I'd like to keep discussing Gene, but as Lem correctly pointed out that is not the subject of this thread and I have no desire at this time Friday to start a new thread.
Enjoy the weekend!
Al

^^^^ Sorry folks ! I apologize if I sounded rude but being very familiar
with this area this subject is very touchy to me. Im only 5 miles away and
stuff that happens here could very easily creep my way. I am going to go and
when I speak try(?) to be calm and rational and say that this transcends a
cycle vs. car issue. People here are very mean and our area has the highest
death rate for cyclists in the country. This is no coincidence. It seems logical
to me that everyone getting along and practicing patience and tolerance to cyclists
like they do in more civil and forward thinking countries would be a benefit to all
of society and a better goal to shoot for rather than legally enabling anger
and incivility toward other humans based on nothing more than personal prejudices.
Something like that............

We'll see...............

My father in law lives in Stuart, just a stones throw away and he was talking about it.. There seem to be alot of bike lanes where he lives, but for group rides, I didn't see any "good" roads.. Jupiter Island roads, I think are really narrow, plus his beef was at the beach all the cyclist park there and go for their rides and no one else can park at the beach.. (there is VERY limited parking at this beach, I mean VERY), but there is a shopping center 1/2 mile inland that has plenty of parking with a bike shop in it and he can't figure out why, (and neither could I either) why they don't park in this huge parking lot instead of taking up all the parking for the beach..

I have to admit, I've never ridden with these groups, but judging by what I saw traffic wise, I can understand peoples frustrations on both sides.. What I don't understand, is why do they not ride inland instead of on a road they know gets lots of traffic..

The beach is public property and there fore a no tow zone. during hours of operation. the shopping center is private property and the owner could just have every car with a bike rack towed at the owners expense.

I think part of the problem is that the rides and the cars look at a group of bicycles as one entitiy. The bikes think so because usually only the first one slows and a stop sign, then rest run it to stay together.And they get uptight if a car gets in the middle of the group. The cars think a group should move over as a group and let them pass. Wach bike should be looked at as an individual vehicle. They should all stop at signals and signs, and cars should pass one or two at a time, just like they'd pass a car. And if they can't pass one or two at a time, then that is called 'traffic' and they have to wait, just like they would behind a large group of cars.

is a small strip mall with a huge parking lot and not many occupants at that, so I don't know why that would be a problem with probably over 200 parking spaces, where as the beach has only maybe 50.. Plus, there is a bike shop at this center, so it would make sense to have cars with bike racks on them there.. Why should the beach goers have to walk a 1/2 mile to the beach (remember, there are a lot of older people who live in this area and people with small children) and a group of cyclist park and take up all the beach parking and not even be using the beach.. You'd have to see the area, but in this one instance, I'd have to agree with the users of the beach..

Kinda like an instance on the greenway here, walkers and runners use it and people like to ride there bikes on it, which is fine except when you have a few local group rides come through at 20+ mph.. Now the city has gotten involved, put up speed limit signs and a guy with a radar gun giving cyclist tickets if they are exceeding the set speed.. Can't say I blame the city on this one.. Is there really a need to go down a greenway where children are riding their bikes or skating at 20+ mph? Is it worth taking out a child or older person on their daily cruise...

I think the biggest issue is, you have a lot of people trying to use a small area..

The size of the parking lot s irrelevent. it is private proporty. Unless the city draft an agreement with that mall it cannot be assumed for the public use.

For instance a side street has parking on the curb. all the spaces are full but several driveways have availible slots. you cant use them.

as to your second point. the 20mph limit on the bike lane. The assumes that ALL bicycel riders are recreational. which is fine. But then you cannot ban them from the road which is the case here.

about the parking, it seems like the LBS in the shopping center would, (and may have, I don't know) contact the owners and ask.

Here, we are not kept off the road, just some hot rods decide that the greenway (it's not a total bike path) is theirs to race on.. They essentially are hurting all of us locally.. The LBS's here have taken action to try to encourage these few to stay on the road for fast riding.. Actually, a few months ago, one took out an older lady on her cruiser.. Yep, it wasn't a pretty site..

It'll be interesting to see how things turn out down there for sure.. It would be great if they can work something out that works for everyone, but then again, I'm sure not all parties will be willing to compromise.. Those seniors down there are a tough bunch, I ought to know, my father in law is one of them..:D

How could they enforce a group size limit? One could claim to not be a part of the group and just happen to be going the same direction on the same road at the same time. I have been "caught up" in cycling groups whilst riding solo. It happens with automobiles all the time.

I have been "caught up" in cycling groups whilst riding solo. It happens with automobiles all the time.

Yes - and groups of a variety of sizes get caught up in other groups. In popular recreational cycling areas it can be near impossible to distinguish which groups if any the cyclists are with.

Al