Road Bike Racing - ive come around on sandbagging

and I encourage more people to sandbag in my division.

it will only force me to become a better, stronger racer and be more prepared to race in the next level if I am good enough to get there.

YES I made another sandbagging thread. Just what this forum needs right?

Can we inject elitist/Fred debates, too? That will generate more traffic.

Sandbagging is great for flooding.

In bike racing, it's like staying in 8th grade when your classmates move on to high school. Sure, the tests are easy, but don't you want to grow.

I understand what the OP is saying. He wants the challenge of beating lifer Cat IIIs or IVs so that he's that much better when he moves up. I just bristle at the idea of someone wanting to go stagnant on purpose.

hey i just wanted to make a thread applauding instead of complaining :p

Sorry, I cannot sandbag. I will probably cat up as soon as these last 3 races are under my belt. At least I will try to cat up.

What if you're a lifer CAT3 because you suck?

What if you're a lifer CAT3 because you suck?

Race masters when you Age Up.


edit: and the word "suck" shouldn't be in your vocabulary. Unless you are talking about someone else.

I flatted out of the A group on the Tuesday Nighter. I fixed the flat before the Bs caught up, so I finished the last lap with them. A couple of them thanked me afterwards for coming in there and bumping up the pace (I attacked - a lot). Of course, I wasn't a "sitting in for the sprint" sandbagger. I was working more than anyone.

What if you're a lifer CAT3 because you suck?

well if you suck i doubt you are sandbagging ;)

maybe you could see about a downgrade to the 4s? :p

well if you suck i doubt you are sandbagging ;)

maybe you could see about a downgrade to the 4s? :p

lol i don't think he was talking about himself sucking... if you are, Snuff, don't be so hard on yourself :p
hell i have almost enough upgrade points to get to cat 2 (20 out of 25) but I think I will "sandbag" cat 3 for a few months at least. i want to have at least some fun (and win some $) before i am kicked upstairs. don't worry guys, i won't make a habit of sandbagging :D

i have definitely heard of upgrading to cat 2 too soon and seen the result

If I ever - EVER! - make it to where I have enough wins or points to upgrade to cat2, the rounds are on me.

http://www.genx40.com/images/2006d/pabst2a.JPG

I don't understand why people would want to sandbag.

I also really don't get why people get tremendeously upset when someone else sandbags.

In both cases the answer is HTFU.

didnt you stay in cat 5 for the longest time for no good reason, merlin?

^ I can assure you no one one was complaining about me sandbagging.

And my results as a 4 suggest perhaps I should still be a 5.

(i.e. dnf, dfl, 26th, 37th)

I also really don't get why people get tremendeously upset when someone else sandbags.



Can't say that I've ever been tremendously upset, but my experience last year was that I very much wanted to upgrade to the 3s (longer races which suit me, better start times, tougher competition appealed to me) but was "stuck" behind a handful of guys that had WAY more than the required points to upgrade. Basically every week was a race for 6th for me (or something). The OP's point that I should rejoice because the competition made me stronger for this season is somewhat valid (I did get my upgrade but it took a ton of races)...but had I been able to upgrade early last season I would have gotten plenty of competition at the higher cat.

I also think there's some learning to be done at the front of a race. Things you don't learn running around in 6th. It's not that I think you need to win a bunch before you upgrade, but having your shot at it a few times helps IMO.

^ I can assure you no one one was complaining about me sandbagging.

And my results as a 4 suggest perhaps I should still be a 5.

haha i hear that

Can't say that I've ever been tremendously upset, but my experience last year was that I very much wanted to upgrade to the 3s (longer races which suit me, better start times, tougher competition appealed to me) but was "stuck" behind a handful of guys that had WAY more than the required points to upgrade. Basically every week was a race for 6th for me (or something). The OP's point that I should rejoice because the competition made me stronger for this season is somewhat valid (I did get my upgrade but it took a ton of races)...but had I been able to upgrade early last season I would have gotten plenty of competition at the higher cat.

I also think there's some learning to be done at the front of a race. Things you don't learn running around in 6th. It's not that I think you need to win a bunch before you upgrade, but having your shot at it a few times helps IMO.

My point is that by having to beat guys that probably are cat 3 level in cat 4 made you better prepared off the bat for actual cat 3 races. Sure you would have gotten the same comp by just being in cat 3 but as you basically said yourself you were practically forced to figure out a way to beat these guys in order to get your upgrade which gives you a leg up on cat 4s getting into cat 3 the easy way. If you are constantly coming in 6th you are obviously getting a pretty good chance to win since you are always finishing up front like that.

Lets face it, unless these baggers are super baggers or an entire team of baggers you are going to have to figure out how to beat them once you get to cat 3 anyway.

All true. I still would have preferred a few more/better chances to win races and I would definitely have preferred half a season of later start times!

Well again, lots would argue that by coming in 6th all the time it seems pretty apparent that you already had a good chance at winning.

i hear you about the later start times

Can't say that I've ever been tremendously upset, but my experience last year was that I very much wanted to upgrade to the 3s (longer races which suit me, better start times, tougher competition appealed to me) but was "stuck" behind a handful of guys that had WAY more than the required points to upgrade. Basically every week was a race for 6th for me (or something). The OP's point that I should rejoice because the competition made me stronger for this season is somewhat valid (I did get my upgrade but it took a ton of races)...but had I been able to upgrade early last season I would have gotten plenty of competition at the higher cat.

I also think there's some learning to be done at the front of a race. Things you don't learn running around in 6th. It's not that I think you need to win a bunch before you upgrade, but having your shot at it a few times helps IMO.



You can upgrade to 3's with pack finishes

^ I can assure you no one one was complaining about me sandbagging.

And my results as a 4 suggest perhaps I should still be a 5.

(i.e. dnf, dfl, 26th, 37th)

Umm, I thought you said that was a training thing?

Are you going to Tally this weekend?

You can upgrade to 3's with pack finishes

Isn't that a new policy?

You can upgrade to 3's with pack finishes

Which is probably the only way I'll get there.. :(

Umm, I thought you said that was a training thing?



Inherent lack of talent, and poor training are a bad combination.

unfortunately, now I have bronchitis, so I won't be racing this weekend.

Isn't that a new policy?

I don't think so, some people on our team were mentioning that people they've known that have upgraded in this fashion were not pleased with their results in the 3s.

You can upgrade to 3's with pack finishes

...And I probably will.

The higher the category, the more I like the racing. The worse I do, of course, but at least it's challenging. This sitting around for 45 minutes waiting to try a break (or the final sprint) gets boring.

...And I probably will.

The higher the category, the more I like the racing. The worse I do, of course, but at least it's challenging. This sitting around for 45 minutes waiting to try a break (or the final sprint) gets boring.

I'm guessing my upgrade will come the same way... Only need 7 or more pack finishes. Most of the 4 races around here are always full (75-100 racers) so getting points is pretty darn hard.

Inherent lack of talent, and poor training are a bad combination.

unfortunately, now I have bronchitis, so I won't be racing this weekend.

Damn, sorry to hear that. Deland then. :)

Isn't that a new policy?

I am pretty sure it is new for this year

Yup the new points matrix this year (http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580) really looks like it might kill some of the sandbagging. You basically have two choices to keep from upgrading: Really suck or not race much. I'll be playing safe by doing both in a small pond, since pack sizes matter as well.

Yup the new points matrix this year (http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580) really looks like it might kill some of the sandbagging. You basically have two choices to keep from upgrading: Really suck or not race much. I'll be playing safe by doing both in a small pond, since pack sizes matter as well.

Huh.


4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade

So I wonder if that means the race I crashed out of and the race I had a mechanical in count?

Lame.

Yup the new points matrix this year (http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580) really looks like it might kill some of the sandbagging. You basically have two choices to keep from upgrading: Really suck or not race much. I'll be playing safe by doing both in a small pond, since pack sizes matter as well.

Hopefully this new plan doesn't backfire and end up flooding cat 3 and up with sketch wannabes (I hope I will not fall into that category :o)

if you want them too I bet you could make them count

Huh.



So I wonder if that means the race I crashed out of and the race I had a mechanical in count?

Lame.

Those would count towards your 25, to go with 10 top 10s.

So theoretically you could be OTB in 15 races, but have 10 top tens, and still qualify for the lifetime achievement award.

as long as you finish a cat 4 race you could claim it was a pack finish. You could get lapped like 8 times in 20 races and as long as you just show up as dfl and not dnf you could claim pack finish and upgrade to 3!

Damn, sorry to hear that. Deland then. :)

But not Jacksonville, as there is an email going around telling of an indefinite postponement. Hopefully until the fall, but the rumor around here is the Sheriff's office won't support another race after last year.

I think it also skews the system towards faster promotion for big fish in a small pond. Cypress could well upgrade to a Cat 1 playing in his (or mine for the matter) neck of the woods.

I wonder if the next step is you have to keep your cat 3 and up ranking or face being downgraded.

Those would count towards your 25, to go with 10 top 10s.

So theoretically you could be OTB in 15 races, but have 10 top tens, and still qualify for the lifetime achievement award.

Or 20 pack finishes.. Why my "cat-3 o-meter" reads 55% based on that.

I've got around half of those for the season so far (3 or 4 top 20s even), and I'm not even warmed up yet (7 races this month with two races I care about, 8 next with a big block I care about, 2 in June that are just an excuse to go to the beach, 6 in July with two I really care about -- need to defend my "most aggressive / relegated rider" award). But the idea that a few more races qualifies me to be a "cat3" is absurd unless I start racking up points and putting down hurt...