Foo - Random thought about interracial relationships.

The other day I was searching for something on google, I think it was like for a battery or something and I ran into a discussion thread that went for like 500 pages. Some black girl wanted to know why white guys never asked her out because she felt more attracted to white guys than black guys, and some people gave the typical "white guys are intimidated by black women" comment. It soon got into a racial argument, and some ignorant person get's on there and says "the way nature intended it is for people to be with their color, whites with whites, blacks with blacks, brown with brown, you don't see blue birds matings with eagles do you?".

I started thinking..... where do people with these radical feelings get their beliefs from? I really wonder what these people are taught or told, or have experienced to think such a radically ridiculous thing. Then I start to wonder, is it some kind of insecurity? Is it jealously because all they can score are hairy white hicks like themselves(sorry for the generalization). What mentally causes a person to feel such hate towards a couple exersizing their personal preferences to be with eachother regardless of the shade of their skin.

how many posts before this gets moved to P&R. taking all bets.

It's simple. They were taught it.
I live in a state where many people are what I call, closet racists. They do it with subtlety.
I'm half Asian and by being half Asian, was the only "minority" in my neighborhood for the longest time. My wife is Caucasian and so our daughters look mostly Caucasian and we are members of the predominant church here so I really haven't noticed any racism towards me or my family. What I do notice is that when a Hispanic family moved in to our neighborhood, the only other minorities besides me now, neighbors on both sides of them put their house up for sale. Our daughters are the only kids in the neighborhood that play with their kids. It's too bad. The father and mother of the home are awesome people.

I'm going to assume you're mormon since you're in Utah.

It's simple. They were taught it.
Yup.

The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

It's simple. They were taught it.Yep.

I want to hope that this phenomenon will become less common as time goes on, but it seems that it may just evolve into something different, yet the same. Feh.

it is something you are taught

It's simple. They were taught it.
I live in a state where many people are what I call, closet racists. They do it with subtlety.
I'm half Asian and by being half Asian, was the only "minority" in my neighborhood for the longest time. My wife is Caucasian and so our daughters look mostly Caucasian and we are members of the predominant church here so I really haven't noticed any racism towards me or my family. What I do notice is that when a Hispanic family moved in to our neighborhood, the only other minorities besides me now, neighbors on both sides of them put their house up for sale. Our daughters are the only kids in the neighborhood that play with their kids. It's too bad. The father and mother of the home are awesome people.

If it were me that moved in Id buy both houses and sell them cheap to good family members! Then the other neighbors would sell and so on! and so on! Hahahahahahahahaha! Viva Puerto Rico! Hahahahaha! ;)

Saying "they were taught" kind of begs the ultimate question, though. At some point back in the dark recesses of history, somebody (or multiple somebosies) had to have come up with racial biases without someone teaching them. So where did it ultimately begin?

FWIW (and it ain't much), my sense is that racial bigotry has a major part of its origins in fear of the new, the different, the unknown. It is a fairly common human reaction to fear that with which we are not familiar. It is also not uncommon for people to demonize that which they fear. So it's not too big a leap from "that person looks/acts/speaks/worships in a way with which I am not familiar" to "that person is bad/inferior/evil/to be shunned."

I don't claim that this is all of what's going on. And to the extent this hypothesis is correct, I certainly do not believe that it justifies continued bigotry - we should be using our brains to overcome pointless fears, not wallow in them. I also do not believe that just because fear-based discrimintation appears to be a common human reaction means that we should just shrug our shoulders and accept it. But it does mean that overcoming such biases is likely to be a ongoing issue that folks will be wrestling with long after we have all become fertilizer.

Saying "they were taught" kind of begs the ultimate question, though. At some point back in the dark recesses of history, somebody (or multiple somebosies) had to have come up with racial biases without someone teaching them. So where did it ultimately begin?

FWIW (and it ain't much), my sense is that racial bigotry has a major part of its origins in fear of the new, the different, the unknown. It is a fairly common human reaction to fear that with which we are not familiar. It is also not uncommon for people to demonize that which they fear. So it's not too big a leap from "that person looks/acts/speaks/worships in a way with which I am not familiar" to "that person is bad/inferior/evil/to be shunned."

I don't claim that this is all of what's going on. And to the extent this hypothesis is correct, I certainly do not believe that it justifies continued bigotry - we should be using our brains to overcome pointless fears, not wallow in them. I also do not believe that just because fear-based discrimintation appears to be a common human reaction means that we should just shrug our shoulders and accept it. But it does mean that overcoming such biases is likely to be a ongoing issue that folks will be wrestling with long after we have all become fertilizer.
The sad thing is that it will NEVER end :( We (all races) can interbreed till we all look exactly the same, I guaranty some one will say,"Ever notice the whoever family? they sound, different!" or "Look at them! I hate they way they walk!" or some other stupid ****! :mad:

FWIW (and it ain't much), my sense is that racial bigotry has a major part of its origins in fear of the new, the different, the unknown. It is a fairly common human reaction to fear that with which we are not familiar. It is also not uncommon for people to demonize that which they fear. So it's not too big a leap from "that person looks/acts/speaks/worships in a way with which I am not familiar" to "that person is bad/inferior/evil/to be shunned."


I think in the beginning it wasn't about fear, but about who it is OK to exploit and who it is not OK to exploit. Different skin color or language or religion made someone not a part of our group, therefore it was OK to exploit them. Over time, fear and contempt develop as people need a better reason than "they're different" to justify exploitation.

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

:(Sadly there is much truth to the song. Maybe there will come a day when we are all golden. Won't that be wonderful!;):)

Saying "they were taught" kind of begs the ultimate question, though. At some point back in the dark recesses of history, somebody (or multiple somebosies) had to have come up with racial biases without someone teaching them. So where did it ultimately begin?

FWIW (and it ain't much), my sense is that racial bigotry has a major part of its origins in fear of the new, the different, the unknown. It is a fairly common human reaction to fear that with which we are not familiar. It is also not uncommon for people to demonize that which they fear. So it's not too big a leap from "that person looks/acts/speaks/worships in a way with which I am not familiar" to "that person is bad/inferior/evil/to be shunned."

I don't think this is true. At bottom I think these patterns of behavior emerged from the need to exploit others.

When Columbus arrived in the new world, the Arawaks greeted him with open arms. However, if you are Columbus and need to show a return to the queen who funded your voyage of exploration, it is in your best interest to see the Arawak Indians as sub human. Otherwise it is difficult to justify working them all to death.

In the south, plantation owners realized that poor whites and blacks were actually getting along a bit too well. Hence they outlawed interracial marriages and extended more rights and privileges to white indentured servants and enlisted them as partners in exploiting the labor of sub-human black slaves as a way of heading off a disastrous class conflict.

I could go on, but the point is that there is not some innate fear of one another at work here. It is rather the case that it is difficult to ruthlessly exploit others if you see them as being equally human, so you willfully ignore their humanity and reclassify them as animals.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41F5W4TN5FL.jpg

http://libcom.org/files/zinn.jpg

I like black girls, It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of me.. I dated a black girl before, I don't like the "black speak" or extra large rear ends, but she didn't have either. I never brought her to meet my mother though, so I guess there was some friction there.

Man, this is getting deep. Especially for a thread of Pheard's.


extra large rear endsThat's more like it.

My take: Humans are social creatures and need to find groups to identify with. Beyond family, we identify with people with whom we have something in common, the core of which is language and culture. My understanding is that when there were waves of Irish and Italian immigrants, they were hated because they were seen as foreign cultures and a threat to neighborhoods and jobs. It wasn't about race. But with blacks and the Chinese that were imported to build the railroads, well you could spot 'em a mile away, it was much easier to see them as being "too different." I still assert it's actually about culture: you see a face of a different race and assume that person's culture is too different to relate to. I believe there are actually very few true racists. What is much more common are people who are uncomfortable interacting with people of another culture, because they grew up in a community that taught them to be fearful. My example: In college (in Berkeley) I knew a guy who was a white guy from the deep south. He said he grew up in a community where everyone told jokes about blacks, and while he may have interacted occasionally with blacks, he never actually got to know anyone who was black until he went to VMI for undergrad. The military style training forced him to form relationships with people he wouldn't have otherwise, and he discovered that the blacks he worked with and formed friendships with were no different than anyone else. He was pretty disappointed at how his childhood community trained him to be incredibly prejudiced. So I think for most it's about lack of exposure to other cultures, and communities which basically breed fear of people who are different.

I love being in a cool place like the Bay Area. I went to this Japanese restaurant a while back that was in a Chinese shopping complex in Cupertino. All the employees and all the customers were Chinese. I thought that was hilarious. Years ago I worked in a company owned by a Jordanian dude. A lot of the employees were Arabs from various countries (Jordan, Libya, Egypt, Iraq). I loved how one minute they would argue heatedly with one another, arms gesticulating wildly, faces turning red, then the next minute they would be perfectly calm and going on to the next thing. People are fun and interesting! To those communities which teach their children to be fearful: Your loss.

I could go on, but the point is that there is not some innate fear of one another at work here. It is rather the case that it is difficult to ruthlessly exploit others if you see them as being equally human, so you willfully ignore their humanity and reclassify them as animals.


Especially if your religion allows you to debate whether or not people of a different 'race', or different sex, have souls. Because if they don't, you can happily use those people for your own gain.

East Hill

I could go on, but the point is that there is not some innate fear of one another at work here. It is rather the case that it is difficult to ruthlessly exploit others if you see them as being equally human, so you willfully ignore their humanity and reclassify them as animals.


The fear is that the "power" one has over another may diminish, weather it be because of the acknowledgment of their humanity or a realization of self doubt.

People are fun and interesting!In-freaking-deed.

In-freaking-deed.

^^^ Another TMI post from X. Freaking deed. Wow. *shakes head*

^^^ Another TMI post from X. Freaking deed. Wow. *shakes head*Well, that was a stretch. :p

I never brought her to meet my mother though, so I guess there was some friction there.

I've dated outside my race and I've more than a few racist family members. My solution was to stop talking to them. My parents are bigoted to some degree but they are aware of the fact that they are backward and fall in line easily enough.

The fear is that the "power" one has over another may diminish, weather it be because of the acknowledgment of their humanity or a realization of self doubt.

Right, that is certainly the case with white/black relations in the south.

What mentally causes a person to feel such hate towards a couple exersizing their personal preferences to be with eachother regardless of the shade of their skin.

Oh by the way, Jon? Even though pink is a shade of skin, it's not a race. :p

is this a bad time to bring up stuffwhitepeoplelike ?

Yah.

is this a bad time to bring up stuffwhitepeoplelike ?

GGGAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!

Yes.

East Hill

is this a bad time to bring up stuffwhitepeoplelike ?

never a bad time....besides, it's not like the blog is "stuff all white people like" or "stuff only white people like"

I am a bad person.

I am a bad person.Well duh.

Thing is, it's 99% of the time not "racial" (which is a misappropriated term,) but cultural or religious BS that causes people to be racist. Selective reading of holy books and exploitative social hierarchies are couched in terms that supposedly give life meaning and/or regional pride, it's stupid.

BTW, my current "sweetheart" or whatever is "black" and we get a lot of dumb looks from dumb people but I couldn't care less, because it's a much better litmus test than knowing someone for months and then figuring out they're a racist prick.

I've dated all kinds of girls, not a "fetishist" or whatever, but seriously, when I date a white girl I know she watched Peanuts every Christmas, probably was either Catholic or Protestant growing up, and the family owned a copy of Frampton Comes Alive, just like me. With people outside of my own cultural/ethnic background, there are more interesting things to talk about and learn about each other. I dated a girl from Asia for a while who was just so excited that people here still wore cowboy hats she couldn't stand it. That beats listening to a WASP girl talk about her parent's divorce all to Hell.

BTW, my current "sweetheart" or whatever is "black" and we get a lot of dumb looks from dumb people but I couldn't care less, because it's a much better litmus test than knowing someone for months and then figuring out they're a racist prick.
.

i am black she is white, kid looks mexican, we got more funny looks in arizona than alabama the family photo floated around bike forums a few days ago.

race isnt so much of an issue as culture.

it is picking up people out side of your culture that gives you grief. hanging out at the pagan book store you are likely to see couple roll in just short of being different species, but at the golf course, the tend to stick to their own social class

... and some ignorant person get's on there and says "the way nature intended it is for people to be with their color, whites with whites, blacks with blacks, brown with brown, you don't see blue birds matings with eagles do you?".

Interesting, because I heard that argument from one of the guys at work last week (he's pretty much a dumbass anyway, but that's beside the point... maybe).

Get this, though -- he brought it up because he said that the rise of disorders like autism (which was on the TV news at that moment) is due to mixed-race marriages & couples.

Huh??

I tried to counter with the idea that genetic diversity helps avoid problems like those, so mised-race births would likely result in fewer genetic disorders. A corollary would be comparing purebred dogs with mutts, with the mutts having fewer genetic disorders.

Then he goes, "Well, look at the Japanese, they're smart, they must really know something about this, and they really work hard to stay as a pure race."

Personally, I think that the idea of every race staying separate is weird. We had a black family next door when I was young, and their mother said to my mom one day, "Thank you for letting your little boy play with mine." Well, why wouldn't I? He was just another kid, living next door. I walked to school every day with a black girl from my class, my best friend for several years was another black classmate, my sister & I always played with some black sisters down the block, I dated a filipina girl my first year in DC, etc etc.

What also sucks is that my saying, "I have friends who are minorities," can get me labeled as a racist. :rolleyes:

Yeah, every once in a while I'd bring a guy home to meet my folks, then lie and tell them he was my lover. Gotta test them on all boundaries, ya know?

In high school, everyone Black, Latino, and Asian is gangsta, and everyone white isn't. 2 different social circles.

Well, some Asians are all nerdy with the grades, but only a bit.

Max, what are you talking about? Geeze.

Max, what are you talking about? Geeze.

High school

It just depends on the person.
The color doesn't scare me but
we have to have some things
in common and enjoy one
anothers personalities.

I love being in a cool place like the Bay Area. I went to this Japanese restaurant a while back that was in a Chinese shopping complex in Cupertino. All the employees and all the customers were Chinese. I thought that was hilarious. Years ago I worked in a company owned by a Jordanian dude. A lot of the employees were Arabs from various countries (Jordan, Libya, Egypt, Iraq). I loved how one minute they would argue heatedly with one another, arms gesticulating wildly, faces turning red, then the next minute they would be perfectly calm and going on to the next thing. People are fun and interesting! To those communities which teach their children to be fearful: Your loss.
Exactly, I love that about the bay area too. For the last week I've gone into a different taqueria almsot every day, been into a latin food market, been places I never woulda gone otherwise, especially if I wasn't in the bay area. I love being able to go into china town, and go to a chinese restaurant. See different people, the interesting thing is, living here long enough you begin to feel weird if you're in a place with all one race, the normal thing is a mix of everything here.



BTW, my current "sweetheart" or whatever is "black" and we get a lot of dumb looks from dumb people but I couldn't care less, because it's a much better litmus test than knowing someone for months and then figuring out they're a racist prick.

I've dated all kinds of girls, not a "fetishist" or whatever, but seriously, when I date a white girl I know she watched Peanuts every Christmas, probably was either Catholic or Protestant growing up, and the family owned a copy of Frampton Comes Alive, just like me. With people outside of my own cultural/ethnic background, there are more interesting things to talk about and learn about each other. I dated a girl from Asia for a while who was just so excited that people here still wore cowboy hats she couldn't stand it. That beats listening to a WASP girl talk about her parent's divorce all to Hell.
This sort of happens to me, when I'm in my girls neighborhood, she lives in the latin neighborhood. I don't know what it is about my car, but every person we pass on the street, they turn to me and stare at me with a dead stare because I have a latin girl in my side seat? I don't know. I agree with you though kris, I was just thinking the other day, how different things would be if she had a boring white family like I do. I actually somewhat enjoy the culture, the food alot, and how they do things, and that they are family oriented, though I don't think she knows this. :p I think at first it was shocking to me, but honestly it's way cooler than a white family. Not to say white families aren't like this, but latin culture is like this.

People that worry about race and color need something more important in their lives to dwell on. Who cares? Fine is fine. Last woman I dated was African American. Got some funny looks from her neighbors the first time I got out of her car and had my hair down (she lives in Oakland).

sometimes i wonder if we're not still living in the dark ages.

sometimes i wonder if we're not still living in the dark ages.

in many ways, we probably are.

It's simple. They were taught it.

Bingo. Many people can only recognize the races they've been taught to recognize. For example, I hear the word "Asian" used to describe people with certain attributes. Try telling someone who is Japanese they look like they're Chinese and see where that gets you. There are a zillion subgroups that many Westerners can't really recognize. All Caucasians may look the same to others, but certain groups will take great offense if you think they look the same as someone with traditionally Jewish features. The same can be said for any major racial group.

The dumb thing is that the number of mixed race people is huge and rapidly growing in terms of numbers and complexity, yet this is still a sensitive issue. Plenty of people probably don't really know what they are, but we somehow get labeled (or label ourselves) as coming from the smallest group we can identify with even if the connection is only through a grandparent. It's like we're looking for ways to divide ourselves.

I made an interesting observation when my oldest daughter was just a wee bairn, she was walking but was not really speaking a great deal.

Strange Caucasian women terrified her (her grandmother and aunts were okay) while she had no problem being talked to or picked up by darker skinned women that she didn't even know.

We were at the wading pool one afternoon and I had her on my shoulder (she was looking behind me) and she started climbing over me to go to who I thought was her mom. She was actually responding to the two darker skinned latino women behind me who none of us knew. They were a little surprised that the little "white" girl wanted to go to them until they saw her mom.

Shortly after this we were shopping a a couple of Caucasian women dared to speak to the cute little girl who just screamed to high heaven.

She also had the same issues with dark skinned men.

We joked that she was a racist.

In reality, she was at a point of development where her view of the world was pretty limited and women who did not look like her mom (who is half Metis and quite dark skinned) scared her as they probably did not look right. The same applied to men in that to her, men had to be white although her grandfather and uncle got a pass since she had developed a relationship with them from an early age.

Another thing was that on both sides of the family, we are dark haired people and to a toddler with a limited world experience, people with lighter blond hair might have also looked very odd and even frightening.

I believe that xenophobia is innate but is something we outgrow as we develop and have positive interactions with people from other cultures and find that they are indeed, pretty much the same as us.

I think it is a very good thing that my children have such a diverse heritage and live in a world that is becoming more and multi-cultural as in an environment like this, it becomes difficult for parents and families to teach hate.

Mind you... blond women still scare me a little.

:)

http://rondaniel.com/blog/TheJerk.jpg

This is an interesting thread. :) Carry on...

Racism is a lot more subtle than it used to be and does not have to be outright abuse or about personal relationships.

I've noticed this subtle racism in BF a lot. How often do you see disparaging condescending comments whenever bikes are made in China? Geez...no one forced american companies to outsource manufacturing to china. And why should all products be expensive high end stuff..consumers want a choice and there is enough room in any market for cheap simple stuff to expensive niche stuff. Would mass production in a home factory be any better than imported? It would just be more expensive not better. People object to chinese imports but are all in favour of exporting ... hypocracy stinks. And do you get those comments about European bikes imported to the USA? There are low end products from anywhere.

How often do you hear comments like I guess even they can afford a decent bike...people just like to exert their superiority without any idea about other races/cultures and entire countries. Go and see how wealthy people in parts of China are. The fastest growing and largest markets for luxury brands (especially clothes and cars) is China. I go to China for business and the standard of living is generally much higher than in the UK.

Racism is a lot more subtle than it used to be and does not have to be outright abuse or about personal relationships.

I've noticed this subtle racism in BF a lot. How often do you see disparaging condescending comments whenever bikes are made in China? Geez...no one forced american companies to outsource manufacturing to china. And why should all products be expensive high end stuff..consumers want a choice and there is enough room in any market for cheap simple stuff to expensive niche stuff. Would mass production in a home factory be any better than imported? It would just be more expensive not better. People object to chinese imports but are all in favour of exporting ... hypocracy stinks. And do you get those comments about European bikes imported to the USA? There are low end products from anywhere.

How often do you hear comments like I guess even they can afford a decent bike...people just like to exert their superiority without any idea about other races/cultures and entire countries. Go and see how wealthy people in parts of China are. The fastest growing and largest markets for luxury brands (especially clothes and cars) is China. I go to China for business and the standard of living is generally much higher than in the UK.

i notice that all the time.

you should hear some of the stupid comments i hear when we send stuff over to India and it doesn't come back just right. 95% of the time we didn't have it set up correctly to begin with.

it's like we're really interested in paying people to be a scapegoat. ever since we started outsourcing we can just blame them for delays, mistakes, poor quality, etc. and brush our hands clean.

I think when we can finally finally get beyond these petty issues as a species, we maybe, just maybe might be ready for what awaits us beyond our earthy grasp at this point. I sure wouldn't humanity spewing forth juust yet.

My wife is Filipino and I'm Mr. Freckled Caucasian. Our kids are drop dead gorgeous..if I say so myself.
I REALLY do believe that mixed kids are some of the most beautiful kids you'll ever see. Luckily in Canada, I've not come across any racist nonsense regarding my love. I'd be pretty combative if I did. That is not to sat it doesn't exist in Canada. Backwoods ignorance knows no borders.

In regards to outsourcing.... it went overseas to be done cheaper.
Amazing how something can be made a world away, transported across the planet at a price point that STILL makes it cheap then creating it domestically. Seems WE'RE the ones doing something wrong.