Commuting - two-leg kickstands?

I'm considering a two-legged kickstand for my 2005 Trek 520. Does anyone have experience with this Pletscher (http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=KI5000) or anything similar? Any recommendations for good-quality alternative implementations? This (http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=KI1001) is what I'm planning to upgrade from, assuming that something better can be identified.

Thanx!

[Incidentally, I'm fully aware that many folks consider a kickstand to be completely useless. So there's really no need to bother with the usual "just lay your bike on the ground; lean it against a wall/fence/tree/etc." subthread.]

I use one of these an love it for commuting and when I'm pulling my Burley Nomad. Makes loading easy. Very sturdy. Not cheap. Needs to be cut to length for you bike.

http://biketrailershop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=48&products_id=53

I have the Pletscher. I like it better than my previous $5 stand, but it has drawbacks. It doesn't stand up well unless it is loaded evenly. If you put your load on rear panniers, you must have equal weight on both sides or the bike will tip. Like the other poster said it works great when loading a trailer. I imagine it would be great for a front-center basket too. If you load your bike with the weight centered it can't be beat. I weigh 215 and I can sit on my bike on the stand no-prob.

I have an ESGE and it has all the advantages and drawbacks the previous poster listed. I weigh 160# and I definitely can't sit on mine - it would fold up like a wet noodle or the mount would break.

I've been kind of looking for the same thing, so I will be paying attention to this thread. My bent Agio needs a double stand with the faring, double mirrors and bar-end shifters and all.

Steven

The ESGE and the Pletscher are one and the same. Good stand.
Hebie also makes one available in the US, it's a little chunkier looking.
The Pletscher can be trimmed to size, the Hebie cannot.

[Incidentally, I'm fully aware that many folks consider a kickstand to be completely useless. So there's really no need to bother with the usual "just lay your bike on the ground; lean it against a wall/fence/tree/etc." subthread.]

I definitely will be watching this thread. Those that think kickstands are a waste don't load their panniers like I do and don't park where I do. I NEED a kickstand - and I have a 'bent.

I've had double leg kickstands and they tend to get loose and interfere with your pedaling and the rear wheel. I can't know if this one is better but it doesn't look it. I use a rear stand that attaches to the chain stay and the seat stay (hope I got the anatomy right). Something like this one.

There great. A little heavier than single stands but being able to stand the bike up while one of the wheels is removed for flat repair is nice. As others have said there great for trailers as well. Of course non touring cyclists will not under-stand them (pun intended)!;)

Has anyone used the click stand (http://www.click-stand.com/)?

Hebie bipod (http://www.hebie.de/html/en/detail_staender.php?id=0605_NL_E1) looks *great*. Google not showing me any US dealers though.

I am using greenfield rear triangle stand which works well except on one particular slope where I often find myself putting 3 yr old into trailer.

I have a Pletscher on my LHT. I've been really happy with it - but be forewarned that you'll put some scratches in the paint on your chainstays when you install it. And rubber won't work to protect the paint - the stand will cut right through it if you torque it down properly. And if you try to go light with the torque, it will rattle around on your chainstays and do some real damage to the paint. I don't really care about a few scratches (that you can't even see with the kickstand installed) so it's a non-issue for me.

I just wish that there was an easy way to clean the pivot mechanism on the Plescher. Mine has picked up a lot of sand and grit from winter, and there really isn't any way to dissassemble it and clean it. I think I'm going to drill out the rivet that holds it together soon and pull it apart, and replace the rivet with a smooth, hitch-style bolt with cotter pin.

Has anyone used the click stand (http://www.click-stand.com/)?

I use one with my Salsa La Raza. I keep it in my handlebar bag. It works well, however you have to keep a rubber band on your handlebar so you can lock your front wheel. If you don't lock it, your bike will roll either forward or backward and fall over.

I've considered this one for when I finally upgrade to a new bike.

http://www.bikefront.com/products/stands/705/

Hebie bipod (http://www.hebie.de/html/en/detail_staender.php?id=0605_NL_E1) looks *great*. Google not showing me any US dealers though.
http://www.bikefront.com/products/stands/705_Bipod_(dual_leg)_kickstand

I had a ESGE on the Safari,and thought it was the ish. Until the spring broke and it locked up one morning when I was about to leave for work. Ticked me off as I had only had it on the bike for like 8-9 months. I've since ordered one of those Hebie stands which I should be picking up tonight.

Was pretty happy up until then,but also had the prob of the bike wanting to flop if I loaded the panniers heavy on one side at a time.

The ESGE and the Pletscher are one and the same. Good stand.
Hebie also makes one available in the US, it's a little chunkier looking.
The Pletscher can be trimmed to size, the Hebie cannot.

I've been afraid to trim mine, although it's a bit long. I'm afraid it will become even more unstable from trimming it because the legs will be slightly closer together. Anyone have experience trimming the pletcher?

I've been afraid to trim mine, although it's a bit long. I'm afraid it will become even more unstable from trimming it because the legs will be slightly closer together. Anyone have experience trimming the pletcher?

I trimmed mine so that the bike sits _almost_ on both wheels- if the front's loaded it'll sit front & stand, if rear loaded rear wheel & stand. I park mainly on asphalt & concrete- if on dirt the stand is just long enough to ram down into the ground a little bit...

I don't really have problems when loading one pannier and then the other unless there's more than 20# or so a side (the kid seat comes off & is replaced with panniers)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/2341249629_8b6954ba3b_m.jpg

There's a line on the stand which, if you trim it there, gives a couple of inches ground clearance with 26" wheels.

If anything the stand is more stable after trimming. Having the weight of a load way up in the air is what makes it unstable.

I'd be careful trimming the stand for use with 700c, not that you shouldn't. Just make sure how much clearance you will end up with.


I've been afraid to trim mine, although it's a bit long. I'm afraid it will become even more unstable from trimming it because the legs will be slightly closer together. Anyone have experience trimming the pletcher?

I've been afraid to trim mine, although it's a bit long. I'm afraid it will become even more unstable from trimming it because the legs will be slightly closer together. Anyone have experience trimming the pletcher?
I trimmed mine, but unfortunately, I trimmed a bit too much--I will explain. The tires I had on the bike at the time were smaller (from the tread to the rim distance) than the ones I have now, so the kickstand does not elevate one of the wheels off the ground. To correct the problem, I have been using a rubber chair tip (http://www.stopfloorscratching.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GT701P%2DG) on one leg to even it out.

So, be careful trimming the legs!

Earlier I posted that it was impossible to clean the pivot mechanism of the ESGE stand...

Well, today I tried to drill out the rivet to disassemble and clean it - and there is no way that's coming out without a grinder. The rivet is made of tool steel and drill bits don't do anything to it.

After the failed drilling attempt, I decided to try cleaning it out by flushing it with solvent. I used almost a whole can of generic WD-40 from Wal Mart to hose down the mechanism. It washed all the grit, sand, and powdered aluminum out, and now the stand works like new. Just thought I'd share...

I also use the Pletscher/ESGE/SKS/whatever stand. I got it because I got tired of my bike tipping over whenever I'd start to load beer in the panniers. So far, it works great! It did get a bit tippy one time when I loaded some heavy stuff (maybe it was a 12 pack of bottles) on one side and nothing in the other, but ever since then I've paid attention and it's been fine. I probably ought to trim mine since the front wheel (the nexus 8 makes the bike balance to the rear constantly) is probably about 3-4 inches off the ground. The downside of this is that the front wheel will swing around and when it stops, that can throw the bike off balance.

As far as sand a grit, I noticed the mechanism getting a bit stuff, so I shot some dry lube in there. It was fine for a while. The next time I used a bristle brush to clean it out, then WD40, then this lube I picked up at the local indy auto parts store called "Fluid Film." That worked even better than the dry lube.

The pletscher kick stand seems to be typical German mechanical engineering. Well made, should last a lifetime or two and just works like a hose.

I've decided to check with my LBS either today or tomorrow, and see if they can order the Pletscher for me. My only real concern at this point is with trimming the beastie, since it will require some care to ensure that it's sized correctly (not to mention level), but that should be manageable. Heck... they'll probably be willing to take care of this for me. :)

Thanx to everyone for your assistance!

Hebie bipod (http://www.hebie.de/html/en/detail_staender.php?id=0605_NL_E1) looks *great*.

It is great. I have one 'cause I run a Bob Yak on the back, and the Hebie holds everything up flawlessly. :D

I've decided to check with my LBS either today or tomorrow, and see if they can order the Pletscher for me. My only real concern at this point is with trimming the beastie, since it will require some care to ensure that it's sized correctly (not to mention level), but that should be manageable. Heck... they'll probably be willing to take care of this for me. :)

Thanx to everyone for your assistance!

It's been ordered, and my LBS offered to trim it for me. Needless to say, I accepted... but I've got a pretty good LBS. :D

Thanx again!

[Incidentally, I'm fully aware that many folks consider a kickstand to be completely useless. So there's really no need to bother with the usual "just lay your bike on the ground; lean it against a wall/fence/tree/etc." subthread.]
I love my kickstand. Just try to take it from me. You'll draw back a nub.

:p

Hebie

Pros:
sturdy
stable
serves as a universal workstand
corrosion resistant

Cons:
heavy
after a long time corrodes as well



Pletscher

Pros:
light
folds away from the drivetrain

Cons:
wobbly
thread strips quickly
corrodes
gets in the way of pedals when opened
more likely to damage floor when the bike is brought inside
unresponsive customer service


Hebie should be the choice unless weight were a serious factor as in the case of a folder. Given that the bike may lean onto the rear wheel, depending on weight distribution, it is advisable to get a spring manufactured by Hebie, to prevent the front wheel from flipping sideways when the bike is raised.

In Germany, generic copies of Hebie bipod are available for about half the price. In contrast to Hebie, these are likely not zincked.

(Plescher) Cons:
wobbly
thread strips quickly
corrodes
gets in the way of pedals when opened
more likely to damage floor when the bike is brought inside
unresponsive customer service

I have a Plescher.

I wouldn't consider it light.

It definitely doesn't get in the way of the pedals when open, I can spin the rear wheel with the weight on the front tire but this may depend on the bike. My frame is a Surly XC 54.

It is very sturdy, definitely isn't wobbly, but by design a two-legger can't have all of the weight on one side.

The finish on mine looks great after about 3000 miles (no corrosion yet, I've oiled it once or twice). It's pretty new still so I can't give a long term review of the finish.

It comes with plastic tips so it doesn't damage the floor. I don't know what "thread strips quickly" means, but the bolt that came with mine is holding up.

I can't speak to customer service, never needed it.

Do they make more than one two-legger? It sounds like your review is for a different product than I have.

I love my kickstand. Just try to take it from me. You'll draw back a nub.

:p

+1

I have a Plescher.


Mine is ESGE/PleTscher so maybe it is indeed a different one. :)



I wouldn't consider it light.


An alu bipod is light compared to a steel bipod such as Hebie.



It definitely doesn't get in the way of the pedals when open, I can spin the rear wheel with the weight onthe front tire but this may depend on the bike. My frame is a Surly XC 54.


This should depend on spindle and crankarm length. I have the longest spindle you can get, 133mm, usually used for tandems, and have some of the shorter crankarms you can get, 155mm, and I cannot spin with Pletscher open.



It is very sturdy, definitely isn't wobbly, but by design a two-legger can't have all of the weight on one side.


Unless the bike is carefully positioned over an uneven ground, my bike will fall one or another under significant load with Esge. Far larger loads without much positioning can be placed over Hebie. For someone with only one-legged prior stand experience, Esge may indeed seem like a lot of progress. Technically, you cannot make an alu cast stand anywhere close in sturdiness to a steel stand.



The finish on mine looks great after about 3000 miles (no corrosion yet, I've oiled it once or twice). It's pretty new still so I can't give a long term review of the finish.


If there are no factors causing corrosion it is not likely to occur. I could not open the stand after 2 months of fall/winter riding. After 3 months, the steel screw ceased to turn inside the alloy.



It comes with plastic tips so it doesn't damage the floor. I don't know what "thread strips quickly" means, but the bolt that came with mine is holding up.


The plastic leg covers get lost in no time. After few months of using the stand with a loaded bike, the stand had to be rethreaded.



I can't speak to customer service, never needed it.


I tried and could not get a response.



Do they make more than one two-legger? It sounds like your review is for a different product than I have.

To my knowledge, they make only one. I've got 3 in my household with 2 that have been mounted. Following my disappointing experiences with Esge, I discovered that the German store where I've got my first Esge started on their own advising against Esge and recommending Hebie instead. Aside from weight, Hebie's stands are just well superior.

Any of you Hebie fans have pictures of the stand mounted on a bike in the up and down positions? I`ve never seen one before and all the links I see here show it off the bike. I can`t fathom how it folds up.

I have the Pletscher. I like it better than my previous $5 stand, but it has drawbacks. It doesn't stand up well unless it is loaded evenly. If you put your load on rear panniers, you must have equal weight on both sides or the bike will tip. Like the other poster said it works great when loading a trailer. I imagine it would be great for a front-center basket too. If you load your bike with the weight centered it can't be beat. I weigh 215 and I can sit on my bike on the stand no-prob.

AGREED! I had a two-legged kick-stand, but eventually removed it. Every time I loaded something on the rear carriers, the bike would see-saw backwards and tip. Very frustrating. If you are a load carrier, I suggest you consider a horseshoe shaped kickstand that mounts to the rear axle like this:

Any of you Hebie fans have pictures of the stand mounted on a bike in the up and down positions? I`ve never seen one before and all the links I see here show it off the bike. I can`t fathom how it folds up.

It is the same rig as used on motorcylcles. I can imagine that a scaled-down version is probably offered on mopeds as well.

It's been ordered, and my LBS offered to trim it for me. Needless to say, I accepted... but I've got a pretty good LBS. :D

Thanx again!

The beastie was installed about two week ago, but I've been away on a business trip and didn't have a chance to check it out until last weekend. My initial impression is rather favorable... it seems quite sturdy (compared to it's predecessor), and isn't overly obtrusive when retracted.

My LBS sized it to lift the rear wheel by approximately two inches, which is a bit higher than I was expecting but doesn't seem to be unreasonable. I'll probably leave it as-is for a month or so, and then decide whether or not to trim off a bit more material. Any thoughts on how to determine the optimal sizing, or is this mainly a matter of preference (assuming sufficient clearance to accommodate future tires, etc.)?

Does someone have a link the the horseshoe type kickstand? I would like to get a hold of one. I see several on old bikes, but never any new versions.

Any homebrew versions? These are too pricey.

I'm just curious: what problems have some of you had with ordinary, left-side kickstands?

I've got one of the standard, $10, aluminum stands on my LHT. It works beautifully. I load the bike heavily with groceries all the time. I attach my Nomad trailer with a heavy load. The bike does not tip. It's never in danger of falling over.

I took some care in cutting the stand. It's pretty much exactly the right length for my needs. But even this task was not difficult or time-consuming.

I don't doubt you all have your reasons. The two-pronged stands are useful, especially for doing drive train maintenance.

If some of the readers are wondering, though, you might consider the ordinary, left-side kind of stand. It might do all the work you need.

I agree, in any case, that any kickstand is much more useful than none. Loading a bike with heavy items is much more convenient. My sense is that the lean-it-against-a-tree crowd just makes different uses of their bikes than I do.

Does someone have a link the the horseshoe type kickstand? I would like to get a hold of one. I see several on old bikes, but never any new versions.

These are common in Japan. In my memory, you must have a frame that is made in expectation that such a kickstand would be fitted. Those kickstands are very heavy, but then Hebie is heavy too. My anticipation is that a kickstand under the bottom bracket is better suited for different loads that you might put on a bicycle. Also the center mounted kickstand serves better as a universal workstand as you may lift either the front or rear wheel.

Yes I have the EASE two legged stand.

all in all I have to say I Love it :D. I have it mounted on my cross check commute /distance bike.

this stand has solved a bunch of problems for me with very few drawbacks.

I ride a MUP or a busy 4 lane county road No place to lean a bike against the MUP has trees but many yards away from pavement often down a embankment. its great if I need anything out of my carradice I just get off the bike and it stands on its own thus why it also makes a great repair stand you can work on the front or the back.

at work I have the luxury of parking the bike inside but when I didnt have the stand I had to use one of the warhouse walls (always in someones way) with the 2 legged stand its parked standing up under a set of stairs thats under a mezanine (no wall) never in anyones way.

same when Im home it stands in the garage on its own and doesnt take any of my wall space which houses tools and all the other junk one needs to get at (I was always moving the bike to get at somthing else)

its great when I leave the house I just stand it up in my driveway while I close the gate.

when I do event rides while everyone is looking for a wall (many times to no avail with big events) to park their bikes I just stand mine on a sidewalk parking lot ...

the stand does not impair my peddaling at all

down side

1)a bit heavy (but so am I) its not a big issue with all the crap I carry tools ,water, metal fenders ,lock ...

2) yes it can play havoc with the paint on the stays but bikes will get scratched !!!(note I now use the spriral plastic that you loop around wire , I wrap the stays with it , works good but I did it after I tried rubber . you can also use heavier rubber/industial coveyor belt...

3) my stand (when deployed) does get in the way of the pedal when turning the pedal by hand (doing maintenace) I took a dremel tool and cut a groove where the crank hits problem gone

4) installation can be tricky my FD cable was right in the way so I had to drill a hole in the stand for FD cable, my new frame when it arrives will have top routed shifting , cable problem gone.

5) you will be scourned By the masses for the uncoolness/geekdom that goes with kickstands in general.

so in a nutshell the 2 legged EASE IS the NUTS!!!

"John"

I thought that I would revive this one.

I am looking for a two leg kickstand. A little investigation has turned up the Esge Plescher and 3 versions of the Hebie Bipod from European sources. The Esge Plescher is available from multiple American sources including QBP. It is now coming stock on some Gary Fisher bikes and is also listed on the Civia Loring.

Yuba Mundo lists the steel Hebie. I just got off of the phone and Wallbike has some of the lighter aluminum/plastic Hebie stands available. Not listed on their web site. Supposed to be emailing me more information.

It's been ordered, and my LBS offered to trim it for me. Needless to say, I accepted... but I've got a pretty good LBS. :D

Thanx again!

Landstander - I have one of these, and am very happy with it. Relatively stable, even when the bike has one heavy pannier on it.

Not that hard to trim.

I have a two-legged touring kickstand I don't need; it doesn't fit on my bottom bracket. PM me if you want to do a swap!

Any of you Hebie fans have pictures of the stand mounted on a bike in the up and down positions? I`ve never seen one before and all the links I see here show it off the bike. I can`t fathom how it folds up.

I had this one...
http://www.bikeworldusa.com/product_info.php/cPath/124_25_49/products_id/927

And in my experience, I found that in the folded up position, it hung far too low. Dropping off curbs it would get hung up, jumping curbs same problem. It would hang up on speed bumps etc. It was on a 26" bike.

My Pletscher (after trimming the leg to appropriate length) hangs no lower (in the folded up position), than a typical single leg kickstand. I will most likely outfit any "future" utility bikes with a Pletscher, it works for me! :thumb:

I had this one...
http://www.bikeworldusa.com/product_info.php/cPath/124_25_49/products_id/927

And in my experience, I found that in the folded up position, it hung far too low. Dropping off curbs it would get hung up, jumping curbs same problem. It would hang up on speed bumps etc. It was on a 26" bike.

My Pletscher (after trimming the leg to appropriate length) hangs no lower (in the folded up position), than a typical single leg kickstand. I will most likely outfit any "future" utility bikes with a Pletscher, it works for me! :thumb:

The Hebie looks similar to the one you linked to but w/o the visible side spring. Does look like it sits low but I do not ride over kerbs or similar items if at all possible not to. Wanted for my grocery hauling bike.

Just ordered a Hebie (steel, two-legged version) from SJS Cycles in the UK:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk

Should be the final tweak to my Monster Trucker:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3524/3850768786_12b20be7ca_b.jpg

There has been a recent significant entry into the two-legged kickstand market by

Humpert (http://www.humpert.com/en/bikeparts/marke/produktart/einsatzbereich/produkt/?marke=xact&produktart=11&einsatzbereich=21&produkt=102)

When this kickstand unfolds, it also unfolds sideways. With this, the kickstand can be more narrow transversally when riding and wider when standing. The footprint ends up being slightly wider than that of Hebie. Whether this actually translates into a greater stability I do not know. However, the negative aspect of this kickstand is that it interferes with the pedals when unfolded, thus preventing this kickstand from operating as a workstand, which is a great benefit of Hebie.

Humpert is made out of rather solid chunks of alu. This brings the negative aspect such as in Esge, that the thread through which the stand attaches to the bike might strip. Another issue might be that of the sideways unfolding joints in that they might introduce extra wobbliness, erasing the benefit of extra footprint. However, I have not really tested the latter, withdrawing after realizing that the kickstand could not be used as a workstand.

By the way, dwnptrl_777, what brand is the rack at your front? It certainly does not look cheap!

The German bike store classic-cycle.de sells them. They can also get you a Steco rear rack with a fold down stand.

There has been a recent significant entry into the two-legged kickstand market by

Humpert (http://www.humpert.com/en/bikeparts/marke/produktart/einsatzbereich/produkt/?marke=xact&produktart=11&einsatzbereich=21&produkt=102)

When this kickstand unfolds, it also unfolds sideways. With this, the kickstand can be more narrow transversally when riding and wider when standing. The footprint ends up being slightly wider than that of Hebie. Whether this actually translates into a greater stability I do not know. However, the negative aspect of this kickstand is that it interferes with the pedals when unfolded, thus preventing this kickstand from operating as a workstand, which is a great benefit of Hebie.

Humpert is made out of rather solid chunks of alu. This brings the negative aspect such as in Esge, that the thread through which the stand attaches to the bike might strip. Another issue might be that of the sideways unfolding joints in that they might introduce extra wobbliness, erasing the benefit of extra footprint. However, I have not really tested the latter, withdrawing after realizing that the kickstand could not be used as a workstand.

By the way, dwnptrl_777, what brand is the rack at your front? It certainly does not look cheap!

Thanks for the Humpert update. I had no idea, but appreciate your posting. Also, my front rack is from Surly. Same for the rear.

UPDATE: My Hebie is for sale right now in eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220525959059&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_500wt_1147

I love it. It's built like a tank. I cut some nice thick rubber pieces to fit between the plates. It installs easily. I even zip-tied a small piece of rubber around the right leg to protect the paint from chain slap. But (here comes the big but...), Surly put out that notice about folks crushing their chain stay with kickstands. I'm paranoid enough about damaging this frame before I take it cross-country in six months, so...maybe someone else can get some use out of this Hebie.

I know I'll regret selling this, but...oh well.

Auction ends in about a day, so...if you're interested see the link above.

I love it. It's built like a tank. I cut some nice thick rubber pieces to fit between the plates. It installs easily. I even zip-tied a small piece of rubber around the right leg to protect the paint from chain slap. But (here comes the big but...), Surly put out that notice about folks crushing their chain stay with kickstands. I'm paranoid enough about damaging this frame before I take it cross-country in six months, so...maybe someone else can get some use out of this Hebie.

I know I'll regret selling this, but...oh well.

The plastic plate by Hebie, that goes between the kickstand and chainstays and attaches to the chainstay bridge, is quite helpful in preventing both rotation of the kickstand and crushing of the chainstays. SJS have that plate in stock.