Mountain Biking - Honda Thumper

I'm a total newbie and have just started looking into MTB.
I saw this bike
http://www.earthspirits.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=abs&Product_Code=mtb03_hondathump

At $200 it seems very cheap for a full suspension bike. I know that it weights 38lbs and I know this is pretty heavy for a bike. Are there any other reasons why it is so cheap? I weight 220lbs but I have very strong legs from running and hiking. I know I need to get something more heavy duty then the average mtb but 38lbs sounds extreme. Any opinions welcome

looks like a dept store bike...although i could be wrong. either way, it's heavy, and it's got low end parts. i don't want to beat a dead horse but i'm willing to bet that after you ride that honda and then ride a real bike store bike, you'll prefer the bike store one.

hose bikes are finne if your starting out, it will teach you how tyo maintain your bike, as that bike will not last long, cis of its low end parts, your better off buying a front sus bike from a lbs and going from ther. Those bikes are rip offs really...

Frame: 18” Y-type Hi-Ten Steel Suspension Frame
Rear Shock: Coil over, 750lbs spring
Fork: Hi-Ten Steel Suspension Fork
Wheels: 36 hole alloy rims
Tires: 26” x 1.95”” knobby MTB
Saddle: Padded MTB
Seatpost: Alloy, Quick Release
Handlebars: Alloy, flat bar with Bar Ends
Stem: Rise, MTB style
Headset: Steel Threadless
Shifters: Microshift® thumbshifters, 21 speed
Front Derailleur: Shimano TY-22
Rear Derailleur: Shimano TZ-30, 7 speed
Crankset: Alloy/Steel 3 piece
Chain & Cogset: 7-speed, 14-28t
Brakeset: Alloy DISC front, Linear Pull Rear
Pedals: MTB style pp plastic
Extras: Rear Mounted Kickstand, CPSC reflector kit, Bar Ends

hmm... i'd go checkout your local bike shop, look for used bikes that are cheap... because the honda is a cheap bike (no offense)... actually i saw a bike called lynx or something like that at kmart, if you want a cheap fs bike with disc brakes for like $120

~mikeym

I'd look for something better.

yeah dude, unfourtiatley... you're probably getting ripped off... thats a kmart brand of bike (i just found the honda bikes at kmart) my advice would be look in the classifieds online, and in your local newspaper... ~ mikeym

a used bike is always better than a shiny department store bike. plus a hardtail helps you A LOT in developing skills. search the forums for threads on department store bikes since it has been discussed many times and you can probably find some valuable information. just because it is cheap and full suspension does not mean it is high quality. although like others said, if you are strapped for cash it will definitely teach you how to maintain a bike until you upgrade.

eBay baby!

I found my Specialized Hard Rock Uno in a local Pawn Shop for $250.00. I was riding a WalMart MGX before I got it. No comparison. The same shop even has a JAMIS Dakar hanging in the window now for around $200.00 asking price. (you never pay asking price in a pawn shop) So look around, you can find a quality ride used in many places. Good luck!

I'm a total newbie and have just started looking into MTB.
I saw this bike
http://www.earthspirits.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=abs&Product_Code=mtb03_hondathump

At $200 it seems very cheap for a full suspension bike. I know that it weights 38lbs and I know this is pretty heavy for a bike. Are there any other reasons why it is so cheap? I weight 220lbs but I have very strong legs from running and hiking. I know I need to get something more heavy duty then the average mtb but 38lbs sounds extreme. Any opinions welcome

Welcome to forums!

You say you are new to mountain biking, so why don’t you start with a hard tail first (No rear suspension). Is there a reason you want full suspension bike (FS)? Or is it the ”cool look” factor? Visit your local bike shop (lbs) and see what they have, used or new. I can almost guarantee you a better bake that will fit YOU.

Welcome to forums!

You say you are new to mountain biking, so why don’t you start with a hard tail first (No rear suspension). Is there a reason you want full suspension bike (FS)? Or is it the ”cool look” factor? Visit your local bike shop (lbs) and see what they have, used or new. I can almost guarantee you a better bake that will fit YOU.


Actually it’s not the full suspension that I care about. It’s the fact that Honda has a bike that got my interest. I’ve worked with a lot of their engineers and I know that Honda is capable of making some really great things. But I was skeptical that they could make a great bike for $200 and was posting here to see what the deal was.

well assuming honda actually engineered the frame (and not just rebadged a generic one), for $200 you know you are still going to be getting low end parts that won't last on the trails. if you actually knew the details about the frame-making process employed by honda, and they turn out to be decent, then the frame might be worthy of upgrades. otherwise it'll just be a bike that might make you hate bicycling.

edit: OT but i was checking out that site and saw monroe shocks spec'ed on some mtn bikes. i know monroe makes truck struts (on the affordable end) but does anyone have experience with their suspension forks?

hey... i believe that the honda bikes are made by huffy... ~ mikeym

hey... i believe that the honda bikes are made by huffy... ~ mikeym

You may be right. They sure do look a lot alike.

Actually it’s not the full suspension that I care about. It’s the fact that Honda has a bike that got my interest. I’ve worked with a lot of their engineers and I know that Honda is capable of making some really great things. But I was skeptical that they could make a great bike for $200 and was posting here to see what the deal was.
You are talking about 2 totally different things, engines and bikes. The bike is just another way to get their name "Honda" out to the public. Would you buy a car from a bike company? I can see the advertisement already, “The first 4X4 from Specialized, the ultimate car of today!” If you want quality get a bike from a bike company not a car company.

. Would you buy a car from a bike company?
How about a motorcycle from a bicycle company - oh wait Crack-n-fail tried that. :rolleyes: Honda bicycles are {censored** (same goes for Jeep et al) pure and simple run away from the junk heap and don't look back

Actually it’s not the full suspension that I care about. It’s the fact that Honda has a bike that got my interest. I’ve worked with a lot of their engineers and I know that Honda is capable of making some really great things. But I was skeptical that they could make a great bike for $200 and was posting here to see what the deal was.

By the same token, Porsche made their own bike, and Mercedes made a belt drive bike. I saw both close up, and frankly, having ridden both, I was not impressed with either (a) the weight, (b) the price, (c) the specs. I'd rather invest in a truck-load of horse manure. Much better value for money.

Just because the manufacturers make great cars, does not translate into great bikes. Cannondale got poked in the eye trying to make motocross bikes on the back of their bike division - and look what happened. If Trek popped up with a sports car would you buy it becuase they make great bikes? Probably not.

I Honda were really serious about making a bike, they'd put a lot more into it than just taking a cheap pile of trash and sticking their decal on it. Others'll give you a more balanced view, less biased. I've seen the car manufacturer endorsed bikes, and others'll tell you about the ones made by Jeep. In general, stay away from them. You can buy better for your buck at your lbs.

Actually Honda did engineer a DH bicycle based on their dirtbike technology. As far as I know, that is the only bicycle they actually "make." Huffy or whoever does the Xmart bikes is just using Honda's name under possible licenses.

And the bike was strictly prototype. They have no interest in doing production level dh bikes :)

i saw that honda bike in one of last months magazines (mbuk?) pretty cool i tell you. High end parts and the whole package wrapped up in one nice bundle. :p

About 2 months ago I was in Wal-Mart and saw a bike magazine on the racks that had this really elaborate bike made by Honda. It's full suspension, disc brakes, and I believe that it was actually fully automatic transmission (yes you pedal it to make it go still).

http://world.honda.com/news/2003/image/2030203_1.jpg

They may be marketing some less elaborate bikes to get thier name out there. What better place than the department stores at a lower price.

http://us.st1.yimg.com/store5.yimg.com/I/brandsmall_1765_48130789

That one's made by Jeep. Looks pretty nice to me. Then again with a $899.00 price tag it better be.

http://us.st1.yimg.com/store5.yimg.com/I/brandsmall_1765_48130789

That one's made by Jeep. Looks pretty nice to me. Then again with a $899.00 price tag it better be.
The suspension design looks like Kona's

About 2 months ago I was in Wal-Mart and saw a bike magazine on the racks that had this really elaborate bike made by Honda. It's full suspension, disc brakes, and I believe that it was actually fully automatic transmission (yes you pedal it to make it go still).

http://world.honda.com/news/2003/image/2030203_1.jpg

They may be marketing some less elaborate bikes to get thier name out there. What better place than the department stores at a lower price.
What in the world can you use this thing for?

Honda Develops Mountain Bike for Downhill Competitions
--- Will Participate in 2003 Japan Series

Tokyo, February 3, 2003 --- Honda Motor Co., Ltd., as part of its ongoing commitment to spread the dream of mobility, has developed a mountain bike for downhill competitions called the RN01*1 ("RN zero one"), which it will enter in the 2003 Japan Series (all races) and the World Cup (spot participation) in order to develop further technical know-how and enhance the bike's performance.

Machine development and team management will be overseen by Honda R&D Co., Ltd.'s Asaka R&D Center - Honda's motorcycle research and development division - as part of its R&D activities. The team assembled to compete in the 2003 season will be called Team G Cross Honda*2, and the rider will be Naoki Idegawa, who was ranked 68th in the world and 5th in the Japan Series for 2002.

Distinguishing characteristics of the RN01 include a frame that has been subjected to rigorous strength analysis and reinforced in those sections where the stresses are greatest, plus the use of a suspension made by Kayaba Industry Co., Ltd. The brakes, developed in partnership with Akebono Brake Industry Co., Ltd., are lightweight and deliver superior braking and control. A transmission mechanism employing such newly developed technology as frame mounting for reduced unsprung weight is being tried out for the first time on this bike.

Downhill racing is a bicycle race that typically takes place on snowless ski slopes or other downhill courses. Racers compete against the clock, reaching speeds of up to 70~80km/h. Each year there are seven World Cup races, one World Championship race, six Japan Series races, one Japan National Championship race, and one Asian Championship race. Due to the extreme ruggedness of the courses, the machines must be highly rigid and durable. Honda is adapting the technology it has accumulated in motocross racing to sharpen its competitive edge.

How the names were chosen: *1 The "RN01" machine name: The name combines R and N, which stand for Racing and Natural force ("nature's power"), followed by "01" to indicate that this is the first model.
*2 The "G Cross" team name: The name is a combination of G for Gravity and the 'Cross' from motocross.




RN01





Rider Profile Naoki Idegawa
Birth date: April 22, 1980
Birthplace: Hiroshima Prefecture
Height: 172cm
Weight: 71kg
Blood type: A

Career highlights:
1996 Japan National Championship 1st place
1997 Asian Championships 3rd place
2000 Japan National Championship 3rd place
2001 Joined an overseas team and began competing on the World Cup circuit.
2002 World ranking: 68th, Japan Series ranking: 5th

What in the world can you use this thing for?

Chuvak has attached this image:




Looks like a carrying handle. It's in the center of the bike. Maybe you can warp something around it to tie yourself to the bike, keep you from falling off LOL.

Raiyn and Bokkie, so is what you are telling me that all of the brand name parts that both of those bikes are junk becuase they put a auto makers name on them. That's an interesting idea.

Here's the list of the Jeep components. Anyone can weld a frame together, and if you use the right stuff what makes it any different than a "Bike Shop" bike.









Description


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SIZE: 18"
FRAME: Jeep Alloy 18" 4-Bar Link Suspension
REAR SHOCK: Air-Oil
FRONT FORK: Monroe Adjustable, 100mm Travel
REAR BRAKE: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc
FRONT BRAKE: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc
BRAKE LEVERS: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc
CRANKSET: Truvativ 22/32/42T 175mm
REAR DERAILLEURS: Shimano LX
FRONT DERAILLEURS: Shimano LX
COGSET: Shimano 9-Speed, 11-32T
SHIFTERS: Shimano LX RapidFire Plus
RIMS: Alloy Black, 26"x1.5" 36H
REAR HUB: Shimano
FRONT HUB: Shimano
TIRES: 26"x2.1" Kharisma
PEDALS: Alloy MTB
SADDLE: Jeep MTB-Type
SEATPOST: Amoeba Alloy, 350mm x 27.2mm
HANDLEBAR: Amoeba Alloy 610mm Wide, 30mm Rise
STEM: Amoeba Alloy, 100mm Ext.
GRIPS: Kraton 120mm
EXTRAS:Kickstand, Reflectors Included
COLOR: Radiant Pearl
SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED: Front Wheel, Seat, Handlebars, Pedals
JEEP® AND THE JEEP® GRILLE ARE REGISTERED TRADEMARKS OF DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION AND ARE USED UNDER LICENSE. ©DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION COPYRIGHT © 2003 CYCLE SOURCE GROUP LLC ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://us.st1.yimg.com/store5.yimg.com/I/brandsmall_1765_52106827

Description


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Rubicon Sport is a no compromise all out free ride rig! We start with a downhill-style single swingarm frame made from light weight aluminum alloy, add an upside-down ally/carbon fork with 180mm of travel, then hang a component mix that includes the best names in the business. We finished up with a set of disc'specific alloy wheels using super tough deep section rims and fat (or is that "phat?") 2.35" knobbies.

SIZE: 18"
FRAME: Christini 18" AWD Suspension Alloy Frame
REAR SHOCK: DNM AO33PC Air/Oil
FRONT FORK: Christini AWD by White Brothers
REAR BRAKE: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc
FRONT BRAKE: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc
BRAKE LEVERS: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc
CRANKSET: Truvativ 22/32/44T 175mm
REAR DERAILLEURS: Shimano XT
FRONT DERAILLEURS: Shimano Deore
COGSET: Shimano 9-Speed, 11-32T
SHIFTERS: Shimano Deore
RIMS: Alloy, 26"x1.75" 36H
REAR HUB: Christini Custom AWD QR
FRONT HUB: Christini Custom AWD QR
TIRES: 26"x2.1" Kharisma MTB
PEDALS: Alloy Body, CrMo Axle
SADDLE: Jeep MTB-Type
SEATPOST: Amoeba Alloy, 350mm x 27.2mm
HANDLEBAR: 670mm Wide, 27.2mm Rise
STEM: Amoeba Alloy,10deg, 90mm Ext.
GRIPS: Kraton 125mm
EXTRAS:Kickstand, Reflectors Included
COLOR: Shining Blue
SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED: Front Wheel, Seat, Handlebars, Pedals
JEEP® AND THE JEEP® GRILLE ARE REGISTERED TRADEMARKS OF DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION AND ARE USED UNDER LICENSE. ©DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION COPYRIGHT © 2003 CYCLE SOURCE GROUP LLC ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
Shipping Information


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground: $29.95
Express Air: NOT AVAILABLE






Availability: Usually Ships in 2-3 Business Days

0062-rubicon-sport27xtrRegular Price: $1,699.00Brandsmall Price: $1,499.00

I can't see this one shifting any different than a Trek or a Cannondale with Shimano Deore, I can't see their adjustable suspension being any more or less adjustable than that of both of the Jeep bikes.

What in the world can you use this thing for?

Keep in mind you never sit on a dh bike. You use you hips and knees to control to turning while standing. That odd seat allows for your knees to grab onto the seat and use it like a handlebar if need be. Old school (99) dh seats are freaking huge, 2 ft long and 6 inches wide. No fun to pedal around on but easy for dh and djing :)

Lamajo, almost none of those parts are brand name. The main part of a suspension bike is the suspension and monroe and dnm are not name brands in this industry. I doubt they are good shocks in any forms. The only things brand name on that bike are the odd shimano part otherwise everything is 'generic' to save money. Crap it even comes with a kickstand :)

That Dh bike looks very similar to sum of the honda scrambler moto bikes..... thats no doubt where the first idea came from i would imagine....

Keep in mind you never sit on a dh bike. You use you hips and knees to control to turning while standing. That odd seat allows for your knees to grab onto the seat and use it like a handlebar if need be.

Right :D

That odd seat allows for your knees to grab onto the seat and use it like a handlebar if need be.
so that's what that's for. i thought they just wanted to make it look like an eagle's beak to match their logo, heh.

Lamajo, almost none of those parts are brand name. The main part of a suspension bike is the suspension and monroe and dnm are not name brands in this industry. I doubt they are good shocks in any forms. The only things brand name on that bike are the odd shimano part otherwise everything is 'generic' to save money.
Crap it even comes with a kickstand

Okay so I did some research. Now I do admit that Monroe is probably not the greatest in bike suspension, but that I would count them out. Monroe makes more suspension/suspension systems for more Cars, Truck, Motorcycles, and even Dirt Bikes than any other suspension company. So why would they be generic. Shocks are shocks are shocks. They all operate on the same principle and design, except that a bicycle's has to have the fork's design built into them, kinda like a Motorcycle, Motocross bike or any other 2 wheel or 3 wheel driven machine. And knowing that Monroe makes off road suspensions they do make adjustable shocks to create a more stiff or soft ride. Also keep in mind Monroe is the creator of the Sensatrac system. That one adjusts to the conditions on it's own by using a magnetic system to dampen or stiffen a ride.

So let's start here:


REAR BRAKE: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc
FRONT BRAKE: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc
BRAKE LEVERS: Dia Tech Hydraulic Disc


I went to here http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=DiaTech+Disc+Brakes&spell=1 and look at how many bike shops and reviews there are of Dia Tech Brakes there are. I'd say they are a brand name from a LBS but since it doesn't say the normal ones does it make it different or less effective.

Next:


Christini AWD by White Brothers; Christini 18" AWD Suspension Alloy Frame; REAR HUB: Christini Custom AWD QR FRONT HUB: Christini Custom AWD QR.


I kinda like this stuff, it's pretty interesting.

http://www.christini.com/


Crap it even comes with a kickstand

I'm glad my bike has a kickstand. I hate laying it down in the dirt and grime that damages chains and scratches paint. Oops, I forgot do Kickstands make you a bike geek or something.

http://pricepoint.com/media/Kenda_Kharisma_Tires.jpg

And those are some pretty sweet tires for grip if you ask me. Made by Kenda, sold at most bike shops.

Now about the Honda bike that he was questioning. I do admit that some of the parts are pretty sketchy. Doesn't go into the actual brands for the suspension, and has a different name for the shifter. But for a basic $200.00 bike (which I might add isn't bad for a bike with Disc Brakes) that has full suspension that's not a bad price for brand new. And we've all heard that disc brakes are better than any other type out there. I look at it this way, I've looked into upgrading my brakes on my car to a better compound for like a racing type brake. I looked and looked and they all pretty much (including the higher grade from Auto Zone, Checker, and Pep Boys) all have the same stopping power, heat disipation, and life as the really expensive pads that say they work better. Price doesn't always mean that it's better, it just means that it's more expensive.

Oops I forgot one:


CRANKSET: Truvativ 22/32/44T 175mm


Here is a review of a Truvativ crank from http://www.gearreview.com/truvativ_stylo.php what appears to be a bike review, and their own web site http://www.truvativ.com/ .

Any more questions about the validity of the name/cheapness of these parts.

I understand that just because they exist doesn't make them perfect, but I know quite a bit of people here swear by Shimano, so don't count out the other parts just because you haven't heard of the. Apparently other people have.

Lamajo what exactly do you want? Jeep and Honda are CRAP! period! They are just waterpipes welded together to form an mtb which will try to attract customers loyal to X brand. As for monroe and the completely silly arguement that every shock is the same....you should better do some reading first. A bicycle suspension has to face different forces of different magnitude than car or motorbike suspensions. For example, an F1 shock is designed to absorb high frequency low magnitude mass movements. A bike shock has to deal with huge mass movement at low frequencies...this doesnt sound the same principle to me...

OH and to answer your insult about brands that we may havent heard... its usually people that trust bikes like Jeep or Honda...that also tend to make silly arguements againsts forum members that only want to help through specialized advice... Diatech is LOW END brakes. And monroe...... hahaha silly absorbers for cars. If you want a proper shock for a car try Koni or Bilstein or Kayaba. Sensatrac my @ss

I apologise to all the other forum members if i am aggressive on this.

Oh yeah and as for dnm:

http://www.dnmautopart.com/index_1.html

I know, I know it says autopart. Click on it anyway. It's all bike suspension parts.

hmmm the WELL known Dnm high end shocks that surpass Fox, 5th element, Romic etc.... welldone...

I apologise to all the other forum members if i am aggressive on this.

Oh no, not at all. It's a job well done!

I am 100% sure monroe and dnm make valid parts. But they will still be crap imo. Either way I don't feel like hashing this point out. Monroe shocks work on cars but feel like crap on a bike. Rear shocks are very complex items in general especially on mtb's. These shocks may even feel good (they don't mind you) but they would be heavy. I will count those shocks out until they produce a viable mtb option.

And btw no need to get testy. Especially about a kickstand. On a real trail kickstands are dangerous. They may be useful on a commuter but it is just plain dumb to use one on a mtb trail where it could pop open anytime.

Diatech disc brakes...hmmmm I don't remember who actually makes those but I have used these and they 'work'.

The crank is a good one.

The rubicon actually looks like a decent bike. White Brother forks have a love hate relationship. A few people love them and a lot of people hate them. I would still get something more mainstream. Could find something in the same price range I would think to.

either way I wasn't saying it wouldn't be fun or even a good ride for you. But it isn't a quality bike. One thing honda's definately have against them is weight. Those bikes weigh a tonne and you feel it on the trails. Parts or no parts if I am pedalling a 40 pound bike I want it to be dh quality.

They are just waterpipes

Last time I checked waterpipes are made from either, PVC, Steel, or Copper. I'm pretty sure that both of the Honda and Jeep bikes were made of Alluminum. Never have I ever seen aluminum waterpipes. Kinda amazing, where did you get your information on what they were made of. I got it off of the thread here.


you should better do some reading first. A bicycle suspension has to face different forces of different magnitude than car or motorbike suspensions.

I agree with you, they actually take less magnitude than a dirt bike, motorcycle, car, truck, van, semi truck, or moped, and I can even tell you why. They weigh a whole lot less. You can't tell me that a motor cross bike takes less abuse than a mountain bike. I'm not going to argue the fact that you think that because it's a bike's suspension it is made completely different than the known composition of all shocks. I would say that it would be cheaper to make a bike suspension because they don't take as much abuse as a motorized vehicle. You provide valid proof that they are made differently and I'll shut up and appologize.


its usually people that trust bikes like Jeep or Honda

I neither own nor endorse either. I'm just making a point that if all you have to spend is $200.00 then spend it. It's not going to break, on top of that you can go to the LBS and get it fixed because they are brand names that are sold by LBS's.


If you want a proper shock for a car try Koni or Bilstein or Kayaba

I'll even one up you on that comment. If you want a suspension that can handle rough stuff like off road, try Rancho, Pro Comp. You want a GOOD suspension for your car try KYB AGX, TEIN, KONI is good also really expensive also.


Diatech is LOW END brakes.

So because you paid less for them does that mean they will stop you less. Change the brake pads to a different compound. That makes them different.


Sensatrac my @ss


Question, Why does Cadillac use it if it's "my @ss"?


As for monroe and the completely silly arguement that every shock is the same

As for this statement, where did I say all shocks are the same. I stated that all shocks function on the same principle. You can't tell me that they don't either because you would be a liar. Yes some are built better and more adjustable than others but they still function on the same principles.


forum members that only want to help through specialized advice

And this statement is true because you have ridden, tested, and evaluated the actual performance of every and all bikes that are made in the entire world and are an expert in this field?

I would have to say that unless you have ridden either of these bikes and aren't going off of speculation you have no say. I'm not trying to make these bikes better than any other bike out there, but I do see very amazing similarities between those bikes and your Cannondale, Trek, or all of your other "Brand Name Bikes."

Last time I checked waterpipes are made from either, PVC, Steel, or Copper. I'm pretty sure that both of the Honda and Jeep bikes were made of Alluminum. Never have I ever seen aluminum waterpipes. Kinda amazing, where did you get your information on what they were made of. I got it off of the thread here.

Waterpipe made frames is a terminology for veeeery cheaply made frames....

I agree with you, they actually take less magnitude than a dirt bike, motorcycle, car, truck, van, semi truck, or moped, and I can even tell you why. They weigh a whole lot less. You can't tell me that a motor cross bike takes less abuse than a mountain bike. I'm not going to argue the fact that you think that because it's a bike's suspension it is made completely different than the known composition of all shocks. I would say that it would be cheaper to make a bike suspension because they don't take as much abuse as a motorized vehicle. You provide valid proof that they are made differently and I'll shut up and appologize.

To be honest i dont really care to prove anything to you...stay ignorant.


I neither own nor endorse either. I'm just making a point that if all you have to spend is $200.00 then spend it. It's not going to break, on top of that you can go to the LBS and get it fixed because they are brand names that are sold by LBS's.



I'll even one up you on that comment. If you want a suspension that can handle rough stuff like off road, try Rancho, Pro Comp. You want a GOOD suspension for your car try KYB AGX, KONI is good also really expensive also.



So because you paid less for them does that mean they will stop you less. Change the brake pads to a different compound. That makes them different.



Question, Why does Cadillac use it if it's "my @ss"?

Who said that i like cadillac???? crap....

As for this statement, where did I say all shocks are the same. I stated that all shocks function on the same principle. You can't tell me that they don't either because you would be a liar. Yes some are built better and more adjustable than others but they still function on the same principles.

Same principles my @ss BIGTIME! Look man...if you dont know jacksh1t about shocks then dont make huge stamements.

And this statement is true because you have ridden, tested, and evaluated the actual performance of every and all bikes that are made in the entire world and are an expert in this field?

Actually i have ridden all, and on top of that i test ride all of next years bikes as well.

I would have to say that unless you have ridden either of these bikes and aren't going off of speculation you have no say. I'm not trying to make these bikes better than any other bike out there, but I do see very amazing similarities between those bikes and your Cannondale, Trek, or all of your other "Brand Name Bikes."

do what you want...i dont care...ignorance is a bliss

do what you want...i dont care...ignorance is a bliss

Math2P, you have to understand, not everyone can afford the 5 and 6 hundred dollar bikes. If all he has to spend is 2 hundred bucks, ANY bike that has the same type of parts that everyone recomends, whether they are brand name and high end or not, they are worth the money spent if you are new at the game.

Maybe some day that person will be able to upgrade to a $5000 bike that has all the parts that the number one dh rider has on his bike. That still won't make him the champion rider *with severe sarchasm*.


ignorance is a bliss

Yes it is if you aren't open to more ideas at a lower price to pay.

Maelstrom I agree with you.


either way I wasn't saying it wouldn't be fun or even a good ride for you. But it isn't a quality bike. One thing honda's definately have against them is weight. Those bikes weigh a tonne and you feel it on the trails. Parts or no parts if I am pedalling a 40 pound bike I want it to be dh quality.



The thing I kinda look at it as though. If you have to pedal that 40 pound bike for even 6 months so you can get the 20 pound bike. When you get on it your ride will be even easier because you are used to the extra weight.

Maelstrom I agree with you.



The thing I kinda look at it as though. If you have to pedal that 40 pound bike for even 6 months so you can get the 20 pound bike. When you get on it your ride will be even easier because you are used to the extra weight.

;) I agree thats why I have a dh bike as my trail bike :)

Lamajo...cut me some slack ok? The price of your bike isnt a signal for your riding abilities. If you have 200$ go to an lbs and buy a proper used bike...and not a crap wallmart bike. OK?

If you have 200$ go to an lbs and buy a proper used bike...and not a crap wallmart bike. OK?


Nobody said go to Wal-Mart, the guy found the bike on-line. New vs Used. My opinion, new, Normally has a warranty of some kind.


The price of your bike isnt a signal for your riding abilities.

No it's not, but on the same token just because it's cheaper doesn't make it worse either. Heavier maybe but they are all welded by welders that have probably been doing it for a long time. Aluminum welding is a trade skill and once you do it well you always do it well. It's not you old fashioned stick welding either. You just have to take into consideration that some can't afford the high end 5 pound bike that is specially made by hand from front to back and top to bottom.

Alright, alright people watch it, no need for this to become a fire fight, now calm it down, now.

I read an article recently that mentioned the Honda bikes. I can't remember the specifics but the Honda name was only licensed, something I found a little surprising since Honda has always been well known for their quality. As for weight, don't even make it part of your decision until you decide to race. I did a 2 day race this fall on my 36 lb Bullit and did fine (it was a particularly tough course though). I do better on my 24 lb HT usually, but don't worry about weight until you get to the sport + race level.

Remember, used good bikes can be found cheap.

Forum Moderators, what will it take to close this thread?

Shocks are shocks are shocks. They all operate on the same principle and design, except that a bicycle's has to have the fork's design built into them


Suspension for motorised vehicles is a lot simpler to design than for bicycles - moving mass is more predictable, an engines pistons act in a controlled manner unlike your legs (well mine at least :)) - if you want to learn more about suspension I'd recommend reading articles by Jim Whyte who's worked in both Formula 1 and bike design.



I'm glad my bike has a kickstand. I hate laying it down in the dirt and grime that damages chains and scratches paint. Oops, I forgot do Kickstands make you a bike geek or something.


Kickstands have their place (my folder has one) but to use one for downhill or even on a vaguely technical off-road ride would be stupid in the extreme. I think it's inclusion demonstrates that this is a bike designed only to look like a serious off-road bike. It's main market will be teenagers who hang round outside shops on a Saturday morning and jump kerbs, and for that market it's a fine bike.



And we've all heard that disc brakes are better than any other type out there.

Average disc brakes will out-perform even good rim applied brakes, but good rim brakes will out-perform poor quality disc brakes.



I look at it this way, I've looked into upgrading my brakes on my car to a better compound for like a racing type brake. I looked and looked and they all pretty much (including the higher grade from Auto Zone, Checker, and Pep Boys) all have the same stopping power, heat disipation, and life as the really expensive pads that say they work better. Price doesn't always mean that it's better, it just means that it's more expensive.

Pads for bike disc brakes vary a lot (I can't comment on cars), but it's not just the pads that differ. Rotor size, rotor stiffness, number of pots, whether it's hydraulically controlled or mechanically controlled. If you're seriously considering buying some disc brakes, please do your research into bike brakes - bikes aren't the same as cars.