Living Car Free - Is $4 a gallon gas enough??

maybe YOU could be the landlord and have a few houses within biking distance.

huh? why the govt, why not a landlord

well because then people would be buying houses, which you're suggesting is a bad idea. presumably those same landlords would also have jobs which also wouldn't last until their retirement. and what do they do when they lose their job and have to move?

there are landlords and rental properties for the simple reason that people make money on them, from renters. it's certainly been my experience that the primary way you build equity and wealth is by owning, not renting or leasing. indeed it's a different housing market than it was in the past, but for any number of reasons it still makes sense to own a home. and frankly all you're suggesting is that some people own more than one home, to become landlords.

that doesn't make much sense at all.
renters come and renters go. as a landlord you simply collect rent that pays your mortgage AND makes you a profit. Your average landlord probably isn't a person who lives and dies by the whims of one local company. I wouldn't toss and turn at night worrying about a landlord.
You can buy a house wisely that is easy to sell. if you paint yourself into a corner and can't sell your house, you obviously weren't paying attention to your responsibilities to yourself and your investment and would be better off renting and saving money separately.

don't you believe that the responsibilty of maintaining and selling a home is the responsibility of the homeowner?

that doesn't make much sense at all.
renters come and renters go. as a landlord you simply collect rent that pays your mortgage AND makes you a profit. Your average landlord probably isn't a person who lives and dies by the whims of one local company. I wouldn't toss and turn at night worrying about a landlord.
You can buy a house wisely that is easy to sell. if you paint yourself into a corner and can't sell your house, you obviously weren't paying attention to your responsibilities to yourself and your investment and would be better off renting and saving money separately.

wow. so landlords don't have to worry about the local economy, even though we can assume that they're not going to retire from the same company after forty years either? that their finances are somehow more secure by owning more property in a given community all the while suggesting that people should own less and rent?!? okay...

You aren't allowing for external factors here, John. Market factors beyond the owners control can destroy any equity they built. It could be as simple as, for example, an insurance company's decision to no longer insure for Hurricanes, and the values drop in a region as a result of the houses being uninsurable for certain risks except through government administered pools.

Granted, they always had the choice, but when they exercise a choice based on what seem to be favorable market conditions at the time and the situation changes, where is the fault then?


that doesn't make much sense at all.
renters come and renters go. as a landlord you simply collect rent that pays your mortgage AND makes you a profit. Your average landlord probably isn't a person who lives and dies by the whims of one local company. I wouldn't toss and turn at night worrying about a landlord.
You can buy a house wisely that is easy to sell. if you paint yourself into a corner and can't sell your house, you obviously weren't paying attention to your responsibilities to yourself and your investment and would be better off renting and saving money separately.

wow. so landlords don't have to worry about the local economy, even though we can assume that they're not going to retire from the same company after forty years either? that their finances are somehow more secure by owning more property in a given community all the while suggesting that people should own less and rent?!? okay...

most rental house don't sppreciate much roseskunk.
buying a rental house is much different than buying a house to live in.
again, don't fret for landlords. they'll be fine.

You aren't allowing for external factors here, John. Market factors beyond the owners control can destroy any equity they built. It could be as simple as, for example, an insurance company's decision to no longer insure for Hurricanes, and the values drop in a region as a result of the houses being uninsurable for certain risks except through government administered pools.

Granted, they always had the choice, but when they exercise a choice based on what seem to be favorable market conditions at the time and the situation changes, where is the fault then?

If an insurance company won't insure you for hurricane insurance it is for a reason.

there is no good reason to keep wasting resources on homes that have a very good chance of being destroyed again. It makes no sense.''
all the more reason not to use your home as your 401k.

most rental house don't sppreciate much roseskunk.
buying a rental house is much different than buying a house to live in.
again, don't fret for landlords. they'll be fine.

no fretting here my friend, i don't deal with landlords. sorry to hear that you do.

so, about that four dollar gas...

I can tell you the days of working 40 years at one place and retiring are long gone.
any other questions?

You can tell now, how about 20-30 years ago?

no fretting here my friend, i don't deal with landlords. sorry to hear that you do.

so, about that four dollar gas...

''
I have been a landlord, but i own my home outright now.
I have no idea where you got ass-umption. (where did you)?'
'
as far as gas goes.'
renting allows you to relocate within biking distance of your workplace. simple as that

You can tell now, how about 20-30 years ago?

twenty years ago i read an article stating most people would change careers and jobs several times in their life.

i got my "ass-umption" from your statement that said "maybe the majority of people should have never bought a house in the first place. no job is guaranteed forever. They gambled and lost. too bad." i "ass-umed" that since you thought it was such a bad idea for the majority of people to rent, that you had taken your own advice. guess that makes me the ass.

nice talking with you.

i got my "ass-umption" from your statement that said "maybe the majority of people should have never bought a house in the first place. no job is guaranteed forever. They gambled and lost. too bad." i "ass-umed" that since you thought it was such a bad idea for the majority of people to rent, that you had taken your own advice. guess that makes me the ass.

nice talking with you.

If I "lose" i can sell my house. So far i have just switched jobs without moving.
I also have fixed my property up so I can sell easily.

Strategy. It's part of life.

If I "lose" i can sell my house. So far i have just switched jobs without moving.
I also have fixed my property up so I can sell easily.

Strategy. It's part of life.

ah, so you have a job and bought a house. good strategy. and you hope that if you "lose" you can sell the house. also a good strategy. so renting was not the smart thing for you, but would be for the majority of americans? you mean those americans who bought a house and figured they could sell it after they'd fixed it up? uh-huh... i see...bad strategy for them, good strategy for you...sweet.

Do you guys really believe this "I don't have a choice" argument, or is it your another excuse?

You chose your career, you chose the town you live in, you chose the part of town you live in, you chose whether to own or rent...

So many people act as if they had no part in these decisions.

--------

BTW, I agree with FXjohn, most people probably shouldn't own homes. The same people that claim they can only afford to "live" 30 miles from city center could afford a rental in town, and usually have money left over.

All you homeowners out there need to think about what your house costs you. Not just the mortgage, but the paint, and carpet and AC repairs and new roofs and gas to drive into town, etc, etc... Even if you come out ahead in the end, you've traded away freedom of movement for a very poor retirement account.

Once again, "no choice" is still based on the choice they made.

ah, so you have a job and bought a house. good strategy. and you hope that if you "lose" you can sell the house. also a good strategy. so renting was not the smart thing for you, but would be for the majority of americans? you mean those americans who bought a house and figured they could sell it after they'd fixed it up? uh-huh... i see...bad strategy for them, good strategy for you...sweet.

"bought a house" meaning i literally bought it outright. I could survive on half my income if i had to settle for any old job. How many people can say that? yeah I'd say I'm ahead of people who bought too much and hoped for too much out of one job.

People who rent are much freer to move than someone poor shmuck paying a mortgage living paycheck to paycheck. you can't really apply my situation here, roseskunk.

Do you guys really believe this "I don't have a choice" argument, or is it your another excuse?

You chose your career, you chose the town you live in, you chose the part of town you live in, you chose whether to own or rent...

So many people act as if they had no part in these decisions.

--------

BTW, I agree with FXjohn, most people probably shouldn't own homes. The same people that claim they can only afford to "live" 30 miles from city center could afford a rental in town, and usually have money left over.

All you homeowners out there need to think about what your house costs you. Not just the mortgage, but the paint, and carpet and AC repairs and new roofs and gas to drive into town, etc, etc... Even if you come out ahead in the end, you've traded away freedom of movement for a very poor retirement account.

Once again, "no choice" is still based on the choice they made.

+1 - good to see I am not alone here (talk to BarracksSi about this one - whoo boy). In my case I saw a big problem with buying in SF given what might happen that would require me to relocate (or an Earthquake). But since I had money (due to making wise choices like not spending a lot of money on new cars, etc...) I did buy some real estate - in places where I *don't* live but where I felt there was value (Vacation rental properties in places with low real estate values but high vacation rental prices). If I am wrong, I won't blame anyone but myself. So far, so good.

If the Earthquake does come and I kick the bucket, I won't blame god or the devil at the pearly gates, I will admit my stupidity. But if I live, at least I won't be rebuilding the property. Who knows if the renters insurance would cover the bikes though!

Where is that happening?

All I see round these parts (NY) are more and more audacious and large SUV's. The shinier wheels the better

and no, $4 gas isn't anything. I really think It would have to get to $10 or so to substantially impact driving habits. and at $10/gal, the economy would be shot.

High gas prices aren't changing things in New York?

Here, I can assure you that people are making changes. I definately notice people are leaving their trucks in the driveway.

Even at my house, we are driving the little compact Japanese car and leaving the USA made gas-eater in the drive-way. Specifically, we only drive the USA gas-hog maybe once a week at the very most, and that is for short trips with the car full of people/stuff.

On top of that, we are seeing more people bicycle and walk.

Maybe the change isn't so dramatic that the USA has become a wasteland of abandoned automobiles, but we certainly are seeing a change in the transportation choices people are making.

The proof will be in what the local gasoline stations say - are they selling less fuel?

All you homeowners out there need to think about what your house costs you. Not just the mortgage, but the paint, and carpet and AC repairs and new roofs and gas to drive into town, etc, etc... Even if you come out ahead in the end, you've traded away freedom of movement for a very poor retirement account.

Once again, "no choice" is still based on the choice they made.

Not always; In my area it's the exact opposite - I got tired of paying $900 for a rental ~4 miles from work that was falling apart and cost a fortune to heat, so I bought a larger, newer place 23 miles from work, and the mortgage is under $400. It's a condo, so maintenance costs aren't a factor. I'm not planning to use it as an investment (I have actual investments for that). The closest I could get to my work in my price range would be 10 - 15 miles away, and I'd have to wear a bulletproof vest when I rode my bike. Granted, my workplace is right in between two upscale neighborhoods, so it's an unusual situation, but not that unusual - in many places the "downtown" neighborhoods have been gentrified and rents are higher than in the suburbs.

Apparently not enough for this letter to the ed writer:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0515thurlets151.html

Al

Tri-Met (the mass transit agency around the Portland, OR metro area) reported that they see a noticeable change in ridership with every $0.50 increase in the price of gas. They saw a distinct ridership increase at $3/gal and another one at $3.50/gal. They expect to see even more if regular hits $4/gal.

Apparently not enough for this letter to the ed writer:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0515thurlets151.html

Al

that is so completely idiotic that you just don't even know where to begin... :eek:

are you talking about H2's or the original hummers?
If they are simply H2's they are no worse than SUV's such as a Toyota Sequia or Land Cruiser, Range Rover etc. It doesn't consume anymore gas because of the square corners or styling.

I used Hummer as a word for large SUV's regardless of make/model... like BandAid or Kleenex.

I agree with alot of the talk here - and also disagree with alot of the talk.

I agree that society should use less gas. Drive fewer, more fuel efficient, cleaner cars. There's no reason someone has to drive a Sequoia to get some tomatoes at Walmart. Americans justify large vehicle purchases based on something they may have to do once.
"I may have to move my son to college in 2 years, so I should buy a large truck instead of a Corolla."
That mentality pisses me off. They don't see how that's a completely horrible idea. Everytime I say I want a Classic Cooper someone will ask me what I will do if I have to carry something huge like a sheet of plywood or a couch. This is how many people think. I don't get it.

I do disagree with a lot of the self-congratulatory ranting that people shouldn't have bought their houses... and the signs you miraculously saw but everyone else seemed to miss. This country has been moving in one direction for generations since the industrial revolution, and especially since the 50s. It was a way of life for a vast majority of Americans, because at the time it seemed to make sense. Ultimately, the suburbia set up is a bad set up because of the pollution and price of gas, but when it was conceived, that's just the way it was.

The one guy said he bought his house outright - that's fabulous for you, but less than 1% of people can do that. That's not a feasible argument really.

Rural America is another beast all together. Zero public transportation. Driving is a must. The kicker?? Most can afford their homes here, but cannot afford high prices of homes closer to urban centers. They are dependant on gas and cars. Telling that many people they are doing everything wrong just doesn't seem worth wasting your breath on. Truly - what should they do?

---

Me, personally, I'm a graduating college student, moving to a city, renting and riding my bike, I'll be fine... but many people can not do that. What should they do? Telling them they made mistakes doesn't solve anything. Solutions?

---

The thing is - I think this will work itself out. I really do. America will adapt at some point... it will just take more than a couple years. More people will ride bikes, people will eventually trade-in their SUVs, average gas mileage will go up due to gov't law, people will car-pool more, jobs will eventually not be so far away. These aren't overnight changes though, which is why it's tight right now for people who can't afford gas due to the price double/triple/etc...

I agree with alot of the talk here - and also disagree with alot of the talk.

I agree that society should use less gas. Drive fewer, more fuel efficient, cleaner cars. There's no reason someone has to drive a Sequoia to get some tomatoes at Walmart. Americans justify large vehicle purchases based on something they may have to do once.
"I may have to move my son to college in 2 years, so I should buy a large truck instead of a Corolla."
That mentality pisses me off. They don't see how that's a completely horrible idea. Everytime I say I want a Classic Cooper someone will ask me what I will do if I have to carry something huge like a sheet of plywood or a couch. This is how many people think. I don't get it.

I do disagree with a lot of the self-congratulatory ranting that people shouldn't have bought their houses... and the signs you miraculously saw but everyone else seemed to miss. This country has been moving in one direction for generations since the industrial revolution, and especially since the 50s. It was a way of life for a vast majority of Americans, because at the time it seemed to make sense. Ultimately, the suburbia set up is a bad set up because of the pollution and price of gas, but when it was conceived, that's just the way it was.

The one guy said he bought his house outright - that's fabulous for you, but less than 1% of people can do that. That's not a feasible argument really.

Rural America is another beast all together. Zero public transportation. Driving is a must. The kicker?? Most can afford their homes here, but cannot afford high prices of homes closer to urban centers. They are dependant on gas and cars. Telling that many people they are doing everything wrong just doesn't seem worth wasting your breath on. Truly - what should they do?

---

Me, personally, I'm a graduating college student, moving to a city, renting and riding my bike, I'll be fine... but many people can not do that. What should they do? Telling them they made mistakes doesn't solve anything. Solutions?

---

The thing is - I think this will work itself out. I really do. America will adapt at some point... it will just take more than a couple years. More people will ride bikes, people will eventually trade-in their SUVs, average gas mileage will go up due to gov't law, people will car-pool more, jobs will eventually not be so far away. These aren't overnight changes though, which is why it's tight right now for people who can't afford gas due to the price double/triple/etc...

A lot of what you say is true but not for the reasons you might expect. Americans born BEFORE
1959 know how to deal with 'enough' to live a reaonable life in a rural setting. Those born
from 1960 on will have to learn it. Therein lay the rub...........

The one guy said he bought his house outright - that's fabulous for you, but less than 1% of people can do that. That's not a feasible argument really.

?

---


but it is in the spirit of this forum. Observe many people from poorer nations who live here and you will see they buy cars and houses with CASH.
look at what size houses people lived in in the forties and look at today's houses and then tell me what's feasible and what isn't.

but it is in the spirit of this forum. Observe many people from poorer nations who live here and you will see they buy cars and houses with CASH.
look at what size houses people lived in in the forties and look at today's houses and then tell me what's feasible and what isn't.

This is very true! Also people bought affordable houses (I realize they aren't always available in all areas) paid them off and lived in them for the rest of their lives. They also didn't have HELO that they used to fund a lifestyle of the rich and famous...

Aaron:)

but it is in the spirit of this forum. Observe many people from poorer nations who live here and you will see they buy cars and houses with CASH.
look at what size houses people lived in in the forties and look at today's houses and then tell me what's feasible and what isn't.

That's true. Asians in Philly almost always pay cash up front for houses. IMust be pretty nice to be able to plunk down $200,000 cash for a house!! But then, recent immigrants aren't "americanized" yet, so they're still used to _saving_ for things they want, then buy it with their own cash. Sadly, their children & grandchildren don't seem to embrace the "old world" habits.

long commutes can spring from bad housing market

http://www.tribunehomefinder.com/story/116555:rolleyes:

I see this thread has gone on to the point where we need to change the title "Is $5 gas enough?"

I see this thread has gone on to the point where we need to change the title "Is $5 gas enough?"

Hmmm.........could be!:thumb::roflmao2::thumb:

I see this thread has gone on to the point where we need to change the title "Is $5 gas enough?"

It's there already. If you're going to change the title, best to go with $6. Fingers crossed it won't get there this summer, or this coming fall.

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_can_gastemperaturemap.aspx

long commutes can spring from bad housing market


That's my difficulty. It is less expensive for me to commute 300 kms a day, 3 days a week next semester than it would be to move ... even if gas goes to $1.40/litre here.

I see this thread has gone on to the point where we need to change the title "Is $5 gas enough?"

Check out this video from CNBC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWGsnW_NnxE


HIRSCH: There's no single thing that's going to solve this problem because it's as massive as one can possibly imagine. And the prices that we're paying at the pump today I think are going to be the good old days because others who watch this very closely forecast that we are going to be hitting $12 and $15 per gallon. And then, after that, when world oil production goes into decline, we're going to talk about rationing. In other words, not only are we going to be paying high prices and have considerable economic problems, in addition to that, we're not going to be able to get the fuel when we want it.

This isn't some random crank either. It is Robert Hirsch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Hirsch), who wrote the Hirsch report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirsch_report) for the DOE.

...It is Robert Hirsch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Hirsch), who wrote the Hirsch report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirsch_report) for the DOE.
Incredible resume. He's also a former director of the U.S. fusion research program in the 1970s, and one of the inventors of the Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor, which although it's not a power source, is a practical tabletop fusion device used as a neutron source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor

but it is in the spirit of this forum. Observe many people from poorer nations who live here and you will see they buy cars and houses with CASH.
look at what size houses people lived in in the forties and look at today's houses and then tell me what's feasible and what isn't.

I do completely agree that people are buying houses that are MUCH too large. They will find this out when they have to heat and cool it when the price of energy doubles.

That's true. Asians in Philly almost always pay cash up front for houses. IMust be pretty nice to be able to plunk down $200,000 cash for a house!! But then, recent immigrants aren't "americanized" yet, so they're still used to _saving_ for things they want, then buy it with their own cash. Sadly, their children & grandchildren don't seem to embrace the "old world" habits.

I'm not Asian. Through frugal living and saving, I paid cash for the cars I bought including the one I bought brand new and for my home in a housing co-op. I know Asians that go into debt too. If you went car free and have the self discipline to put the $5k per year or more that you save into some conservative investment, like your education or bonds or whatever you could pay $200,000 cash for a house too. If you save more than just the car free savings like I did it won't take very long. And, you don't have to feel deprived. You really don't. Maybe I should say you really didn't, if the peak oilers are right and we're headed for economic chaos within months, I may rue the decision not to by a hyper consumer like my broke friends. I mean if inflation keeps up my savings will vaporize and I'll be left with nothing so maybe we savers aren't so smart as we think we are. Savers have to have faith that there will be a future to save for, pessimists who have faith that the future is bleak and can see endless escalating costs would want to party today.

I'm not Asian. Through frugal living and saving, I paid cash for the cars I bought including the one I bought brand new and for my home in a housing co-op. I know Asians that go into debt too. If you went car free and have the self discipline to put the $5k per year or more that you save into some conservative investment, like your education or bonds or whatever you could pay $200,000 cash for a house too. If you save more than just the car free savings like I did it won't take very long. And, you don't have to feel deprived. You really don't. Maybe I should say you really didn't, if the peak oilers are right and we're headed for economic chaos within months, I may rue the decision not to by a hyper consumer like my broke friends. I mean if inflation keeps up my savings will vaporize and I'll be left with nothing so maybe we savers aren't so smart as we think we are. Savers have to have faith that there will be a future to save for, pessimists who have faith that the future is bleak and can see endless escalating costs would want to party today.

Works for me:thumb:...one thing I have done is when I purchase products is to buy the most durable product I can...I consider it an investment in the future. FWIW we did have a mortgage but paid it off and now the only debt is recurring taxes and living expenses.

Aaron:)

Diesel is over $5/gallon here already...I saw $5.25 at one station. The cheap station in town is at $5.05. Regular is around $4.10 or so and climbing. It stalled at $3.999 for a long time but once it passed the $4 mark it started going up really fast. Guess I don't have a point, just adding some information.

I do disagree with a lot of the self-congratulatory ranting that people shouldn't have bought their houses... and the signs you miraculously saw but everyone else seemed to miss.

I remember being told in the 7th grade that the world would eventually end up like it is today. THE SEVENTH *****ING GRADE!!! Maybe I was the only one paying attention but I have known this was coming for a long time (I am 25 now).



The thing is - I think this will work itself out. I really do. America will adapt at some point... it will just take more than a couple years. More people will ride bikes, people will eventually trade-in their SUVs, average gas mileage will go up due to gov't law, people will car-pool more, jobs will eventually not be so far away. These aren't overnight changes though, which is why it's tight right now for people who can't afford gas due to the price double/triple/etc...

I concur.

I remember being told in the 7th grade that the world would eventually end up like it is today. THE SEVENTH *****ING GRADE!!! Maybe I was the only one paying attention but I have known this was coming for a long time (I am 25 now).


It just happens to be when you were in the seventh grade, there was another housing bust, recession and gas price spike going on, and maybe you were basing your info off of that paticular time. I've seen several housing booms and busts, recessions, economic upswings over the many years, and it seems like every generation has to learn the same lessons over again.

It just happens to be when you were in the seventh grade, there was another housing bust, recession and gas price spike going on, and maybe you were basing your info off of that paticular time. I've seen several housing booms and busts, recessions, economic upswings over the many years, and it seems like every generation has to learn the same lessons over again.

I was talking about the inevitability of expensive oil if we continued to use it for personal transport.

I was talking about the inevitability of expensive oil if we continued to use it for personal transport.

Expensive is a relative term, there was once a time during the first oil crisis when an ambitious entrepreneur offered to supply anyone with as much gasoline as they wanted for 88 cents a gallon, and lo and behold, there were no takers on his offer. Once personal incomes catch back up with oil prices, then oil will become, relatively speaking, "cheap" again.

Expensive is a relative term, there was once a time during the first oil crisis when an ambitious entrepreneur offered to supply anyone with as much gasoline as they wanted for 88 cents a gallon, and lo and behold, there were no takers on his offer. Once personal incomes catch back up with oil prices, then oil will become, relatively speaking, "cheap" again.

Oil will not be cheap long term. The only way for it to appear cheap would be for America to go back to a position of world superiority where we could afford to buy oil but the Chinese couldn't. That is, the average American is simply able to afford a lot of it, even though it is actually expensive. Never again will that be the case.

Oil will not be cheap long term. The only way for it to appear cheap would be for America to go back to a position of world superiority where we could afford to buy oil but the Chinese couldn't. That is, the average American is simply able to afford a lot of it, even though it is actually expensive. Never again will that be the case.

Agreed, that the days of the average American buying large amounts of fuel are coming to a close, unless personal incomes reach a point that oil prices become,again, relatively "cheap". China's and India's economies cannot stay red hot forever, and America will turn to alternative energy sources/conservation, if oil prices continue spiraling upward, stabilizing oil prices and possibly dropping them.

Oil pricers are high because of the value of the dollar on the world market.We would be paying only 2.00 per gallon if the dollar was strong.Blame bush occupation of iraq for this,I am.

I know who the truckers are voting for in 08,and his name is not john.

Oil pricers are high because of the value of the dollar on the world market.We would be paying only 2.00 per gallon if the dollar was strong.Blame bush occupation of iraq for this,I am.

I know who the truckers are voting for in 08,and his name is not john.
:thumb::D:thumb::D or Hilliary............

Oil pricers are high because of the value of the dollar on the world market.We would be paying only 2.00 per gallon if the dollar was strong.Blame bush occupation of iraq for this,I am.

I know who the truckers are voting for in 08,and his name is not john.

Based on much reading...I doubt it is really going to make a Rat's A** who we vote for in November. If anything who ever gets elected is probably going to be remembered as the President that got a free ride to the bottom. I have yet to hear anything approaching any form of solution from any party, whether one of the big 2 or not. IMHO the government is going to be pretty much powerless over the state of the economy and the related fall out. Think collapse of the Soviet Union. We no longer have the world supremacy that we did 50 years ago. Change is going to have to come from the local level.

Aaron:)

Based on much reading...I doubt it is really going to make a Rat's A** who we vote for in November. If anything who ever gets elected is probably going to be remembered as the President that got a free ride to the bottom. I have yet to hear anything approaching any form of solution from any party, whether one of the big 2 or not. IMHO the government is going to be pretty much powerless over the state of the economy and the related fall out. Think collapse of the Soviet Union. We no longer have the world supremacy that we did 50 years ago. Change is going to have to come from the local level.

Aaron:)

Obama is talking about taking tax credits away from companies that are out sourcing manufacturing jobs to other countries. That would help us be less of a consumer driven economy and more of a manufacturing driven economy.

Obama is talking about taking tax credits away from companies that are out sourcing manufacturing jobs to other countries. That would help us be less of a consumer driven economy and more of a manufacturing driven economy.

That would be a start...however a substantial amount of our manufacturing infrastructure (machinery) has been sold over seas to. I suspect most companies will just shut their doors before they would move production back to the US. They don't have the capital to reinvest in the US anymore. We have be raped many times over by big business and the government. Some businesses that still have plants in the US might be able to ramp up production, but as far as I can see all that the revoking of tax credits will do is drive the prices up, not create jobs.

Aaron:)