General Cycling Discussion - A question of endurance...

Hi everyone, it's me again. The amateur that hangs around here :)

Well, everything seems to be progressing very well. Despite being a full time student (with a full course load, first year Engineering!) I have been able to slip in a fair amount of training to get ready for the real deal this upcoming summer.

So the most recent thing for me is realizing what endurance really is... I'm not sure if I have a very good understanding of it so I thought I'd ask you guys:

The other day I got on the Kaiser stationary bike for about two hours. Well this stationary bike has no digital readings of any kind, but I just adore its construction because it resemebles road bikes a lot. So I have to trust the "feel" of it to see what level I'm at.

I keep the setting at a level that I'm sure I can keep up for at least thirty minutes at about 60-80 RPM. At this setting it very closely resemebles my usual up-hill route and that's exactly what I want. So I keep it up for 30 minutes, and go easy at it for 5 minutes, then 30 more minutes of the same, and 5 minutes easy and so on... for about 2 hours.

But strange things start to happen; in the first 30 minutes I sweat like crazy, but that's it. For the second round it feels like the intensity is just as the same but I just don't sweat. Could this because my body's temperature and rate of sweat evaporation has reached an equilibrium?? It just seems weird.

Also, For the first hour, when I thouch my mid thighs, at the power stroke I feel them contracting quite a bit. Is this a good or bad thing? For the first few minutes they do burn, but by the end of the 2 hours, they feel perfectly fine. In fact, I know that I could have easily kept this up for at least two more hours if it wasn't for the pile of assignments that still had to be done :/

And I was not huffing and puffing either at the end, nor through out. I know that I am pushing my legs to their max, and if I got over ambitious (as sometimes I do), I'd probably do some injury to myself, but then again I have no way of knowing if whether I'm pushing it too much or not enough.

So this brings me to my question. What should I take as a sign of endurance? Should I push myself as much as possible (disregarding the power output and the stress in my legs) untill I start huffing and keep that up to increase my indurance, or should I just keep going the way I am and be thankful that I'm not running out of breath??

This might seem like a very stupid question but unfortuantely I'm alone in my training. I do not know of any experienced cyclists to give me real training and I have to rely on my personal judgement.

Thank in advance for any suggestions you can give me.

Amir,

Two hours on a stationary bike? That's serious mental endurance!

I would have a hard time accurately judging endurance on a single speed stationary bike. Try to find one of the computerized resistance machines and follow a routine workout. The routine will simulate hills, flats, and rebound periods. This will be more relatable to a real bike situation. Do you have access to a trainer for your bike? These are great because any seat time on your frame is a learning experience and the gears can be used to regulate resistance.

One thing that would work on the stationary bike you've described is to work on cadence. Set the resistance to a level that will allow you to spin between 90 and 110 with as much resistance as can be handled. Look at your watch and count the revolutions in a six second period and multiply by ten. This is a range that your body will find very useful on a bike.

With your enthusiasm, it'll be hard not to succeed!

<<Two hours on a stationary bike? That's serious mental endurance! >>

:) It does make a look like an idiot and a freak in a gym full of "real men" pumpin' weights for two hours right in front of me, but if this is what it takes to maintain my performance until summer, then this is what I'll do. It's not so bad though, I actually do enjoy it.

<<Do you have access to a trainer for your bike? These are great because any seat time on your frame is a learning experience and the gears can be used to regulate resistance.>>

Perhaps I should invest in one? I'm putting aside quite a bit of money (well, quite a bit in the eyes of a student anyways) to get my road bike; so how much am I looking at for a decent trainer?

You can pick up a wind unit for as little as $75.00.

A mag for $100.00 to $200.00.

A fluid for around $200.00 to $350.00

Check all the online stores and you'll find something in your range.

One thing I feel I should have added to my first post is to not forget to warm up a bit before turning on the steam during a workout. Stretch well and spin at a slow to moderate rate for at least 10 to 15 minutes each.

After the work out, follow the strenuous part with at least 10 - 15 minutes of slow to moderate spin and stretch again if you can.

I know it sounds like a lot of time but your body will be the better for it. A warm and limber body will always outlast a cool and tight one.

Originally posted by Amir R. Pakdel

But strange things start to happen; in the first 30 minutes I sweat like crazy, but that's it. For the second round it feels like the intensity is just as the same but I just don't sweat. Could this because my body's temperature and rate of sweat evaporation has reached an equilibrium?? It just seems weird.

Also, For the first hour, when I thouch my mid thighs, at the power stroke I feel them contracting quite a bit. Is this a good or bad thing? For the first few minutes they do burn, but by the end of the 2 hours, they feel perfectly fine.

It's called warming up. When I go for a ride, I'm usually going better at 120km than I am at 20km for the same reason.

I was just wondering if you drank any water while you were riding, you may have been a little dehydrated.

You should also think about getting some winter training clothing. It's worth it to get outside whenever you can, trainer sessions can be intensly boring and I won't last a winter if I don't get out whenever I can.

Just to follow up on Greg's comment on cadence. Vary your workouts during the week to work on different things and include easy days. Hard workouts actually do minor damage to muscles. The real building process occurs on the easy days when the muscles repair themselve, becoming stronger. You should probably only do 3 hard days per week.

Set aside days for cadence building. Set the resistance so it almost feels like no resistance so you can easily pedal 90+ RPM, working up as you develop more leg speed. Focus on a nice smooth, round pedal stroke rather than a push push push pedal stroke. A round stroke is more efficient and pushing big gears can hurt your knees. I think of my upper legs as levers that I gently raise and let fall, keeping the lower legs almost passive, just letting my feet follow the pedals. Try to develop a feeling of letting your feet "float" in your shoes, neither pushing nor pulling. Obviously this is easier if you are using clipless pedals and shoes or at least clips and straps.

I am no racer and, though older, not much farther along in my cycling "career" as you are. I have just studied and tried to develop good technique.
Good luck!
Raymond

Originally posted by RainmanP
Just to follow up on Greg's comment on cadence. Vary your workouts during the week to work on different things and include easy days. Hard workouts actually do minor damage to muscles. The real building process occurs on the easy days when the muscles repair themselve, becoming stronger. You should probably only do 3 hard days per week.

Yes, I always do that. I never go on intense training sessions in consequent days. I discovered that if I give myself a recovery day in between, on the next session I can improve a little bit more than last time and build up in this manner. If there was no recovery day, then I could not improve on the next session since my legs would be tired from last day's and stress would just build up more, making it worse for the next sessions to come.

But I hear that pros go up to 6 hours a day... how is it that they don't build up fatigue?


Set the resistance so it almost feels like no resistance so you can easily pedal 90+ RPM, working up as you develop more leg speed. Focus on a nice smooth, round pedal stroke rather than a push push push pedal stroke. A round stroke is more efficient and pushing big gears can hurt your knees. I think of my upper legs as levers that I gently raise and let fall, keeping the lower legs almost passive, just letting my feet follow the pedals. Try to develop a feeling of letting your feet "float" in your shoes, neither pushing nor pulling. Obviously this is easier if you are using clipless pedals and shoes or at least clips and straps.

Hmmm, zero resistance? I'm not sure about that. Most have told me that zero resistance is a big no no. I can do 90 RPM for quite a while at mid gears, and it still feels "too relaxing". Besides I find it much harder to keep up high cadence at low resistance. Once I build up momentum at higher gears it's much easier to sustain it.

Pedal stroke is something I'm working on improving though. I focus on doing very round circles and minimizing any work done by my lower leg. I don't push down if that's what you mean by push push stroke. I keep the cycle rythym and round but the thighs HAVE TO to some pushing (in tangental direction).

I did not say zero resistance. I said so it almost feels like no resistance. This level will change as you get stronger. The point is to learn to spin fast. The resistance should just feel light enough that you can spin fast for extended periods without the resistance itself causing premature fatigue. You might be able to achieve 90 RPM right now in 52-13, but for how long? On the other hand you can probably spin that in 39-16 or so for an hour or more. That is the point.

The pros can do it 6 hours a day because they have conditioned their bodies over years of training to be able to tolerate that amount of work. You don't achieve that in 1,2, or 3 years.

Ah of course, my mistake. I thought you wrote zero resistance. I see your point, and understand it perfectly. However, is higher RPM as efficient for climbing as it is for flat? I know not to hammer my way up hills, but I don't like set it on the granny gear either, which makes it difficult to maintain RPMs higher than 70-80 (in my route anyways). Perhaps picking heavy hills is a wrong way to go at such early stages of training?


The pros can do it 6 hours a day because they have conditioned their bodies over years of training to be able to tolerate that amount of work. You don't achieve that in 1,2, or 3 years.

Certainly. Still a long long way for me to go. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I don't give up somewhere along the line. Dreams have a strange way of changing as time goes by.

Cadence Cadence CADENCE!!!

It's all about the cadence, if you want to climb well, keep your cadence as near to 90 as possible going up those hills and on the flats don't be afraid to put it up near 100. When you work out, don't be afraid to get it over 110 and if you want to sprint well...try doing intervals at 120-130.

All that will depend on your offseason conditioning, if you pedal slowly then, you will train your nerves to do just that in a race and when the tempo goes up on a break or what have you, your legs will respond sluggishly.

You can do 6 hours rides for training and I do advise trying one out. Make sure you have plenty of food and water and maybe plan a route where you can stop for snacks. You might be surprised at how well you can do if you prepare for it.

Is spinning faster more efficient for climbing? Ask Lance Armstrong. He spins a smaller gear 90+ when climbing. Compare his technique to Ullrich's on some of the TDF climbs, especially to Alpe d'Huez. In testing Chris Carmichael determined that Armstrong produces maximum power (watts) by spinning rather than mashing. Changing from his old habit of mashing a big macho gear to spinning a smaller gear made Armstrong a better, faster climber.

The question of faster vs harder works in many areas. In my youth I flew model airplanes. On the same engine, with the same fuel/air mix, a 9 inch propeller with less pitch (smaller gear) allowed the engine to generate more RPMs and the plane would fly faster than using a 10 inch propeller with more pitch (bigger gear). D*Alex could probably give more examples of mechanical situations where moving lower resistance faster produces more work more efficiently than moving a heavier resistance more slowly. Obviously, this only applies within a reasonable range of options.

I was very happy to find that, perhaps because I started out on my city bike for several months, a cadence of 90-95 is my favorite area. Now, on the "real" bike , it is even easier to keep that up, only the speeds over the ground are much faster! :)


I also find that instead of it being work to maintain those revs, when I do shift up, and the RPM goes down, it is impossible for me to resist spinning back up to speed again.

And the cycle repeats through the gears. Faster, faster ... Pretty neat stuff.

Cheers...Gary

Spinning does tend to be more efficient for climbing (I've had plenty of opportunities to find out), but not if it's forced. Some have a greater gift for it than others. It's something you have to work on gradually.