Foo - motorcycles

Ok, I seemed to notice that lots of people here had motorcycles. So I figure you all are the first to hear this. I'm thinking about buying one, and I have one in my sights, used, 1999 zx-6r. Its good on the miles and it has a clear title and has never been layed down. Called the insurance co, and am almost ready to go, when I realize I have parents, bummer. So now I need to convince my parents that motorcycles are in fact as safe as my bike and that there should be no problem with me having one. I really do not need their approval, I'm just the type that likes to keep them on my good side, after all its free room and board for 3 months out of the year :)

Any ideas are very welcome :)

thanks
Ross

Motorcycles can be very dangerous, don't kid yourself. That being said, they can also be a lot of fun and great when it comes to parking. If you do get one:
1) be very careful
2) be very careful
3) Just because your bike goes >100mph with ease does not mean you should do it.
4) every ******* in a dropped Honda wants to race, you do not need to prove your bike is faster. It is self evident.

So now I need to convince my parents that motorcycles are in fact as safe as my bike

I have been riding mx, road racing and on the street for 25 years now and have found that a motorcycle is only as safe as the rider.If you can keep your right hand from getting twist happy and properly modulate the brakes in a panic situation you should be safer on a motorcycle then your bike because you will have power to get your self out of bad situation.

Have you road before? If not I would say hold off on a street bike, get your self an enduro and go practice on dirt. The skills you will learn there will make you a better rider when you hit the street. Plus, the enduro will allow you to still ride on the street. Granted it does not have the "cool factor" as the crotch rocket but it will be better to learn on.

Convincing parents to allow you to get your first bike will be tough. My suggestion would be to take a riding course from the "Motorcycle Safety Foundation" which will allow you to get a liscense when you finish it, it will lower your insurance rate and will make your parents feel beter about you riding on the street. It will also show them that you are going to be a responsible rider.

Do you always wear a helmet on your bicycle? If not, your folks may think you will not wear one on a motorcycle ( I am not sure what the laws are in your state ).

Good luck:beer:

I'm open for every class I can get into, I want to be safe on a bike, after all the goal here is to have fun, not die. I'm a safe person, so until I finish the classes, I'll start riding more than around the block. I'm not going to take chances, its really not worth it, like racing, since I can beat 95% of all honda's in my jeep its not worth racing on a bike. I really dont know what to tell them, or how for that matter. Is there any site that has statistics on motorcycles?

thanks
-Ross

I have been riding for 13 years on the street. A zx6r is not a good first bike if you want to be safe. You don't wnat to look up statistics if you want to talk your parents into letting you get a motorcycle. The best thing is go take the safety course and talk with the instructors. People all say that you can start on a fast bike if you are careful and this is true, but in college I told my friend he would do fine on a ZX7 and now he is dead so please consider looking at another bike.

On a lighter note they are the most fun you can have on the street jsut be careful.

Stay Safe
MATT

I found this thread interesting since I too just got into motorcycles this summer. MattC is right,
a zx6r is way too much to start w/. I came close to buying that same bike but changed my mind
after researching them. I'm glad I didn't get it. While you're learning there will be a few times that
you accidentily give it to much throttle. On a bike like that, you're asking for trouble to start with. Check
out www.beginnerbikes.com. They have some great recommendations on bikes to start out with.
They are a blast but you have to be careful with them.

Well,

I used to motorcycle and quit. I have known too many people that died or ended up paralyzed etc. from the activity.

I agree with what others have said, if you insist on getting a bike, get something slower for a first bike.

Also, after you have been on the bike a couple of months you might decide you know how to ride, you dont. Wait until you have 2-5k miles on a bike on the street before you even think of pushing it.

Also, there is no way to convince your parents a motorcycle is as safe as a bicycle unless you lie like a rug. Riding a motorcycle on the street in traffic is about the most dangerous activity there is.

take care,

Jester

I'm not a motorbiker, in fact I've never ridden one, but if I was in the market for a beginner bike I'd check out a Suzuki SV-650. Not as much power as the I4s and lighter so it should be easier to learn on. Plus they are quite afordable as far as sport bikes go.

Ross

Motorcycles can be a lot of fun but as folks have said here be careful! Motorcycles are not inherently dangerious but like airplanes, boats,... they are totally unforgiving of ignorant or careless acts. Even for a second take classes ride in the dirt for a while.

What Jester69 said about after you've ridden a little and thinking you know how. That is a well known fact from avation if you look at when accidents occur it's not the new rider/flyer it's at the couple of hundered hour point. So take another safety class when you think you don't need it.

Good luck
joe

I like motorcycles

I say throw caution to the winds.

Hopefully I can save you some money, maybe save your life....

I grew up racing Motocross, and raced 250 semi-pro in high school, 35 years ago...got hurt and started bicycling racing for 15 years, and another 20 years of serious bicycling on top of that.

I bought a SV-650s a couple of years ago.....it is considered a good starter bike, but with enough power to keep you happy, assuming you survive the first year. I never fell, never crashed, never got hit....but have several occasions where had I blinked or looked away I would have been hit by people running lights, turning in front of me, etc. I could have been real dead. I kept riding my road bicycle during the 2 years I had the SV650. In the end I realized that cycling was more fun and more of a challenge than riding the motorcycle even on world famous roads like nearby Palomar Mountain.

Modern sportbike are so fast and corner so well, that riding at even "semi-legal" speeds on the public roads is boring, assuming you have good skills. Many newbies don't have good skills why insurace on a $10,000 supersport bike can be over $1500/year for a new rider. Unless you want to pay to go ride at a track day, and risk falling at 50 to 130 mph, then riding on the street isn't that exciting after the newness wears off.

Save your money, IMHO. Been their done that.

Assuming you buy the bike anyway, take and pass a MSF class, buy a good jacket, pants, boots, gloves, and helmet before you riding. If you buy new plan on spending about $1000 just for the gear.

Whatever you get, understand the concept and execution of countersteering, or you will really get into trouble. Especially the first time you get on the highway and run straight off the road at 90+ because you couldn't turn the bike into a corner.

I say buy a one liter Japanese sport bike capable of 150+ mph and learn to ride it in the rain.

Ive ridden since '75, from Scooters to Harleys and here are my boorish observations:

Motorcycles are nowhere near as safe as your bike.....Things happen real fast :eek:

You WILL fall/drop bike at some point, hopefully its doing something silly, like backing
into a parking space and not going wide at 65mph.....

Sportbikes are the most useless MC's in the food chain. Uncomfortable for long
periods and definitely NOT nimble in most real life road circumstances......

I would suggest the best kept secret in Motorcycling, a boring, ugly DR650 :)
You will toast all the sportbike kiddies on a back road, at least keep KTM tailites
in view on the trail and dart in and out of traffic like a little water flea on
a triple latte :thumb:

You will never learn proper bike handling skills on a 4 cylinder bike as a first.
Good luck, be safe !

Just came back from riding my 185 Kawasaki - which is what they call a ranch bike, sort of comfortable dirt bike. I have never had it on pavement. Just about right on power for me since I just want to cruise around looking at great scenery, and the roads here at times resemble motocross. :rolleyes:

I just started riding this last year, and I am nearly 50. In all honesty, I find it very easy, but I started slow. My suggestion is this: start with starting, stopping and turning at low speeds, when you get REALLY good (i.e. you can do it automatically) you can increase your speed.

This is something you do with climbing trees. We have a phrase "slow and low" You start off climbing slowly and not very high so that if you get into trouble, you survive. Save the dangerous stuff for when you need to get out of a jam.

One study I read said that up to 40 kilometers a helmet will help, after that, you pretty much are into luck. Also NEVER NEVER NEVER drink and ride a motorcycle, unless you have a death wish. This is what kills many people. I know it sounds incredibly stupid - but people do drink and ride a motorcycle.

If you are young, please understand you are not immortal - we who are older get this really well - except for Patentcad who is a alien...

Whatever you get, understand the concept and execution of countersteering, or you will really get into trouble. Especially the first time you get on the highway and run straight off the road at 90+ because you couldn't turn the bike into a corner.

A couple summers ago a guy was riding his brand spanking new Harley home from the dealer. Forgot how to turn it on an interstate ramp and lost it over the side. I think he made it 13 miles from the dealership before he killed himself. First time on a motorcycle.

Take the msf course. When I took it there were a couple people they failed. One rider was so bad I didn't want to be near him during the riding drills.

Fun, dangerous activity.

I did the motorcycle thing a couple of years back.

The track is by far the most fun you will ever have. It actually really calms down your street riding, because once you go on the track, and realize how fast you can go around corners and how far you can lean the bike, you realize that doing anything like that on the street is just suicide.

Then, I got hit head-on by an SUV when I was doing everything right, it was completely the SUV's fault, who then of course fled the scene, and after that I basically gave up riding the road.

I did go back to the track once, and fell off at about 70 to 90 mph, when a guy pushed me wide coming out of the corner and off the track. Some broken ribs and about 20 minutes of amnesia, but otherwise none the worse for wear.

I kind of lost interest in motorcycling because I didn't like riding the road and wasn't that good on the track. And my bike, a Ducati 750 F1 is impossible to get parts for, and it's been languishing in the carport ever since.

I want a motorcycle myself, but I'm not going to buy one until I take the MSF courses, and buy myself some generic bike that can take laydown when I do something stupid.

After a couple hundred hours on the road, then I'll buy something like a BMW tourer, once I am decent enough I'm not going to plop the thing over due to pure braindeadness.

Oh, advice from friends who do ride:

Buy good leathers. Kevlar stuff, not just a leather jacket and an open faced helm. The cost for premium crash gear is a LOT cheaper than a new knee or a rebuilt face.

I would suggest the best kept secret in Motorcycling, a boring, ugly DR650

This, and my Aprilia Scarabeo 500 maxi-scooter satisfies my motorcycle needs.

I say Loud Pipes Save Lives.

I say ABS brakes are the Man's Plot to Wrest Control of our Motorcycles from our Cold Dead Hands.

I say Loud Pipes Save Lives.

Get a muffler.
Thanks
YouTube - Bicycles and a Harley

Helmet laws are the Man's Plot to Encase Our Heads in Plastic Cages. Live Free or Die.

I agree that the zx's are a lot of bike for a first one. But, that said, if you're going to be very conservative while you learn to ride it and motorcycles in general, you'd probably be OK.

They're similiar in some ways to riding bicycles, but very different in many others. Don't let the fact that you can ride a bicycle lull you into a false sense of confidence about riding a motorcycle.

And the bottom line is the only way you can convince your parents that it's as safe as riding a bicycle is if they're total morons. It's not, pure and simple. People do ride millions of safe miles on them, but it's because they're driven by good riders, not because it's as safe as riding a bicycle.

Let me be the first to say "Holly dead thread Batman!".

Anthony

Take the msf course. When I took it there were a couple people they failed. One rider was so bad I didn't want to be near him during the riding drills.

Agree. If you don't already know how to ride, you owe it to yourself to attend a Motorcycle Safety Foundation (http://www.msf-usa.org/) class. They won't teach you everything you need to survive on the road, but you definitely need to know everything they teach! Once you've completed an MSF RiderCourse, don't assume that your training is done. In fact, it's just begun! Ride for a couple of months, then consider a racetrack-based training program. Something like the California Superbike School, Jason Pridmore's STAR Motorcycle School, or if you're in California give my boss (http://www.keigwin.com/) a call. Even if you don't plan to ride on the track or race motorcycles, you will learn a lot at one of these programs. I know that for myself, riding on the track made me a significantly better rider.

You should also familiarize yourself with the Hurt Report (http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html), so you'll have some understanding of the types of things that will increase your risk of getting killed. The data is somewhat old, but most of the conclusions still apply.

When planning your purchase of a motorcycle, don't forget to factor in the cost of safety gear. You'll want a full-face helmet, gloves, jacket, boots, and pants. Lots of guys buy a cool-looking jacket and figure they'll buy boots and pants later. Bad idea: the legs and feet are parts of your body most likely to be injured in a motorcycle crash! It's easy to drop a lot of money on gear: $300 for a jacket, $300 for a helmet, $75-100 on gloves, $250 on pants, and another $200 on boots isn't unreasonable. Figure $1000 to get decent, if not great, gear.

As others have suggested, a 1999 Kawasaki ZX-6R is a lot of bike if you've never ridden before. I rode for a couple of years before buying a 600cc sportbike and even then I damn near killed myself a couple of times. Also, keep in mind that as a newer rider you will drop or crash the bike at some point. Sportbikes will full fairings are generally expensive to repair. Each body panel will cost $400-600 or more to replace; even dropping the bike in a parking lot can scratch 2 or 3 panels. Older bikes may be significantly less reliable than newer bikes. My first motorcycle was more than 10 years old; I was constantly battling electrical gremlins, which made the bike significantly less enjoyable to ride.

The Suzuki SV650 that somebody else already mentioned is a much better starter bike in many respects. There will be slightly less power than a 600cc sportbike, the V-twin engine will rev slower and deliver power more linearly than the ZX-6R, the riding position will be more comfortable, and there is less plastic to replace when you drop/crash the bike. Linear power delivery is definitely a good thing for a beginner. At the racetrack, I absolutely love the way an inline 4-cylinder engine explodes with power when it finally winds up into the power-band. But that same characteristic gets a lot of people into trouble, too...

i found that riding a bicycle well helped with the motorcycle learning...the only new stufff was the throttle control...i went with a 4 cyl but not a race replica, the insurance on those was too much, as well as the advice off others.

If you do very well with the msf course the ninja 650 / er-6n, and SV650 are nice bikes that you won't get bored of...cheap to insure good all arounders naked/standard seating 2up and touring possible.

New Suzook TU250 :thumb:

http://www.bikez.com/pictures/suzuki/2009/28256_0_1_2_tu250_Image%20credits%20-%20Suzuki.jpg

0r, one of these used, can be had for about 2000.00:

http://www.lemonjustice.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/2003-buell-blast-small.jpg

Belt drive, 500cc, it'll never break :)

I've been riding since I was 13, so over 40 years.

I can tell you that everyone, and everything out there....is always trying to kill or maim you when you're on a motorcycle.

I agree with others that school or even a good year of dirt riding will probably be the best thing you could ever do to hone street riding survival skills. Invaluable others will come from close calls you may survive if you're lucky.

Warpspeed bikes like the one you're considering, have a very nasty habit of whispering into your brain that they can go much faster than you're currently going. They also like to show-off. If there are girls around, you will not be in control of the situation.

I've had a lot of different bikes. I have found the Kawahondazukies Dual-sport 650 thumper type bikes to have the best seating, power, and suspension ergonomics for maximum street surviveability, with the added benefit of being able to go from street to gnarly trail. They will often reward many street bike riders with their suprising hole shot capabilities.

Also what San Rensho brought up....countersteering...the physics of gyroscopic precession of your motorcycle's wheels that cause your bike to want to go the opposite direction that you turn your handlebars when going over about 40mph....can't be stressed enough. Learn about it...study it closely...make it your friend.

That said, riding has been one of the most enjoyable parts of my life, except for the street sweeper "thing".....but I lived. :thumb:

I've no great wisdom to add, but my two cents: I was told when I first started riding that most bad accidents happen not in the first six months but after that, up till the second year or so - because by then you have the skills and confidence to ride more boldly, but not the wisdom and experience to know when to play it safe.


as others have said, you will go down. Every single person I ever met who rode had two common tales to tell: what kind of bike they had, and their injuries (which they pulled sleeves and pant legs up to reveal - not pretty).

My advice: think about how cool it is to go fast etc etc. Then think about your poor mother coming to identify the pizza you'll leave behind in the morgue. Have fun, but don't be stupid.

let me be the first to say "holly dead thread batman!".

Anthony

:d:d:d

Best advise I ever heard about street riding?

Ride like you're invisible.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w41/don_alejo/IMG_3956.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w41/don_alejo/IMG_3983.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w41/don_alejo/IMG_4124.jpg

Something old, something new, something blue, something borrowed.

Best advise I ever heard about street riding?

Ride like you're invisible.

That is The Second Best Advise.

First Learn to Use Both Brakes at the same time.

I was Lucky and rode 28 years accident free.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/patentcad/ST1300-3.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/patentcad/ST1300-3.jpg

You are a *** if you don't come over and ride my bikes.

The missus will be most pleased with the Santa Fe scene for shure.

Best advise I ever heard about street riding?

Ride like you're invisible.I think an attitude that's somewhere between "I'm invisible," and "every last one of these vicious ****s is actively trying to kill me" is the best.

Very similar to riding a bicycle on the road, actually. Just faster and even more "in" traffic.

That is The Second Best Advise.

First Learn to Use Both Brakes at the same time.



And, BEFORE the corner :)

In the winter, watch out for the patches heating oil trucks slop on the road after they
fill the house. Same for Toll Booths.....One of the easiest fall-over situations for the
unprepared :eek:

And since we're turning this old-ass thread into a picture thread, the Lil' Bast-ard:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/x136/motorcycles/img_0648.jpg

Modern sportbike are so fast and corner so well, that riding at even "semi-legal" speeds on the public roads is boring, assuming you have good skills. Many newbies don't have good skills why insurace on a $10,000 supersport bike can be over $1500/year for a new rider. Unless you want to pay to go ride at a track day, and risk falling at 50 to 130 mph, then riding on the street isn't that exciting after the newness wears off.

Assuming you buy the bike anyway, take and pass a MSF class, buy a good jacket, pants, boots, gloves, and helmet before you riding. If you buy new plan on spending about $1000 just for the gear.

I'll agree with this part of Merlin's post 100%. As a life long road and dirt rider, AMA Road Racing License Holder, and (in a few short months a factory certified Suzuki and Yamaha Tech) I advise against getting the ZX6 (or any modern sportbike) as a first bike. An SV650 or even the new Ninja 250 (If you must go sport bike) would be better choices. Take the MSF course BEFORE buying a bike. And if you decide to buy a bike a good helmet, jacket, gloves and riding boots are the Minimum gear you should have on ANY time you throw your leg over the bike.

Good Luck.:thumb:

And since we're posting pics...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/cycle17/My%20Gixxers/DSC02269.jpg

Heres my DR while it still looked new, pre-knobbies and being set up for Dual Sport events.
Out of the 20 or so bikes Ive owned, this was by far and away the most fun :)

Oooh, it's bike picture time. :D

http://paularickert.net/albums/userpics/Keigwins_2007-10-08F%7E0.JPG

#2 (work still in progress)

http://paularickert.net/albums/userpics/kz-13.JPG

#3

http://paularickert.net/albums/userpics/honda03.JPG

And let's get this whole "250 is a noob's bike" crap out of the way. You'll only need to sell it in 2 or 3 months if you are compensating for a very small penis. I've put over 27k miles on ninja 250s and am still happy with them. I wish I still had my first one, but the neighbor ran it over so I had to get another :(

I still miss the 250 I had on loan! ;)

I still miss the 250 I had on loan! ;)It'll make its way out to your new "block" one of these days, don't worry. :D

At a grand or two, it's worth having one just to ride around town and keep the miles off of the more expensive bikes. Less crying when it gets run over in a parking lot too. :(

I think an attitude that's somewhere between "I'm invisible," and "every last one of these vicious ****s is actively trying to kill me" is the best.


And, BEFORE the corner :)

:lol: :thumb: