Fifty Plus (50+) - Trek suing Greg LeMond

I wonder if this has any implications for Trek continuing to sell LeMond bicycles? If so, I wonder if LeMond as a line would even continue to exist ... seeing as how they are pretty much 100% Trek bikes with a different label on them.

Trek sues to end collaboration with bicyclist Greg LeMond

Trek Bicycle Corp. is ending its 13-year collaboration with three-time Tour de France winner Greg LeMond.

The Waterloo bike manufacturer has filed suit in U.S. District Court in Madison to sever the relationship, Trek president John Burke told company employees and reporters, in separate conference calls Tuesday. He said the lawsuit came in response to a 41-page complaint by LeMond, served to Trek on March 20 and expected to be filed in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis. It is similar to a complaint LeMond issued against the company in 2004 and is "filled with information and allegations that are immaterial to the business agreement," Burke said.

"We had high hopes for our partnership with Greg and we are sorry it has come to this," Burke said. "But this troubling pattern of inconsistent business dealings forced us to do this, for the sake of the Trek family — our retailers, employees and customers."

No Trek employees will lose their jobs as a result of the move, Burke said. Of 1,600 employees worldwide, nearly 1,200 are in the U.S., primarily at Trek operations in Waterloo and Whitewater.

BTW, LeMond turns 47 this June. Not too long until he's eligible to join this forum.

BTW, LeMond turns 47 this June. Not too long until he's eligible to join this forum.

We have others on the forum who are his age, but haven't won three TdF. I think we could let him in now if he was so inclined.


Edit: I can't imagine what his life has been like or what it's like now. I am, and always be, grateful for his TdF victories being a big boost to what most people in the U.S. knew/know about cycling. He opened a lot of doors. If I had a wish for him, it would be that he has some peace and contentment with what he has accomplished with his life and will continue to accomplish.

We have others on the forum who are his age, but haven't won three TdF. I think we could let him in now if he was so inclined.

The rule is: one year credit for each TdF you've won. Since he's won three, he just barely qualifies.

Greg hangs out in the Recumbent forum.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z284/JanMM/bentlemond.jpg

It's hard to know what to make of Lemond. He's one of the greatest ever, but he strikes me as a nutcase. His involvement in the Landis case, his accusations against Lance, all seem strange.

Would he be willing, as a BF50, to wear brown socks and bermudas, a mirror, fall over in clipless, and be a Fred like me?

It's hard to know what to make of Lemond. He's one of the greatest ever, but he strikes me as a nutcase. His involvement in the Landis case, his accusations against Lance, all seem strange.Lance's involvement with Ferrari, his intimidation of cyclists that speak out against doping, his dumping Crow when she had breast cancer, his involvement with an Olsen twin; and Landis' attacks on Lemond, his connection to a member of his entourage who tried to intimidate Lemond by threatening to publicize his abuse as a child, his very likely involvement with doping, his lying that it was the booze he drank the night before, his going on the rubber chicken circuit to try and get other cyclists to pay for his defense while he lives in a gated community, and his humiliating his family all made them look like nut cases to me. Let's see, Lemond speaks out against doping and has been forthright about his own life, but that makes him look like a nutcase to you? Einstein was right. Position in time and space does affect perspective.

Greg hangs out in the Recumbent forum.

LOL! That's funny. Sad, but funny.

He should do what he does best and stick to criticizing fellow American TdF winners and leave the 'bents to the bent.

Steve

It's hard to know what to make of Lemond. He's one of the greatest ever, but he strikes me as a nutcase. His involvement in the Landis case, his accusations against Lance, all seem strange.


Strange is a mild way to put it. The only thing he didn't throw in the mix was being taken up by a UFO.

We'll see if Greg knows as much about contract law as he knew about cycling. Otherwise, many have ridden in the TdF but few have won, and fewer still ever enjoy victory in the courtroom where winning is a contradiction in terms from the start when it comes to describing the end result for both parties in most litigations.

Now it's really time for me to unload that bike

Now it's really time for me to unload that bike

I'm holding onto mine, maybe one day it will be a collector's item!

I think mine's already a collector's item. LeMond / Trek calls it a "classic," but i call it an "instant antique." I love my LeMond and hope it never gets trashed -

I'm holding onto mine, maybe one day it will be a collector's item!

+1 I love my LeMond, an '02 Buenos Aires. Be interesting to know some of the details behind the Trek-LeMond divorce.

Lance's involvement with Ferrari, his intimidation of cyclists that speak out against doping, his dumping Crow when she had breast cancer, his involvement with an Olsen twin; and Landis' attacks on Lemond, his connection to a member of his entourage who tried to intimidate Lemond by threatening to publicize his abuse as a child, his very likely involvement with doping, his lying that it was the booze he drank the night before, his going on the rubber chicken circuit to try and get other cyclists to pay for his defense while he lives in a gated community, and his humiliating his family all made them look like nut cases to me. Let's see, Lemond speaks out against doping and has been forthright about his own life, but that makes him look like a nutcase to you? Einstein was right. Position in time and space does affect perspective.

The points you make are why I say it's hard to know what to make of him. He injected himself into the Landis case, made his unusually personal admissions (I've read the report), and then got worked over for it. I understand this is not the first time a business relationship has ended due to personality difference.

It's the kind of situation that makes me glad I'm not rich and famous. Rich would do just fine.

http://www.trekbikes.com/pdf/media/en/03202008_Lemond.pdf makes interesting reading. I don't have time to finish it right now. The contract was between two corporations. Looks like LeMond speaking out personally was attributed to the Lemond corporation by Trek and led to Trek failing to exert adequate efforts to promote the brand, instead relying on Armstrong's rising reputation. Backing the winner without adequately handling obligations under a previous contract. Should be amusing. I'll get through the rest of the complaint, generic as it seems so far, later in the day.

OK, I've read through the whole thing. I like it. Seems pretty good to me. LeMond's remarks don't seem to have hurt Trek and aren't anything new. Trek does seem to be in the middle between Armstrong and LeMond. Trek does seem to have failed to promote the LeMond brand in a gross manner and to have favored Armstrong. Wondered why the brand never got the press I thought it should, especially in Europe. Unless LeMond lied somewhere along the line, or directly disparaged Trek products or the company, or an impact on Trek can be demonstrated, then Trek might want to think about settling this thing. Failure to exert best efforts isn't a light thing. I'm involved in such a case at the moment as plaintiff.

Will be fun to watch.

I love my 853 steel Lemond. All this crap won't change the quality of the bikes that say "Lemond" on the sides. Actually, I've always liked Greg too.

I know a lot of folks here don't go to some (cough, cough) other forums here, so I'm reposting the link to this podcast here. It certainly changed my opinion of Greg Lemond.

http://www.competitorradio.com/shows/47Competitors-GregLeMond-08-22-06(1hr12min).mp3

Be advised, its an hour long, but well worth a listen

LeMond's remarks don't seem to have hurt Trek and aren't anything new. Trek does seem to be in the middle between Armstrong and LeMond.

Reading the summons I'd have to say it is aimed at Armstrong at least as much as at Trek (probably more so).

So we can add LeMond vs Trek to Cip vs Ball and UCI vs ASO....what a sport.

How 'bout that Oscar Friere?

Yeah, it's pretty cool how these things end up in court. Buy out competitors brand names, then let them die while you have the name tied up. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

How 'bout that Oscar Friere?

Reminds me why I love this sport regardless of the silliness that surrounds it.

The Tour of Flanders was pretty freakin fantastic too.

Maybe the season will turn out OK even with the ASO/UCI circus in town.

I agree w/Skinny-Mr.Big Stuff's above,

Well, except that he dumped Ms.Crow before she knew she had cancer, but whatever.

I have to say I like Greg better than Lance, but maybe that's because I'm an Old Guy too. For TREK, remember the first Lemond bikes were built by the Clark Kent Co. and Greg kind of screwed Clark Kent when he signed with TREK. But that was long ago (relatively speaking).

Rick / OCRR

We'll see if Greg knows as much about contract law as he knew about cycling. Otherwise, many have ridden in the TdF but few have won, and fewer still ever enjoy victory in the courtroom where winning is a contradiction in terms from the start when it comes to describing the end result for both parties in most litigations.I don't know Greg's entire history of legal cases regarding his business, but I have never heard of him losing a case in court. The only other case that comes immediately to mind was his case against Pacific Cycles was it(?), for underpromoting his products, and I recollect he won that. If he believes that TREK has not fulfilled their contractual obligations to him, then he is obligated to his business to seek recourse. I am glad to see Greg taking a stand instead of just letting people roll over him, if that is what has happened.

The points you make are why I say it's hard to know what to make of him. He injected himself into the Landis case, made his unusually personal admissions (I've read the report), and then got worked over for it. I understand this is not the first time a business relationship has ended due to personality difference.Well, you only directly address one of the points I made, and that by saying that Lemond got worked over by Landis??? Were we watching the same court case? When it was revealed that Landis' team had stooped to that level of personal attack, Landis' credibility took an about face. Landis' credibility was damaged, and Greg's was enhanced. Greg was immediately cast as the sympathetic character victimized by dirty tactics and intimidation. That gave Greg more credibility. If Greg was worked over, why was that dim bulb who took the fall for Landis on the filth they perpetrated asked to leave his team?

hmm how many Trek ads have I seen vs. Lemond ads? I can't say I've seen more than a cursory bit of marketing for Lemond products. Seen a glut of Trek marketing though. Go Greggy!!! I met him in waaay back in the 80's at the Grand Prix de Montréal, he was super nice to the bunch of us bike messengers that had scammed their way into the party.

I know a lot of folks here don't go to some (cough, cough) other forums here, so I'm reposting the link to this podcast here. It certainly changed my opinion of Greg Lemond.

http://www.competitorradio.com/shows/47Competitors-GregLeMond-08-22-06(1hr12min).mp3

Be advised, its an hour long, but well worth a listen

I just finished listening to this podcast. There is a real consistency in what Greg is saying throughout this interview. It comes across as very credible.

Busine$$ is busine$$!

Yes, but where a company is named after an individual, and in a business where endorsements are worth something, the personal and business get blurred in popular perception. Leading to off base discussions.

LeMond seems very consistent and reasonable, if outspoken. Trek knew this going in.

I find the incredible gains in human performance to be remarkable, probably incredible. I can't buy that equipment and training make the difference in oxygen uptake and recovery. Rolling resistance is about the same, weight isn't very different, gearing is a bit wider. Training takes into account physiology better. I'd think we'd get a bit of a bump from those aspects. But the increase in performance is immense. So I suspect Greg's onto the driver for that. I can't see his position as unsupportable.

I can't see the truth as allowing Trek to break a contract. I'd be pissed at LeMond dissing Armstrong if Armstrong were promoting my products. But I'd have expected it.

In contrast, I clearly see the hole where Trek was supposed to promote LeMond bicycles, especially in Europe. I think they missed the boat from a marketing perspective and also from a contractural perspective. Given the antipathy towards Armstrong, Greg's stance might have really helped European sales. A bit schizoid to promote via Lance in the US and Greg in Europe, but that's what I'd have analyzed and considered.

Now it's into hardball, so there it is. We'll see.

According to the complaint, Lemond used his employee discount at Trek to purchase over $2,500,000 (Suggested retail price) worth of bikes and other stuff, which he then resold on the cheap, undercutting Trek's dealers.

The complaint is online at tmz. http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0409_trek_wm.pdf

According to the complaint, Lemond used his employee discount at Trek to purchase over $2,500,000 (Suggested retail price) worth of bikes and other stuff, which he then resold on the cheap, undercutting Trek's dealers.

The complaint is online at tmz. http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0409_trek_wm.pdf

Quite an interesting read. Thanks.

According to the complaint, Lemond used his employee discount at Trek to purchase over $2,500,000 (Suggested retail price) worth of bikes and other stuff, which he then resold on the cheap, undercutting Trek's dealers.

Wow!

You'd think LeMond would have something better to do with his time than to purposefully engage in a long-running attempt to undermine Trek's dealers and his own name branded bikes.

$2.5M is a stunning figure. Even at $5000 (list) a bike, he would have had to purchased 500 bikes to resell. And he probably wasn't making hardly anything off of the sales.

[QUOTE=Tom Bombadil;6483877 bicycles? If so, I wonder if LeMond as a line would even continue to exist ... seeing as how they are pretty much 100% Trek bikes with a different label on them.

I have to disagree with this statement. The frames on LeMond are unlike anything with the Trek name on it. My Versaille and other spine bikes have frames with both steel and carbon fibre tubes is one example. The components may be the same but the frames are not and thats the only thing that separates all brands of quality bikes. They all use components from the same manufacturers.

I have to disagree with this statement. The frames on LeMond are unlike anything with the Trek name on it. My Versaille and other spine bikes have frames with both steel and carbon fibre tubes is one example. The components may be the same but the frames are not and thats the only thing that separates all brands of quality bikes. They all use components from the same manufacturers.

Five years ago what you are saying was true. Now ... not so much. For example Trek dropped the frames that combined steel & carbon from LeMond's line. The current LeMond frames still have a slightly different geometry. Trek kept that aspect from the old LeMond frames. The "LeMond" frames are made in the same factories as the Trek frames, just to slightly different specs. Then those frames are built up with the same parts as Trek's bikes ... including using many of Trek's Bontrager parts - even key components like the forks and wheels are Bontrager.

All of the current frames have been designed out of Trek's headquarters, as they absorbed the separate LeMond design team a few years back.

I suspect one of the reasons why Greg LeMond is upset with Trek is due somewhat to how his line of bikes has lost much of its identity in recent years. For the first several years after the Trek acquisition, the LeMond line retained a significant degree of uniqueness from Trek's bikes. Even as recently as 2006 there were several bikes in the LeMond line that were unlike Trek's bikes. There are still a few.

Here's the latest legal action by LeMond. He's suing an exclusive Montana ski resort.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/07/business/ranch.php

+1 on the Lemond frames being different in the past. In 2005 with trustee approval I set out with a 5k budget to buy a road bike. After much drooling and a lot of test rides I bought a Lemond Zurich for less than half my budget. I almost pulled the trigger on a Litesspeed Tuscany but couldn't really feel the $1500 price difference in the bikes.

My 05 is a spine bike and I absolutely love the bike. What seperates the bikes from Trek's line-up is the longer top tube geometry. The bike works well for folks like me with long torsos. There are some other geometry differences as well that seperate the Lemonds from the Treks.

I considered Trek's top of the line bikes as well for comparison. The Lemond was the most comfortable bike I tested. I'm happy with my decision.

Lemond is so poorly promoted that i thought Trek had dropped them already. It's a shame because the Lemonds are fantastic bikes, throughout the line-up.

Greg has done himself in.... he can't keep his big mouth shut. He started up a cheap like of "LeMond" accessories and put them in K-marts... you think that helped? He was a great Cyclist but he is an idiot.

Trek also owns the rights to the "Klein" brand. They will be revising this label instead of LeMond.

[QUOTE=Tom Bombadil;6508388]Five years ago what you are saying was true. Now ... not so much. For example Trek dropped the frames that combined steel & carbon from LeMond's line. The current LeMond frames still have a slightly different geometry. Trek kept that aspect from the old LeMond frames. The "LeMond" frames are made in the same factories as the Trek frames, just to slightly different specs. Then those frames are built up with the same parts as Trek's bikes ... including using many of Trek's Bontrager parts - even key components like the forks and wheels are Bontrager.

Thats what I said! LeMond frames are not the same as Trek frames. I guess we agree on that.

Here's an interesting, but not particularly well-written, article on this issue:

http://www.startribune.com/business/17390774.html

Note that LeMond bike sales make up 2% of Trek's total revenue. And that 2% includes LeMond himself buying $2.5M worth of LeMond bikes.

Sales figures are always interesting to me. Trek states that they sell roughly 12,000 LeMond bikes a year, worldwide. There are four large Trek dealers near me, two of them are Trek company stores. All four offer several LeMond bikes and all have given me sales pitches on those bikes.

If LeMond goes independent again, I suspect they would lose a large percentage of their dealer base. They would undoubtably pick up some independent dealers who don't carry Trek now, but I think that would be a much lower number than the number of Trek dealers who drop them.