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Please.
I'm sure you had reasons for banning him, but from all appearances he seems to be a rather harmless 16 or 17 year old H.S. kid from Michigan with delusions of Velo Grandeur. That makes him just like half the weenies here only younger. I found a high school racer wannabe refreshing. Particularly since the sport hasn't beaten his dreams out of him yet.
Bring him back. Give the kid another chance. Not for nothing, but if this is some other member's ruse, it's awfully elaborate with a My Space page and all.
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I agree. There has never been a good reason to ban the kid.
I agree. There has never been a good reason to ban the kid.
With due respect to the mods, I can't be sure of that. But that's how it appears to many of us, so an explanation would be nice. Nobody owes us that of course, it's really not our concern. But many of us don't quite get this situation at all. We liked ryanf. I thought he was the most entertaining member here.
Besides me.
One thing's for sure, I don't think there is any danger of any of the rest of us duplicating whatever it was he did to get banned.
I say bring him back. If he's annoying or not funny he can just be banned again. :)
I'm annoying and not funny to some members, I'm still here.
I'm annoying and not funny to some members, I'm still here.
It's been an oversight on our part. ;)
Besides me.
"Pride goeth before the fall" or something to that effect. :)
I agree with the topic of this thread wholeheartedly. Maybe it's because I'm a high school teacher but I've always seen Ryan as harmless and (sometimes) amusing. Believe me his peer group is capable of much worse than worshiping Jan Ullrich and giving us an alternative spelling for our thigh muscles. :)
I know people complain about his threads going on for pages but it wasn't like he was posting to himself; and if I don't click it, even a 100 page thread doesn't take any of my time.
If he is (was) a ruse and you banned him for that why don't you (moderators) just come out and say so?
:beer:
I agree. There has never been a good reason to ban the kid.
Incorrect. There were many reasons to ban him. Which is why he was banned so many times before it became permanent.
One thing's for sure, I don't think there is any danger of any of the rest of us duplicating whatever it was he did to get banned.
Again, incorrect. Enough said.
I'm annoying and not funny to some members, I'm still here.
What LowCel said.
Guys, Ryanf had his chance(s). Many of them. Too many of them by many people's opinions (and not just the mods). I see no reason to reverse the decision.
I see no reason to reverse the decision.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/TomStormcrowe/Graduation/100_dollar_bill.jpg
we can make it happen. Just say the word.
I see no reason to reverse the decision.
We need to make a poll. patentcad, get on that !
I'm annoying and not funny to some members, I'm still here.
"Fingers on keyboard, depress shift key, depress the 'plus' sign key, depress the 'number 1' key. As I have seen it written prior.
Even George Kennedy became pals with Paul Newman after the brawl, and he helped him eat 50-hard boiled eggs. Maybe we can suggest Ryanf eating 50 of something to regain the good graces of the "M's" or dig a hole and then fill it back in; over and over again.
"I'm just sayin." As I have seen it written prior.
M
Just read his blog and comment. If he gets enough hits, maybe BD will sponsor him too.
Guys, Ryanf had his chance(s). Many of them. Too many of them by many people's opinions (and not just the mods). I see no reason to reverse the decision.
I appreciate the fact that you and the legion of unnamed heroes have worked so hard to save us from the dangers of a teenager on the internet......(sarcasm most definitely intended).
You give every appearance of taking this matter personally. If that's true you need to examine why that blue star is so important to you.
I mean, I see much worse than anything Ryan did nearly every day here, especially on this particular forum. Most of the comments that raise my eyebrows come from people who are older adults, or at least claim to be. (No, I'm not referring to PCad, whom I consider to be just an older version of Ryan.) :)
I realize that he may have committed some truly unpardonable offense but the view from the outside is that some people, including mods, got uptight about the silliness of his "conversations" whined about it to other mods and threw the kid out.
You all are free to do that but don't be surprised when you get called on it...
:beer:
I have some news for some of you: Spinal Tap is not a "real" rock and roll band, Pee Wee Herman is not a "real" little boy, and Ryanf is not a "real" clueless idiot on a road bike. If you didn't find him funny you are a little bit thick.
Where the eff is the effing poll ?
Pcad, get on the ball here.
I always thought RyanF was funny. He was responsible for so many good BikeForums memes!
Spinal Tap is not a "real" rock and roll band
Next, you're gonna tell me that the Monkees were just a made for TV group that tried to cash in on Beatlemania.
Go rain on somebody else's parade. :)
:beer:
A couple of the mods have issues with Ryan that can't be resolved. They were among the most prominent posters in the threads that got Ryan banned and it wasn't so much what Ryan wrote as it was how he was egged on. He responded badly sometimes, but it wasn't cause for a permanent ban--my opinion, anyway, which doesn't count for squat around here.
The fact that this thread has been shoved into a forum that almost no one ever frequents is a pretty good indication of how the mods choose to treat the subject. Try to ignore it, sweep it under the rug--it'll go away.
well, SM, it was moved so that less people would view it because they don't want to deal with it. the next step, if moderation follows previous ways, the thread will either get locked down or deleted altogether.
bring the kid back.
Was it really, WP? Which of the mods had informed you of that?
I believe it was moved here to "Forum Suggestions" because it was SUGGESTED?? Mods and admins will frequent this thread more so than the others for SUGGESTIONS.
I would love to see him back too!
Was it really, WP? Which of the mods had informed you of that?
I believe it was moved here to "Forum Suggestions" because it was SUGGESTED?? Mods and admins will frequent this thread more so than the others for SUGGESTIONS.
Let's reflect for a moment. Was this really the most appropriate response you could have conjured?
Was it really, WP? Which of the mods had informed you of that?
I believe it was moved here to "Forum Suggestions" because it was SUGGESTED?? Mods and admins will frequent this thread more so than the others for SUGGESTIONS.
thank you for your contribution. i wasn't informed of anything, just making assumptions based on previous behavior.
am I now being singled out for voicing my opinions???
It would be fun to have RyanF around again - but then again, it isn't all that important to me. Soon everyone will start riding again and you Northerners will be over your cabin fever.
We have cabina fever down here, but that only occurs for a couple of weeks - but I remember how it was, oh do I remember....
why don't you pick on Pcad...he's the one that started this damn thread?? (j/k Pcad)
Was it really, WP? Which of the mods had informed you of that?
I believe it was moved here to "Forum Suggestions" because it was SUGGESTED?? Mods and admins will frequent this thread more so than the others for SUGGESTIONS.
So if someone doesn't like a thread, they can "suggest" it be moved here? Yeah, that makes sense. :rolleyes:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=305695&page=2
Let's reflect for a moment. Was this really the most appropriate response you could have conjured?
If she was giving valid information as to why it was moved here, I'd like to know which mod said they were hiding it. It's not fair to hide it!!
It was put here so that the mods and admins will have a better chance at seeing it, since this is the forum where suggestions are.
thank you for your contribution. i wasn't informed of anything, just making assumptions based on previous behavior.
am I now being singled out for voicing my opinions???
And no, WP. I am not singling you out for voicing your opinion. I am merely asking you who said that. :)
So if someone doesn't like a thread, they can "suggest" it be moved here? Yeah, that makes sense. :rolleyes:
It was suggested RyanF come back.
like i said in the previous post - no one said, emailed, pm'd or anything to me about anything. previous behavior on threads that mods don't care for is my reasoning behind the initial post. i've seen a lot of sh!t go on in the past 3 months and it seems like this thread was/is headed in the same direction as any other thread that's started about Ryanf.
meh. whatever. :rolleyes:
*edit* i will refrain from any more postings in this thread. seems to be a sore subject for a lot of moderators, for whatever reason.
People, the ban isn't going to be lifted. He was a distraction, and would derail topics. If the ban was lifted on him and a couple of weeks later he'd probably fall back to posting the usual crap, and reported posts start coming in we would have to ban him again based on his back ground and his numerous chances he had, which he blew almost every single time by coming back with a different account.
He has had numerous warnings, he never listened to them, he was temporarily banned, he came back with different accounts, so there were no other options but to ban permanently.
Read this post, please......it's appropriate and explains why I just locked this down.
Pcad, ryan isn't going to come back. He did receive numerous chances, as the other mods have said. Yeah, he was funny sometimes, but his disruption was more detriment than his funniness was beneficial.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=6170225&postcount=1
What the most of you don't know about was the large number of reported RyanF threads and
posts that we (mods and admins) had to wade through daily.
I am not suggesting that Ryanf was banned due to the large amount of work
his posts elicited, but the large number of reports. His posts tended to be disruptive, and
although somewhat amusing according to many participating in this thread, that is a violation
of guidelines. Enough members saw his posts as a problem to report them frequently (and no,
not every post/thread got reported). The reports came from multiple members not just a small
minority of members.
As mentioned before he was given multiple 7 day bans and had ample warnings
about his posts before the permanent ban went into effect.
Lotek
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=6170225&postcount=1
All bans since mid-February 2008 are available for viewing on this thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=388447). The text from the above link:
If a member is banned, we will attempt to let the remaining members know why in this thread, as well as provide a return date.
The following info will be posted here:
Username
Reason for ban
Return date
It will be up to the individual moderator, as well as the banned member, if any other information is provided. What we do not want to see is a bunch of threads requesting more information. That sort of baiting the moderators and admins will be considered trolling. You can contact the banned member, or one of the moderator/admin team, and we will give you as much information as we can fairly provide. But there will be no open discussion on the forums. Those threads will be locked and trashed immediately.
http://alphabeticaprime.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/100_dollar_bill.jpg
we can make it happen. Just say the word.
No, it would need to be more like this:
http://www.industryoutsider.com/images/bills.jpg
When one user can disrupt the forums that much, and knowingly cause that much work for the moderators, I see no reason to allow him to participate on this site. This tiny fraction of 1% of members here are the cause of at least 80% of reported posts. We ask nicely, beg, plead, warn, and then ban. And yet, someone will always question our decision.
It's tempting to offer a "mod for a day" program, just so some of you can see what it's like.
Note - I've reopened this thread, so perhaps something constructive will come of it.
Why we need him back:
Let me introduce myself. My name is Ryan, you can call me by my nickname "hamer". I'm a soldier in a broken world. I've heard some of you guys talking about taking things one day at a time. As far as I'm concerned that's copout. Wussy-Ness is not a disease, it's a failing. What you need, to be a Pro-cyclist is strength of mind, willpower and character. I come to this forum for one reason, to remember what I don't want to become; helpless, (?em-pap-tint?) and weak. I'm going for a ride. Don't contact me. I'll contact you. Thank you, as you were.
P.S. and for petes sake stop spinning.
I will race ANYONE on here. I keep in good shape for stuff like this.
I always found him amusing, sometimes he was irratating, but I think a net gain. Also i kinda miss Helmet Head, whacky but fun. Cant the people that they irratate just ignore them? Sorry I did not read all the post if this was addressed earlier I will look it up. Hate banning people becasue of thier posts.
So do we, making, so do we.
Doesn't he get to come back if he wins a real race? If so that is his chance to come back.
I had a constructive PM discussion with Tom Stormcrowe which I will not repeat in its entirety but it's crux was pretty simple:
In my (admittedly probably incomplete) observation it seemed that most of the problems surrounding ryanf was the reaction of other members. He'd post something silly and juvenile (and at least he had the excuse of being juvenile) and a number of other members (without ryanf's excuse) would get bent out of shape,verbally challenge him and, also, apparently report to the moderators. Since nobody is forced to click any one thread link, I don't see how that's ryanf's fault and considering some of the venom in the replies to his posts; I don't understand why he got banned. That and the apparent, to me and I could be mis-perceiving, joy on the part of some of the moderators in banning him makes me view this as unfair and is the reason why I'm taking time out of my Spring Break to advocate for a kid I've never met.
Also, it seems to me the "Mods had to work real hard argument" fails in this case. Frankly, if I were a mod and someone complained about a silly post my response would be "shut up, ignore it and move on." Would lower the workload. ;)
:beer:
Doesn't he get to come back if he wins a real race? If so that is his chance to come back.
Yes, however the "real race" is the Tour de France. ;)
I had a constructive PM discussion with Tom Stormcrowe which I will not repeat in its entirety but it's crux was pretty simple:
In my (admittedly probably incomplete) observation it seemed that most of the problems surrounding ryanf was the reaction of other members. He'd post something silly and juvenile (and at least he had the excuse of being juvenile) and a number of other members (without ryanf's excuse) would get bent out of shape,verbally challenge him and, also, apparently report to the moderators. Since nobody is forced to click any one thread link, I don't see how that's ryanf's fault and considering some of the venom in the replies to his posts; I don't understand why he got banned. That and the apparent, to me and I could be mis-perceiving, joy on the part of some of the moderators in banning him makes me view this as unfair and is the reason why I'm taking time out of my Spring Break to advocate for a kid I've never met.
Also, it seems to me the "Mods had to work real hard argument" fails in this case. Frankly, if I were a mod and someone complained about a silly post my response would be "shut up, ignore it and move on." Would lower the workload. ;)
:beer:
Thanks for the insight - I share the same impression on the series of events/posts that led to his banning.
I, too, feel his perma-ban should be lifted.
That wasn't insight, it was opinion.
I read several different message boards throughout the day and I have to say that the amount of censorship on this board is unreal. I never really read any posts from this ryanf but the ones I did were amusing. Who cares if he stirs up emotion from others. That is the beauty of a message board. It forces people to think. One can choose to respond to his threads or not. I don't recall him ever threatening physcial violence towards anyone. Why not let the rank and file of the board ban him by not responding to his threads if they choose to.
What type of training have the moderators had to determine whether or not a member should be banned? Is it based on the forum guidelines? Has the owner of this board personally trained each and every moderator? Is there any proof of any training if it exists? Is there any diversity and sensitivity training offered to the moderators? Who oversees the moderators? Can we have a name and phone number so they can be contacted?
This board is very much like a television set. If you don't like what your watching then turn the channel. If people don't like ryanf then they don't have to read his posts. I like this board and I learn alot from it. I am also a paying customer. I believe as a paying customer maybe I should have the right as to is a moderator and who isn't. What is the old saying?????????????? The customer is always right. Yup, that is it.
I look at this board as one big group ride. If you don't like somebody then drop them during the ride, you don't ban them. If I allowed people to get to me when I was a teenager then I wouldn't be riding today. If I wasn't riding today who knows what I would be doing.
Everybody can learn something from anybody. I think ryanf is very immature but over time that may change.
In closing, as a paying customer I would like to know what the criteria is to become a moderator and if I can become one?
It doesn't feel good when your left out of a basketball game because your to short or your the last one to be picked on a baseball team. The one thing I love about cycling is that it is an individual or team sport. I ride as an individual and come to a site like this to discuss cycling, I don't care if ryanf discusses cycling or the color of the sky, I know what it is like not to be included in a team. I come to this site because I love cycling and everything about it. What is ryanf feeling? Because a few people don't like him we ban him. I want the option to choose what I want to read and what I don't want to read.
Ban the people who spam, ban the people who threaten violence. Don't ban somebody because he is different.
If he comes back I'm sure he will be able to tone it down a little if you ask. I am really curious as to who all these members are that are complaining about people like ryanf. If you see he started a thread and you dont like it, dont click. People are way to sensitive. I personally think he should be brought back.
Atleast make a poll asking the members of this forum what they want. I feel the mods don't listen to what anyone here wants and they just do their own thing. This led to the loss of many members. Getting rid of people like RyanF, Cypress, Helmet Head, Portis, and others is not helping the site.
The board has a nice little "ignore" feature, too. Why don't the mods encourage people to use it more liberally?
Okay, I don't get this. Back when he was banned, I suggested he could start his own blog, and lo and behold, he did! Great, you can interact with him on his blog to his and your heart's content. What is the loss here beside disruption? Has BF dropped in volume? I don't think so, not with all the cabin fever angst right now. :rolleyes: People can even mention him and post a link to his Blog - heck, put it as your signiture if you want. ;)
The damage to BF by banning a few people who just couldn't seem to learn has been nothing compared to the damage done by people not dealing with this privately with the moderators and if you wish, owners, of BF. I agree, to bring up these issues IS trolling. People are posting it merely to get people riled up and upset - and there is no benefit.
I always assume I only see part of the picture - and I rather doubt any moderator is a moderator because they are on a power trip. They are trying to deal with things the best they can, and some decisions will be difficult. And, I won't always agree either - tough twinkies. Unless I am willing to do my time as a moderator (I am not - I am running a company) - I need to let others do their job.
Fred, you are very wise.
Yep that is the problem with Fred, he is usually right.:)
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