"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Reevaluating FTP

So I've got a time trial coming up and I recently found out that my powertap was not zeroed for the last week so the numbers are useless from it. Before that I did not have a real race to get an accurate FTP from, as most were shorter than an hour. I'm a little worried about pacing during it and subsequently am trying to find my FTP again. Question 1: Is there a way to remove select workouts from cycling peaks?
Question 2: I know that FTP can be based off of the power distribution chart. What would you assume an FTP from this chart would be.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e400/jains89/Picture1-1.png

I would rely on PE rather than FTP for a time trial but thats me.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e400/jains89/Picture1-1.png

First of all...

http://www.midweekclub.ca/powerFAQ.htm#Q46

Second of all...

You should use 5 Watt bins, I think it would be easier to see. I would guess your ftp is in the 280-300 range. The other thing you might want to do is look at your MMP curve but switch it to normalized power and find an hour. Look at that workout, if that workout has a VI of less than 1.25 you should be able to guesstimate your FTP to +-5% of that value.

Go out and drill it for half an hour: http://www2.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2008/01/ftp-and-power.html

Or:
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/threshold.asp

How do you know your pt numbers are off? It may be correctable...

wayne

280-300 using that one graph

Around 280 using that graph.

If I understand training peaks correctly, it reads the saved workouts files everytime it loads. If you delete the files that you believe are bad, then I would think it would be ok.

Problem is I sold the powertap before I realized it was off. The only way I figured out was the new one i got was reading a little lower. So I assumed that the old was was off, just don't know how much.

If I understand training peaks correctly, it reads the saved workouts files everytime it loads. If you delete the files that you believe are bad, then I would think it would be ok.

So if I delete the files, the MMP graph will be redone? The only reason I can't use the MMP curve is the whole thing is from the last few rides with the old powertap, so I think the whole thing is off. I can't go out there and do the test as the race is next weekend and I'm trying to take it easy next week, so I figured I would be able to base it off of current stats.

do a CTS field test. It's pretty quick. Warm up. 3mile tt effort, 10 minutes rest 3 mile tt effort, average the power for the 2 and take 92% of that.

In my experience its pretty accurate, and a lot easier than doing a one hour effort.

So... what power mechanism are you planning on measuring the power with during the TT's?

So... what power mechanism are you planning on measuring the power with during the TT's?

I bought a new one after I sold the old one. (great deal on a reynolds rim)

OK, take the base data of the old one, on a 280-watt-ish day. Take the minimum torque - it should be zero. If it isn't, you can manually re-zero the data and scale the power appropriately in Excel.

It should be close, assuming your 'bad' data didn't drift too far. I'd personally try at least three, but it's your time/effort.

OK, take the base data of the old one, on a 280-watt-ish day. Take the minimum torque - it should be zero. If it isn't, you can manually re-zero the data and scale the power appropriately in Excel.

It should be close, assuming your 'bad' data didn't drift too far. I'd personally try at least three, but it's your time/effort.

So looking at the file from the old hub, the lowest hub torque was 13. Many of the times when I was slowing down it was reading in the mid 30's. How do you manually re-zero the data? What do you mean "try at least 3"

So looking at the file from the old hub, the lowest hub torque was 13. Many of the times when I was slowing down it was reading in the mid 30's. How do you manually re-zero the data? What do you mean "try at least 3"

see link in post #3

Problem is I sold the powertap before I realized it was off. The only way I figured out was the new one i got was reading a little lower. So I assumed that the old was was off, just don't know how much.


So if I delete the files, the MMP graph will be redone? The only reason I can't use the MMP curve is the whole thing is from the last few rides with the old powertap, so I think the whole thing is off. I can't go out there and do the test as the race is next weekend and I'm trying to take it easy next week, so I figured I would be able to base it off of current stats.


Yes. I tried this last night. To be safe just move the files in quesiton to another directory. Using windows they should be in Program Files>Intellicoach>data>rider name. If you are like me and used the default naming scheme, they should be listed by date and be pretty easy to find.

Since it's BF, I'm going to say 350W.

Do you now know how to zero the torque each ride?

Learn to use the Chalkbord in WKO+ and you can pick any files you want.

Have you checked the calibration on either hub?

I wouldn't assume anything from that graph.

TF

I'm assuming that power distribution graph is over a period of time - which makes it mostly useless for gauging FTP. You'd want a good single ride when using the power distribution, or all rides that would be similarly difficult at/near FTP. If you used the power distro chart for the last 28 days on my Cpeaks, it would indicate an FTP some 40 watts lower than what it is - because of a larger percentage time riding endurance miles than I would ride @ threshold. But if you look at my power distro charts for _only_ @/near threshold days, you'd get a much more accurate picture of FTP.

It's just not that easy to get it from power distro charts, imo. That's why it's not high on the list of ways to determine it.

sidenote: Learn how to zero your torque at the head unit. If you haven't done this, it's your problem, not the PT's.

Interesting discussion here. I'm not trying to completely hijack, but...

I've been estimating my FTP at 345 for the last 2 weeks, but I feel like I'm stronger than that, especially with my new 5-minute record of 454W. The two chances I've had to test FTP were ruined by flash floods and flat tires. Yesterday I went out to hammer with Houston_Biker (my bro-in-law) for 42 miles, and we just kept the pressure up the whole way in a 2-man paceline. Really tough ride, but but not like a race. About 2 hours.

So, this is the distribution from the ride (excluding NMP portions), the green bar is 350-360W. I plan to confirm with a test sometime in the next month, but would that put my FTP at 350+? (With 5w bins, the big drop comes after 360-365, but the lines are too thin to post usefully)

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5853/postzi6.png

If you have PE that tells you something based on what you feel AND see on the meter, that will be wholly more accurate than a power distro examination, IMO.

^^^

I would definitely up your ftp to the 350+ range and then maybe even more after some more formal testing.

On a side note, during a race today I set a 30 MP of 261 and a normalized for that time of 281. I had my FTP set to 255, time to go up as well? I've set several 60 M normalized of over 260 in recent training rides, if that helps.

edit: Reading Friel's blog tells me not to up it since it was a 30 MP set during a race.

So, uh, why the aversion to just doing a test? 30 minutes flat out should be part of a regular training regimen this time of year anyway...

So, uh, why the aversion to just doing a test? 30 minutes flat out should be part of a regular training regimen this time of year anyway...

Yeah, I tried testing twice last week, but was foiled both times. This week I've got some other bleed-from-the-eyes training nonsense planned (Jester pb attempt..., Tuesday Nighter, then I'll be too beat for a good test), then a mini-taper for a race on Sunday.

"Training is testing, testing is training." - Coggan

I only tested MAP this week to confirm what I'd already set on FTP for TSS values and the PMC. Additionally, since I use Stern's training zones I can get a solid upper/lower limit for my zones with a good/fresh MAP test.

I was able to set FTP not based on any formal testing but based on PE of routine workouts. "Training is testing, testing is training." - Coggan

I was talking to my wife about FTP and zones on our road trip last week (she's a great sounding board). Fact is, training zones are so large they've almost become pointless to me. In the same sense, FTP's only real value (great as it may be) is to be the anchor point for IF/TSS and the resulting PMC.

^

Interesting that you mention that, as I was talking/thinking about the same thing this week with riding buddies. The only time I use zones is recovery - I remind myself what the high end of Z2 is, then stay below that.

For actual workouts, I usually use PE for intervals exceeding 20-30 minutes, and for everything less than or equal to 20 minutes it's either full tilt or a specific target wattage, not really a zone.

So looks like I should just go with how I feel for it. Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, I really like FTP as a standard number to track. My main limiter is endurance (sticking it out in a break), so I'm using FTP to gauge that improvement. The only zone I use in training is the bottom end of threshold, which is where I try to SST on my 45-60 minute rides, and my commutes. That line was at 314W for me a few weeks ago, but I've been riding at the same RPE at 325W. Since I train off RPE a lot, the zone isn't that big of a deal.

That said, obsessing about data is what it is :D