Road Cycling - LBS vs. Ebay vs. Internet

I wonder if any other cyclists have such thoughts. I find local bike shops to be great places with great service. My LBS treats me very well always, even though I buy stuff from other sources, and they know this. I buy lots of stuff at my LBS too. I sometimes feel guilty about buying stuff on the internet. Does anyone else share this dilemma? For instance I just bought a frame on Ebay and am asking my LBS to provide me with some other parts...

You're LBS I doubt expects you to purchase everything their, even for the plane fact they dont' carry everything. LIke you're frame do the carry that frame? If not it would not even be possible for you to purchase it their. I normaly check my LBS first if they don't carry what I want or it is ALOT higher I go elsewhere e-bay, internet other LBS.

What I bought was available at that store in a new 2004 model. What I got was a closeout 03 model that was much cheaper.

You can buy at other sources...but remember that your LBS probably sponsors rides, races, and is otherwise involved in the community and if they went away (see the LBS has overhead and provides jobs unlike the internet guys who do not employ people in your town or carry the overhead the LBS does, or pay taxes in your town). We spend a lot of money in the community promoting cycling.

When your internet order gets screwed up, you get to mail the stuff back to an entity where you have no relationship, and who knows how long to make it right. And YOU pay to ship it back. Which can usually make up the price difference.

I laughed when talking to a guy in the shop who had bought this really expensive Litespeed over the net that did not fit. Nor would it ever fit. But he was the expert. Several grand. Came in to buy a bike from us....expensive mistake. Paid for a full fitting, too. The he realized he didn't know everything.

At the shop, we have gotten very astute at not giving out all the info WE know so that we become free consultants to people who then take our info and go to the net and the shop ends up with nothing. Customers get service.

But it is funny how, after the pruchase is made, a lot of folks end up at the shop hoping for an answer on how to fix it.

People who know the drill tend to look for the professional help. And while we are a large operation (selling about 8,000 bikes a year) we do not carry everything all the time. But we can get anything. Quickly. And can give you the advice you need to make a smart purchase. Because we will have to see you again, and have a reputation to protect.

I've found that you have to be really careful on e-bay. A component search on a site like qbike http://qbike.com/ will give you a good idea of what the online retailers have. You may find that some items on e-bay are actually listed higher than you could get from the online retailers.

As for buying a complete bike sight unseen from someone/somewhere..... I dunno, I think I'd be losing sleep.

Part of the excitement of the new bike is staring at it in the LBS until the day you can walk in and buy it.

Sorry but I'm on a tight budget and I have to get the cheapest price :(
I do go to the LBS to see if they can match that price and if they can, I'll buy it from them but being the breadwinner in this family, food, clothes & bills must come first so price is my #1 priority.
When I win the lottery, I will buy EVERYTHING from my LBS :D

I simply buy from LBS always, unless they don't stock an item and can't get it then I'll go mailorder.

I ride with most of the LBS too so they are always willingto do me really good deals on anything, better than I can get mailorder/internet.

Take time to invest in the relationship with your LBS and they'll look after you and you'll make friends. Shucks you'll even have a refuge from the Missus when she hits her irrational phase of the month.
I get a 20% discount for my LBS now. Crazy is'nt it.....
They win, I win. The community wins

I try to maintain as good a relationship with the LBS as
possible, but as stated before they don't carry everything and they are aware of it. I like Etxe-Ondo
clothing, they don't carry it and I buy it online. I do however purchase almost everything I can get from them
with the exception of Vintage parts.
I'd feel kind of strange bringing in a frame (current model) and asking them to hang parts/build it, but thats just me.

Marty

You shouldn't feel bad about asking them to help you build up a frame you bought elsewhere. The markup on parts is probably higher than the markup on a whole bike.

DEMON

I simply buy from LBS always, unless they don't stock an item and can't get it then I'll go mailorder.

I ride with most of the LBS too so they are always willingto do me really good deals on anything, better than I can get mailorder/internet.

Take time to invest in the relationship with your LBS and they'll look after you and you'll make friends. Shucks you'll even have a refuge from the Missus when she hits her irrational phase of the month.
I get a 20% discount for my LBS now. Crazy is'nt it.....
They win, I win. The community wins

There you go...that's the way business should be done. But we get these guys standing there holding the internet catalogue, they want us to match, forget it. Normally they do not know enough of what they are doing and usually end up back at our place asking for help.

They get the special service price.
:p

Road warrior like you stated the LBS makes money one way or another on average. If I buy the frame from the LBS or mailorder..ebay etc.. unless I'm capable of doing all the work myself I"ll bring it in to do some of the work on it, so the LBS makes money probably more then they would have off the frame since service is 90% profit since it is just labor. And you will probably buy some things for that bike at the LBS tubes.. tires. cables whatever so the LBS makes money there to. Just because you do not buy that one thing the frame or whatever at the LBS you should not feel guilty.

I think you have to let the market take care of it's self. You shouldn't support a LBS just because they are there. They should be forced to be compete with prices that you can find elsewhere. That is the basis of how our economy works in the USA. IF everyone buys from ebay and online than LBS will go out of business.

Very quickly their will be a need for bike service and someone in town will open up a shop. They will only do bike repairs unless they can be competitive with online purchases. By comeptitive I mean at least close. I will likely buy from LBS if the price is close but they have to at least compete with internet.

I see NO reason to shop at LBS out of obligation. My obligation is to the Family Budget. If LBS fits into it than great if they don't then they are left out.

I love my LBS...and not just one shop...I spend my money at many LBSs and also on ebay and the net. Sometimes I'm in a shop and there is something they don't have and is no longer being made, guess what, they tell me to go check ebay. I got a Schwinn Paramount track bike on the net, and my LBS put it together for me...win/win.

About a year ago I was in San Mateo and went into a LBS (to be unnamed) and was looking for bearings for a campy headset...he found me a bearing set (all I needed was loose bearings) and he wanted 40 bucks for it! I wasn't going to put out 40 bucks for bearings! I went to another LBS is San Francisco and the bearings for a buck fifty. So not every LBS is the same, shop around.

You get more than a product with a LBS, which is demonstrated repeatedly by people that buy the wrong thing over and over again. Ranger, you make valid points, but online retailers don't provide the same level of service after the sale, a figure that I factor in to any purchase. There's plenty of stuff I'll buy online, but there's also a lot I get from my local shop (even if that local shop is 800 miles away). The really local shop hooks me up on everything I buy there, and they back it up and can answer any question I pose. Unlike any online retailer I've dealt with.

In my experience, online closeouts are impossible to beat however. And I do take advantage. But, I also worked for two years in a shop, have ridden for more than 10 years and am very comfortable researching on my own. So are a lot of customers. but, I also know when I need to ask for some help and I'm not afraid to do it. You generally get a better reaction from shops if you have questions if you've bought from them in the past. You don't have to buy everything there, but I agree that it's important to have some kind of relationship with them so they'll be there when you need them most.

The hard thing is often finding a good shop. But, in my experience, it's harder to find a good etailer (in terms of advice and help during and after the sale).

Workshop rates are not all profit!!

Every cent the shop brings in goes toward covering overheads;

electricity,
tools depreciation /replacement
cleaning fluids
staff salary
stock (which has to be paid for and is usually on a 30 or 60day credit)
Rent
water
business license
etc.

only once all those costs have been met can the shop declare profit. A lot of shops actually struggle to break even!!

I don't see anything wrong with taking a frame to your LBS to be built up with parts you are obtaining from them. My favourite LBS in Wrexham places no obligation on me to purchase big ticket items bu they provide top notch service and will get whatever I wnt or need because they del with all suppliers. Thats why I support them. The discount there is not a big as it can be elsewhere but whenever My headshok comes out of that shop it feels brand new for months afterward.

Also If I look at the impact of buying from LBS vs Internet/ mail order on my monthy budget it works out to only a few £!

Having the better relationship with my LBS is worth far more than a few penny's saved buying from some anonymous machine half way around the world

I too get discounts from my LBS. I am also aware of all the contributions they make to community activities and taxes and such.

The owner of my LBS has a philosophy that any way a person gets on a bike will ultimately be of benefit to him. Even discount store bikes appeal to him since he gets to adjust and repair them and eventually replace them when the rider gets serious about cycling.

The owner of my LBS understands people looking for deals. He accepts and advises on deals between two folks doing a private sale. He'll inspect and advise on a purchase.

My LBS tends to avoid judgements on people's decisions regarding purchases.

Oh yeah. I have also noticed that my usual discount somehow is overlooked when the LBS is working on something not purchased there. I don't mind that.

Just as you can't be expected to by goods and services from every car dealer in town, neither can the proprietor of your LBS expect that all of your business will be done with them.

Establish a good relationship with an LBS though. You'll be glad you did, no matter what problem you eventually have with whatever you have purchased from whereever.

I buy plenty of stuff from my LBS. In this case, they had fitted me for a frame and were planning to order it for me. Coincidentally the next day I found a leftover model of the same frame elsewhere. In this case the LBS had gone to some trouble to fit me and were going to order me a frame...

I tend to try and do business with my LBS at all times. I like doing business with people who know me, want my business, treat me well, and answer all my questions. Do I sometimes pay a bit more? Sure, but I understand they are in the business to make a profit and may not be able to always beat an internet price. As long as I feel good doing business with them and we trust each other I am more then happy to allow them to make a buck. I write mortgages for a living, I love it when a borrower calls me and wants to know what a Ditech fee is. That's a cool way of saying points even though they told you no points. Oh Well!!! Get the refund from the internet!!!

I buy plenty of stuff from my LBS. In this case, they had fitted me for a frame and were planning to order it for me. Coincidentally the next day I found a leftover model of the same frame elsewhere. In this case the LBS had gone to some trouble to fit me and were going to order me a frame...

in that case, they should be able to charge you for the fitting and cancel the order. if you have a good relationship with them, they should understand, but if they provided you with a service, you should be willing to pay for it. I had some knee pain years back and I made an appointment for a fitting. This was after years of riding...but after the fitting the pain was gone...best money I spent. :)

I'm going to re-sell the leftover model and buy the frame I originally wanted. I feel better having it from the LBS and this LBS has treated me very well. Perhaps they will forgive me. I may still buy things from Ebay etc, but in the case of a frame they fitted me for I should buy the frame from them. It will pay off over the long-run as they help me out with stuff.

By the way, the frame is a flo red 58cm 2003 Specialized S-works E5 with full carbon fork. I'd like to get $699 plus shipping for it.

Ever the contrarian, I will weigh in on this one from a semi-neoliberal point of view...

Firstly, while I realize that supporting the LBS is a noble thing to do and contributes to more than just a bicycle, it has been in my experience a far more expensive proposition. (More on this later)

Secondly, just because products are bought through another medium (i.e. Ebay) does not mean that a LBS has no place in the market. There are some things that are better bought through a LBS so perhaps in the future bike shops will have to gear their markets to items that are more suited for this purpose. Also, bike shops perform two vital roles:

1.Maintenance
2.Fitting

There is no getting around the fact that there will always be a demand for these two services. Ebay won't fix a bike, and Ebay can't fit a bike perfectly like a seasoned fitter at a bike shop can.

Lastly, as mentioned before, there need not be a hard line between a consumer's buying either Ebay OR LBS. If certain items are significantly cheaper through Ebay, a LBS has a choice: try and compete, or get out of that market and emphasize what they can make money on. Lets not kid ourselves, relationships are great, but the bottom line is that everyone needs to make a living.

I happened to utilize both on my last bike purchase, I told my LBS fitter where I was at with money and how much I was willing to spend for what I wanted. When he couldn't give me a good enough price, I bought the frame, components, and wheelset through the shop and then bought everything else through Ebay and saved about $200. I was happy because I got everything I wanted for the price I wanted to pay, the bike shop was happy because they still made money on the parts they sold, and the assembly and fitting. Granted, their profit was not as large as it would have been had they sold me the complete setup, but they only had to order a few parts,(less labour and time) and they knew what they ordered was sold, they didn't have to gamble on spending large overhead and not knowing whether it would sell.

Works for me!

I, too, have been a part of this lately. I started riding this year and have been poking around the Internet and talking with every BS in Ct it seems. But, I find the hardest part of the whole thing is finding a shop that treats me right regardless of whether I'm spending $1.00 or $1,000.

I've started to develop a decent relationship with the really LBS (less than 1 mile away from home) BUT, it sometimes feels like because I haven't bought a new $1,000 bike from them I get less attention and/or treated differently. Ex. I stopped in yesterday to ask a question about measuring for a new crankset and the owners wife was the only person there. She could not answer the question but her husband called while I was there. He asked her ( I could hear through the phone he was so loud) who I was, whether I was a regular customer, etc. etc. I understand they need my $ but when I ask for specific parts they seem ambivalent about getting them for me.

Maybe I need a new LBS...we'll see what shakes out in the future.

I've worked in retail and service industries before and always understood it to be the customer comes first. Maybe not anymore. I'd rather buy from a local outfit, but if I'm not given the service I'd give as a business owner (quid pro quo Clarise) I'm going to go someplace else.

I bought one of LA's books today...in town, locally, from a small independent bookstore. Same price as a big retailer but in MY community.

PJBAZ

The owner of the LBS sometimes gives me crap for shopping mail order. He once called me a pig for buying a frame from Nashbar. I told him to quit whining and be happy that I bought some of the parts from him.

I've dealt with other shops like that, namely a flyshop that used to discriminate widely based on past purchases. I eventually stopped going there because I almost felt I had to pay dues just to get treated well. I don't like feeling obligated to buy lots of stuff. I understand the philosophy, it's just business, but you should never let your customers see that and you should also treat every customer with respect. Some customers will eventually be brought to buy something more expensive, or they may have friends that get recommended or not recommended depending on the shop's treatment. Bottom line is, this treatment was not fair, and I would have no qualms about buying elsewhere.

My bike shop treats me very well, so I do feel some loyalty (never 100%) to them.

I wonder if any other cyclists have such thoughts. I find local bike shops to be great places with great service. My LBS treats me very well always, even though I buy stuff from other sources, and they know this. I buy lots of stuff at my LBS too. I sometimes feel guilty about buying stuff on the internet. Does anyone else share this dilemma? For instance I just bought a frame on Ebay and am asking my LBS to provide me with some other parts...

I wouldnt feel guilty if I were you. But you do indeed need to realize the total costs over a period of time and not just the initial costs. I purchase some things over the internet like clothes etc. Virtually all my parts and all of my bikes come from the LBS I use because of the service I receive. With all the questions answered in person, over the phone and in email my LBS has provided me with tons of information and help worth a lot of money. Additionally when I was in a crunch to get a bike repaired (that I bought there) after a fall and needed it badly the next morning the LBS stayed open late just for me and repaired it while I waited. Try that online!

I agree that the cost is an important factor, but that includes ALL the costs. I feel that I have actually saved a lot more money than if I got the bike online for a few hundred less.

Allan

Bike shops are owned by all sorts of folks and run in all sorts of different ways. That's part of the fun of a shop experience, but it's also a big problem. The shop I worked for had a great sales staff and one of the best wrenches I've ever seen. But the owners didn't understand riders. There was no support for cycling in the community from the shop until the last couple of years, and that has come about due to the aforementioned mechanic pushing management.

My point is this: The sad truth is that not all shop owners are interested in riders or riding. You can often tell the difference when you first set foot in a place, but it can also take time. Many of the negative experiences mentioned in this thread go to show that you never know what you're going to get from a shop. You have to shop around for a shop just like you do a bike, which makes a lot of riders avoid them. It's really too bad, but I certainly can't blame the customers.