Living Car Free - Is $4 a gallon gas enough??

Is $4 a gallon enough to get people to drive less or use
mass transit or bicycles more????

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_bi_ge/gas_demand

Gov't says gas prices could hit $4
By JOHN WILEN, AP Business Writer
Tue Apr 8, 11:15 AM ET
NEW YORK - Retail gas prices could climb as high as $4 a gallon this summer, but prices at such lofty levels will make many Americans think twice about hitting the road this summer, the Energy Department said Tuesday.

High prices and a weak economy are expected to cut demand for gasoline by about 0.4 percent during the peak summer driving season, the department's Energy Information Administration said in a monthly report on petroleum supplies and demand. Overall consumption of petroleum products will drop by 90,000 barrels a day this year. Previously, the EIA had projected petroleum consumption would rise by 40,000 barrels a day.

Average monthly gas prices will peak around $3.60 a gallon in June, the EIA said. However, prices could rise much higher than that at times.

"It is important to note ... that even if the national average monthly gasoline price peaks around $3.60 per gallon this summer, it is possible that prices at some point will cross the $4 per gallon threshold," the EIA said.

Where I live gas for 87 is already over $3.60 a gallon. My wife and I were looking at our finances last night. We are avg. $250 a month is gas, but $1000 in food for the two of us. I guess either way it is fuel costs.

Is $5 for a pack of cigarettes enough to get smokers to quit?

I think it has to reach a point where the choice is drive or eat before we c a major change in urban traffic. It does seem to be having an effect of the type of vehicles chosen. The death of the 8000 lb SUV has to be a good thing.

I think it has been amply demonstrated that Americans will spend, spend, spend even though they no ability to spend, through various forms of debt financing. Who knows how many billions of dollars have actually gotten sloshed over from home equity to fuel, or from credit card debt to fuel. Even before the recession began, we had a negative savings rate, first time since the Great Depression.

The only way this will stop is when

1. the lines of credit disappear
2. you cannot find physical supplies of fuel to buy, at any price

Both of these future scenarios are on their way. And I will be overjoyed when those dangerous pieces of hardware sit and rust in driveways.

No

Where I live gas for 87 is already over $3.60 a gallon. My wife and I were looking at our finances last night. We are avg. $250 a month is gas, but $1000 in food for the two of us. I guess either way it is fuel costs.

Gas is $3.55 by me, so we're about in the same cost of living range I'd suppose. What the heck are you eating that costs $1000/month to feed 2 people?

I don't know, but I do know it makes me re-think my eating/shopping habits since it's causing the price of produce to go up.


Is $4 a gallon enough to get people to drive less or use
mass transit or bicycles more????

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_bi_ge/gas_demand

Gov't says gas prices could hit $4
By JOHN WILEN, AP Business Writer
Tue Apr 8, 11:15 AM ET
NEW YORK - Retail gas prices could climb as high as $4 a gallon this summer, but prices at such lofty levels will make many Americans think twice about hitting the road this summer, the Energy Department said Tuesday.

High prices and a weak economy are expected to cut demand for gasoline by about 0.4 percent during the peak summer driving season, the department's Energy Information Administration said in a monthly report on petroleum supplies and demand. Overall consumption of petroleum products will drop by 90,000 barrels a day this year. Previously, the EIA had projected petroleum consumption would rise by 40,000 barrels a day.

Average monthly gas prices will peak around $3.60 a gallon in June, the EIA said. However, prices could rise much higher than that at times.

"It is important to note ... that even if the national average monthly gasoline price peaks around $3.60 per gallon this summer, it is possible that prices at some point will cross the $4 per gallon threshold," the EIA said.

No,
I really believe it is out of the mindset of most people in our society to live without a automobile. The view/image of a "successful person" in my area of the country is one with an automobile. Oil will become a status symbol in this country. This country was built for the automobile. The autombile industry is an industry that is in bed with the oil industry(Hotdogs & Buns). They will try every trick in the book to make us believe we need their products and their grasp won't loosen on there customers. They will improve MPG when they see a reason too(the customer believes life can't function without their product) Another words they have their customer's hands tied behind their backs until they choose to break free. Their customers will simply give up other products in life including good food just to fill up the tank. Making our economic situation worse.

Is $5 for a pack of cigarettes enough to get smokers to quit?

I think it has to reach a point where the choice is drive or eat before we c a major change in urban traffic. It does seem to be having an effect of the type of vehicles chosen. The death of the 8000 lb SUV has to be a good thing.

Where is that happening?

All I see round these parts (NY) are more and more audacious and large SUV's. The shinier wheels the better

and no, $4 gas isn't anything. I really think It would have to get to $10 or so to substantially impact driving habits. and at $10/gal, the economy would be shot.

i don't see any difference, except more complaining. same fast, aggressive, large truck and SUV traffic.

No, $4/gal is cheap cheap cheap. They've been paying that much in Europe for ages. As the price goes up, there will be a tipping point; but I doubt we'll see a big change at $4, $5, even $8.

I still get infuriated when I see people driving their hummers around. It's like, they're spitting in everyone's face, "I've got the money to drive this POS, and I'm going to flaunt it." I often flip the bird at people driving around in their big stupid SUVs...damn morons.

Let the gas prices go up, I don't have a car, doesn't bother me.

Where I live gas for 87 is already over $3.60 a gallon. My wife and I were looking at our finances last night. We are avg. $250 a month is gas, but $1000 in food for the two of us. I guess either way it is fuel costs.

My wife and I spend $280.00 per month on groceries. I have no idea what it is that you are eating or where you are buying it. That must include eating out...right?

Nope...

But I have started to see the increase in various grocery items. It is NOT stressing my budget at all, we saw it coming and sort of planned for it.

Aaron:)

What the heck are you eating that costs $1000/month to feed 2 people?

+1 WTF?

As for making the switch to mass transit or cycling, most people have grown up geared to drive their cars for everything and will make sacrifices in other aspects of life long before giving up driving. IMHO two major factors in this are the physical environment we live in, which is carcentric, and the fact the 85% of the country has limited or NO access to mass transit. Those who live in metropolitan areas take the idea of widely accessable mass transit for granted along with the ability to procure a wide variety of goods in a realitively small geographic area. The development pattern of this country is such that it is very difficult for most people to be without a motorized vehicle of one form or another. That said there is the opportunity for people to be efficient with their car trips and to reduce the milage they travel but it will take a major cultural shift.

Is $4 a gallon enough to get people to drive less or use
mass transit or bicycles more????

Nope.

1) People still need to get places which are difficult to get to by bicycle and there isn't a good alternate transportation system in place - i.e. trains, busses, etc. in most areas of North America.

2) Even $4.00/gallon (or the predicted $1.40/litre here in Alberta) is less expensive than moving to and living in some cities.


For example ...

I live very inexpensively in a city 150 kms away from the University I attend. Next semester I will be attending that University 3 times a week, but I work on weekends in the city where I live so that I can afford tuition etc..

I have two options:

-- I could commute the 300 kms a day for a total of $420/month in fuel costs (calculated at $1.40/litre).

or

-- I could rent a room in the city for a monthly rate of $425 (an incredibly inexpensive price for a room in this city) and pay $140/month in fuel to get back out to my job on weekends for a total of $565/month.

I'll be commuting ... driving 3 times a week (900 kms a week) saves me $145 a month. :)


----------------------------------

BTW - right now, I'm spending $20/week on groceries, but there is just me.

I still get infuriated when I see people driving their hummers around. It's like, they're spitting in everyone's face, "I've got the money to drive this POS, and I'm going to flaunt it." I often flip the bird at people driving around in their big stupid SUVs...damn morons.

Let the gas prices go up, I don't have a car, doesn't bother me.

wow, why does it bother you so much? Do you honestly think these people make a conscious effort to piss you off by buying a hummer?

As far as I know people don't buy cars to piss other people off. They buy them because they are fun to drive, or relevant for their situation in life.

You also don't know their situation. Why get mad a hummer driver than maybe drives once a week, three blocks to church on sunday, yet you have a warm place in your heart for the prius driver that piles up 50k miles a year for whatever reason?

I have an SUV that I barely drive. However when I do it isn't to go around and make people angry. It's usually to haul my bikes somewhere, or fill it with camping gear, or building supplies to remodel my house, etc. Heck, sometimes I even drive it when it's empty!

Would I be better off with a brand new prius? Hell no. My SUV is paid off. If I bought a prius, I would be stuck with a $500 a month payment, and not much in terms of gas savings (for the amount I drive) and absolutely no room to haul anything around.

The thing that makes me mad about SUVs, and the Hummer in particular, is that I have to pay to subsidize the waste of the folks that drive them. The same as I have to pay for the extra capacity needed to allow all of my neighbors to water their lawns all summer. Drive an SUV if you like, but please pay the extra costs yourself.

The thing that makes me mad about SUVs, and the Hummer in particular, is that I have to pay to subsidize the waste of the folks that drive them. The same as I have to pay for the extra capacity needed to allow all of my neighbors to water their lawns all summer. Drive an SUV if you like, but please pay the extra costs yourself.

What waste?

I still get infuriated when I see people driving their hummers around. It's like, they're spitting in everyone's face, "I've got the money to drive this POS, and I'm going to flaunt it." I often flip the bird at people driving around in their big stupid SUVs...damn morons.

Let the gas prices go up, I don't have a car, doesn't bother me.

I do hope you're not serious.

wow, why does it bother you so much? Do you honestly think these people make a conscious effort to piss you off by buying a hummer?

As far as I know people don't buy cars to piss other people off. They buy them because they are fun to drive, or relevant for their situation in life.

You also don't know their situation. Why get mad a hummer driver than maybe drives once a week, three blocks to church on sunday, yet you have a warm place in your heart for the prius driver that piles up 50k miles a year for whatever reason?

I have an SUV that I barely drive. However when I do it isn't to go around and make people angry. It's usually to haul my bikes somewhere, or fill it with camping gear, or building supplies to remodel my house, etc. Heck, sometimes I even drive it when it's empty!

Would I be better off with a brand new prius? Hell no. My SUV is paid off. If I bought a prius, I would be stuck with a $500 a month payment, and not much in terms of gas savings (for the amount I drive) and absolutely no room to haul anything around.


Wow, that is really great.
I realize they don't drive them to deliberately make people mad. It's just stupid; Hummers get 8-10 miles per gallon? In a supposed oil shortage where gas prices are skyrocketing and global warming becoming increasingly more of a problem, these people should be "hit on the back of the head with a roll of quarters in a sock, wake up in Iraq, and told to get the oil themselves." -Patton Oswalt

And i never said I had a warm place in my heart for the prius driver...I don't have much of a warm place in my heart for any cars at this time, until we find the solution for a replacement for gasoline and oil that is healthy for the environment. Other than that, I think cars are a great idea for certain things.

What waste?

Highways and other infrastructure, oil wars, free parking... there is a ton of waste with cars that is subsidized by taxes.

I do hope you're not serious.

I certainly am. I'm pissed off at all the lazy f*cks our society is plagued with. They are cyborgs..."Resistance is futile" bunch that thinks they can't live without their SUV to haul their 8 kids around to the soccer park for practice. And "Oh! Look at the Hummer, it's cool! Better buy one with my 70k income a year job and 300k house!" Yes I'm angry because I don't get paid sh*t, but I still wouldn't buy a car even if I made 100k a year.

I certainly am. I'm pissed off at all the lazy f*cks our society is plagued with. They are cyborgs..."Resistance is futile" bunch that thinks they can't live without their SUV to haul their 8 kids around to the soccer park for practice. And "Oh! Look at the Hummer, it's cool! Better buy one with my 70k income a year job and 300k house!" Yes I'm angry because I don't get paid sh*t, but I still wouldn't buy a car even if I made 100k a year.


Well, I hope you don't do these offensive gestures while riding your bicycle. It presents a very rude and negative image of cyclists.

I certainly am. I'm pissed off at all the lazy f*cks our society is plagued with. They are cyborgs..."Resistance is futile" bunch that thinks they can't live without their SUV to haul their 8 kids around to the soccer park for practice. And "Oh! Look at the Hummer, it's cool! Better buy one with my 70k income a year job and 300k house!" Yes I'm angry because I don't get paid sh*t, but I still wouldn't buy a car even if I made 100k a year.

you have the same mentality as the cager that gets behind you and honks their horn and throws the bird at you as they roar by. Life is too short to be so angry at something you have no power over.

As to the soccer thing, I think it's really misplaced. I would rather see eight kids getting to a soccer match in one hummer than in eight individual cars.

You guys, in a "living car free" forum are so righteous to defend such a detrimental act. <Claps> Bravo!
And how does it create a negative image towards ALL cyclists? I bet you're racist too. Do you think all black people are gang members? Do you think all mexican people are lazy? Gimme a break...

There's probably a guy you flipped off, driving around in his GMC Denali, thinking exactly the same trash about everybody riding a bike...

I'm pissed off at all the self righteous f*cks our society is plagued with. They are lemmings..."I'm saving the environment" bunch that thinks they can make a difference riding their bikes everywhere and slowing up traffic. And "Oh! Look at the Xtracycle, it's cool! Better buy one with my 20k income a year job and subsidized apartment!"

:lol: got a laugh out of me...

5000 mi per year / 25 mpg * 3$ = 600$
5000 mi per year / 25 mpg * 4$ = 800$

Sorry but 200$ over the course of an entire year will not get noticed by most people.

5000 a year seems a little low. What's the national average? Or is that it?

It's silly to expect a certain price level where all of a sudden everyone makes a radical change. It will be a more gradual slope where people make more and more changes. And it won't all be at the same level. Millionaires can afford to drive their SUVs for far longer than Burger King employees.

And how does it create a negative image towards ALL cyclists?

It doesn't matter what we think. The problem is what to motorists think. Many of them do tend to be biased against bicyclists. Acting like a jerk only tends to confirm their prejudices.

Check out this article in the Des Moines Register (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080407/NEWS/80407014/-1/NEWS04)and especially the included comments.

What you didn't say was if you were just flipping them off, or if you were flipping them off in response to an offense by the driver. Just flipping them off of course is pretty foolish, but I have to admit that if I am attacked, I have been known to express the occasional epithet. I can't always say that my judgement has been optimal, but I try.


I bet you're racist too. Do you think all black people are gang members? Do you think all mexican people are lazy? Gimme a break...

Wow, are you projecting a bit? That's quite a long walk off a short plank.

You guys, in a "living car free" forum are so righteous to defend such a detrimental act. <Claps> Bravo!
And how does it create a negative image towards ALL cyclists? I bet you're racist too. Do you think all black people are gang members? Do you think all mexican people are lazy? Gimme a break...

I most definitely am NOT racist, and I wonder why on earth you would even suggest such a thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that when a cyclist "flips off" a motorist, especially for no reason at all, the motorist will have a negative impression of cyclists. And if I'm cycling up ahead of you a ways, the now-angry motorist may treat me badly because I'm one of "those cyclists".

Gas/petrol here in the uk £5 a galon, £1.07 a litre= $10a galon, $2.20 a litre. Cigarettes £5 for 20 =$10. Now they want older vehicles not reaching certain emissions to pay £200 = $400 a DAY to enter London.

I most definitely am NOT racist, and I wonder why on earth you would even suggest such a thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that when a cyclist "flips off" a motorist, especially for no reason at all, the motorist will have a negative impression of cyclists. And if I'm cycling up ahead of you a ways, the now-angry motorist may treat me badly because I'm one of "those cyclists".

this exact same issue happened to me once. a rider far behind me got in a scuffle with a driver... the driver got pissed off and when he came up the road to me he learned out the window and screamed something about "you effing bike #$#$@, etc. etc.".

so, yeah, someone else's actions can definitely affect us.

Okay, I'm sorry guys. Machka, the racist comment was only an analogy, a bad one at that, but still...
My impression of people who drive cars isn't changed because I see people driving 20 mph over the speed limit on the interstates or people driving with road rage. I know that all drivers aren't like that. Different strokes...
I just prefer the more punk rocker lifestyle of cycling in that I'm very anti-car and not affraid to show it. It's the same way I am about my anti-religious beliefs, that's why I'm in a death metal band, I sing and write music about what I hate. Me, as a cyclist and commuter, is my way of saying f*ck you car-reliant culture. I'm sorry if it makes you look bad and maybe I'm not sorry...I simply think that you do not need a car to live in this or any society. Me, flipping off someone driving a hummer isn't about something shallow like, "oh did they swerve in front of me" or anything like that, it's the deep seeded root of the culture we live I'm flipping off. The media telling you what's cool and that you should go out and buy this and that; like the hummer or any SUV.

so flame away, I'm not changing my outlook on car drivers and the american way of life, nor do I try to fit in with the driving crowd or to gain acceptance because, "I'm a vehicle too!". I simply am anti-car.

Highways and other infrastructure, oil wars, free parking... there is a ton of waste with cars that is subsidized by taxes.

Hrm, I quite like highways. Several of the streets I ride on regularly are state highways, and if they were removed, I'd have quite a slog to get to downtown. I've ridden on dirt roads and I don't like 'em. Gravel isn't much fun either. Paved highways are *much* nicer.

I also quite like infrastructure like oh... city water. Or farms. Very little infrastructure directly benefits cars and nothing else. For one thing, cars don't *vote*. And quite a lot of infrastructure directly benefits me. Since I'm a very self interested voter, I'm all in favor of it, and would like more infrastructure for my benefit. Maybe some more library funding and parking meters that will take 2 bikes instead of just one?

I'm not fond of the war in Iraq, but I don't think it's correct to blame that war on people driving cars. There was that whole notion of "weapons of mass destruction" and a "war on terror". I don't recall anyone claiming that attacking Iraq would produce cheap gas. (not that it did much about weaponry or terror either... but then, there are *reasons* I'm not fond of the war)

And well, free parking is free parking. Are you volunteering your town to be the first with metered bike racks?

I recall reading somewhere that the national average miles/yr for cars used to be ~12,000/yr but in recent decades has risen to closer to 15,000.

What the heck are you eating that costs $1000/month to feed 2 people?

Yeah... my partner and I spend barely over $1000 a month total, and $650 of that goes to rent/utilities.

5000 mi per year / 25 mpg * 3$ = 600$
5000 mi per year / 25 mpg * 4$ = 800$

Sorry but 200$ over the course of an entire year will not get noticed by most people.

IMHO you are way off on your numbers...best information I can find is that the AVERAGE fuel mileage in the US is 21mpg (and that is highway) IIRC something like 75% of all automotive trips in the US are under 15 miles in length, so I doubt you would get highway mileage. But...using the 21mph, driving an average 15,000 miles per year:

15,000 miles/21mpg*$3=$2143
15,000 miles/21mpg*$4=$2857

Difference of $714...more than I paid for my last 4 bikes combined or enough to pay half of my yearly property tax bill or enough to order 51 pizzas from Dominoes or 75 12 packs of cheap beer or etc...also increased fuel costs will be reflected at the grocery store so it is really a double hit on the family budget.

Aaron:)

Difference of $714...more than I paid for my last 4 bikes combined or enough to pay half of my yearly property tax bill or enough to order 51 pizzas from Dominoes or 75 12 packs of cheap beer or etc...
Aaron:)

Or... if invested wisely in a Roth IRA or some other such financial vehicle, would probably -- over the course of many years-- amount to a hill of beans... :D

Or... if invested wisely in a Roth IRA or some other such financial vehicle, would probably -- over the course of many years-- amount to a hill of beans... :D

:roflmao: well if you started when you first got your license and using compounded interest...it might keep up with inflation:rolleyes: Personally the way I see it, is every dollar that doesn't go into my gas tank is a bonus. (FWIW I only paid for 7% of the miles I drove last year, the rest the company paid for;))

Aaron:)

:roflmao: well if you started when you first got your license and using compounded interest...it might keep up with inflation:rolleyes: Personally the way I see it, is every dollar that doesn't go into my gas tank is a bonus. (FWIW I only paid for 7% of the miles I drove last year, the rest the company paid for;))

Aaron:)

I'm inclined to agree, but I do notice that every dollar I save on gasoline and other auto-elated expenses, manages to find another avenue to escape my pocket. I have found though that there is a little more disposable cash, even in these times of expensive gas. Perhaps Americans should take a cue from the Italians whose gas is around $8 a gallon: drive less!

For some, I doubt any amount will be enough for them to stop driving. For others, I suppose they will give up their cars when they have to choose between eating/staying alive and driving. Or will they just sit at home and starve to death?

Machka,

I think you have to ascribe some value to the 2 h (at 150 km/h) or 3 h (at 100 km/h) that you spend driving. Even at the Alberta minimum wage,and 5 days a week you are talking $320/month in lost time - but for me (I get paid about $50 an hour) you are talking $2000/month in lost time. I could buy a car a month with the lost time that you have with your commute (or buy a house every couple years free and clear). Of course most people don't have such a long commute...

FWIW - I would not cycle 300 km a day either - but you are the queen of the long rides :-)

Considering my commute, as far as I'm concerned, I can't understand the thinking of someone who spends $30 000 (not counting maintenance/fuel/insurance) to achieve a goal that costs me $300. But there is no accounting for the wasteful habits of the wealthy - some people like to spend 100x too much for something (maybe that's how they become rich in bizarro economics land).

Machka,

I think you have to ascribe some value to the 2 h (at 150 km/h) or 3 h (at 100 km/h) that you spend driving. Even at the Alberta minimum wage,and 5 days a week you are talking $320/month in lost time - but for me (I get paid about $50 an hour) you are talking $2000/month in lost time. I could buy a car a month with the lost time that you have with your commute (or buy a house every couple years free and clear). Of course most people don't have such a long commute...

FWIW - I would not cycle 300 km a day either - but you are the queen of the long rides :-)

Considering my commute, as far as I'm concerned, I can't understand the thinking of someone who spends $30 000 (not counting maintenance/fuel/insurance) to achieve a goal that costs me $300. But there is no accounting for the wasteful habits of the wealthy - some people like to spend 100x too much for something (maybe that's how they become rich in bizarro economics land).

That would be the day I would drive 150 km/h!! I'm still not comfortable with the 110 km/h speed limit. :D

In my case, my commute for is for my education, so all I'm losing is homework time ... and I've even made an attempt to minimize that by using one of those voice recorder things, so I can listen to myself recite my notes.

If it were all about a job, I'd probably move.

But then ... my summer job (and job I've held two other times for longer periods of time) is a 70 km round trip commute from where I live ... and I can't move much closer than that because my job is in a plant out in the middle of nowhere. I do plan to commute there by bicycle 2 or 3 days a week ... but much more than that is exhausting ... and time consuming.

I just prefer the more punk rocker lifestyle of cycling in that I'm very anti-car and not affraid to show it. It's the same way I am about my anti-religious beliefs, that's why I'm in a death metal band, I sing and write music about what I hate. Me, as a cyclist and commuter, is my way of saying f*ck you car-reliant culture. I'm sorry if it makes you look bad and maybe I'm not sorry...I simply think that you do not need a car to live in this or any society. Me, flipping off someone driving a hummer isn't about something shallow like, "oh did they swerve in front of me" or anything like that, it's the deep seeded root of the culture we live I'm flipping off. The media telling you what's cool and that you should go out and buy this and that; like the hummer or any SUV.

so flame away, I'm not changing my outlook on car drivers and the american way of life, nor do I try to fit in with the driving crowd or to gain acceptance because, "I'm a vehicle too!". I simply am anti-car.

Now, let me guess - you live in the city. You live close to work/school/your preferred clubs/coffeehouse or whatever. Living the anti-car/pro-bicycle life works very well because you're in a narrow geographic area that fits a bicycle's effective commuting radius (distance vs. time).

A lot of us don't live in the city. Some of us (and I'm a very good example) love having ten acres of woods for a yard, the neighbors cattle being noisy in the morning, and a whole lot of other little bits of life that absolutely cannot be found in a urban environment.

Guess what? That wonderful bicycle does have it's limitations - unless time spent commuting doesn't matter.

There is no doubt the bicycle has limitations, but keep in mind this is Living Car Free. Kind of like arguing Ford in a Chevy forum...

Back to the topic at hand:

It will be interesting to see how cities change more than anything. City transportation plans will probably be modified and evolve to include more and more multi-modal options. You may see more of any attempt to revitalize urban centers than to extend the suburban sprawl. The lasting impact, I think, of high gas prices will be the change in city planning and infrastructure more so than a change in the individual consumer.

The answer is yes. But.....

The question becomes at what point can you no longer afford to operate your car? People who can afford gas guzzling hummers are not going to be the first ones that will have to give up their cars.
People who are scraping by, barely affording to keep their car running are going to be the first ones to look for alternate methods of transportation. Everyone else will tighten their belts a bit and make due.

But this is a good thing. If the price is jacked up slowly enough, the transition from cars to alternate forms of transportation (bikes, buses, photon transportation, pack mule) happen slowly but more completely. Instead of 'bike to work week' people will shift from a two car household to a one car household with bikes/buses as a supplement to the single car. From there the single car will be a more efficient single car.

From there people will start looking to see if they really need a car. The jump from car directly to bike is a fairly traumatic experience. If you want more people to bike, ease the shock a little bit for them and make it more pleasant for them. "You're saving the earth" and "its good for you" go down like veggies to a six year old who wants the ice cream in the fridge. Where is the (instant) positive incentive for them? Everyone has seen the stick (fuel prices, smog, parking), no one sees the carrot.

How do you make it fashionable and desirable to ride a bike over driving a car? When you can answer that question without using the "You're saving the earth", "its good for you", and "It helps poor people" arguments, then maybe, just maybe you will get the attention of a non-believer.

If the price is jacked up slowly enough, the transition from cars to alternate forms of transportation (bikes, buses, photon transportation, pack mule) happen slowly but more completely.

Yes, because, as I said in my first post in this thread, right now the infrastructure for ceasing to use motorized vehicles is far from being in place.

Take my area for example. Way back in 2004 (and possibly earlier) politicians were talking about putting in a fast train between Calgary and Edmonton. They were debating about starting it in 2005, and put the estimated completion date around 2009. I thought it was a fantastic idea. Hwy 2 between Calgary and Edmonton is a nightmare half the time because of the heavy and agressive traffic ... I don't like driving that highway ... and because a fast train would complete the trip in less than 2 hours, whereas now it takes about 3 hours. So it would not only reduce the vehicular traffic on the highway, but passengers could travel between the two cities faster than they currently do. Plus, for me as a student, I could read a textbook on the trip, and make good use of my time ... whereas it would not be recommended to read while I drive. :D

But guess what ... politicians are still debating whether this fast train would be a good idea or not. It just came up in a debate recently and several voted against it!!! Absolutely no work has been done, and I'm not even sure if money has been budgetted for it. It definitely will not be in place for 2009.

And within Edmonton, expanding the LRT route (which is really short!) is a constant source of government debate.

If governments got off their butts and started building these things, a car-free lifestyle would become more attractive to people.