retension the spokes on a machine built wheel and have something thats basically as good as a hand built wheel. If you go with a budget set of wheels, its worth the extra cost of taking your wheels into a shop and having the spokes stress relieved and the tension adjusted. If the shop guy does it right it will dramatically increase the longevity of the wheel. If your wheel subsequently goes out of true, then you probably need a new LBS.

I disagree. As I understand it (I've seen video,) The rim itself is pretty distorted as the machine starts out by putting near full tension on each spoke when it first assembles the wheel. This pulls the wheel into an oval (causing some mnor, but permanent distortion) before it's fully laced and the machine starts passing it through the sensors to true it. This means you'll have a very hard time getting both, even spoke tension and a round/true wheel.

You will not gain any advantage by choosing a road front over a track HF front, other than saving money....looks crap, slightly weaker wheel build, and a tiny bit lighter.

Tires will make a bigger difference than wheel choice, unless you ride fixed gear Zipps. But even then...

What's the point of nice wheels on a fixie?

I once knew a guy (who shall remain nameless :) who started out riding fixed on a low end Quando hub with gritty 4$$ bearings that felt like sandy tar filled bushings. He kept complaining about speed.

That being said, with whatever wheel you choose: Let the hub be of decent quality, smooth. Sealed IMO.

There is nothing worse then buying cheapo-junky parts and regretting it latter.




PS: A bicycle can range from junk to a holy relic. IMHO: Aim towards the middle. Practically beautiful.

That really doesn't have to do with the hub so much, unless it's warped or deformed. I bought a crappy pair of Vuelta XRPs for my beater and threw on some Enduro Max bearings in there, it spins great.

I also re-tensioned and trued the wheels, now I can't tell a difference between them and the Mavic/Formula wheels I use, unless I'm using different tires on each.

I disagree. As I understand it (I've seen video,) The rim itself is pretty distorted as the machine starts out by putting near full tension on each spoke when it first assembles the wheel. This pulls the wheel into an oval (causing some mnor, but permanent distortion) before it's fully laced and the machine starts passing it through the sensors to true it. This means you'll have a very hard time getting both, even spoke tension and a round/true wheel.

I have hand corrected numerous machine built wheels and have always been able to achieve a wheel that "stands" (holds its tension and true) as reliably as a hand built wheel.

Hand correcting a machine built wheel lets you achieve even spoke tension and the right amount of spoke tension. As long as you have those, a slight wobble in the rim is not very important, in fact its practically unavoidable with perfectly even spoke tension, because no rim starts out as being perfectly round. Bike wheels don't usually rotate fast enough for a slight wobble to make any difference.

The difference is noticed in brake calibration.

edit: On topic, the difference is noticed in durability, ie Al metal fatigue

You will not gain any advantage by choosing a road front over a track HF front, other than saving money....looks crap, slightly weaker wheel build, and a tiny bit lighter.

A front (road) hub can save you around 100 grams (and possibly more), which is a lot of weight for a single component. Road hubs can be cheaper and they come in a greater variety of spoke counts. Those are pretty substantial benefits for a single component. Its absurd to think that a road hub makes the wheel weak...a lot of factors determine the strength and durability of a wheel.

So it's mostly a matter of longevity?

Do good hubs actually make you go faster or what?

Theoretically, good hubs have lower rolling resistance. However, the difference isn't something that you're likely to notice in terms of resistance (it's less difference than +-2 psi in your tires makes). What will be noticeably different is the "feel". Good hubs feel better, make the bike more fun to ride.

Kotts

The difference is noticed in brake calibration.

edit: On topic, the difference is noticed in durability, ie Al metal fatigue

Is this what you think, or is it based on your experience building, tensioning, and riding several wheelsets for thousands of miles? I really think you are exaggerating the differences here:)

Fatigue comes from riding undertensioned wheels. Its doesn't really matter if a machine or a human put the wheel together...as long as the spokes are properly tensioned and that tension is maintained, the wheel will hold its true and last a long time (assuming its not abused in other ways).

Work at a shop pt, so it's not all my own riding.

My first statement is regarding how close you can have the pads to the rim. Not too debatable.

My 2nd statement is open to debate, but as I have seen the process, have read a few write ups about it, and built wheels as well as assembled many new bikes (and corrected the tension/true,) I stand by my statement.

Work at a shop pt, so it's not all my own riding.

My first statement is regarding how close you can have the pads to the rim. Not too debatable.

I don't understand...seems to me you are assuming that a machine built wheel can't be trued as accuractly as a hand built wheel, which is incorrect of course.



My 2nd statement is open to debate, but as I have seen the process, have read a few write ups about it, and built wheels as well as assembled many new bikes (and corrected the tension/true,) I stand by my statement.

I ride and have ridden a combination of hand-built and machine built wheels. The machine built wheels are stress-relieved and trued by me, using the same methods I use when building custom wheels. They have lasted as long and as reliably as any wheel I have ever built by hand. Its true that machine built wheels are often made with lower grade components, while hand built wheels are most often made with higher grade components. Machine built wheels are also more likely to loose tension if they are not hand adjusted. Low quality components and lack of maintenance (mostly the later) explains why machine built wheels are inferior. But with equivalent parts, I maintain there is no significant difference between a hand built and machine built wheel, as long as the later is initially hand adjusted...that was my original point.

I like good things in life, whether if they're rims for a street fixed gear or a coffee bean grinder for home use.


Method Man says that no one actually uses expensive bean grinders to grind coffee.


True or false?:D

I don't understand...seems to me you are assuming that a machine built wheel can't be trued, which is incorrect of course.




I ride and have ridden a combination of hand-built and machine built wheels. The machine built wheels are stress-relieved and trued by me, using the same methods I use when building custom wheels. They have lasted as long and as reliably as any wheel I have ever built by hand. Its true that machine built wheels are often made with lower grade components, while hand built wheels are most often made with higher grade components. Machine built wheels are also more likely to loose tension if they are not hand adjusted. Low quality components and lack of maintenance (mostly the later) explains why machine built wheels are inferior. But with equivalent parts, I maintain there is no significant difference between a hand built and machine built wheel, as long as the later is initially hand adjusted...that was my original point.


Pt 1: A wheel typically cannot (I don't like absolute statements) be trued/rounded perfectly if paying mind to spoke tension. This also depends on the accuracy of the original hoop, but I contend the machine building process permanently bends hoops into wobbly ovals,.

Pt. 2: See Pt 1.

I think we're coming to an impass and will have to agree to disagree. It just good knowing that I'm right. ;)

Method Man says that no one actually uses expensive bean grinders to grind coffee.


True or false?:D

Sometimes I call my crack rocks "coffee" and I only use the best to grind that **** up. So false?

Sometimes I call my crack rocks "coffee" and I only use the best to grind that **** up. So false?




Crackheads grind rocks? That's wierd. But what is "standard" crackhead protocol? I actually don't want to know.

Theoretically, good hubs have lower rolling resistance. However, the difference isn't something that you're likely to notice in terms of resistance (it's less difference than +-2 psi in your tires makes). What will be noticeably different is the "feel". Good hubs feel better, make the bike more fun to ride.

Kotts

I don't buy this, but I do like high end shimano hubs for their nice borazon treated cups and cones.

I contend the machine building process permanently bends hoops into wobbly ovals.

I doubt it...or at least its not as extreme as you seem to be claiming. Its certainly not enough to interfere with braking or render the wheel untruable.

I'm not claiming any of what you just attributed to me. What I am claiming is that you can't polish a turd.

99% of bikes have these wheels. They're obviously good enough. Just not good.