Southern California - Pics of my current fit...

hey dudes,

remember my fit woes? You guys asked me to post photos, so here they are. I forgot to get in the drops, but i ride the hoods like 98% of the time, so ya. Here's a link to the bike (http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?a=b&minisite=10029&arc=2007&spid=22207&language=US) click on geometry to see the numbers. I am currently on the 51


Anyhow,the bike has a 51.8 cm tt and 80mm stem. How does it look? My hands get tired after 10 miles, but that could be because i need to get back to the shape i was in before i moved to LA. (I stopped riding for about a year )

i tired a 70mm stem with a crazy rise and it was really uncomfortable as most my weight shifted to the rear.

So does it look like the tt is too long? That was my biggest concern, since my hands felt like they were reaching a tad. the next frame size down is only 1.2 cm shorter on the tt, but the bars would be lower since the frame is also smaller, so it would probably work out the same way in the end?

I really just want to be comfortable more than anything else. Once i put it in some mileage i'm sure i'll drop the stem etc. Does it look like it fits? What changes do you guys suggest?

I did lower the saddle on my last ride but it felt too low, like my knees were bent too mcuh, so i brought it back up.

opinions... i know you got some.

also, remember how i said titling the bars up helped? well, not really. I went on a longer ride and realized ti still pretty much felt the same way. So im thinking of getting either the 75mm stem that has a +20 deg rise or the 70mm stem that has the same rise as i have now, which is +16 deg.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2067/2356511286_ca02b39213.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2356510572_25722047dc.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2122/2355675371_3598cfed20.jpg

And here I expected either the bike or your jersey to be pink, pink, pink. :)

The only thing that looks a little off to my untrained eye is that there's not enough bend in your knee when your leg is fully extended. You might want to drop the seat a wee bit; that's what I'd do. The rest looks cool to me.

well to start your seat is too high

ya, i figured it was a tad high. any lower feels like my knees are bent all the time, but i'll lower it a tad.

they are supposed to be bent all the time. good starting point is about 30

It's my understanding that there should be a wee bend in the knee when the pedal is at the lowest point. So they should feel bent all the time... again, as I understand it. I'm not a fitter, so... take anything I say with a grain of salt. :)

ya, being bent all the time makes me feel like im riding a bmx, maybe i just need to adjust though.

how does everything else look? most importantly the reach? my torso/arms...

To me it looks OK. You don't look really stretched out or anything. The only thing that looks off is the seat height.

Your knees should be bent all the time. You don't want them to straighten out at the bottom. That'll damage your knees quickly, and you won't be able to make as much power there either.

There should be a 25 degree bend in your knee at the bottom of the pedal stroke, with your foot in the normal position for you (i.e. not with your heel dropped way down). I'd say that your seat's at least 1cm too high (but maybe not if you naturally pedal with toes down). Move it down in gradual increments.

Also, ride with a slight bend in your elbows. That keeps you from getting jolted around when you hit a bump.

ya, being bent all the time makes me feel like im riding a bmx, maybe i just need to adjust though.

how does everything else look? most importantly the reach? my torso/arms...

You don't look stretched out at all to me... you'll want to lower your seat as others have said... do it a teensy bit at a time, you aren't that far off... you want your leg to be just a little bit bent at the bottom of your pedal stroke... if you leave it like it is, you will have problems with the back of your knees... you look great!!!!

lower the seat about 2/10" to start you want to have bent knees in the pedal stroke.

if your hands/palm hurts some, you are putting to my weight over them in your grip on the hoods, try to rotate the bars up like 2*. What you are tryin to do is spread out that pressure point over a larger area over the palms near the thumb

Seat is DEFINITELY too high. That may be what is throwing weight forward onto your hands. Lowering the seat will also effectively move you closer to the handlebars. So fix that first before trying anything else.

based on your pics i think you look like you're on the right size. i agree with lowering the seat, but not by too much, a couple mm's to start maybe.
what jumps out at me though is your arms are basically locked out in each shot. that'll guarantee sore numb hands very quickly as well as a sore neck and back. your reach doesn't look too long at all, but girl you need to keep the arms bent and relaxed! think supple elbows.
the more i look at it i have no doubt the next size down would have been too small.

There should be a 25 degree bend in your knee at the bottom of the pedal stroke, with your foot in the normal position for you (i.e. not with your heel dropped way down). I'd say that your seat's at least 1cm too high (but maybe not if you naturally pedal with toes down). Move it down in gradual increments.i've read that it should be approximately a 10º bend at the knee. have someone ride behind you too make sure your hips aren't rocking from the saddle being too high as this will definitely cause discomfort in many areas

thanks guys.

other than saddle height, and elbow bend, anything else look off?

In regards to the elbow bend, i think i am stretched out a little bit and maybe thats why i have such stiff arms. Maybe if it was a tad shorter I would have a natural bend? or should i be consciously bending and hunching over as a result? This sounds so mechanical, i'm sure i bend when i go over stuff. i was kind of coasting in these photos...

The only thing that seems off on this bike is the reach, sometimes it feels a tad far. Maybe lowering the saddle and tilting the bars up even more as someone suggested might help (though theyre already tilted up)

and surferrbruce, thanks for chiming in on frame size. my main worry was that I may have been fitted on a frame that was a tad too big/long in the tt. Like i said, the next size down was only 1.2 cm shorter in the tt but a good 2cm shorter in the seat tube as well, which im thinking would pretty much cancel it out.

thanks guys.

other than saddle height, and elbow bend, anything else look off?

In regards to the elbow bend, i think i am stretched out a little bit and maybe thats why i have such stiff arms. Maybe if it was a tad shorter I would have a natural bend? or should i be consciously bending and hunching over as a result? This sounds so mechanical, i'm sure i bend when i go over stuff. i was kind of coasting in these photos...

The only thing that seems off on this bike is the reach, sometimes it feels a tad far. Maybe lowering the saddle and tilting the bars up even more as someone suggested might help (though theyre already tilted up)

and surferrbruce, thanks for chiming in on frame size. my main worry was that I may have been fitted on a frame that was a tad too big/long in the tt. Like i said, the next size down was only 1.2 cm shorter in the tt but a good 2cm shorter in the seat tube as well, which im thinking would pretty much cancel it out.

elbow bend is sometimes just a habit... I know sometimes I find myself riding straight-armed and have to remind myself to keep that bend. I think you may just not be used to the reach since (I think) its a different type of bike than what you were used to? It took me a while to get used to a change from my more upright touring bike.

Seriously, you look great, enjoy your beautiful new bike! :D

thanks!

Make sure your rear derailleur limit screws are adjusted propely then ditch the spoke protector. Looks like a frizbee!:D

i know! I didn't want to take it off (as well as the safety stickers) until i was 100% sure i didn't need to exchange it.

it's embarrassing!

As others have suggested, I would lower that saddle maybe 1/2". This will also effectively move the saddle slightly farther forward.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2122/2355675371_3598cfed20.jpg

The others are more help in the fit department. I'm here to compliment both the sweet bike and lovely rider on the bike. ;) :)

I don't have any other fit comments that haven't been put forth, but I wanted to echo M.E. and comment on the nice bike and pics!!

If lowering the seat doesn't create the bend in your elbows then move the seat forward a tad.

I would resist from moving your saddle forward, from the top pic it looks like you are already far enough forward in the saddle.. You do not want your the front of your knee when the crank is parallel to be too much in front of the pedal spindle. You definitely need to lower the saddle, at least 1/3 of an inch to start.

Helmet?

this was pre ride. i always wear a lid.

and thanks folks.

feel free to chime in if you have other opinions that have not been voiced already.

<3

Lower your saddle about 1.5 centimeters and move it back about .5-1cm. Your knee is too far forward when at the 3 o'clock (knee over spindle) and your seat is pretty high...

Things to focus on when riding...

rotate your hips forward, drop your heel over the top and relax your shoulders..your hunched over because too mcuh weight is on your handle bars...moving the seat back will fix your KOPs (knee over spindle) problem and take some of the weight off your hands.

if it feels to stretched out try getting a shorter stem.

i'd fit it.

I'll be the first to mention that you need at least a slight bend in your knee . . . and I second what Barabus said; Moving the seat slightly forward may give your arms room to bend, and give your knee a slight bend as well without lowering the seat.

I went through this whole episode recently . . . just take it easy. A new set-up may feel odd at first, but may feel great after a few miles.

Good Luck Pink

Ditto on the saddle being high. I'd move it down in half cm increments, ride it, and have someone else look at it. Lather, rinse, repeat until it's good.

Also it looks like the saddle could go *back* a cm or so, but that will make you feel more stretched out.

after writing that I checked P2, and discovered Crash pretty much wrote the same thing. I agree.

I also don't think the bike is too big for you at all. You might be used to a really upright position, and it's reasonable to use that as a starting point on the new bike, too. As you spend a lot more time on it you could easily go with a little longer stem and have a good position and bent elbows, but that's the kind of thing that you'll know yourself when it's time for and won't need to ask us about.

My friend who just picked up a nice bike on ebay is kind of opposite you-- I think she looks a little stretched out and I'm trying to tweak her into a ~1 cm or so shorter stem, even though in a year or two I think she'll like the bike more with a longer stem. Mostly because she's going to turn out crazy strong if she sticks with it, but right now she's doesn't have the experience to be comfortable controlling the bike at the speeds she can ride.

I'm here to compliment both the sweet bike and lovely rider on the bike. ;) :)

That's certainly worth a +1. :)

Also it looks like the saddle could go *back* a cm or so, but that will make you feel more stretched out.

Looking at the pictures, I thought she was too far forward as well. Moving the seat back will push her weight back and should take pressure off her hands. When the hips go back, the body will naturally lean forward more to compensate, so I don't think she'll feel any more stretched out, but will feel more balanced.

Of course, a proper fitting is always best.

One thing to check is your saddle tilt.. If it has a slight downward tilt, it will place a lot of pressure on your hands. I prefer my saddle slightly tilted up, but that is a personal preference..

Did the shop you bought it from offer a fitting for you??

i did get a fitting at the shop. a fitting that i paid for. not a quick let's adjust your saddle and send you off quickie. I did ask him to make sure the fore aft was dialed in. even though the fit took like 2 hours, it still felt rushed cause the store was closing.

i also saw two other friends on the side after. one who lowered the saddle, which i raised after because it felt too low :D and another who suggested that the saddle could go back a little but i didn't want to mess with the original fitter's adjustments and i didn't want to stretch out even more, so I left it as is:o

if i am not dead tired after work tomorrow, i will lower the saddle about 1cm, push it back .5cm, tilt the nose up, take it for a quick 10 mile spin and report back.

<3

yes, adjust the saddle.

Hi Terror_in_pink,

Bike fit over the internet is always a bit scary to me but...

As most everyone has said, your saddle is too high. However, as only some have said, please lower it in small increments -- 1/4 inch at a time at the most. Get used to how it feels over a few rides and if it's still too high then lower it a little bit more.

Regarding your locked elbows, that really isn't a function of reach. Locked elbows are really personal technique. Bicycle racers have long and low stems to get into a good aerodynamic position and they do not ride with locked elbows when they are on the hoods. Locked elbows can cause other aches and pains, especially in the shoulders and upper back.

Bar height relative to the saddle is more a function of lower back strength and flexibility. So if you're having lower back pain, keeping the bar height relative close to the saddle height can help.

Finally, if your problems are severe, a bike fitting by a professional is worth the cost.

EDIT: Sorry, somehow I missed your post above about having paid for a fitting. I would definitely question the ability of a fitter who left you in that state.

Hope this helps.

While I already voiced my opinion, I have to agree with Cleave that bike fitting over the internet like this is pretty useless. A couple static pics, not even shot exactly from the side, of a rider who is coasting, just isn't the same as observing the rider pedalling. For example, if you pedal toes down then your seat height that looks too high when you are coasting, may be correct.

I'd put more faith in a personal fitting from someone who can observe the rider actually riding. But they'll fit based on their experience, both personal and with other riders. That may not work exactly right for you. Don't be afraid to move things around yourself. If you do, you should take measurements and keep notes, so you can go back when you make things worse instead of better.

As far as the elbows go I'd also agree with Cleave, and point out that even though I've been riding and racing for 10 or 12 years and done tons of miles I still have to remind myself to keep the elbows bent.

TIP, any chance in bending forward a couple of degrees without it being a detriment to the comfort you're trying to maintain?

I've only been riding for a month or two now but have found my torso (core) strength increasing over time (read: riding more aerodynamically with greater ease). When riding almost upright, I'd have all my weight on my arms and hand leading to palm, wrist, and elbow soreness after very short rides. Nowadays, I've got a considerable amount of bend while keeping a fairly straight back (hardley any hunch) and a nice bend at the elbows. It's almost like my arms are only used to guide the direction of the handlebars. All of my weight is focused near my pelvic region while all the effort is used through my legs.

I say give bending forward a bit a try and I'm sure your issued with hand fatigue will be gone in no time.



Also, as stated a number of times above, lower your seat. My fitter mentioned that your pedal stroke should exhibit feet/soles parallel to the ground in order to maximize muscle efficiency. From what I gather, if your heels are up and toes are pointed down during the bottom of your pedal stroke, you'll only be using a certain set of muscles (which could lead to premature fatigue).

FYI knee over the pedal spindle is only a VERY rough guide of where the saddle should be positioned. There are a number of other factors that play into this. Peter White has an interesting take on bike fit (http://peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm). You might try his balance test: Put the bike on the trainer. Stand STRAIGHT up on the pedals. Then squat and hinge your upper body, with your hands just above but NOT touching the handlebars. If you place the saddle right where your butt lands, you will basically be balanced over the pedals, and have very little weight on your hands. This is a good rough starting point (read his article for factors that may alter this).

Peter White has an interesting take on bike fit (http://peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm). You might try his balance test: Put the bike on the trainer. Stand STRAIGHT up on the pedals. Then squat and hinge your upper body, with your hands just above but NOT touching the handlebars. If you place the saddle right where your butt lands, you will basically be balanced over the pedals, and have very little weight on your hands. This is a good rough starting point (read his article for factors that may alter this).

I tried that method and it places my saddle waaay back where no amount of seatpost set back or saddle rail can reach.

besides...who has a trainer? We live SoCal, we have no need for trainers here! Move to Alaska, THAT's where I actually used the trainer I used to have! :D
Chris

I tried that method and it places my saddle waaay back where no amount of seatpost set back or saddle rail can reach.

He also notes that fit is a series of compromises. Example, that position also moves the handlebars back, thus reducing power in a standling climbing situation. But given TIP's hand pain, which would seem to indicate too much weight forward, it may be another data point to look at.

Hi Terror_in_Pink,

I am Sally, wife of Wkend_warrior. I can see you're still struggling w/ the bike situation. From the pictures, your riding position was similar to how I looked when I first started. If you don't mind, I will share some of my experiences about bike fitting after I have been riding for the past 9 months. I am no expert, but, looking at your position/posture, I do agree with Cleave's comments about "locked elbows"... it is really true b/c I suffered a lot of left shoulder and upper back pain which prompted me to get a second professional fitting. My second fitter suggested that a good posture (leaning forward, shoulders/hands at rest, and bent elbows) is also crucial to good riding, because not all bike can be fitted to your exact size. I found that riding with a group made me learned good posture quickly. Other riders are ususally more experienced and gave me many helpful tips about riding posture. If you are not accustomed to group ride, you may check out "You Tube" for some inspiration. Lastly, a second opinion from another fitter may be worth a try.

I fit a lot of folks to bicycles and have a lot of bikes to fit myself too... always avoid drastic changes as a cm here and a cm there can make a world of difference.

When you set the saddle height you want to be able to maintain a bend in your knee throughout the pedal stroke and account for when you might drop your heel a little.

If you put the pedal at it's 6 o'clock position and drop your heel and cannot maintain a bend in your knee the saddle has to come down and since you have ridden fixed you know how important it is to get that perfect saddle height to keep you from overextending or bouncing off the saddle.

Like other's have said, I'd be dropping that saddle 1/4 to 1/2 an inch as your leg looks to be fully extended when your are flat footed in the 6 o'clock position.

This will affect other things like the reach to the bars so a little fore aft correction might also be required.

All in all...you and the bike look really good together.

i went for a quick 10 mile spin after lowering the seat and pushing it back a tad. i made sure to keep my elbows bent. My upper back (shoulders) is/are feeling a tad sore. I guess i was bending forward more and using muscles in my back i don't usually use. I didn't notice improvement in the reach/hands department, but i did notice a major change in the climbing department. I climbed 600 feet in 2 miles with a surprising ease. Maybe I am getting more power out of my pedal stroke? I did a lot of ascending and descending today, so i am not sure if i can really comment on the hands/reach department, but i didn't notice much improvement. it just feels a tad far, or maybe theres still a lot of weight on them. Will report back after going on a flatter ride with a more concrete response. I am definitely surprised by the climb though, it could be that I have been riding more too, or maybe a combo of everything.

Have you checked to make sure your saddle is level? This can cause pressure in the hands.

Lowering the saddle will give you better reach but if you also moved the saddle back that will more than offset that. It sounds like once you get the saddle height dialed in, you should look at a shorter stem to start if you are feeling like you are reaching too much.

i forgot to mention that i titled the nose up a little before i left, but pulled over mid ride to tilt it back down cause soft tissue was getting a little smashed. It felt good after i tilted it back down. I have to look again to see how level it is, as i was out when i adjusted it.

I tried that method and it places my saddle waaay back where no amount of seatpost set back or saddle rail can reach.

I had that same problem when I tried to find the "tuck" balance point. I also found my pelvis rotated way forward, and could not get a saddle that would relieve the perineal pressure. Got a fitting at a good shop, and it's much different and better.

To the OP, did your fitter offer to make adjustments if you come back in with complaints or concerns? Mine did, and it's been important to do so.

I'd also say if you are going to adjust your saddle down and back, make the increments around 2 mm per step. AND keep records of how far you moved on what date. This is so you can reverse the changes and get back to the position the fitter found. It might even be the best one. I know it's hard to make such fine motions, but your saddle might be close to its best spot, and you don't want to overshoot that point and keep going say, lowering the saddle, because you really don't want to get your saddle too low! You want to feel improvements and then the lack of improvement as you go past the sweet spot.

Road Fan

i went for a quick 10 mile spin after lowering the seat and pushing it back a tad. i made sure to keep my elbows bent. My upper back (shoulders) is/are feeling a tad sore. I guess i was bending forward more and using muscles in my back i don't usually use. I didn't notice improvement in the reach/hands department, but i did notice a major change in the climbing department. I climbed 600 feet in 2 miles with a surprising ease. Maybe I am getting more power out of my pedal stroke? I did a lot of ascending and descending today, so i am not sure if i can really comment on the hands/reach department, but i didn't notice much improvement. it just feels a tad far, or maybe theres still a lot of weight on them. Will report back after going on a flatter ride with a more concrete response. I am definitely surprised by the climb though, it could be that I have been riding more too, or maybe a combo of everything.

I get more climbing power with my butt back, too.

I found that when I went back to riding a road bike that I had to raise the bars a little and then work myself down as my muscle strength increased... by virtue of their design, a road bike put more weight on your hands, wrists and arms.