Since I have gotten several questions about when, what, how much after mentioning in a thread that there would be a Motobecane Ti CX bike - here is the update with pictures
Fantom Cross Team Ti is on the way and will be in about early to mid September; if as booked. Sample is being reviewed by a magazine now and will be featured in August with MSRP of $3995. I of course think this is the nicest and best CX bike under $4000 anywhere. {we will see what others say - but Moto Ti frames so far are being described as 'stunning'. There will be at least 6 Moto Ti tests by assorted mags by Dec - we will see if they all say the frame is stunning as MBA did.}
This bike will be sold by us at half off MSRP or even lower. Early booking will be at a bigger discount.
Based on requests and comments on BF and other forums:
1 - Ultegra level so parts are not too much to replace
2 - Bullet Proof wheels
3 - disc tabs on fork and frame
4 - eyelets and a rr rack braze on
based on my own ideas
Bi Oval DT for stiff responsive frame with S stays AND custom TT so that underside is totally flat for caring bike - Top of TT is a semi point with cables run alone top. This frame is comfortable and quick at the same time - and of course will not the durability of Ti. This is a true CX frame so no cables on DT like some brands do on 'cyclo cross'. {I understand that purists do not need or want eyelets or disc tabs -- but they only make the bike illegal to race if disc are mounted.}
We have 3 CX bikes now and are adding 6 more; so we are serious about cyclo cross. The Fantom Cross Team Ti is the highest level one at this time [ but we may add a ubber light version for next year]
I normally don't comment on BD bikes but front and rear disc tabs and carbon forks - nice! Especially now that redline seem to have stopped making their Ti team CX bike.
Just a pity you didn't put in a seat post binder bolt facing forward similar to nicolai and kona (I hate cleaning mud out of rear facing binder bolts).
edit: clarity
sfcrossrider
Very nice. It would be nice for the "light" version to have no disc/rack mounts.
knucklesandwich
Can you elaborate on the other 5 new ones you're coming out with?
BlastRadius
It does look pretty stunning. I agree with markhr about the forward facing binder and slot and I'd add one more about binder-mounted cable stop, yuck! It makes for a weird angle for the cable to pull the straddle wire.
*edit: Maybe it's just that particular binder-cable-stop. On other models, the angle looks fine.
scattered73
Beautiful, but on my copy clerk wage $3995 is not going to happen. Though most ti is out of my price range.
dirtyphotons
any chance of a frame only option? if so i'm interested in early booking.
TimJ
Why integrated headset?
mrbubbles
With disc tabs, the rear wheel spacing should be 135mm, if not, you're making it redundant to even add the disc tabs in the first place.
Frameset only option would be nice as well.
dirtyphotons
Beautiful, but on my copy clerk wage $3995 is not going to happen. Though most ti is out of my price range.
fine print my friend. mike says it'll be at least half off msrp.
Ziemas
With disc tabs, the rear wheel spacing should be 135mm, if not, you're making it redundant to even add the disc tabs in the first place.
Frameset only option would be nice as well.
+1 on both counts.
serac
I'm want in on this one.
Stickney
I must concur, very interesting, both as full-bike and potential frameset.
bsyptak
I think Mike said something about a frameset option and $900ish with fork if I remember correctly.
I would estimate he will sell quite a few of them if an entire bike can be had for south of $2k.
bonechilling
Why integrated headset?
Not that I was going to buy one, but this would be a deal-breaker for me. I don't want an "investment"-grade bike with a headset that will eventually wear out and render the frame useless.
scattered73
fine print my friend. mike says it'll be at least half off msrp.
Don't know how I missed that?
bsyptak
Habanero (frame $889 shipped) has a similar frame but no disc tabs and standard head tube for standard headset, plus a nice canti bridge in the back instead of the one that hangs off the seatpost binder. For me, disc tabs are undesireable because it adds too much weight to the bike with the addition of all the machinery involved. Plus, unless you want to drop some serious cash for 2 disc wheelsets (road & cross), you'll have to change tires a lot when you want to ride it as a road bike. And who wants disc brakes on a road bike? Cantis work fine and they look better too.
I built up a Habanero to 19.5 lbs with cross wheels/tires and a pound less with my road wheels.
TimJ
Not that I was going to buy one, but this would be a deal-breaker for me. I don't want an "investment"-grade bike with a headset that will eventually wear out and render the frame useless.
Yeah. A titanium frame is going to last you a lifetime... unless the lack of bearing cups is too destructive on the head tube and then you're screwed.
bikesdirect_com
Can you elaborate on the other 5 new ones you're coming out with?
Yes
in general
we had 1 CX bike about a year ago
now we have
MOTOBECANE
FANTOM CX
FANTOM CROSS
FANTOM CROSS PRO
and ARE ADDING IN MOTO
FANTOM CX TRIP [LIKE CX WITH TRIPLE AND STREET TIRES]
FANTOM CROSS UNO [4130 SS]
FANTOM OUTLAW [HAS DISC BRAKES - ILLEGAL TO RACE]
FANTOM CROSS 853 [GUESS THE TUBING]
FANTOM CROSS TEAM Ti [ABOVE]
FANTOM CROSS Ti SL [SHLD BE SUB 17 RACE VERSION]
plus adding
WINDSOR CYCLO [105 20 SPD ALUMINUM]
DAWES CYCLO [LOW END AL 16 SPEED]
MERCIER MULTI VELO [4130 18-SPD CX]
we like cyclo cross
and intend to offer choices
DAWES
bikesdirect_com
Not that I was going to buy one, but this would be a deal-breaker for me. I don't want an "investment"-grade bike with a headset that will eventually wear out and render the frame useless.
We do not think this headset will ever wear out
and intergrated was picked for fork options
it is very hard today to find nice forks made in standard headset - can be done - but really limits choices
I think intergrated HS is in line with industry standards [even though as an old guy; I kinda like standard HS - but I like some other old stuff too that is questionable]
If the market results in lots of feedback on this issue
we may offer more bikes with standard headsets
bikesdirect_com
With disc tabs, the rear wheel spacing should be 135mm, if not, you're making it redundant to even add the disc tabs in the first place.
Frameset only option would be nice as well.
Spacing is 130 [no need to use 135]
and we will stock lots of wheels that are 700c / 130mm / with disc hubs
growing market as we see it
our new Fantom Cross Outlaw comes with 130mm and Avid BB5
dragonmg
FANTOM OUTLAW [HAS DISC BRAKES - ILLEGAL TO RACE]
For UCI pros you mean, not illegal to race for amateurs or age-groupers.
Raakahanu
Definately interested. Outline decals on the dt and something more minimalistic on the tt - it's Ti.
What fork is that?
bikesdirect_com
Definately interested. Outline decals on the dt and something more minimalistic on the tt - it's Ti.
What fork is that?
We tried the Outline look on a sample of the le Champion Team Ti
I thought it would be good - but it was way to plain
even for me and I like clean bikes
So to keep the look consistant
we are going with the straight forward simple BLACK with White Trim on all 2009 Ti bikes
we are doing 7 or 8 Ti bikes in 2009
and plan to go to a dozen or more by 2010
Fork is built for us to match the Ti Cross frame
very nice fork, I think
dirtyphotons
any word on frameset only?
thanks for the clarifications mike.
bikesdirect_com
any word on frameset only?
thanks for the clarifications mike.
frameset would be $995
pre book on bike will be $1795
do you think frameset would go - since you could get entire bike at such a low price?
if so
i may get some; i can check on timing
as complete bikes are already on order
dirtyphotons
hard to say if you'd sell many, but i gotta figure that you'd sell some. an ultegra group plus wheels is a screaming deal for just 800 bucks more, i think a lot of people would swing that way. i just think you'd find some people interested who could swing a grand but just can't come up with $1795. as to how many, or if it's worth your while, your guess is better than mine :)
sfcrossrider
frameset would be $995
pre book on bike will be $1795
do you think frameset would go - since you could get entire bike at such a low price?
if so
i may get some; i can check on timing
as complete bikes are already on order
It wouldn't make sense for someone to buy the frame set (IMO). Like others have said, the extra $800 gets you soooo much more for your money.
mrbubbles
^^^
Doesn't matter, people will have their preferences in components. Paying $800 more means spending more time selling the parts, or clogging up more room in storage.
As for the disc brakes, if you haven't built the frame yet, please have the mounts on the chain stay instead of the seat stay. The reason being: it's cleaner looking (a bonus for the purist), and much better market option for rack and fender mounts.
arctic hawk
Yes
in general
we had 1 CX bike about a year ago
now we have
MOTOBECANE
FANTOM CX
FANTOM CROSS
FANTOM CROSS PRO
and ARE ADDING IN MOTO
FANTOM CX TRIP [LIKE CX WITH TRIPLE AND STREET TIRES]
FANTOM CROSS UNO [4130 SS]
FANTOM OUTLAW [HAS DISC BRAKES - ILLEGAL TO RACE]
FANTOM CROSS 853 [GUESS THE TUBING]
FANTOM CROSS TEAM Ti [ABOVE]
FANTOM CROSS Ti SL [SHLD BE SUB 17 RACE VERSION]
plus adding
WINDSOR CYCLO [105 20 SPD ALUMINUM]
DAWES CYCLO [LOW END AL 16 SPEED]
MERCIER MULTI VELO [4130 18-SPD CX]
we like cyclo cross
and intend to offer choices
DAWES
Nice work there!
Will are all the tt be flattened/ovalized on the bottom for shouldering?
bikesdirect_com
Nice work there!
Will are all the tt be flattened/ovalized on the bottom for shouldering?
no
just mainlt the Ti versions
that is new feature for us
I am working on getting AL tube makers to do it
M_S
Ovalized TTubes are something I'm a bit sensitive about being a scrawny kid with ony shoulders. On the one hand, 'cross hurts so much I hardly notice the tube digging into my shoulder, on the othe rhand, why make things difficult? My aluminum bike with ovalized TT is sooo much more comfortable to shoulder than my steel bike. Granted it's also a good 5 pounds lighter. I do think though that steel and titanium need the ovalizing more as those skinny tubes dig into the 'ol shoulder, so it's awesome that the ti cross bikes have that feature.
In terms of frameset desirability, I don't know. Like others have said, it's hard to pass up the Ultegra and goodies for 800 more. Also, at that price for a frameset you can get a Habanero Ti frame, or something really nice and made of steel. Basically it's more competetive than the market for a complete Ti bike for under 2 grand, which you'll basically get to corner.
MillCreek
Mike, could you please elaborate more on the specs of the Fantom Outlaw? Is it by any chance to the same spec level as the Cross Pro, only with discs?
mykrrrr
Any info on the Mercier Multi Velo? I'm looking for an inexpensive steel cyclocross/commuter bicycle. ETA on when it'll be available?
forrest_m
Any idea what the timeframe is for the "pre-book" on this? It sounds like the bikes would be delivered in September, so presumably before then, but are we talking June? August? Thanks.
bigskyTi
Will these be availabe to order with the disk brakes? Are you going to have an option for Campy? How much lighter is the SL frame?
I'm very interested.
rower
How wide can the tire be on the Motobecane Cycle cross Pro? I've seen some cx bikes that use a 38cc tire and
I would like to go at least that wide if possible?
mrbubbles
How wide can the tire be on the Motobecane Cycle cross Pro? I've seen some cx bikes that use a 38cc tire and
I would like to go at least that wide if possible?
When a frame specs says 38cc max, you can definitely fit wider tires than that. The number is just a conservative estimate.
ncramer
Also looking for some clarification on this specific Ti bike.
Is is still on for September delivery? If so, when will presale pricing begin?
With the disc tabs, will there be a disc option at purchase, or will that be aftermarket only?
Are details available on geometry? I need a BIG frame.
Thanks,
Nate
mrtornadohead
I still say NO to integrated headsets. Especially on a Ti frame. Not only does it look ugly but one solid head-on hit and the whole frame is done. Otherwise it's just replacing a fork and headset (OK, front rim, too) which is a piece of cake. So for me, this would be a deal-breaker. But don't worry about me as I don't think I'd be pony-ing up for the Ti model for a few years yet (something about children wanting to be fed and school - all crazy ideas).
Definitely like the flattened top tube - good on you.
+1 for disc tab mounts on chainstay instead of seatstay.
Frameset vs. Complete - dunno about sales niumbers and at only 800 smackers more it IS a heckuva deal but: Someone may want Campy or SRAM or ???. I think it'd be worth it to stick a few frame/forks off to the side in the more popular sizes but I wouldn't devote a lot of space to them, at least in the introductory year run.
cc700
not to bump just for a stupid question...
but from a design stantpoint i see why integrated is potentially flawed, but i haven't heard of it actually happening or any kind of tests being run to see if the headtube is destroyed on an integrated headset frame vs. a traditional or zero-stack frame.
has it ever happened? and what's to prevent the cups from damaging the frame in a hard enough hit? yes pressed cups will have better contact and a lot less wear, but i don't see how the headtube is the breaking point in any frame without first damaging the wheel, fork, and tt and dt.
i read CK's discussion of this and i understand what he's saying, but you'd think with all the racers on integrated headsets, there'd be some failures that could be expressly shown to be from the lack of headset cups in the headtube.
i haven't heard of it happening even once, just a lot of technical speculation.
jollyGreenGiant
Very curious to hear what the spec is for the outlaw, I'm wanting the Pro when they come back in a size 61 but would certainly wait for a disk model that I can put fenders and a rack on... so chainstay mounts of course.
Yes, the perfect New England all weather year round commuter IMO.
rankin116
Very curious to hear what the spec is for the outlaw, I'm wanting the Pro when they come back in a size 61 but would certainly wait for a disk model that I can put fenders and a rack on... so chainstay mounts of course.
Yes, the perfect New England all weather year round commuter IMO.
I've been looking for the same thing for the same reasons.