Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Rear ends for fixed.

Which is better, rear facing (track ends) or forward facing (road dropouts)? I'm having a frame built specially for fixed by Woodrup and as I see it road ends are better for easier wheel removal and less brake shoe adjustment. Is there a reason so many fixed frames used on the road have track ends?

The track drop outs make it easier to get the chain tight enough. However, I agree with George in that if you are going to run a rear brake, the posistion of the rear wheel needs to be constant.

you can run a rear brake just as easily with track dropouts as with regular road dropouts. brake shoe position is adjustable for a reason. will forward facing dropouts make rear brake adjustments easier? yessir.

also, you see a lot of track bikes on the road because a) track frames are PIMP, and b) the rear-facing dropouts are safer for a fixed gear bike. if your rear wheel isn't tight enough it could slip forward and actually OUT of the forward facing dropouts, which would be bad. rear facing dropouts also make your rear wheel a little less stealable, because you have to take the chain off to the the rear wheel off the bike, and if you're running a really short chain, it's hard to do that if the bike is locked with both wheels on the ground.

The brake pad adjustment thing really only seems to be a problem if you have a flip flop hub and actually use it. Otherwise you only need to adjust your pads when you set up for a particular gear.
I run a rear brake and I dig my track ends. :)

If you plan to run a couple of gear combos, you might want to use the track ends. The slots are longer than on road ends and you will have a better shot at not having to change the chain length just because you went from a 17t to a 16t

OMG!! CHUCK!

you just rocked my world!

seriously! i can't believe i never thought of that before!

now i can put my wheel with a 16T on my other bike that uses a 17T!!

I know on my bike I have a 17 and 19 tooth cog on the rear wheel with track dropouts I have no problem running either one with the same chain so definately does come in handy.

......but how much shift are we talking about between a 16 & 17......1/4"???...off the top of my head...?

I don't know how much the change is but on my road frame i have to change chain length for even a 1t change.

......but how much shift are we talking about between a 16 & 17......1/4"???...off the top of my head...?

a one tooth change is noticeable. if you're on a road bike with a closely spaced cassette, sometimes one tooth change is all you need to accomplish whatever you wanted to accomplish by shifting... WORD

Legalize I think fixxer is refering to the space difference, that the rear wheel has to move back in the dropouts when adding/removing one tooth from a cog you are using. I don't know exact distance but I know it is more then 1/4"

Legalize I think fixxer is refering to the space difference, that the rear wheel has to move back in the dropouts when adding/removing one tooth from a cog you are using. I don't know exact distance but I know it is more then 1/4"

oh i get it...he meant a 1/4" change in the drop, not a 1/4" change in the gear inches.....1/4"-1/2" sounds about right in that case!

I just got my first flat in rear tire...

Is the only way to remove a rear wheel with track ends by removing the chainring to loosen the chain?

I don't agree with some of the points that have beem raised in this thread.

I don't believe rear facing dropouts are safer. In the event of a catastrophic track nut failure (how often do those happen??), one side will come forward while the other stays put, possibly sending the rear wheel into a chainstay and the bike into a skid, and/or dropping the chain. Doesn't matter whether the dropouts are front or rear facing. Yes both track nuts might go kablooie at the same time; but the odds of that happening are real real slim.

Also, nice long front facing dropouts (like Campy 1010s) accomodate gear changes just fine. I bet that mine could handle a 2t change and 1t works with lots of room to spare.

Finally its easy to tension a chain with front facing dropouts. I modded a Surly Tuggnut to work with my 1010s---it works perfect and it took all of a minute of filing to do.

I just got my first flat in rear tire...

Is the only way to remove a rear wheel with track ends by removing the chainring to loosen the chain?

No..loosen the track nuts and move the wheel forward in the slots to loosen the chain enough so that you can derail it from the chainring. When the chain is derailed you will be able to pull your wheel all the way out.

On the other hand, your chain may be so short that your axle is positioned all the way forward in the slots, thus preventing you from sliding it forward any further. If that is the case, then you need to "break" the chain with a chain tool (i.e. remove one of the pins in the chain), so that you can take off the chain. Putting an extra link in the chain will move your axle back 1/2".

you can run a rear brake just as easily with track dropouts as with regular road dropouts. brake shoe position is adjustable for a reason. will forward facing dropouts make rear brake adjustments easier? yessir.

also, you see a lot of track bikes on the road because a) track frames are PIMP, and b) the rear-facing dropouts are safer for a fixed gear bike. if your rear wheel isn't tight enough it could slip forward and actually OUT of the forward facing dropouts, which would be bad. rear facing dropouts also make your rear wheel a little less stealable, because you have to take the chain off to the the rear wheel off the bike, and if you're running a really short chain, it's hard to do that if the bike is locked with both wheels on the ground.

Best of both worlds - and adds some advantages: sliding (vertical) dropouts! No risk of wheel falling out, and once you set the dropouts according to your drivetrain, no problems with brakes. Additional bonus: if you use disk brakes, they'll stay correctly aligned, no matter where the dropouts are, no matter how you set up your drivetrain.

If you plan to run a couple of gear combos, you might want to use the track ends. The slots are longer than on road ends and you will have a better shot at not having to change the chain length just because you went from a 17t to a 16t

If the difference in teeth is only 2, forward-facing dropouts won't prevent you from setting the chain straight: the chainline becomes shorter by only 3 mm for each added tooth (be it on the sprocket or chainring).

I just got my first flat in rear tire...

Is the only way to remove a rear wheel with track ends by removing the chainring to loosen the chain?

I don't own a frame with rear dropouts, but I would think that you'd just loosen the rear axle/QR, push the wheel forward and derail the chain from the chainring by hand. The rest is easy.


EDIT: Sh*t... next time I'll read all the posts in a thread, first:

No..loosen the track nuts and move the wheel forward in the slots to loosen the chain enough so that you can derail it from the chainring. When the chain is derailed you will be able to pull your wheel all the way out.

Well, at least I guessed well!

I would go with track ends unless you plan to run fenders.

I can run a 15t cog and an 18t cog with my track ends without changing the chain length.

the only thing I would say is to get the forward facing rear drop outs with a derrailer hanger and have the builder make it 126mm rear that way it can be spread and squeezed if you go geared or good ole fixed

b) the rear-facing dropouts are safer for a fixed gear bike. if your rear wheel isn't tight enough it could slip forward and actually OUT of the forward facing dropouts, which would be bad.
This has been discussed here before, and the general consensus is that the tire would hit the chainstay and stop the bike before the wheel had a chance to come completely off.

My feeling is that track ends are used because of A) Tradition, B) extra length for adding/subtracting teeth without resizing the chain, and C) the ability to use shorter chainstays.

On my road bike about a month ago. Changed a flat on the real wheel, put her back in quickly, and started hammering to catch up with the gaggle of fools that didn't wait for us. I only went about 20 feet before the rear wheel skidded me to halt. I didn't have the QR tight enough and the tire stopped at my non-drive side chainstay and seat tube. The drive side skewer came out of the dropout and left some awesome scratches on the underside of my chainstay.

Never had it happen to me on a fixie, but yes, I am of the consesus that pedals will stop/wheel will stopped before the wheel smashes against the back of your thighs.

Best of both worlds - and adds some advantages: sliding (vertical) dropouts! No risk of wheel falling out, and once you set the dropouts according to your drivetrain, no problems with brakes. Additional bonus: if you use disk brakes, they'll stay correctly aligned, no matter where the dropouts are, no matter how you set up your drivetrain.


Only if you have a custom set up where the droupouts slide perpendicular to the chainstay(which I have never seen but advocate) or are using discs.


if you can't change one tooth without switching chains then your chain is either the wrong size or your bike was a poor choice for conversion. It does indeed move the axle 1/4".

yup, 1/4"

there are horizontal dropouts out there that (with the right gearing, and maybe a half link) can handle changes of three teeth on a flip flop.

with horizontal dropouts, the headtube and seat tube angles change depending on where the wheel is in the dropouts. at the front, the angles are steeper, in the back they are more relaxed. this is not the case with standard horizontal track ends. this is the only substantial advantage to track ends that i can see. if you tighten your track nuts your wheel wont slip forward.

i'm of the school of thought that many street fixed frames have track ends because people want them to look like track bikes (edit: or, perhaps, occasionally ride them on a track). nothing wrong with that, but i don't believe that there are any real safety or utilitarian advantages.