Touring - Lightweight Fences for Bears

In some areas, for some people -- especially families and other groups -- these might be a good option.

Most people can manage to shave off a little weight here and there -- and even without saving some weight elsewhere, 3.7 pounds isn't always so bad.

There is a good video here,

http://www.nols.edu/resources/research/movies/bearfence_xl.shtml

and more information here,

http://www.udap.com/bearshock.htm

The Applachian Trail has all but removed their bear fences. Bear attacks are very rare. The best way to prevent a bear is to use common sense, like not keeping your food in your tent in bear country.

I also can't see how this is powered by 2 D batteries (3 volts) but yet maintain a 6,000 volt charge for 5 weeks.

And what about any smaller critters that touch this thing or if a human accidentally touches it?

Secure your campsite right and you don't have to worry about such items.

Niles: I am sure that you are providing the above information as a public service. My knee jerk reaction follows:

At times I start to think that people want to control every possible or potential problem or risk that they might encounter on tour. Fear of the unknown seems to have infected our international, national and personal thinking and planning. These fears are inflated all out of proportion to the actual threat posed by the subject at hand. You are at greater risk stepping into the bathtub than from a bear encounter.

For every bear story endlessly highlighted or hyped in the media the odds of a bear encounter at any time or place remains low and can be reduced further by simple camping techniques like cooking away from your tents and storing all food and other attractants in bear boxes or hung properly.

Touring is not a risk free activity but I will always worry more about car encounters than bears encounters.

Niles: I am sure that you are providing the above information as a public service.

No, actually, Niles H. is a troll and should be ignored.

I have spent lots of time camping in bear country. I can't imagine any motivated bear being deterred by a little fence. Better to think about keeping you food as far away from the tent as possible and as inaccessible to bears as you can.

Niles: I am sure that you are providing the above information as a public service. My knee jerk reaction follows:

At times I start to think that people want to control every possible or potential problem or risk that they might encounter on tour. Fear of the unknown seems to have infected our international, national and personal thinking and planning. These fears are inflated all out of proportion to the actual threat posed by the subject at hand. You are at greater risk stepping into the bathtub than from a bear encounter.

For every bear story endlessly highlighted or hyped in the media the odds of a bear encounter at any time or place remains low and can be reduced further by simple camping techniques like cooking away from your tents and storing all food and other attractants in bear boxes or hung properly.

Touring is not a risk free activity but I will always worry more about car encounters than bears encounters.

I totally agree. Yes - be wise and take precautions. But we do that all the time - when we step into the bathtub we step carefully so we don't slip and hit our head, we look both ways before crossing the street, we test out logs for stability before stepping on them... I think the issue is that so few people have actually had encounters with bears, so we don't know "intuitively" what to do.

No, actually, Niles H. is a troll and should be ignored.

Damn straight!

He starts simply bizarre threads with absurd ideas bordering on the paranoid.

Perhaps you could combine the power supply for the fence with the microwave power supply in order to save weight

Perhaps you could combine the power supply for the fence with the microwave power supply in order to save weight

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

I can imagine getting up in the middle of the night, unzipping, and having that stream come into contact with the hotwire. Rude awakening indeed.

Really stupid to carry a fence around.

A Glock 9mm , a machete, and a steel bike frame would keep you much safer and last years longer.

Niles: I am sure that you are providing the above information as a public service....

Yes, glad to see that at least someone gets it.

Regarding the bear fences: The National Outdoor Leadership School also gets it, as do many of the people who have used these fences and offer their testimonials about them.

*******
Personally, I've had very close encounters (including surprises at extremely close range) with bears (including when sleeping and when eating), and would seriously consider carrying one of these in certain areas and at certain times of the year.

Statistically, bear encounters are rather rare. But these statistics are misleading, because they usually take a much larger and more general population, which includes many many many people who have virtually no chance of encountering bears.

When a person is living (camping, sleeping, eating, etc.) among them, the situation is very different, and the chances of encounters are much higher.

In some areas, one is virtually certain to have encounters.

Contrary to what some people are claiming, absence of food and food odors is not a reliable solution (again, during certain times in certain areas, with certain populations of bears).

If one talks with experienced rangers in areas that have a lot of bear problems, a clearer picture emerges.

No, actually, Niles H. is a troll....

Falsehood, plain and simple.

I can't imagine any motivated bear being deterred by a little fence.
If you watch the video, you can see how deterred they actually are.

Touring is not a risk free activity but I will always worry more about car encounters than bears encounters.

I absolutely agree that cars are a greater threat for the majority of cyclotourists.

However, some camp in (intensive) bear country, and the bears can be a very legitimate concern.

Perhaps my own perspective is different because I have had so many encounters. Some of them have not been a joke at all -- they've been some of the most memorable and adrenaline-saturated moments of my life. Researching matters after these encounters, and speaking with rangers and bear experts, concerns were well confirmed and validated (even enhanced in some cases). If I were taking a family with children into these areas, I would almost certainly use one of these fences.

Part of the reason for posting the information is that some of the readers and participants here have mentioned plans to travel in bear country, and have mentioned wondering about precautions to take.

These fences are a very viable option for such people.

..absurd ideas bordering on the paranoid.

Sorry, false.

Try bordering on the apodictically well-confirmed by multiple experiences in a variety of areas.

Y'know, the first thing I did when I saw Niles' post was laugh out loud.

However, I happened to run it past a few friends of mine with some outdoor experience, though, and much to my surprise they did NOT think it was a completely insane idea. In particular you can get a pretty good jolt out of a couple of D batteries. So it might even work.

Personally I'd want more than one video as evidence of its effectiveness. It's also rather expensive.

I also would not plan to keep the food inside my tent and then surround said tent with the fence; for even if it does work, it's not necessarily fool-proof. E.g. another animal could easily damage the fence, or you might not set it up right, and voila you've got a furry visitor.

I suspect that overall, bear-proof canisters, "Ur-sacks," and getting your food as odor-proof as possible is still going to be more effective and easier to carry. The bear fence strikes me as a good secondary line of defense, that is really only useful if you are in an area where the bear population is high, bears are somewhat habituated to humans, and it will be difficult to replace your food supplies. (I think that narrows it down to, uh... Alaska? :D )

My understanding is that bear attacks on humans are exceedingly rare, but it's still not a good thing for them to become habituated to human food.

I totally agree. Yes - be wise and take precautions. But we do that all the time - when we step into the bathtub we step carefully so we don't slip and hit our head, we look both ways before crossing the street, we test out logs for stability before stepping on them... I think the issue is that so few people have actually had encounters with bears, so we don't know "intuitively" what to do.

Yes, the precautions are not mutually exclusive.

There is no reason you cannot take appropriate precautions in the bathroom, while going down stairs, while driving, while flying a plane, while swimming, while with children who are doing such things, while choosing what diets to feed ourselves and our families, while exercising, while crossing the street, while crossing streams and rivers.....

AND while traveling and living among bears that have become conditioned to associate human beings and their possessions and campsites with unusual amounts of food.

There is nothing that says you have to sacrifice the latter in order to have the former.

*******
For some people bears are basically an abstraction. They haven't had the encounters and don't know how common they are in some areas.

They also don't know how destructive bears can be to campsites and equipment. They also haven't seen the aftermaths of maulings.

There is a good video showing some bears going through a campsite.

I've had it happen, and I've talked with others about it. It happens.

Even without food present, bears will do this. It isn't uncommon in certain areas.

It's expensive and trip-disrupting, among other things; and it's worth taking appropriate precautions in areas where it is a reasonable probability or likelihood.

Perhaps you could combine the power supply for the fence with the microwave power supply in order to save weight

You make joke. ;)

It could work though.

This thread is a joke.................

...(I think that narrows it down to....)

Add Yosemite Valley, Little Yosemite, Tuolumne Meadows, many parts of Yellowstone, Tahoe National Forest, Hetch Hetchy, Lassen, Sequoia National Park, BLM lands, much of the Sierras, Glacier.............

(If experienced rangers in these areas are consulted, many of them will confirm. The bears with the worst reputations are actually not in Alaska but in the Sierras.)


My understanding is that bear attacks on humans are exceedingly rare, but it's still not a good thing for them to become habituated to human food.

Attacks on human camping gear and possessions, particularly in some campsites, are actually extremely common in certain areas.

********
Although attacks are relatively rare, they do happen. Maulings and fatalities occur both with grizzlies and with black bears. Most knowledgeable rangers recommend strongly that people know the best protocols before they are faced with encounters.

This thread is a joke.................

Not so, except in certain minds that just don't get it.

Not so, except in certain minds that just don't get it.

I don't think you get it. What a stupid idea.

Anyway, spring bear season starts soon. Maybe its time for a new rug.

The reason the batteries last so long is that the fence is just sitting in potential most of the time. They very rarely need to apply much power.

*******
It's also worth mentioning that raccoons (which are close relatives of bears, and share many behaviours) can also be quite destructive, especially in certain campsites.

They often move in when you are asleep or when the campsite is temporarily unattended.

And in some areas there are other types of animals that can be a problem.

These fences could be quite useful in some of these situations as well.

The reason the batteries last so long is that the fence is just sitting in potential most of the time. They very rarely need to apply much power.

*******
It's also worth mentioning that raccoons (which are close relatives of bears, and share many behaviours) can also be quite destructive, especially in certain campsites.

They often move in when you are asleep or when the campsite is temporarily unattended.

And in some areas there are other types of animals that can be a problem.

These fences could be quite useful in some of these situations as well.

Even more helpful would not be keeping food in your tent.

Interesting idea for a fence, would I trust it, not a chance. A standard horse fence has more power then this and a determined bear will walk right threw one of those. The principal for a 2 D battery fence has been around for some time. 10+ years ago I used one to section off some of my property for a friends horses while he was rebuilding the fencing at his home. They are not very powerful. I like how people look at power ratings and think that will give you an idea of the shock strength. 6,000v sounds like a lot but what is the amp rating? If the amps are low enough you could hold 6,000v in your hand all day long with no effect.

Electric fences were tried in Yosemite years ago. After a few puzzled looks, the bears just took the suckers out.

A friend of mine is a beekeeper and he has a heavy duty electric fence around his hives, about once a year a bear tries to get at the hives by going through the fence. The bears get through the fence when they really want to. The good part is that we get to eat bear meat while admiring a new rug when that happens.

I bet you that the time that you would have a problem with bears is when you are going through the woods looking for a spot and come up on one and surprise them. You would have to set up the fence mighty quick.

It seems like a waste to carry all that stuff, when a few days into a tour you are thinking of what to ditch so you can ride lighter. You are better off to learn about bear sign and what it means, as well as how to avoid bear encounters.

Add Yosemite Valley, Little Yosemite, Tuolumne Meadows, many parts of Yellowstone, Tahoe National Forest, Hetch Hetchy, Lassen, Sequoia National Park, BLM lands, much of the Sierras, Glacier.....

Attacks on human camping gear and possessions, particularly in some campsites, are actually extremely common in certain areas.

********
Although attacks are relatively rare, they do happen. Maulings and fatalities occur both with grizzlies and with black bears. Most knowledgeable rangers recommend strongly that people know the best protocols before they are faced with encounters.

National parks have programs to keep bears from getting habituated to humans and conditioned to raid human food. The problems are in the Sierra Mtn parks that you cited. They are not extremely common!

To have to carry and install a fence every time you camp is absurd.

I would recommend that everybody read "Bear Attacks" , by Stephen Herrero, if you are concerned. There are other good books, too. You will learn bear behavior and what to do.

Really good advice is not to fry up a bunch of fish for dinner.

Another thing to keep in mind is if you are stealth camping in bear country, try and do it near or in a horse pasture. Bears are naturally afraid of the smell of a horse for some reason. I go on horse back camping trips once in a while and when I do I tie the horses on opposite edges of the camp and on some nights you can shine a light and see bears watching from across the valleys but none will even come with in 150 yards. I have never had a problem. But if there was a problem I sleep with big guns (camping rule #1: never trust nature).

Another thing to keep in mind is if you are stealth camping in bear country, try and do it near or in a horse pasture. Bears are naturally afraid of the smell of a horse for some reason. I go on horse back camping trips once in a while and when I do I tie the horses on opposite edges of the camp and on some nights you can shine a light and see bears watching from across the valleys but none will even come with in 150 yards. I have never had a problem. But if there was a problem I sleep with big guns (camping rule #1: never trust nature).
After we reported a grizzly 500 yards from the trail head on the Cracker Lake Trail in Glacier NP, the rangers came out and guarded the horse corral with rifles for the rest of the evening. Our public servants were obviously playing it safe. Nice people. You know, I am thinking that a string of firecrackers might be more effective than bear mace.

The reason the batteries last so long is that the fence is just sitting in potential most of the time. They very rarely need to apply much power.

I get that but I can't see how 2 D batteries (3 volts) can output that much volts into shocking a bear. I'm not doubting you or the website, it just doesn't make sense from a logical viewpoint for that to happen.



It's also worth mentioning that raccoons (which are close relatives of bears, and share many behaviours) can also be quite destructive, especially in certain campsites.


Now that a critter you are more likely to have trouble with. Along with mice. The critter that scares me the most (and will clear out any shelter) is the skunk. No one wants to piss off of skunk.

Niles,
I do enjoy your postings on here, it gets people to think and talk. Radical ideas often lead to rational solutions.

Maybe one of those canned horns you hear at hockey arenas might scare any bear away.

It's interesting ... I've lived and camped in bear country most of my life, and I've seen numerous bears ... even been close enough to touch one once ... but I've never felt the need for a bear fence, or any weaponry against bears.

I am meticulously careful about my food, and I leave the bears alone. After all the land is theirs, not mine.