Road Cycling - Getting the right size 5200?

I purchased a 58cm 2004 Trek 5200 a couple months ago.

It road way better than anything else I have ever rode and I enjoyed biking more than ever. Except it did not feel totally right, especially down in the drops.
I felt "constrained". I thought I just needed to get used to the bike, but after 20 or 30 rides, there was little or no improvement in that position.

The shop I bought it at said it was the right size for road riding/racing (56 for crits, 58 for road riding/racing, 60 for touring). They did not have a 60 in stock for me to try when I bought it.

I contacted them (8 hours out of town) and they say it will cost me $500CDN to "trade-in" for a 60 if that is what I want to do. They suggest swapping the 110 stem for a 130. I read here that is not always the best thing to do.

I am 6 feet 1.75 inches tall, 34.5 inch inseam (measured "tight"), weigh 210lbs.

I used the competitivecyclist.com fit calculator and it said a 59cm C-T seat tube (Trek uses C-T), 60cm top tube, 126 stem, non-setback seatpost.

The 58 measures 58 / 57.2 / 110
The 60 measures 60 / 58.2 / 120
I think the Trek 5200 seatpost would be considered "setback" so I don't know how that fits into the equation. But it looks like a 60 is much closer on the top tube and stem length.

I went to another Trek dealer who had a 60 in stock. He first insisted on fitting me better to the 58 that I had. The seatpost was raised to maximum, the seat moved back 1.5cm. It was an improvement, but the drops were still a problem. I then climbed on the 60 and *everything* was better. I could get into the drops no problem, the "constraint" was gone, I could breathe easier.

The second dealer said he never would have sold me a 58 without trying me on a 60, even if he had to order it in. He also suggested that had he sold me a 58 and I was unhappy, he would do a straight swap for a 60 for no more money.

I talked to 3 other Trek dealers and given my measurements, they all suggested that a 60 is where I most likely would fit best.

What do I do now?

1. Spend $70 on a 130 stem and try to be happy with the 58.
2. Trade the 58 for a 60 at the original dealer for $500
3. Trade the 58 for a 60 at the second dealer for $400
4. Push the first dealer to do a straight across swap (maybe call the Trek rep?)
5. Sell the 58 on E-bay and give up on this sport that I have come to love (just kidding!)

Thanks in advance for any responses.

This is an incredible forum and I am happy to be part of it!

I currently have the same problem with my 5200. I bought a 56 cm and really would fit better on a 58. My seatpost is a bit past the min insertion point already and that isn't enough. Also I need a bit more room as far as arm length goes. I solved some of my arm issues by buying aerobars, but that doesn't help when I'm not using them.

Personally, as you already spent alot of money on your bike, trading it in on one that fits for $400-to $500 seems like a slap in the face. I'd go with a longer stem (which a lot of people replace anyway) and a setback seatpost. Hoplefully that will be enough to make it fit better.

Go back to where you bought it and kick their ass.I bought a Voodoo Limba cyclocross bike in 2000.It was too big.The store ordered a smaller frame and swapped all the parts no cost to me.That's what a good store should do.You need the right size FRAME.Don't dick around with the seatpost and stem.Get the right size frame for you.

I would talk to Trek before paying anything on a trade in. Maybe you will get satisfaction from them. (At least you will throw a little stink on the original seller.) If that does not work I would go for the cheaper trade in. I would also have someone else re-do your fit. A 60cm top tube seems pretty long for someone your height. On my 62cm 5200 the top tube is only 59cm. If it ends up you really need that length I would look for a Lemond dealer and try those out. Lemond generally has longer top tubes than other makers.

The 60 felt better in the drops because the height difference between the stem and saddle decreased as compared to your current 58. Not only might a longer stem work, but definitely additional rise of that stem would be more beneficial in your confort level.

George

Remember this...

Trek measure their frames center to top.

Many other companies (Cannondale for example) measure center to center. A 60 Cannondale is not a 60 Trek. It's about a 62 Trek...but the top tubes are not the same length. My Cannondale has a 59c top tube.

A 60 Trek 5200 measured c to t has a 58.2c top tube. A 62 5200 has a 59.2c top tube. Trek's 62 is about the 60 Cannondale in a 5200.

A 58 Trek 5200 has a top tube lenght of 57.2c. That may be why you feel cramped. Two c too short. But I am guessing here not seeing you as some folks have long torsos and some have short torsos. But at least you can see the difference between the bikes and how a couple of mfgs measure their bikes.

If you go on the websites of the various companies, you will see a box or place somewhere in their bike sections on geometry. This will tell you the seat tube size and give you the top tube length as well. I ride a 60 Cannondale with a 34" inseam. Since we are about the same size, I am guessing your Trek is about 4c too small.

Your bike shop should stand behind their measurements...if they had you stand over the top tube, they should be ashamed of themselves selling a $2400 bike that way. Although Trek does give a "standover" height.

Question...when you are riding the bike in the drops, are your knees coming up inside of your elbows? In other words, could your knee and elbow hit each other while pedaling (hopefully I am making my question clear)? As there should be about a inch of space between the knee and elbow (Knee up when at the top of the pedal stroke, elbow at a 90ish degree angle in the drops) I see a lot of folks riding bikes where the knee is inside of the elbow, complaining of back pain...bike does not fit.

BTW, I am also guessing that you might have a handlebar width issue, too. The handlebars get wider on the bigger bikes. That is a huge issue with breathing. Are your shoulders hunched up, width-wise? Typically, a bike that is too small is not only the height and length of the frame, but the handlebar width, too.

I realize I may have given you back some info you had, too...but I sell these and thought a comparison would be helpful.

Stems, headsets, top tubes -- all mysteries to me, but am appalled that this store would not stand behind their product (and you should be as well). You spent a lot of money for an absolutely fabulous bike and should be treated right! I think you should talk to your store again and don't be afraid to let them know that you're angry and that you've been to other bike stores that agree that the bike they sold you was the wrong size. Then insist that they fix the problem caused by their lack of professional evaluation (it really is the store's expertise that you relied on in buying the bike). If they refuse, ask THEM to provide you the name of their Trek rep so that you can contact them directly.

In total agreement with Joe! Sounds like the shop didn't fit you correctly for your style of riding. You spent a lot of $$$ on the bike, don't let them intimidate you into paying $500 for fixing their mistake. I'm sure the Trek rep would want to know about this type of treatment.

canuck..if you pmail me I'll give you the name of the national sales manager at Trek in Waterloo, Wisconsin.

Sounds like the 58cm is pretty close. Competitive cyclist has you on a 59cm. Maybe a 60cm c-t is better, but why didn't you test ride one first.

Posts on this board are constantly giving this fit advice: "Test ride it first."

You have access to three shops and 2 of the 3 have a 60 (or would have ordered one in for you to test ride).

I don't think the LBS messed up, and I don't think they owe you a new bike.

If I were you I'd get a 130cm stem and see how it feels. That's not a big deal. I ride a 130 on a 62cm 5200. Go back to your LBS and tell them that you want to take a test ride with the 130 stem. If that's better, they might even swap it for free.

dtufts wrote:


If I were you I'd get a 130cm stem and see how it feels. That's not a big deal. I ride a 130 on a 62cm 5200. Go back to your LBS and tell them that you want to take a test ride with the 130 stem. If that's better, they might even swap it for free.

...and if they don't do it for free, insist that they sell them to you at cost. My guess is that that would be about 30 to 40% less than retail price.

proof positive that there's nothing wrong with a 130mm stem. I think this is a 130 . . .

[IMG]

is he putting his chain back on? what is he doing in that pic?

This is from Graham Watson. The caption says:

"Jan Ullrich reaches low to check his cleat on a fast section of today's stage..."

I'm not sure what he doing other than feeling the cleat. Now that's impressive flexability.

Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions.
A few comments:
1. While a 130 stem may work for Ullrich in that situation, I hardly have the flexibility (or body) to be in the position shown. The 130 is 20mm longer than the stock 110 on the 58 so it throws off the balance of the bike a bit. The 120 is stock on the 60. I am not sure what is stock on the 62.

2. The LBS's are all 11 to 4 hours apart from each, so I have done a fair bit of travelling to check them out after the fact. The original LBS used fairly high pressure tactics to sell me the 58. I actually left his shop to "think about it" and he called me on my cell all ticked off that he had spent 2-3 hours with me and I did not buy the bike. Obviously something was bugging me. Actually most of the 2 or 3 hours was spent just him yakking about this and that, not fitting me to the bike. It was odd that he considered 2 hours of "schmoozing", a service that I owed him a bike purchase for.
Again, he insisted that a 58 was the right size and that a 60 would be too big for road riding. ALL of the other shops (and a Trek company rep) all figure that a 60 is best for me.
Also, I was also originally looking for a triple and he talked me out of that. There have been several hills that I would of dearly loved that triple.

3. CompetitiveCyclist does say 59 for seat tube, but they also say 60 for top tube and their advice is that correct top tube length is **MORE IMPORTANT** than seat tube length, everything else being equal.

4. I did test ride it first. It is my first real road bike, and being a 5200 felt better than the other bikes I rode. I was relying on the expertise of the bike shop to FIT ME to the right bike.

5. To get the 58 to fit me right would require: longer seatpost, longer stem, additional stem rise and wider handlebars. The 60 does not require any of these changes or extras. I can not see how a 58 was the right recommendation.

Anyway, I hope my experience in some way helps others through their bike buying experience. I can understand the bike shops can have a real tough time because they can not stock every size of every bike all of the time. I am not saying that the shop that sold me the bike fit me wrong on purpose. It is just that if there is some doubt anout fit, they should order another bike in or send you to another shop that may have the size you need, even if it means losing a sale.

Here is an FYI on Trek bikes. If the bike is available at the warehouse, it can take as little as one day to get it to your LBS, so don't be afraid to ask for them to get it in your size (of course you will have to convince them that you are a serious buyer).

Here is an FYI on Trek bikes. If the bike is available at the warehouse, it can take as little as one day to get it to your LBS, so don't be afraid to ask for them to get it in your size (of course you will have to convince them that you are a serious buyer).

Yeah, but the problem is that some shops want to move their existing stock, especially expensive road bikes, regardless of whether it's the right size for you or not.

I don't understand why you say a 60cm 5200 will fit you if you need a 60cm top tube. I ride a 62cm 5200 and the top tube measures 59cm. Also when I bought my bike I knew I needed a longer seatpost. The shop traded the Bontrager out at their cost for a Thompson.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with fit. You spent a lot of dough, you do have a legitimate expectation that you will be taken care of. Alas, it's not always that way.

Sounds like the guy you were dealing with was a real jerk. Calling you "all ticked off" to pressure you to buy they bike? That's a pretty big Red Flag. I wouldn't expect good service from someone like that.

Georgesnatcher is right that you won't fit on a trek based on the CC recomendation.


you said:

I used the competitivecyclist.com fit calculator and it said a 59cm C-T seat tube (Trek uses C-T), 60cm top tube, 126 stem, non-setback seatpost.

**

Trek doesn't make an OCLV bike with such a long top tube relative to the seat post. The longest TT you can get is 59.2cm on the 62cm c-t seatpost.

I'm not aware of anything in the dimensions CC says you need.

I wouldn't worry to much about what stem length comes "stock." It's very common to change them for a better fit. Your not going to feel any adverse effects in handling or balance.

Yes, you are right, the CC recommendation may not be totally applicable here. The 60cm top post recommendation by CC also says "no set back" for the seat post. The stock Trek 5200 seat post is set back. I should e-mail CC and see how to adjust for setback.

More impostantly is real world facts.
The 60 fits out of the box.
The 58 needs longer seatpost, new stem, stem riser, and wider handlebars.

What would you be happier with if you were in my bike shoes?

You are in a tough spot. I don't think you have much recourse. If you feel like you must have the 60cm, I think you should just go to the other trek dealer and pay the exta $400. I wouldn't want any further dealings with the guy who fitted you wrong.

I picked up my 5200 62cm in march, and, like you, it was my first real road bike in a long time. I was very worried about fit. I had the chance to go to lots of local shops and get lots of opinions. I ultimately purchased from a shop that had a physical therapist do the fitting. I worried from the advice I was getting from other shops that the 62 might be too small, but it turned out to be spot on. The therapist did a good job.

I still think you might be fine with a longer stem and some spacers. I run a 130mm stem with 35mm of spacers.

Any competent shop would have never let you walk out the door without at least trying a 60cm or even a 62cm. I’m almost exactly your size height and inseam wise (6’-1.5” 34” inseam) and a 60cm c-t frame is the smallest that I would buy for myself. My current bike is a 60cm Habanero with a 58cm top tube. The top tube is a tad (1cm) short but the bike fits fine with a 135mm stem.

The way I see it, one of two things happened here. Either the original shop is clueless about fit or he was pushing the 58cm on you just to move it out the door. Either way I would not want to deal with this shop again if they give you anything short of a straight up trade for the 60cm.

I would definitely contact Trek if the original shop doesn’t make this right for you. I’m sure they would like to know that one of their dealers is incompetent and pushing bikes on people that don’t fit. Especially expensive road bikes like the one you bought.

An improper fitting bike is not much fun. If you don’t get satisfaction from the original shop, I would take the $400 swap deal from the second shop. They sound like a good shop that knows what they are doing and it probably wouldn’t hurt to develop a relationship with them.

Tom

Yes, I have pretty much decided to take ALL of my business to the other dealer.

The original dealer is sticking to his guns that swapping in all of those parts on a 58 is the right thing to do. He still maintains that he can even fit me to a 56. He also says he fit a 6'4" guy to a 58 a few months ago. He will not admit that the 60 is better for me, even if it does fit no-fuss, no-muss, right out of the box.

I wish I new about the other dealer in the first place. They are in another town that I rarely go to. I guess I will be paying more visits there now.

Thanks again everyone for their valuable insight.

I think I will start up Yoga so I can get into that Ullrich position!

He also says he fit a 6'4" guy to a 58 a few months ago.


Bull...I sell these things and they are smaller than comparable bikes like, say, Cannondale due to the way they size them. A guy this size on that size bike would look like one of those clown acts on the tiny bikes. I hope that poor guy has a good chiropractor.

If you have further dealings with them, ask the guy to give you the name of the 6'4" guy riding a 58.

Faztcanuck, did you ever re-approach the original LBS after you resolved it with the alternate LBS. I was curious,how much time passed till you decided to approach the LBS concerning a swap to the 60cm after the initial sell date. How's the 60cm 5200 now.

Just wanted to wrap this thread up. The orginal dealer made good on getting me a new 60cm 5200. Took a tiny bit of convincing from the Trek Sales rep but things seem to have worked out. The new bike is much more comfortable. I also got it in a triple (vs the orginal double) to aid with the crazy hills around here. Does not shift as fast on the front now, but worth the tradeoff. Less aches in the knees and able to spin faster up those hills and use more gears when need be.

The owner of the bike shop is really a good guy and we both learned a lot from this experience. I also ended up buy a Shimano flight deck computer from him.

Enjoying biking more than ever and looking forward to a couple tri's this summer!

Good deal, glad everything worked out for you - I had a similiar experience and Trek's represensitives are excellent in resolving these type of disputes. Enjoy :)

i'm 6'4.5" and when i went to the fanciest LBS in town and sat on a 63cm Trek 2100 the first thing the salesperson said was, 'jeez, maybe you should think about getting a custom gunnar or something' because i was hanging right off the front of that bike. i'm sure there's more to fit than just that, but if you're looking for more evidence that the pushy salesperson has his head up his butt then i figured i'd just throw that out there.

this is so ****.

i mean part of the reason everybody here is to some extent a fan of the LBS is that they believe in fit and they trust that getting fitted from a competent LBS is the best way to assure a good sized bike purchase. and here's a well-intentioned shopper who dropped what - like $2500?? the 5200 is so out of my range i don't even know what it costs really! and they won't sort him out!

my heart goes out to you.

maybe you could ebay the bike for close to what you got it for since it's so damned new. then get the right size from that place around the way where you get treated better.

good luck either way. you have my sympathy.

Good deal, glad everything worked out for you - I had a similiar experience and Trek's represensitives are excellent in resolving these type of disputes. Enjoy :)
I have found the same in Treks Reps. :)

I'm glad it worked out for you and you are happy with the purchase.

I kind of have similar problem. Last year I got 5200 in the size of 60cm. My size is 183cm (6 feet) and inseam is 86-88 (depending how hard you press there) which is about 34 inches. So I am smaller than you but with similar leg lenght. My problem was whether the bike is too big.... Given my leg lenght its perfect - i still have 1,5cm to the seatpost limit (which is fine). But given top tube lenght its little to long (I have shorter body). Currently I am riding with 10cm stem, but i streched a little bit so I will swap it to 11cm - but this is the longest I would have.

In my opinion given your little bigger dimensions 58 might be too small. To compensate you will have to use 14cm stem and little more seat setback (but within resonable leg angles). The only problem might be the seat and bar hight difference. Bikes with upward stems do not look that sexy - unless there is no other choice.