Road Bike Racing - Sandy Hook TT Report

The rain blew out, the winds kicked up, the beach was gorgeous in the unexpected sunshine, and a good time was had by all. Official times are still pending, Dr. Will crushed everyone's soul with a 14:30 or so, I rode about 18:30. Official times may be faster, the organizers seemed a bit discombobulated, but as long as they equally discombobulate all the times, there won't be a big problem.

Here's Pcad's Ptap file from today:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/patentcad/SandyHookTT08.jpg

Note the speed change at the turnaround. It was a struggle to maintain 20mph going out, 27mph or so coming back thanks to the northerly wind, which had to be 10mph to as much as 20mph at times. Add 4mph to those speed figures for Dr. W's ride.

In a few weeks when it's snowing at High Point, we'll be able to say: 'Hey, compared to this Sandy Hook was a day at the beach.' And it was.

And she'll have fun fun fun til her Daddy takes her Ptap awaaayyyy......

did you end up using the PT to pace yourself today?

It looks like you were racing by your HR monitor more than your PT from the graph.

Congrats. Looks like a very solid effort. It's amazing to look at the time difference on your out and in-bound legs. Must have been a pretty stiff wind.

The Ptap was very useful. At the outset, I noted I was going too hard (see the first two minutes of that ride) and realized I had to calm down, then I settled into a 300+ watt pace. After the turnaround the Ptap was a constant reminder to keep the hammer down and not get lulled by the tailwind that made me go 27mph. Never looked at my HR until after the race here at home. All I can say is that I buried myself as hard as I could today, and that's what I got. That last few minutes into the headwind were very tough. 290 watt average certainly reflects lower wattage for that second half, I was pretty gassed after grinding into the headwind, but got a little stronger in the last 1.5 miles...

I don't know that that headwind was, but I think it was at least a constant 10mph with gusts well above that.

These TTs are a total blast, it was great seeing Dr. Will, very cool vibe. Everybody is very friendly, helpful, supportive, very little Road Nazi bullsiht (not that there's anything wrong with that). The gorgeous beach was a huge bonus today. I just love riding my TT bike in these events. And hopefully I'll get faster. That is the plan.

thats awesome. now you have some nice numbers to work with too. congrats dude

thats awesome. now you have some nice numbers to work with too. congrats dude

That would be the closest thing to an FTP test I've had. Just loving the PTap.

All you guys were right about everything: riding less and training right to get faster, the PTap, etc. I will show my gratitude to the Road Nazi BF Community by the continual spewage of ever more quantities of Pcad Bullsiht.

Tomorrow: 50+ miles with the local Freds. Next week: Central Park Sunday. Can't wait.

right on man, right on!

Graphs! Congrats as well. Take it easy on the freds tommorrow

I don't think the Freds have too much to worry about from Pcad.

That's a great average there, pcad. Seems like most people were telling you to target 280 or 290. I had you starting at 275, and you whooped the heck out of that. Probably best that you went hardest on the way out anyway (hit the wind hard).

Congrats pcad!

Hope I can use my Ptap as well as you.

Nice Job Pcaddy. My report found here (http://www.pelotoneast.com/showthread.php?p=7498#post7498).

Short version: I won.

Pcad- Awesomeness. Great avg. wattage.

DrWJO - Your position must be insanely aerodynamic. Congrats on your race.

Nice job, man. Looks like this PT thing has you set to make vast improvements.

DrWJO - Your position must be insanely aerodynamic. Congrats on your race.

No kidding, right? 14 min @ 315 into the headwind, 25.5 mph?

All these TT reports have me pretty stoked about doing them now. Especially after today's race :)

No kidding, right? 14 min @ 315 into the headwind, 25.5 mph?

All these TT reports have me pretty stoked about doing them now. Especially after today's race :)

8 mins. into the headwind, 6 mins with the tailwind. Either way it's scary fast.

True enough.. either way, 25.5 mph into the headwind @ 315 is super aero... like.. super super aero.

Dr. W:

http://www.motorauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/Ferrari/F430/Novitec/novi_main_1.jpg

Pcad:

http://www.sageaction.com/jeep.jpg

I am pretty sure the SRM was off today. Either that or my HR was demonstrating a real health problem. I am thinking that the Zero offset (which was screwy today...I could not get it to stabilize) coupled with a slope that for some reason read 28.6 instead of 28.2 resulted in maybe a 40-50 watt difference. I averaged a 186bpm HR (LT 181) for the last 6 minutes. Something tells me I was pushing more than 328 watts (last week I averaged 349 watts at a HR of 175 or so for 15 minutes. There was less wind and it was a slower overall speed).

I am aero, but not THAT aero.

Dr. W. Motor:

http://store-garage34.locasite.com.br/loja/images/GMP-12498827.jpg

PCad Motor:

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00BevEliZIHtqzM/Single-Phase-Electric-Motor-with-Resistance-Start-Nema-Standard-SBD56-160-4-.jpg

Quit selling yourself short Pcad. Just realize that you will continue to improve and that's what counts. I think you're doing great, man.


(Yeah, and I know. I must be back on my meds, right? Maybe. :) )

Riding a TT with your pal Dr. W. who smokes you by 6+ mph on the same course is an excellent way to get in touch with your Self Loathing subby. If you did that you wouldn't need meds.

Here is the Pecking Order in Cycling:

Pros

Lower Level Pros

Fast Racer Dudes (the ones who race)

Slow Racer Dudes (the pack fodder)

Freds

Sub Freds

Pre Freds

Dick Pound

Doc Ray

I have elevated into the Pack Fodder group, the highest I ever got was the group just above that, and only on a good day, on rare occasion. That's when I was one of those 36 year old kids.

Dr. W. is a Fast Racer Dude. The only reason he's not a pro is the pay sucks too hard. I have my cycling fantasies like most of you, but any delusions have been driven out of me on painful race at a time. And I still love it. Go figure.

^^lol

Riding a TT with your pal Dr. W. who smokes you by 6+ mph on the same course is an excellent way to get in touch with your Self Loathing subby. If you did that you wouldn't need meds.

Here is the Pecking Order in Cycling:

Pros

Lower Level Pros

Fast Racer Dudes (the ones who race)

Slow Racer Dudes (the pack fodder)

Freds

Sub Freds

Pre Freds

Dick Pound

Doc Ray

I have elevated into the Pack Fodder group, the highest I ever got was the group just above that, and only on a good day, on rare occasion. That's when I was one of those 36 year old kids.

Dr. W. is a Fast Racer Dude. The only reason he's not a pro is the pay sucks too hard. I have my cycling fantasies like most of you, but any delusions have been driven out of me on painful race at a time. And I still love it. Go figure.

I'll be having my moments tomorrow, Pcad: pain, questioning myself and state of mind, self-doubt, self-loathing, the whole nine. I plan on making a hurting happen - whether it be me or the rest.

Bear in mind that it is always preferable for racers to help their opponents get in touch with their Self Loathing on any given day. Don't be concerned, Bike Racing will always help you find your own sooner or later. All of this is easier during Racing Season if you embrace Universal Loathing.

Add me to the list and stick me below DocRay.

Here is my motor.

http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Wright/Images/WrightHeloVert_lg.jpg

Quit selling yourself short Pcad. Just realize that you will continue to improve and that's what counts. I think you're doing great, man.


seriously man, all your doing is making sure I will never TT because you are already putting out the same wattage I am and I cant handle that yet.

seriously man, all your doing is making sure I will never TT because you are already putting out the same wattage I am and I cant handle that yet.

That's one less guy who will be faster than me on Race Day.

Congrats DWJO! Amazing speed there.

Looks like a good TT weekend for the BFers

I must confess that Dr. W. is the fastest local guy I've ever seen. Ooofaaaa, somebody Fedex him to the Giro before he kills everybody in NJ.

Any idea where you placed?

Regardless, well done.

Any idea where you placed?

Regardless, well done.

Not yet. No official results. I'm hoping I was mid pack in the 45+, but I doubt I was that high up. The 45+ guys are fast. On the other hand only one guy passed me (nobody else was very close) and I passed one other guy, so that's a hopeful sign. If 3-4 guys pass you in a TT with 30 second gaps, you might have a problem.

According to the Training with a Power Meter Book, if you take my 290 watts for nearly 19 minutes (very close to their 20 minute TT test) you'd get an FTP of about 275, which divided by my weight (about 79 kilos) gets you 3.48 watts/kg, which on their chart is just above Cat 4/low Cat 3 level. So that's mid-USCF I suppose. Very encouraging, I think I'm getting faster. Sadly I'm about as aero as a brick. Oh well. But that does explain my ability to sit in the with 35+ animals. So I have that going for me.

It's fun trying meine kleine Road Nazi scum. Let's all get together some time and do a hit of Lactic Acid. Not for nothing, but 3+ years ago I was 35 lbs heavier and sucking down oxycontin like Pez. This is better. I don't care how slow I am. I'm faster than I thought I'd ever, ever, ever, ever be again. Dr. W. won the TT today, but I don't think he's more psyched than me. Plus it's fun shooting the BF **** with him before the race.

Here is the Pecking Order in Cycling:

Pros

Lower Level Pros

Fast Racer Dudes (the ones who race)

Slow Racer Dudes (the pack fodder)


You missed a lot of groups there. No offense but I think there are a bunch more out there.

Let's say I'm pack fodder (I can be on a good day). Cat 3 fodder.

There are guys who just annihilate me - they bridge 30 second gaps alone to breaks and such. 650 watt 60 second efforts. Top 5 at Fitchburg, good enough to be respectable in the pros in the TT. Let's call them (him) Cat 2s.

He goes up against some guys and gets whomped, just smeared on the ground like the dog doo you just stepped in. Like by the guy who soloed out of the Elite Nationals field with 8 miles to go, bridged a 45 second gap alone in 3 miles, then pull the 4 man break (5 including him) to the finish, right down to leading out the sprint, and taking 3rd. Let's call him a Cat 1.

He goes and does Tour of CT with some lack luster wanna be Euro pros. The closest to Europe they get is they ride Campy, sometimes. Best race he does, he finishes with the field, 22nd place. The domestic pros spank everyone, owning the race. Let's call them entry level pros. They make, apparently under $10k/year in salary, some as much as 50-75k.

They go to Philly. A training ride for euro studs, an A race for the domestics. The domestic team that spanked has a flat tire on the PARADE lap. The guy can't get back on. Team sends two guys back. All three are struggling like mad on the PARADE laps. They barely make it on before the racing starts. They get destroyed as in DEE-Stroyed. In contrast a less domestic, more international team crashes a couple guys, they get up and get back into the race no sweat. Let's call those guys... good domestic pros.

Their star rider gets in a break, gets 2nd at Philly. He's good, like really good. And when the Euro boys show up, he typically struggles. Not spanked struggles but he doesn't win anything (his words). The good Euro guys, let's call them bottom of the barrel Euro pros.

The bottom of the barrel Euro boys fly back over the pond. Enter a race like Paris Roubaix, if they can. They barely make it to the Arenberg Forest, forget about being in the hunt for the win. They can't chase at the end, no legs. Their stronger teammates do that. Those stronger teammates are the strong domestiques.

The guys they pull, the guys that win the races, they're good Classics riders.

Those guys start entering races that take more than a week to finish. Suddenly they're not "good" anymore. They've been demoted to "strong domestique". Because now they work for a stronger breed of rider, the "Grand Tour riders". Go with all the major moves every day for 2 or 3 weeks. TT as well as a great TT racer. Climb as well as a great climber. Forget about sprinting, it's the one thing they don't do too much. Who needs to sprint when your competition is behind by minutes, not milliseconds. They get a nice 15th or 10th or 5th. They're Contenders.

However, they finish minutes and minutes behind the top echelon of racers. They miss the moves. They can't TT like the top guys can. And so they lose. They may be Contenders but they are Losers. The ones that stand on the podium?

They're Good.

I was talking with this guy who's won Philly before he won Philly. I asked him what his strengths were.

"Climbing", he replied.
"Climbing?"
"Well, like climbs over 15k. Shorter than that, I can't climb."
"What do you mean, shorter than that. 10k isn't a climb?"
"Well, one time I was climbing, I thought I was riding well, and I turn and who's climbing beside me? Olaf Ludwig (think Boonen or Petacchi or McEwen or Backsted). Pros can climb, all of them, even the sprinters. You have to go 10-15k before the sprinters start getting tired."
"Oh."

At our humble Bethel race the local 1s and 2s were kicking the snot out of each other week after week. One team, at the bottom of the domestic team barrel, sent in ONE rider. He rode at the front and literally rode everyone off his wheel. After the first lap five guys were on his wheel. After the second lap the guy who got 3rd at Elite Nationals was on his wheel, no one else. Third lap he was alone. He lapped the field in 15 laps, made the p123 field look like a bunch of Cat 5s. They were going a magnitude slower (i.e. like 3-4s go slower than p123s) than the ONE guy the good team sent.

I'm so glad I'm just a 3.

cdr

cdr, how many watts did you average typing that last post?

I put my money on the '425' box.

heh I was going to just cut it and put it in my blog but I'm too tired.

I had a Universe poster when I was a kid. You know, Earth, then a line to a picture of the solar system (where Earth is). Then a line from the solar system to something. Then a line from something to something bigger. And so on and so forth. I'd lose my footing about 3 or 4 lines in, just couldn't comprehend it.

Ditto fast riders. Fast riders are sooooo fast, and yet, the really fast riders are sooo much faster. I saw Sean Yates at Philly but I didn't believe it was him (he was on the short laps at the end, and he won, solo). I thought it was just the motorcycles buzzing by at 40 mph. Only the last lap I realized that, no, the cops aren't doing laps of the finishing circuit alone, there's actually a racer in there.

cdr

In retrospect the organization of this event was appalling. The start line seemed very disorganized, race numbers were totally out of order with starters, they weren't holding everyone's bike up, just a joke. There's a rumor on the Westwood Velo discussion board that all the times are screwed up. The didn't let a couple of pre-registered guys who drove two hours to this stupid race start because they F'd it up. It was impossible to get start times from the idiot college kids who seemed to be running the friggin race.

In comparison the other two TTs I've been to were run like swiss clocks. The pinheads to run the Sandy Hook TT should figure it out or not waste everyone's time. It's too hard to go to these stupid races (me and my pal drove 4 hours for 20 minutes of racing) and we are all paying entry fees. I will be communicating this disgust to the race organizers, USA Cycling and the NJ cycling authorities.

In retrospect the organization of this event was appalling. The start line seemed very disorganized, race numbers were totally out of order with starters, they weren't holding everyone's bike up, just a joke. There's a rumor on the Westwood Velo discussion board that all the times are screwed up. The didn't let a couple of pre-registered guys who drove two hours to this stupid race start because they F'd it up. It was impossible to get start times from the idiot college kids who seemed to be running the friggin race.

In comparison the other two TTs I've been to were run like swiss clocks. The pinheads to run the Sandy Hook TT should figure it out or not waste everyone's time. It's too hard to go to these stupid races (me and my pal drove 4 hours for 20 minutes of racing) and we are all paying entry fees. I will be communicating this disgust to the race organizers, USA Cycling and the NJ cycling authorities.

myself and cslone did a tt 2 years ago were timing got jacked up. i was pissed but it was only a 10 min. drive.

Back in my very brief officiating days, I was amazed when I received praise for being able to correctly write down finishing times. It's really not that hard. Synchronize watches. Have your start time list. Send people off at correct time. At the finish, have at least one spotter (maybe two) calling race numbers at the finish while official writes times / numbers. With a simple excel program, plug in said numbers / start / finish times, and let Bill Gates work his magic. It ain't rocket science.

All this to say, I am amazed at how people don't just sort of screw up some time trials, but really really screw them up.

The organization did seem to be lacking this year. At least last year the numbers were in order. And the dude holding the bikes at the start almost dropped me before the official started counting down. Though we couldn't have asked for better weather this year.

I took a few photos of this Time Trial. Anyone interested can check them out in my Sandy Hook TT gallery HERE. (http://www.cyclingcaptured.com/gallery/4659976_LKtDD)

myself and cslone did a tt 2 years ago were timing got jacked up. i was pissed but it was only a 10 min. drive.


Yeah, I can't believe the sheer number of drive times I see on here. I raced 30+ times last year and never drove more than 1 hour.

My limit is 2 hours each way; generally 90 mins or less.

Just the cold hard facts... (http://www.truesport.com/rzone/racereports/report.asp?recid=801)

Pcad...give yourself more credit. You did better than you thought.

You need a pair of these shoes...guaranteed to take 3 seconds off your time.;)

and the NJ cycling authorities.

When I was a junior in CRCA living near Princeton, the NJ Cycling Authorities were a couple of guys that were about 5'10" and weighed about 250 and one of them was named Vito. "And dis is my brudda, Rocky"

"Welcome to Joisey cycling...youze guyze wanna race, do ya?"

"Youze got complaints?"

;)

The times are all screwed up, you probably can add 30 secs to my 'official time' (PowerTap said 18:30, I think that may be right). What's important to me is the relative position in my group, so 29/39 is lower than I hoped to finish, but the headwind killed me for aero reasons. I'll be working on that of course: the only way to get better at TTs is to do them, that was only my 3rd, in each case my time puts me in the lower 1/3 of the 45+ but right in the middle of the 4/5s. My goal is to move into the top half of the 45+.

I hope to do that @ the High Point Hill Climb TT in early May (5.5 mi, 1200 vertical foot climb). I finished in a similar position to this at that race last year, but for 2008 I'm not coming off illness (I barely made to that race last year), I'm 5-8 pounds lighter, and my 1 mile uphill intervals are 1-2 mins. faster in workouts, all attributable to regular racing each week. That could help me do a sub-25 minute ride @ High Point, which would put me in the top half. Looking forward to it, my confidence level is much higher for that race this year. Part of that is learning how to suffer in TTs, I feared it at first, but I'm getting a feel for it, the race adrenaline makes it kind of fun believe it or not.

Note to RW: Don't be pissing on NJ or we'll have to come and break your knees.

Note about my body weight: I don't weigh myself, it's too depressing, but I'm starting to see ribs through my pecs and there is much closer to zero tire around my hips, so I'm almost there. When my Mom looks at me and says 'you're too thin!' in an alarmed tone of voice, I will be there. Who the F needs a scale? Another hopeful sign for me: I dropped the fast Freds and the Expert MTB dude on the short 400 meter hills so bad yesterday that if the hills were 800 meters long I would have been out of cellphone range, and I was only going about 85%.

I'm starting to actually regret I didn't sign up for the Bear Mountain race. Don't worry I'll get over it.

The times are all screwed up, you probably can add 30 secs to my 'official time' (PowerTap said 18:30, I think that may be right). What's important to me is the relative position in my group, so 29/39 is lower than I hoped to finish, but the headwind killed me for aero reasons. I'll be working on that of course: the only way to get better at TTs is to do them, that was only my 3rd, in each case my time puts me in the lower 1/3 of the 45+ but right in the middle of the 4/5s. My goal is to move into the top half of the 45+.

I hope to do that @ the High Point Hill Climb TT in early May (5.5 mi, 1200 vertical foot climb). I finished in a similar position to this at that race last year, but for 2008 I'm not coming off illness (I barely made to that race last year), I'm 5-8 pounds lighter, and my 1 mile uphill intervals are 1-2 mins. faster in workouts, all attributable to regular racing each week. That could help me do a sub-25 minute ride @ High Point, which would put me in the top half. Looking forward to it, my confidence level is much higher for that race this year. Part of that is learning how to suffer in TTs, I feared it at first, but I'm getting a feel for it, the race adrenaline makes it kind of fun believe it or not.

Note to RW: Don't be pissing on NJ or we'll have to come and break your knees.

The thing about TT's is holding that static position which is core strength. Road racing, you are moving around. TT, not. But you've already surmised that, I am sure.

Joisey...shoot, I lived there for 17 years. But I lived in the good part (Princeton). Raced for the oldest bike shop in the United States.

The thing about TT's is holding that static position which is core strength. Road racing, you are moving around. TT, not. But you've already surmised that, I am sure.

Joisey...shoot, I lived there for 17 years. But I lived in the good part (Princeton). Raced for the oldest bike shop in the United States.

How appropriate.

I can relate.

How appropriate.

I can relate.


Dude...if you were a bike racer when I lived in Jersey, in the 60's and 70's, and you were any good, this was the place to be. (http://koppscycle.net/page.cfm?PageID=59) This was the hub of CRCA racing. A ton of us went to national events, even overseas and to Canada before it was "fashionable".

They taught you how to race. From day 1.

'In the 60's & 70's?' Here was my bike in the 60's:

http://www.antiquewhs.com/2005012.jpg