"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Could discs have helped prevent Beloki's crash?
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11-08-03, 06:25 AM
I realize the disc brakes, rotors, and hubs will add unwanted weight but road disc brakes will not heat up the rims undermining the glue holding the tires on.
I firmly beleive this was part of the problem in the crash. The already hot temps combined with braking heat.
Perhaps the pros would scoff their use anyway as purists and due to the weight factor.
I was just so disappointed Joseba crashed when he was doing such a good job attacking Lance. Maybe he will be in similar shape or better next year.
11-08-03, 07:57 AM
Well, I really don't think that the tire had much to do with the crash. The surface was bad, and Beloki went way too hard into that corner. His brakes probably would have done their job if he used them a little more right before the entrance of that corner.
Yes I hope he comes back in good form next year too.
11-08-03, 09:19 AM
I was under the impression that it was the melted tar on the road that cuased the wheel to slip, Then the tire was forced off the rim. Beloki is a pretty light guy, and would technically generate less rim heat than Lance per se. Plus something like 80% of your stopping power is in the front brake, so I don't know if he would be generating enough heat in the rear rim.
Indurain who weighed 175 at race weight used to use a clincher on the front wheel because he used to heat the front one up pretty good on the tight descents.
Discs might be cool on a road bike, but your going to heat those little things up real well at 60 plus mph. Derfinatley hot enough to burn you if you touched it.
Do they use bigger than normal discs on Down Hill racing MTB's?
11-08-03, 09:34 AM
yea, 8inch discs are used on DH/FR bikes rather then the normal 6inches. Sometimes only on the front, but often both ends.
11-08-03, 09:50 AM
I was reading an article I believe in Velonews that discs are coming to road bikes. They said that within the next 5 years they will be fairly common place.
11-08-03, 09:27 PM
I wonder if front discs on a short wheelbase bike might be a recipe for disaster...especially with inexperienced riders.
11-09-03, 01:22 PM
Maybe if he'd just used normal tyres. What's the point of tubulars anyway? Higher pressure? Can't be the tread pattern or rubber compound surely?
11-10-03, 09:36 AM
Tubulars are "normal tires" in the pro peleton. Even teams that are sponsored by Tire Manufactures who don't make a tubular model ride tubulars. They usually Run Vittoria Pro CX, and Open Corsa CX's.
The tires are blacked out and then the sponsors representative rolls a hot-patch with the sponsors name on to the other manufactures tire.
US Postal is a good example of this, as they most always race on tubulars, but hutchinson doesn't make a tubular. Hence they race on blacked out, re-badged Vittoria's
This re-badging is nothing new. Teams need the sponsors money,the sponsor needs the exposure, but the teams don't want equipment that puts them at a disadvantage. Back in the day the 7-Eleven team went to the Tour de France riding "Huffy" bikes. Yes...they said Huffy. but they were really Serottas. Same as the Motorola Caloi's of the early 90's, they were painted, re badged Eddy Merckx's.
As far as the benefits of tubulars, yes higher pressure, upwards of 160 if you want, but most importantly weight. Most race tubulars are lighter than a race clincher w/ tube, and the rims are also lighter as they do not need the extra metal forming the hook to hold the bead.
A lot of pro teams, train on clinchers but race on tubies, my guess is cost, and ease of repair. But come race day, evey ounce counts.
If you haven't ridden any, try them. You may discover why clincher tire ads use phrases such as "almost like a tubular" but you will also discover why they use phrases such as "easier on the wallet" too.
I think that Beloki would have crashed if he used
disc, U-brakes, Cantilevers etc. The real cause
(imho) is that the tar was soft, the back end went
out and when he braked he high ended. No matter
what the brakes a tire will not slide sideways on hot
P. B. Walker
11-10-03, 02:05 PM
I personally think Beloki panicked and grabbed the brakes so hard he locked them up, similar to how an unexperienced driver will slam on the brakes on an icy road when their car loses traction. At most, he should have feathered the brakes and turned into the slide. I noticed that Lance also braked pretty hard and his tire did slip a bit too, but he immediately let go of the break and turned into his slide, which then forced him offroad.
I think the reason his tire came off is that he initially started slipping on melting tar, but then his tire hit tougher asphault. Going that fast, and getting the wheel sliding like that, then meeting hard asphault would probably cause any tire on a road bike to either come off, or at least roll on the rim a bit. Not to mention it immediately stopped the slide and whipped around into a highside slam. If he would have just not grabbed the brakes so hard and rode thru the slide a bit, he would have come back in contact with asphault and gotten control back.
I think disc brakes would have just made the problem worse, assuming he put the brakes on full. About the only thing that would have been better is that I think he would have fall on the lowside with faster, harder braking, instead of being whipped around in a high side slam. And depending on how hard he fell, there might have been a small chance he could get up and continue riding with a lowside fall, but he would have had some serious road rash. I think the high side fall was the major contributor to his broken bones.
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