Regional forums

[garysol1]

If I am off base here just let me know but this really bugs me.
Our community of cyclists is small enough as it is. When I venture into a regional forum and see really good biking threads that have nothing to do with that particular region it bothers me. Member merider and myself have been having a little banter today concerning a thread about Garmin's that was in the So-cal forum. I suggested it would be nice if the info was in the Roadbike forum instead so everyone would see it and be able to take part in the discussion instead of hidden in a Regional thread. My thinking is simple.....Regional forums should be used for regional information and everything else should go into the appropriate forum.
What are your thoughts?

[East Hill]

If I am off base here just let me know but this really bugs me.
Our community of cyclists is small enough as it is. When I venture into a regional forum and see really good biking threads that have nothing to do with that particular region it bothers me. Member merider and myself have been having a little banter today concerning a thread about Garmin's that was in the So-cal forum. I suggested it would be nice if the info was in the Roadbike forum instead so everyone would see it and be able to take part in the discussion instead of hidden in a Regional thread. My thinking is simple.....Regional forums should be used for regional information and everything else should go into the appropriate forum.
What are your thoughts?

I was under the impression that regional forums were to talk about local events, rides, charities, get togethers.

They were also meant to be welcoming to local riders, and supportive of all who wish to ride, no matter what the bike or rider's ability.

I hate to see a good concept drift away from that.

East Hill

[chipcom]

I just use View New Posts to scan all the threads and join into any topic that catches my interest, no matter what forum it happens to be in. These are the intrawebs, we don' need no stinkin borders! :D

[garysol1]

I just use .......

Who asked you ...............







:D

[East Hill]

I just use View New Posts to scan all the threads and join into any topic that catches my interest, no matter what forum it happens to be in. These are the intrawebs, we don' need no stinkin borders! :D


Yes, but that is because you are well versed in the art of finding stuff.

I think Gary's concern was that there was a thread of interest in a regional forum, which he thought would be well worth sharing in Road Cycling, or General Cycling.

I know you aren't going to believe this Chip, but there are still people here who don't know that the regional forums exist, and who don't know how to use 'View New Posts', and who don't know what 'Spy' does :eek: ...

That was all...

East Hill

[garysol1]

I think Gary's concern was that there was a thread of interest in a regional forum, which he thought would be well worth sharing in Road Cycling, or General Cycling.

East Hill is 100% correct. It is not just one thread but many many threads. I think members get comfortable posting in there "local" forum and forget that they are part of a much larger family.

[chipcom]

Yes, but that is because you are well versed in the art of finding stuff.

I think Gary's concern was that there was a thread of interest in a regional forum, which he thought would be well worth sharing in Road Cycling, or General Cycling.

I know you aren't going to believe this Chip, but there are still people here who don't know that the regional forums exist, and who don't know how to use 'View New Posts', and who don't know what 'Spy' does :eek: ...

That was all...

East Hill

It would be nice to be able to cross post to multiple forums - some topics fit in multiple places, but ancient internet edimucate says cross posting is a no-no. Funny how the info superhighway is full of so many antiquated roadblocks. ;)

[chipcom]

East Hill is 100% correct. It is not just one thread but many many threads. I think members get comfortable posting in there "local" forum and forget that they are part of a much larger family.

I consider all of these different forums with the same disgust as I did all the fences out west. I'm an open range dinosaur!

[East Hill]

It would be nice to be able to cross post to multiple forums - some topics fit in multiple places, but ancient internet edimucate says cross posting is a no-no.

True, and Gary had politely mentioned that the particular thread was of general interest to all. He got bashed for having the nerve to mention that.

East Hill

[garysol1]

some topics fit in multiple places,

If the topic is in the least little bit regional related than I would say by all means keep it in your regional forum. But if it is something like "My Surly developed a crack" .....Don't you think that all the Surly owners on Bike Forums might want to know about it?

[chipcom]

I really don't think it would be hard to have a thread appear in multiple forums but still only be one thread, with the listings in the other forums merely being pointers or redirects. Then there would be no headaches for moderators to have to manage multiple threads of the same topic and it would make merging multiple threads more user friendly.

[garysol1]

I really don't think it would be hard to have a thread appear in multiple forums but still only be one thread

That is a stunning idea. The poster could choose multiple locations from a pull down menu when they initiate the post.

[chipcom]

Hmm, wonder if this forum software is open source. :D

[East Hill]

Hmm, wonder if this forum software is open source. :D

:roflmao:

I don't think so...

East Hill

[chipcom]

I didn't mean I would try to crack BF, but many of the PHP based forum packages like this are open source...meaning anyone could make modifications for their own use that might also be incorporated into the next release of the original. I would never recommend home-brew mods for a production system, because they tend to go bye-bye upon the next upgrade and void any support one might have from the vendor. But if BF is based on open source software, we might be able to add a mod to a future release. :)

[East Hill]

I think that vBulletin is owned by Jelsoft which is owned by Internet Brands?

East Hill

[chipcom]

Frack...no wonder this thing has had so many problems in the past.

[donnamb]

I think that vBulletin is owned by Jelsoft which is owned by Internet Brands?

East Hill
Correct.

BTW, we've initiated some discussion on this subject amongst the members of the moderation team. Don't stop posting here, though... :)

[solveg]

I say, just let people post where they're most comfortable....:)

although, having said that, I think it would be a cool idea to learn how people, both newbies and chipcom, use BF. I know it took me months to figure out that "Bike Forums" and "Bike Forums>Bike Forums" where two completely different areas. I think one should be called home. I didn't know anything about regionals, or for sale or this area until I was online for months.

I usually go to my user control panel. If I have more time, I go to the forums I like best. Then I go to forums I only dabble in. Then, if I'm still in the mood, I View New Posts.

[SweetLou]

vBulletine is written in PHP and is open source, though not free. You can modifiy it how ever you wish. The license agreement states:
The Software source code may be altered (at your risk)


vBulletin does have plug-ins, though I don't know if the option to post to multiple forums is one.

I suggested it would be nice if the info was in the Roadbike forum instead so everyone would see it and be able to take part in the discussion instead of hidden in a Regional thread. Why the Roadbike forum? Wouldn't the General Cycling or Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets forums be a better choice?

I just use View New Posts to scan all the threads and join into any topic that catches my interest, no matter what forum it happens to be in. These are the intrawebs, we don' need no stinkin borders!

I consider all of these different forums with the same disgust as I did all the fences out west. I'm an open range dinosaur!
I do agree that looking at all new posts will allow you to catch everything. On some forums, I do this, but not this one. I have no interests in certain subjects. As it is now, I have to scan through many threads to find ones that I have an interest. If I had to scan through all the forums...

I would not care for that. There are categories for a reason and people should post in the proper locations. With that said, it is sometimes hard to decide which forum to create a new thread. Especially when it is an equipment question. For example, I have a question about the durability of the XT's aluminum axle for loaded touring. Should I post this in the Touring forum or the Mechanics forum? Though the Mechanics forum doesn't sound like a place to ask about equipment but to ask about how to repair or install items. Another example is racks. I want a new rack for a bike that will be a touring and a commuting bike. In which forum should I post?

.Regional forums should be used for regional information and everything else should go into the appropriate forum.
What are your thoughts?

I agree. People should post in the proper forum. Moderators should move threads that are not in the proper forum.

[solveg]

Yeah, now that I've actually read the thread, the best thing probably would have been to just flag it for a mod to move.

[botto]

I consider all of these different forums with the same disgust as I did all the fences out west. I'm a dinosaur!

correct.

[East Hill]

Correct.

BTW, we've initiated some discussion on this subject amongst the members of the moderation team. Don't stop posting here, though... :)

I will continue to enjoy and post in Forum Suggestions & User Assistance...even if I can't really help :p .

I know people who can though, and I know how to direct traffic :D .

East Hill

[chipcom]

correct.

don't tempt me to park this brontosaurus butt on your chest, roadie boy!

[garysol1]

HERE (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=399311) is one of the best threads I have seen here on BF's in a long time. To bad most people will miss it.

[East Hill]

HERE (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=399311) is one of the best threads I have seen here on BF's in a long time. Too bad most people will miss it.

It is indeed a great thread. And unfortunately, most will never see it unless they go to the SoCal regional forum.

East Hill

[ronjon10]

HERE (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=399311) is one of the best threads I have seen here on BF's in a long time. To bad most people will miss it.

If it was on the Road Cycling forum, he'd be mocked for riding steel, which would ignite a steel is real thread, and that excellent thread would be relegated to page 3.

I'm "sort of" kidding.

[East Hill]

If it was on the Road Cycling forum, he'd be mocked for riding steel, which would ignite a steel is real thread, and that excellent thread would be relegated to page 3.

I'm "sort of" kidding.

Actually, this is an excellent example of a thread which would be good cross-posted. I found it of interest because all but one of my bikes are lugged steel. It would be a shame to bury it in the Framebuilders forum--because there aren't that many of us who read that forum--but it's of equal interest to those of us in C & V, too!

Steel is real!

East Hill

[thomson]

Gary, why don't you just go to the forums that interest you? Forums are a collection of people nearly as much as they are a collection of subjects. People post where they are comfortable.

[East Hill]

Gary, why don't you just go to the forums that interest you? Forums are a collection of people nearly as much as they are a collection of subjects. People post where they are comfortable.

Well, Gary's point is that some information is valuable to all. It's not the forum that's of interest necessarily, it's the subject. If you become comfortable only posting in one forum, you start to limit yourself, too. Stretch your limits, post somewhere other than just one forum.

East Hill

[garysol1]

Gary, why don't you just go to the forums that interest you? Forums are a collection of people nearly as much as they are a collection of subjects. People post where they are comfortable.

You hit the nail on the head.........Let's say you are a CV guy and that is where you spend your time, in Classic and Vintage forum. Meanwhile some other guy is posting in the Southeast forum about how he is restoring Raymond Poulidor original TDF bike that he found in a dumpster. You should have been in the correct place to read about this incredible CV find yet you would never know about it because it is in a forum that you would have never even thought about going into. Forums are set up by subject and need to be used that way so ALL of us members can share information.

[thomson]

You hit the nail on the head.........Let's say you are a CV guy and that is where you spend your time, in Classic and Vintage forum. Meanwhile some other guy is posting in the Southeast forum about how he is restoring Raymond Poulidor original TDF bike that he found in a dumpster. You should have been in the correct place to read about this incredible CV find yet you would never know about it because it is in a forum that you would have never even thought about going into. Forums are set up by subject and need to be used that way so ALL of us members can share information.

I think you will find in every forum that there are posts that can be put in other forums. If one starts cross posting, it will just be a mess that will end up with no benefit over one big catch-all forum.

Why is there an obligation by a poster to ensure everybody that can benefit from a post does? Maybe it should be up to the reader to learn to navigate/search/spy to find what interests them.

[East Hill]

You hit the nail on the head.........Let's say you are a CV guy and that is where you spend your time, in Classic and Vintage forum. Meanwhile some other guy is posting in the Southeast forum about how he is restoring Raymond Poulidor original TDF bike that he found in a dumpster. You should have been in the correct place to read about this incredible CV find yet you would never know about it because it is in a forum that you would have never even thought about going into. Forums are set up by subject and need to be used that way so ALL of us members can share information.

Regional forums are just that--they are meant for region specific events, such as races, local weather and traffic conditions, local meet and greets.

They were never meant to function as a mini-BikeForums on their own. It's a loss to our total cycling community here if people don't share valuable information with each other, simply because it's hidden in a place where we would not normally go.

East Hill

[East Hill]

Why is there an obligation by a poster to ensure everybody that can benefit from a post does?

There's no obligation, but isn't that why you and I come here, to BikeForums?

Because this is a community which is designed to share information? A community which is designed to benefit all members, not just those in a specific region--unless of course, the information is region specific?

East Hill

[thomson]

Regional forums are just that--they are meant for region specific events, such as races, local weather and traffic conditions, local meet and greets.

They were never meant to function as a mini-BikeForums on their own. It's a loss to our total cycling community here if people don't share valuable information with each other, simply because it's hidden in a place where we would not normally go.

East Hill

You are not quite correct there with respect to the SoCal forum. All the regional forums were floundering up until the SoCal got going. Some heavy handed moderators kept moving posts around to the point that anything non-bike related got moved to Foo and anything bike related got moved to the respective forum. We were trying to use it to get to know each other and would meet on rides and other activities. Then we started to respect each others opinions more than just an anonymous poster. Several of us talked to Joe about running this as a self contained forum. He agreed and told the moderators to back off and see how it goes. Well, it has been a phenomenal success in terms of participation. There are twice as many posts as the rest of the regional forums combined.

It really is a good formula, actually become friends and use the forums as a chat area.

Now under a new guard, it may have different rules. I am fairly certain participation will drop considerably if that were to occur.

[edit] I will give an example. race season has started and several of the SoCalers are racing. I don't race but I care about their exploits because they are friends. They wouldn't post their results in a race specific thread. I wouldn't read about some anonymous racer and his exploits in a race specific thread. I do like reading about SoCalers training and results though.

[East Hill]

You are not quite correct there with respect to the SoCal forum. All the regional forums were floundering up until the SoCal got going. Some heavy handed moderators kept moving posts around to the point that anything non-bike related got moved to Foo and anything bike related got moved to the respective forum. We were trying to use it to get to know each other and would meet on rides and other activities. Then we started to respect each others opinions more than just an anonymous poster. Several of us talked to Joe about running this as a self contained forum. He agreed and told the moderators to back off and see how it goes. Well, it has been a phenomenal success in terms of participation. There are twice as much posts as the rest of the regional forums combined.

It really is a good formula, actually become friends and use the forums as a chat area.

Now under a new guard, it may have different rules. I am fairly certain participation will drop considerably if that were to occur.

I understand that you may have the view that my opinion is not as valuable to you as someone you know personally. However, I fail to see what my opinion has to do with threads involving 'How to build a lugged steel frame', or 'Garmin 305 issues'.

East Hill

[thomson]

I understand that you may have the view that my opinion is not as valuable to you as someone you know personally. However, I fail to see what my opinion has to do with threads involving 'How to build a lugged steel frame', or 'Garmin 305 issues'.

East Hill

I was speaking in general terms and you are citing two specific examples.

At the risk of speaking for others, because I really don't want to do that.

The frame building thread would not have been started if it was in the Frame builders thread or even Road Cycling thread. The poster was interested in sharing that process with those of us that asked. I have ridden with him many times and am always peppering him with questions. Others have as well. Sure you can make a case that it would interest others but there are two points you are missing

There is no way to put it in all the forums where people have an interest. Maybe Bike Maintenence? Maybe Classic and Vintage? Road Cycling? Framebuilders? Whose responsibility is it to see that everyone that has an interest will find it? Gary found it.
If there was not a SoCal forum, the post never would have occurred.

p.s. I am done discussing this, I don't have anything else to add.

[BengeBoy]

There are lots of other software solutions to the problem being discussed in this thread.
Like, tagging.
Like, a search function that doesn't s***.

It's a software problem not a taxonomy problem.

[solveg]

You are not quite correct there with respect to the SoCal forum. All the regional forums were floundering up until the SoCal got going. Some heavy handed moderators kept moving posts around to the point that anything non-bike related got moved to Foo and anything bike related got moved to the respective forum. We were trying to use it to get to know each other and would meet on rides and other activities. Then we started to respect each others opinions more than just an anonymous poster. Several of us talked to Joe about running this as a self contained forum. He agreed and told the moderators to back off and see how it goes. Well, it has been a phenomenal success in terms of participation. There are twice as many posts as the rest of the regional forums combined.

It really is a good formula, actually become friends and use the forums as a chat area.

Now under a new guard, it may have different rules. I am fairly certain participation will drop considerably if that were to occur.



That's really interesting. I didn't know the history of the Socal forum. It's obvious you all are very close. And I understand exactly what you're saying, because 50+ and Clydesdales are 2 kind of "general purpose" forums where you get the same kind of community and discuss a wide range of topics.

Clydesdales and 50+ were set up to address the needs of people who view all* bike topics through a certain lens...both hold out a strong supportive hand to people just beginning, as well as those who may have challenges and need help. And there's a lot of NEW BIKE PORN in each, too!

Anyway, I understand the appeal. I see you in Foo, sometimes, so I know that you in return can probably appreciate why people who read the actual bike forums would like the whole BF.net to be as happy and tight as the SoCal forum. We'd like to get to know you guys, too! And some of us are pretty nice, also...:D

I am so* glad I ran across the thread on the frame being built. It's a great thread. But I'm one of the few people who read other regional forums. Mostly because I like my travel fantasies! But a lot of other people will not catch it.

Anyway, I'm just saying that Bike Forums would be a better place if we got to know you guys a little better, especially since you've got so many strong riders.

[East Hill]

Anyway, I'm just saying that Bike Forums would be a better place if we got to know you guys a little better, especially since you've got so many strong riders.


I do think you have some very strong points there, solveg. I know that it can be difficult for people to leave those 'comfort zones', such as 50+ and the Women's Cycling forum.

So in light of that, it's understandable that some of the SoCal forum folks don't have a desire to post any where else, and so we shall have to visit the SoCal forum just to make certain we don't miss anything of interest.

East Hill

[solveg]

I do think you have some very strong points there, solveg. I know that it can be difficult for people to leave those 'comfort zones', such as 50+ and the Women's Cycling forum.

So in light of that, it's understandable that some of the SoCal forum folks don't have a desire to post any where else, and so we shall have to visit the SoCal forum just to make certain we don't miss anything of interest.

East Hill

Well, like I said, most people wouldn't go to the SoCal forum if they didn't live in that region, so I'm hoping we can lure them out a bit more and make BF.net a better place!

It is difficult, sometimes, to figure out where to post something. Basically, you fall back to posting where you know people. Especially when you're asking for advice, because you know the people giving it. That's important! But it's usually most productive, most interesting, and most enjoyable to go to different forums for different topics. There are people here who are unbelievably knowledgeable. It's worth the effort, and it's worth going outside your comfort zone.

We all have places we like to hang out, and if I knew more people locally I'd love to have an informal chatty place to talk with them. I got a rude awakening over on the 50+ forum when I found out that my informal banter with some of the other members made other members feel "left out" and "not part of the club". I was mortified, because I like to think of myself as inclusive. But I forgot what it was like for new people who didn't know the inside jokes or the history behind the talk. It's all a fine line, between doing what we like and doing what's best for the everyone.

And if I were smarter, I'd know how to walk that line better.

[garysol1]

I think Chip already has the solution if it is possible. Post where you like with the ability to leave a "breadcrumb" in other forums.

[East Hill]

I think Chip already has the solution if it is possible. Post where you like with the ability to leave a "breadcrumb" in other forums.

That is a most elegant solution. Until then, though, it looks as if we shall have to venture further, and hope that no one objects to our presence, simply because we are not 'from the region'.

East Hill

[thomson]

That is a most elegant solution. Until then, though, it looks as if we shall have to venture further, and hope that no one objects to our presence, simply because we are not 'from the region'.

East Hill

Has that happened?

[East Hill]

Has that happened?

It has indeed, in the past. I have started posting again, as I believe that this attitude has ceased to exist there. I would hate for it to return.

When my parents emigrated to the United States, we settled first in Norwalk. So, I do feel an attachment for both SoCal and Northern California.

East Hill

[solveg]

I have no connection at all with SoCal, but I just like hanging out there sometimes!

[SweetLou]

Well hell, why even have categories and subforums? Just put everything together and have a nice big happy community. I like the Road Cycling forum, so I will start posting about my mountain bikes and recumbents in there because I am more comfortable! Or maybe talk about rides in Ohio in the SoCal forum, because it is such a nice forum.

No, that is just lazy and the thread should be in a proper forum. I would be upset if I was in the C&V forum and people were making threads about 2008 Trek 520 v. 2008 Surly LHT. I already have to skip over many threads that I don't care about. I don't want to have to go to some regional forum that has nothing to do with me to see if someone posted a thread that I have an interest in or that I can help.

[merider1]

If I am off base here just let me know but this really bugs me.
Our community of cyclists is small enough as it is. When I venture into a regional forum and see really good biking threads that have nothing to do with that particular region it bothers me. Member merider and myself have been having a little banter today concerning a thread about Garmin's that was in the So-cal forum. I suggested it would be nice if the info was in the Roadbike forum instead so everyone would see it and be able to take part in the discussion instead of hidden in a Regional thread. My thinking is simple.....Regional forums should be used for regional information and everything else should go into the appropriate forum.
What are your thoughts?

And here is my thinking:

1. We had this discussion last year in a public thread to the Mods, and the owner of Bike forums at the time, Joe, decided to leave the regional forums alone. He saw the value in the connections being made and the community as a whole.
2. We have, in fact, formed a community in which many of us ride together, know one another and trust one another's advice. Many of us are friends.
3. Sorry, but I don't care if the Road Forum guys are too lazy to come check So Cal out. In lieu of whining about it, why don't you foster your own regional forum, invite people on rides, make "human" contact (not only of the cyber kind) and then YOU will understand our experience and why someone like me is protective of our little corner and the folks who choose to come in there and participate.
4. So Cal is NOT locked or "secret" (I don't hear you complaining about the Women's Forum? Gee, what? you don't want all that info spread all over the Road Forum to benefit all you men?). You and any other member on here can do a search, find any thread you wish to benefit from and you are not barred from coming into So Cal. Nor are you not allowed to come join us on rides (which several folks from different states and regions have done). We are not exclusive to any member.

So, how about you quit your whining? As I pointed out in our "banter" the other day, very well I believe, there are over 26 threads in Road Cycling about Garmins. And personally, I don't care if the one thread in So Cal isn't put right in front of your nose or others over in the Road Cycling Forum. And, as I pointed out very well I believe, I don't WANT to come into Road Cycling and garner advice from a bunch of anonymous posters who are rude to one another and on and off the same subjects over and over again.

The regional forum members shouldn't be put in a position to think of the feelings and needs of every member on Bike Forums, Gary, and suggesting as such is just silly and some chip you've got on your shoulder.

My two cents. :)

[merider1]

East Hill is 100% correct. It is not just one thread but many many threads. I think members get comfortable posting in there "local" forum and forget that they are part of a much larger family.

No, I don't forget any such thing. This is not my family nor do I view it as such. I've made friends on here, but anonymous members on a website are just that - anonymous.

[solveg]

!!! I thought we were done and everyone was happy! :eek: