Road Bike Racing - question about training hours if you are a cat 3 and up

Last year i was doing about 9-12 hrs at most on average per week a mix of training rides workouts and races. . This year i am starting to do 20 hrs per week half of which will be early a.m. dvd trainer workouts . Anyone ever upped there hours that much and if it is done crrectly and one is not overtraining what kind of results happened how was your power endurance etc compared to before.

I can't help, being a lowly cat4 and all.

Big grocery bills and burnout...are two distinct possibilities.

What are your goals?

I was a 4 last year, doing a training crit and one hard 60-90 minute ride a week, so seriously about 2-2.5 hours a week(new house, new baby, etc). Upped to a 3 this year and have been averaging 12h/week for the last few months. My power is up, and I feel much stronger on rides, but no real challenges yet. Most of my rides have been on the trainer as I am up at 0430 on work days watching DVD's or Spinervals, with other days at lunch when the baby sleeps. I feel like taking an axe to my trainer sometimes, but not to the point of overtraining or burnout yet.

Guys that I ride with and are Cat 3 here in Portland Oregon are doing 5 days a week noon rides 1.5 h long, longer rides on weekend or racing, plus some specific work here and there.
20 h a week seems like a part time job, hope you get some good money out of it.
Ciao
Paolo

As soon as race season starts the 20+ hr weeks are over. In order to properly recover from 3-race weekends and hard rides during the week I have to take more days easy and short. Most of time I'm doing 2-4 hrs/day during the week.
That said, going from doing 10-15 hrs a week in past winters to doing 15-25 has made a huge difference. To all those who say base miles are useless... you're flat out wrong unless you race nothing but crits and never plan to race higher than cat 3.

Can't really help you. I race Cat 3 on an average of 8 hours per week. I wish I could up that to about 12 hours per week. More than that and I think I would be overtraining.

Have fun.

I just want to build really big motor first and foremost , then i know bringing that to a race will be good. Last year i was a bit disciplined but not a whole lot, 1/2 of my road time was with team training rides and usually i only really "worked out " maybe 45 mins a week which was intervals. i guess i saw enough results after just that i knew i needed to really look at my training for this year and be more focused. i went from struggling in crits to having top 5 finishes several times.

Nothing wrong with putting in "pro" hours if you have the time and inclination. The hardest part is recovery, so allow for extra time horizontally and eat, eat, eat.

Cat 3 here. I tend to train a lot in Jan/Feb, race lots in March/April, then sort of taper, doing a mini peak around June/July. Crits. This year, due to being in the ranks of the unemployed, I've almost hit my 2007 hours in 2008 (i.e. in March 2008 I've ridden about as much as I rode in all of 2007). I hope this parlays into a decent race or two. My weeks now average about 7-9 hours. Longest this year was 22 hours, and pretty much any week that was 14 hours or over was followed by a lighter sub-10 hour week.

For the last few years I was doing 0-4 hours a week, except in Jan/Feb in my 'training camps'.

I have a bunch of helmet cams on YouTube under sprinterdellacasa, many of them from 2007. You can watch the race and see how I did in each one. To put things in perspective I'll list the hours I rode the week before each of the Bethel races (and helmet cams):

Ronde de Bethel: 1:50 riding (3 days), 3 hours sweeping the day before, and working the race. Got 9th and I was sick.
Ris Van Bethel: 1:30 riding (2 days), 8th, not sick.
Following week: 0 hours, no race
Bethel CDP Gold Race: 2:43 (3 days), sat up in sprint. At this race I decided to work for a different team so I was not racing for a place.
Criterium de Bethel: 1:00 (1 day), sat up in sprint, felt good
Following week: 0 hours
Following week: 0 hours, raced in the rain, finished in field.

So I trained, in 7 weeks, about 7 hours. Racing adds 5 hours to the total.

I'm pretty sure my schedule each year was similar. 2005 was probably a bit heavier since I won a bunch of field sprints. 2006 I won the state Cat 3 crit gold medal (ditto 2002), neither on many hours.

I am not you but I know I recover pretty quickly, I know my limits, and I don't think I would benefit from more than 12-15 hours a week once I'm in decent form. 5-7 hours maintains my form decently. I become irritable, grumpy, and tired if I try and push more, unless it's racing.

Problem with really good form is you end up using your form on training rides, not races. My best year ever I raced to train - 3 days racing per week, typically 4 races. I used my form at races and placed constantly. On non race days I did a huge sprint ride (2+ hours of sprints every 7 minutes, 100-200 riders) or the Gimbles ride (basically the sprint people doing a 35-40 mile ride). I treated them like races too and wasn't afraid of spending "racing currency" there.

hoping for much more consistent racing in 2008,
cdr

Right now I'm only putting in about 8-10 hours a week and that is enough to place well consistently in cat 4-5 races. My base though was 7-8 weeks of 15h building to 20h weeks. I just don't have the time to train like that anymore now that school's started and I'm working again. More hard days and no bullsh*t miles. Every hour on the bike is used constructively.

Cat 3, 35+, train 8 to 10 hrs/week. I do fine in all Cat 3, 35+ races, and 123 crits (and I dont have nearly the Ws that lots of BF posters do). I'm going to find out this sunday how I do in P123 road races, but I'm getting over illness and a few weeks of very hectic business travel, so it might not be the best sample.

If you've got the time to train 15, 20+ hrs./week, go for it and make sure you do it correctly with your mix of intensity and do prioritize recovery.

23 years old, been riding for ~2.5yrs now, Cat2.

I find that I get in my best shape when I race hard, both days of the weekend, and do a SLOW, EASY recovery ride of two hours the next day. I make sure I get a LOT of sleep. That right there is the biggest factor, for me. Sleep, sleep, sleep. As long as I get enough sleep, I can train as long as there is daylight after I get home from work.

If I'm getting 8hrs or more a night, I can do 20+ hrs and still rock the weekend. I've recently "discovered" SST training, which is showing me nice gains in overall fitness so far. It's bringing my weight down, AND keeping me moderately fresh. I can stack three hard days in a row if the first is SST, and follow that with FTP and VO2 boosting workouts the following days*.


*It should be noted that I am NOT racing right now, and my training schedule eases up for races, particularly big ones.

My first thought is that 20 hours is too much. When I was a cat 2, I rode 10-15 hours a week. Quality, not quantity. (I'm an old guy now trying to get back in shape)

What do expect to gain from 20 hours a week ?? What's the rest of your life like ?? If you have 24 hours a day of free time, and can be off your feet, then it might be ok. How long are your races ?? Do you really need that much mileage ?? You can burn out mentally as well as physically.

why a 2 hour recovery ride?

During base I was doing 17-20 hours per week of zone II-III. Right now I'm doing between 14-18 hours while racing. Thats good enough to be in the top third of cat 3 races and mid-to-back of the pack in collegiate A's (road races).

Yeah that sounds pretty much like what I was doing. Last year as a 4 I rode 10 hours or so per week. This winter I rode 17 or 18 hours a week consistently, lots of base mileage. Now that I am racing on a regular basis that number is down a bit, but still getting in plenty of hours. I really do need to focus more on quality over quantity and stop just randomly riding for hours for the hell of it and putting in junk miles. I'm doing okay at cat 3 and collegiate A with that level of training. Maybe a cat 2 upgrade in my future?

My first thought is that 20 hours is too much. When I was a cat 2, I rode 10-15 hours a week. Quality, not quantity. (I'm an old guy now trying to get back in shape)

What do expect to gain from 20 hours a week ?? What's the rest of your life like ?? If you have 24 hours a day of free time, and can be off your feet, then it might be ok. How long are your races ?? Do you really need that much mileage ?? You can burn out mentally as well as physically.

I have at least 6 100km crits, about that many 80km crits, 7 or 8 80+ mi RRs, a stage race, some weeknight track racing and maybe some XC/Marathon MTB racing coming up this summer.

The only way to prepare for long races is to put in the mileage. If you have years and years of miles in your legs, that's one thing, but with only two racing seasons under my belt, I just don't have that yet. And if I can do three hours of tempo instead of two, and come out the other side without breaking down, I'm certainly going to do those three hours. I've pushed 20hrs a week before and had no ill effects, and back then, I worked as a farm hand/"research assistant" on my feet at least 7 of my 8 working hours each day, out in soybean fields, under the sun.

In terms of what I do for a living...well, everything I do is computer based. I sit at a desk all day long, with my feet elevated and legs parallel to the ground, doing CAD/database/data management work. At work the most heavily taxed muscles I have are those that control my right index finger.

If you glean anything from this thread, it should be that nothing that works for someone else is guaranteed to work for you. We have cat 2's doing 10 hrs, cat 4's doing 20, 3's doing 15 and everything in between. You need to find out what works for you, how well you can recover from hard efforts, how much work you can put in before your body or brain gives. Trial and error are your friend. Make the best guesses you can based on what you know about yourself already, try to minimize the errors, and just go for it.

Last year I rode an avg of 12 hours/week from September through February as a cat 3 ('06 into '07). That includes races. No real plan other than ride as long as I could given the free time I had. Ended up with a lot of mindless zone 2/3 rides thinking time on the bike was better than not. Top 5 in local races was about it.

Got some help with structure this year and avg 11 hours/week from September through February ('07 into "08). The riding is much more focused and did interval training for the first time coming into race season. With the intensity came the need to make sure I recovered to be able to build on previous days and weeks of training. Decided to upgrade to a 2 based on solid results this year.

If you can ride the increase in hours and still recover, stay focused, you'll be an animal. If your body can't handle the increase you'll probably know it in a couple months. I realize you are looking for guys who increased the hours, but just don't forget about quality and recovery.

+1 what ZeCanon said

I did 6 28+ hour weeks with one rest week in the middle this winter (cat. 3, should upgrade). It brought me , so far as I can tell, a huge improvement in power at all levels over 1 min.

Last season (when I got all the points to get to 3 and, if I sacked up, 2) I averaged 13 hrs/week before the race season.

When I'm racing, I do a slightly higher volume than most. I've just found high volume works for me. But it's still only about 10-11 hrs/week if I am serious about the racing.

I'll let you know in a couple of months. Last week, I put in 20 hours on the bike. This week will be 22.5, and then 25 hours.

The first week seems to have brought some measure of added endurance. I did a century yesterday, felt strong throughout. Put in 2.5 hours today, with some hard climbing, and felt great.

Spring Break, oh yeah :D

Cat 3, almost enough points to be a 2, 6-8 hours a week if I'm lucky.

I clearly don't ride enough

Most of the CAT 3, 2, and 1 guys in this area train between 10 and 16 hours a week. Thats all you need

I'm on the bike between 9-12 hours a week depending on the length of Saturday's ride and tempo work. There, I said it. I'm a 4 not a 3.

Big grocery bills and burnout...are two distinct possibilities.

What are your goals?

this is true. this is very, very true.

I'm on the bike between 9-12 hours a week depending on the length of Saturday's ride and tempo work. There, I said it. I'm a 4 not a 3.

from the sounds of your results, that'll change soon enough.

you're erratic mood swings, well that's something different.

from the sounds of your results, that'll change soon enough.

you're erratic mood swings, well that's something different.

Remember Dr. Bruce Banner? "You're making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

Of course my angry doesn't end with me turning green and shredding my pants. It usually ends with me apologizing and crying to my wife about the meanies on the internets.

Remember Dr. Bruce Banner? "You're making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

Of course my angry doesn't end with me turning green and shredding my pants. It usually ends with me apologizing and crying to my wife about the meanies on the internets.

nope, you look more like Dr. Xavier. :D

nope, you look more like Dr. Xavier. :D

I'll take that.

BTW. 'preciate the sort of compliment on the results and catting up. I have 3 races early next month. If I place solid, I'm sending in a resume. Whether it ups me or not.

If your not racing 100+ mile road races then I think 20 hours or more is way overkill for racing. With that being said I have do many 20+ hour weeks cause its fun to ride my bicycle. This season I am trying a different approach of ride less and recover more. I'm trying to stay around 12 hours a week.

If your not racing 100+ mile road races then I think 20 hours or more is way overkill for racing. With that being said I have do many 20+ hour weeks cause its fun to ride my bicycle. This season I am trying a different approach of ride less and recover more. I'm trying to stay around 12 hours a week.

yep.

back when i was really serious about racing, and busy earning my points to upgrade to cat 2, i was easily riding 25 hours a week.

i used to do sprint training, on occasion, with mike mccarthy (former world champ in pursuit, suburau montgomery/saturn rider). i mentioned how many hours i was riding, and he gave me the ol' WTF look, followed with a spiel about how i was riding way too much.

i ignored his advice. turned out he was right. i ended the season with my upgrade points, but i was so burnt out, i took a 4 year break from the bike.

yep.

back when i was really serious about racing, and busy earning my points to upgrade to cat 2, i was easily riding 25 hours a week.

i used to do sprint training, on occasion, with mike mccarthy (former world champ in pursuit, suburau montgomery/saturn rider). i mentioned how many hours i was riding, and he gave me the ol' WTF look, followed with a spiel about how i was riding way too much.

i ignored his advice. turned out he was right. i ended the season with my upgrade points, but i was so burnt out, i took a 4 year break from the bike.

Same here. I got to Cat 3 so fast, riding 300-400 miles/week, the season ended, then I just tanked and stopped training. I bled heavily as Cat 3 pack fodder for a couple seasons, and my heart was never in it. I lost the will to suffer, and gave up racing for 11 years or so (still did one or two races/year just for kicks as a 5).

I got back in great shape last year on 6 hrs/week (75-100 miles), and this year I've gone up to 8 hrs/week without losing any motivation (new commute has helped with this). It looks like I'm at 150-200 miles/week now. Best shape of my life.

Same here. I got to Cat 3 so fast, riding 300-400 miles/week, the season ended, then I just tanked and stopped training. I bled heavily as Cat 3 pack fodder for a couple seasons, and my heart was never in it. I lost the will to suffer, and gave up racing for 11 years or so (still did one or two races/year just for kicks as a 5).

I got back in great shape last year on 6 hrs/week (75-100 miles), and this year I've gone up to 8 hrs/week without losing any motivation (new commute has helped with this). It looks like I'm at 150-200 miles/week now. Best shape of my life.

Eight hours gets you 150-200 miles? I have to believe that you are over 8 hrs some weeks (or under 200 miles most weeks).

Eight hours gets you 150-200 miles? I have to believe that you are over 8 hrs some weeks (or under 200 miles most weeks).

WR - you got some fuzzy math going on with those weekly mileages. If 6 hrs. got you 75 - 100 mi/week, and 8 hrs. gets you 150 - 200 mi/week, you're covering 75 to 100 miles in those 2 extra hours. I guess you really are in the best shape of your life!!!:D

Yep, I messed up the numbers :o

I'm actually riding closer to 10 hours/week :eek: The commute time sneaks up on you.

There is a change to average speed though since I eliminated most of my sprints and 1m intervals and traded up to SST (which is much higher average speed). Then I added hours, which are also SST.

Here are some recent weeks (obviously this week isn't done yet).


Ending Duration Distance Weight HR TSS kJ 1'w 5'w 20'w 60'w min/mi min/mi min/mi min/mi
3/30/2008 6:26:33 117.67 178.0 123 424 4953 729 376 345 298 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
3/23/2008 9:02:28 155.02 178.0 135 617 6854 644 454 325 268 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
3/16/2008 10:30:33 185.68 178.0 101 704 7632 711 405 303 257 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
3/9/2008 7:04:36 119.42 178.0 143 441 5368 575 369 343 228 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
3/2/2008 10:12:29 176.08 178.0 140 712 7466 696 436 295 269 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
2/24/2008 10:01:55 176.96 178.0 149 617 6871 600 415 275 231 0:00 0:00

Yep, I messed up the numbers :o

I'm actually riding closer to 10 hours/week :eek: The commute time sneaks up on you.

There is a change to average speed though since I eliminated most of my sprints and 1m intervals and traded up to SST (which is much higher average speed). Then I added hours, which are also SST.

Here are some recent weeks (obviously this week isn't done yet).


Ending Duration Distance Weight HR TSS kJ 1'w 5'w 20'w 60'w min/mi min/mi min/mi min/mi
3/30/2008 6:26:33 117.67 178.0 123 424 4953 729 376 345 298 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
3/23/2008 9:02:28 155.02 178.0 135 617 6854 644 454 325 268 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
3/16/2008 10:30:33 185.68 178.0 101 704 7632 711 405 303 257 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
3/9/2008 7:04:36 119.42 178.0 143 441 5368 575 369 343 228 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
3/2/2008 10:12:29 176.08 178.0 140 712 7466 696 436 295 269 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00
2/24/2008 10:01:55 176.96 178.0 149 617 6871 600 415 275 231 0:00 0:00


How long have you been recycling your weigh-in? ;)

and not wearing a hrm on some weeks.

:D

It's rarely anything BUT 178. I weigh myself every two or three days. If it's 179 or so, I end up taking a big dump before breakfast anyway. <shrug>

I've had some days at 176, but I don't change it in that direction either. If I ever get three or four weigh ins in either direction, I'll change it.

Oh, and lately, the HRMs are all just from riding past people wearing them :)

I have been "forgetting" my HR strap at home for the last month.

Man, you guys make me feel like I just pulled my pants down. "Dude, you need to check your ruler." :roflmao:

Man, you guys make me feel like I just pulled my pants down. "Dude, you need to check your ruler." :roflmao:

Apparently centimeters and inches aren't the same. Thats what they said at that "acting" job anyway.

Man, you guys make me feel like I just pulled my pants down. "Dude, you need to check your ruler." :roflmao:

They won't ask you to check your ruler. They just point and laugh.

Good lord, I'm just a Cat 5 and only have ridden 83 hours this year (1,450 miles). I've only started doing intervals in the last couple weeks. Last week I did a little over 12 hours worth of volume at moderate to high intensity, 207 miles total. I'm only planning on racing 4-5 times this year though. I wish I could get faster AND ride a bit less... :lol:

Maybe one day... but I've only been riding for 2-1/2 years and I'm an old fart by most peoples standards.. heh

Thanks for the info. last year i was doing as i said 9-11 hrs a week i got strong my sesaon end results showed me that and comments people gave me showed me that power my sprints etc. so i guess when i started doing intervals it helped a lot in the crits. all i know is i am just tring to take what i did last season maiximize the use of my ride times when alone so its all about development.
especially being able to get the hrs in i need to cat up and not burnout and keep the balance in life good so it dosent mess up family time with the wife . so thats why i use the trainer several days a week to be like in between ealry morning workouts etc so it will all add up and i can specialize 2 of my real road time days into a climbing day and interval sessions.

I arrived at cycling from a background in swimming....so had a different perspective on amount of training.

As a swimmer, the summer would mean a 3 hour workout in the AM, 45 minutes in the gym 3 x/week and then 2 hours in the evening back in the pool....usually only one workout on Saturday and Sunday, but looking at a total of 30-35 hours per week.

I got into cycling because I wanted to do triathlons....endurance was pretty good from all that swimming...and adapted my swimming training to the cycling and running. Ultimately raced pro (not that successfully) for a few years....training schedule was 350-400miles on the bike per week (call it an average of 20mph, so 17-20 hours) 50-70 miles of running (average 6 min miles, so 8-12 hours of running) and I cut back to about 7 hours of swimming per week. Total was still at about 30-35 hours of training...and about 15 hours of eating.

If my AM resting pulse was over 42 then I knew I needed to take a few easy days....

I'm just trying to get back into cycling after a many-year lay off, and have commitments didn't exist back in the day, so this won't work. I also think coming from a hardcore swimming background help guard me against either physical or mental burnout.....I also lived with a couple of fellow pro triathletes who were training similarly, which made it all fun.

Training more is certainly possible, but depends on the background, and needs careful attention to possible overtraining (resting HR worked for me) and burnout...don't do it because you have to, but becuase it's fun.

I got into cycling because I wanted to do triathlons....endurance was pretty good from all that swimming...and adapted my swimming training to the cycling and running. Ultimately raced pro (not that successfully) for a few years....training schedule was 350-400miles on the bike per week (call it an average of 20mph, so 17-20 hours) 50-70 miles of running (average 6 min miles, so 8-12 hours of running) and I cut back to about 7 hours of swimming per week. Total was still at about 30-35 hours of training...and about 15 hours of eating.




Ahhh, the Dave Scott training schema. If you are awake, you must be training and/or eating, otherwise, go back to sleep until you are ready to train and/or eat.

A few points:

Recovery and age. I'm 44 now (that's 45 in Chinese :eek:) and I have noticed that I need longer recovery rides, times. 1 hour just won't cut it. I need 2. I also need to check my RHR more often in the morning to make sure I have recovered.

If not racing that weekend I'll do a 15-20 hr week (usually closer to 15). I have been racing for 20+ years and my body just wants the mileage. I usually do 4-5 hours on Saturday (with intensity) and 5-6 hours on Sunday with a focus on elevation gain.

Monday is 2 hours recovery, Tuesday sprints, Wednesday training race, Thursday is a flex day-sprints or something else specific to an upcoming event. Friday is 2 hours recovery.

That's 2 blocks/week of 8-10 hours and 9-11 hours for a total of 17-21 hours. There are days when I change it up or cut a ride short for real life so things don't always go as planned. Also, there is a bit of time at the beginning and end of the longer rides that is pretty much junk (riding to meet the ride) so I really don't count it as training. It's just time to eat a little more until I get to the meeting point.

In the end it results in about 15-20 hours of time where I am in the desired zone doing work that is worthwhile.

Last 2 things.

Sleep. You body will only recover WHILE YOU SLEEP. The breaking down of damaged tissue and the building of new muscle tissue is dependent on a series of hormones that are only released about 20 minutes after you fall asleep. So sleep is your friend.

Food. No matter what your training schedule, you need enough (but not too much) fuel for the job. This one is tricky and you'll need to experiment with what foods, how much, and when you need to eat them, to train.

Good luck.

Thanks for the info. last year i was doing as i said 9-11 hrs a week i got strong my sesaon end results showed me that and comments people gave me showed me that power my sprints etc. so i guess when i started doing intervals it helped a lot in the crits. all i know is i am just tring to take what i did last season maiximize the use of my ride times when alone so its all about development.
especially being able to get the hrs in i need to cat up and not burnout and keep the balance in life good so it dosent mess up family time with the wife . so thats why i use the trainer several days a week to be like in between ealry morning workouts etc so it will all add up and i can specialize 2 of my real road time days into a climbing day and interval sessions.

So, based on all the great replies, did you adjust your plan, or keep it as-is ??