"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Slipstream in the TdF!

I like.

Go to velonews or cyclingnews for the full article. Interesting that Vaughters mentioned his top riders for the Tour and Danielson wasn't one of them.

Why would the exclusion of Danielson be interesting?

yawn...... the top stage racing team in the world and the defending champ isnt going to be there .

yawn...... the top stage racing team in the world and the defending champ isnt going to be there .

Its their own fault

I think Danielson is falling off a lot of people's radar this year. That's not to say that he's done - by any means. I just think this is not his year.

Now, the hard part. Do they have their "A" squad put in full effort at the Giro and try to turn around a month later for the Tour, or do they send in the "B's"?

TDF was the holy grail for them so I think the Giro will see a roster change. Maybe Danielson with get a break as the as the GC guy for the Giro if he can heal up from his stomach issue or back broken or stubbed toe or what ever else he may have going on.

I think Danielson is falling off a lot of people's radar this year. That's not to say that he's done - by any means. I just think this is not his year.

He's done, at least on the international scene. He'll be riding for a top US domestic squad next season. The guys way to fragile to be making the kind of dough he's earning and not being able to stay healthy enough to race.

Good job Vaughters! I'm a big fan of Slipstream and hope they show well this July.

Its their own fault


why? cause they wont change their name?cause they win it all the time? trying to break up the uci ? hypocrits? which one is it? teams are still there that had riders doping last year. why astana? politics? colusion? (sp?) we just hate them? which one ?

yawn...... the top stage racing team in the world and the defending champ isnt going to be there .

even bigger yawn, having to watch Evans out TT everyone and then sit in on every climb.

Good job Vaughters! I'm a big fan of Slipstream and hope they show well this July.

+1

why? cause they wont change their name?cause they win it all the time? trying to break up the uci ? hypocrits? which one is it? teams are still there that had riders doping last year. why astana? politics? colusion? (sp?) we just hate them? which one ?


Its their own fault because they took the same pig (Astana) and put lipstick on it (Bruyneel)..... Levi and the gang knew what they were getting into from day one.

What an interesting and nice dilemma for Vaughters, re: who to send to which Grand Tour.

I recently downloaded the full version of Pro Cycling Manager 2007, and although that's no replacement for actually running a team, it gave me some idea of how complicated the ProTour can make a team manager's life. For example you need to field three different teams in three different stage races in February (that's as far as I've gotten). Actually you need to field two at a time, but for four total stage races, and I have riders who "want" to do a third stage race.

I chose Discovery to "manage" since I'm most familiar with their domestiques (unlike say Predictor-Lotto - I have no idea who anyone is past Cioni and a couple others) and they don't win everything by default (which seems to be the case with CSC or QuickStep in this game). You'd think with the wealth of riders that it'd be easy to field some teams. It's not though, not without some scrap paper (or better yet, a spreadsheet) with which to plan out which rider races where.

Now if I was managing Slipstream and suddenly I had to do TWO Grand Tours... well, that would be a great problem to have.

I don't know how Vaughters is looking at his guys but I don't know if there's an actual "overall contender" for either race on that team. Even fully supported I don't know if there's a rider on that team who could pull off a podium in either GT.

If this is true then he needs to get results in some other way. TTs make a lot of sense - Dave Z, Millar, and one or two others.. but against a Cancellara? Maybe they should target the Giro for some TT wins or where ever Cancellara isn't. Aggressive riding could net them a spot in a break which then turns into a 1 in 6 (or whatever) chance of a stage win. I think that would be their best bet.

Since I've always been a fan of Danny Pate I hope that he gets to infiltrate a break in a tougher stage, one suited to his "I can ride hard but can't sprint" type of style. The Giro seems more suited to that but the Tour might have a stage or three too. Van de Velde, if he isn't saved for GC, would be ideal for such a role too.

I don't know enough about their riders to talk about white jersey, climbers, etc. I don't think a sprint win or jersey is out there (McEwen, Petacchi, Thor, Freire, etc).

After all this, watch them win a few stages in field sprints, lose all the TTs, get 3rd in the Giro and 2nd in the Tour, and claim the best young rider jersey in one of them. Wouldn't that be the schnizzle.

cdr

yawn...... the top stage racing team in the world and the defending champ isnt going to be there .

who's that?

even bigger yawn, having to watch Evans out TT everyone and then sit in on every climb.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/botto/evans.jpg

I think Danielson is falling off a lot of people's radar this year. That's not to say that he's done - by any means. I just think this is not his year.

deja vu.... all over again...

Cadel Evans and his buttchin...awesome.

Why would the exclusion of Danielson be interesting?

TD would abandon after Stage 4 with a hang nail anyway.

TDF was the holy grail for them so I think the Giro will see a roster change. Maybe Danielson with get a break as the as the GC guy for the Giro if he can heal up from his stomach issue or back broken or stubbed toe or what ever else he may have going on.

That job will probably fall to Hejsdahl (hesdahl, hjedsdall..whatever), since he put in an 8th place overall at T-A. I don't think we'll see much of Danielson till the Vuelta.

I, for one, welcome our new argyle overlords.

Why would the exclusion of Danielson be interesting?

He happens to be one of the few Slipstream riders that has won a non TT stage of a grand tour, and also placed top 10 in the GC. He is also one of thier best climbers. Yes, he hasn't been consistent through a 3 week grand tour, but he has been consistent enough to place top 10 twice. At the very least he would be a great mtn stage domestique for the team leader.

Its their own fault because they took the same pig (Astana) and put lipstick on it (Bruyneel)..... Levi and the gang knew what they were getting into from day one.

Really, you could switch the pig and the lipstick and it would still be accurate. I have no sympathy.

Its not even like Contador dominated it, his win was about as convincing as Pirero's.

On topic, I cant wait to see slipstream. I hope they do well.

He happens to be one of the few Slipstream riders that has won a non TT stage of a grand tour, and also placed top 10 in the GC. He is also one of thier best climbers. Yes, he hasn't been consistent through a 3 week grand tour, but he has been consistent enough to place top 10 twice. At the very least he would be a great mtn stage domestique for the team leader.

he's one of several: zabriskie (VdE) and bäckstedt (TdF).

he's one of several: zabriskie (VdE) and bäckstedt (TdF).

one of the few ... one of several. Same thing. Millar is the other rider with a TdF stage win, if I am not mistaken.

he's one of several: zabriskie (VdE) and bäckstedt (TdF).

Zabriskie for TdF as well if you want to count the prologue.

I think Danielson is falling off a lot of people's radar this year. That's not to say that he's done - by any means. I just think this is not his year.
This is not his decade.

Honestly, if I were Vaughters I would have my guys just get in breaks; work a little but mostly sit on since they're likely not strong enough to be animators; be happy with the publicity that comes from being up there every day. Sooner or later a guy will get lucky and stay in a break to the end. Beyond that Z and Millar can pull out a top placing in a TT. That should be good enough to get an invite back and do more damage then. I don't see the point in fighting to defend a 15th place on G.C.

Zabriskie for TdF as well if you want to count the prologue.

Zabriskie is the only American to have won a stage in each of the three Grand Tours.

one of the few ... one of several. Same thing.

why do you hate precision?


few (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/few)

(fyōō) Pronunciation Key
adj. few·er, few·est

1. Amounting to or consisting of a small number: one of my few bad habits.
2. Being more than one but indefinitely small in number: bowled a few strings.


n. (used with a pl. verb)

1. An indefinitely small number of persons or things: A few of the books have torn jackets.
2. An exclusive or limited number: the discerning few; the fortunate few.





several (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/several)
sev·er·al /ˈsɛvərəl, ˈsɛvrəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sev-er-uhl, sev-ruhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. being more than two but fewer than many in number or kind: several ways of doing it.
2. respective; individual: They went their several ways.
3. separate; different: several occasions.
4. single; particular.
5. Law. binding two or more persons who may be sued separately on a common obligation.
–noun
6. several persons or things; a few; some.




Millar is the other rider with a TdF stage win, if I am not mistaken.

you are not mistaken.

Thank you, sir, for the correction.

Good News! The fight for 10th place in the team competition just got interesting. Skill-Shimano would make for a better race.

Good News! The fight for 10th place in the team competition just got interesting. Skill-Shimano would make for a better race.


From CyclingNews.com

Vaughters plans to wait until the Tour draws closer to announce the long list of riders for the Tour, but indicated that David Millar and David Zabriskie are obvious choices, as are Magnus Backstedt and Julian Dean. But one rider who he wants to see on the team is American Danny Pate. "I'm determined to put Pate on the whether he wants to go or not - if I have to drag him kicking and screaming."

Love the Pate reference. There aren't too many guys in the world that don't want to try the Tour at least once. Guess Pate's in the minority.

The TdF seems like a losing proposition not really worth the risk. With the current ASO vs. UCI mess there are way too many ways to lose there off the bike and very few ways to come out of it ahead in general with the TdF being the worst of the cases. Outside of the sentimental reasons, why would anyone risk their entire career and reputation by riding this race only to be caught in some ASO/UCI fight? The potential reward isn't worth the risk.

From CyclingNews.com

Vaughters plans to wait until the Tour draws closer to announce the long list of riders for the Tour, but indicated that David Millar and David Zabriskie are obvious choices, as are Magnus Backstedt and Julian Dean. But one rider who he wants to see on the team is American Danny Pate. "I'm determined to put Pate on the whether he wants to go or not - if I have to drag him kicking and screaming."

Love the Pate reference. There aren't too many guys in the world that don't want to try the Tour at least once. Guess Pate's in the minority.

Pate is cool.

http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2007/03/being-pro-danny-pate-style.

cdr

The TdF seems like a losing proposition not really worth the risk.

I think the opposite is true. The TdF is so big that it simply outshines the governing body. Kind of like Indy 500 - when the US open wheel racing body split into two, one got the Indy 500. Who the heck knows where the other races are? I know of a couple but that's it. The Indy 500 is the one you want.

In bike racing the biggest races are probably Paris-Roubaix, Liege, Flanders, Tour. Worlds is important but such a crapshoot so late in the season it's a bit odd. Without PR, Liege, Flanders, TdF, the pro circuit would be severely lacking.

When you compare the Tour to the Giro it's just a different world. Giro looks like an under budget race that I'd put on compared to the Tour. Narrow roads, finish lines on blind curves, chaotic finish routes, etc. The Tour is the pinnacle of the sport. Kudos to the organizers for maintaining this position.

I know the 24 hour race at Lemans tried to break away from their league. But once the drivers were threatened (for real) with some kind of suspension, the race behaved itself. But Lemans, as big as it is in the prototype car racing, is not as big as the Tour is to bike racing. And the Lemans league only has a few races compared to the hundreds of pro bike races.

The ProTour has been criticized from day one. But since when is simply having money a good way of guaranteeing a strong team? A smaller, hungrier team may not be able to showcase its talents simply because, that year, the team doesn't have enough money to be assured a Tour start (which ProTour tried to do). Yes, the wildcards are good, but if you guarantee all the ProTour teams first, you don't have a lot of wildcards left.

I think one thing they should do is to allow bigger fields in races. Add maybe 2 more teams, bring the numbers back up to 200-210. It makes racing harder to control, makes racing collectively a bit easier (sitting in on the flats is easier), and probably won't make it any more crashy than it already is (let's face it, could you tell the difference between 190 and 200 riders? I couldn't). It just costs more to promote.

cdr

I think the opposite is true. The TdF is so big that it simply outshines the governing body. Kind of like Indy 500 - when the US open wheel racing body split into two, one got the Indy 500. Who the heck knows where the other races are? I know of a couple but that's it. The Indy 500 is the one you want.



yeah but indy was the biggest race period.nascar or open wheel . nothing could compare . then the cart ,irl split . the best teams went to cart . what happened to indy? it lost its luster. people moved on to nascar. now its daytona is the coolest best race of the year.nascar or open wheel. indy isnt what it once was hasnt been since the split. and what happened when the best teams came back to indy ? they kicked arse again. so was the split really helpful to indy in the long run? not in my eyes.

Oh yeah. Go, Maggie, Go!

As merely a rider the TdF is a dream, as a professional a rider must judge the risks versus the benefits. Judging what a rider should do based on the organization or excitement (positives) is simplistic and betrays that you cannot differentiate your riding from their.

Slipstream seems to have the right attitude going into the season this year (show the sponsors off and do their best every time they line up) but I very much doubt this year's tour will be any different from the past couple (embroiled in controversy) and any victory will be hollow.

The professional riders have long been abused and used by a sport filled with petty disagreements (ProTour vs. ASO) and so many of the solutions focus only on fixing the symptoms of the deep problems of the sport by punishing the riders. Until the real problems are fixed the sport is going to have problems.

Are there any odds on whether Tommy Danielson 1) makes the Tour team and 2) finishes the Tour without an injury?

As merely a rider the TdF is a dream, as a professional a rider must judge the risks versus the benefits. Judging what a rider should do based on the organization or excitement (positives) is simplistic and betrays that you cannot differentiate your riding from their.

Slipstream seems to have the right attitude going into the season this year (show the sponsors off and do their best every time they line up) but I very much doubt this year's tour will be any different from the past couple (embroiled in controversy) and any victory will be hollow.

The professional riders have long been abused and used by a sport filled with petty disagreements (ProTour vs. ASO) and so many of the solutions focus only on fixing the symptoms of the deep problems of the sport by punishing the riders. Until the real problems are fixed the sport is going to have problems.

Your arguments seem to imply that ALL the riders are going to be trying to get away with doping, and need to worry about getting caught. No?

I'm not seeing what a clean rider would have to worry about in racing the TDF.

>>I'm not seeing what a clean rider would have to worry about in racing the TDF.<<

Then you having been paying attention to the slipshod lab procedures and incessant politics that surround the Tour de France and Euro pro cycling in general. Everybody has something to worry about when a mere allegation supported by circumstantial evidence is enough to get you suspended from the sport.

ok.

But I'm of the opinion that the guys who have tested positive at the TDF in the past couple of years really were doping. Sure, ASO has horrendous testing protocol, but I don't think they have issued a false positive yet either.

There were certainly innocent riders caught up in Puerto, but that was the work of the Spanish government and it just happened to break around the TDF. False allegations could happen at any race, so the riders should be worried all the time, not just in July.

But I'm of the opinion that the guys who have tested positive at the TDF in the past couple of years really were doping.

Because only the most rigorous, scientifically proven tests are used?
http://www.endo-society.org/news/press/2008/Doping-Test-in-Sports-Confounded-by-Common-Genetic-Trait.cfm

Or because you already believe they all dope so any positive result must be true?

I'm not seeing what a clean rider would have to worry about in racing the TDF.

How about not getting dropped by riders who are doping?