When do you pull off the road?

[WriteABike]

Due to recent events, I finally feel like maybe it's safe to ask this question here. First, a little background:

A friend at work and I commute to and from work by bike. Most of the trip is on low-speed rural roads with hardly any traffic. But there's a mile-and-a-half section that's on a narrow, 55mph road that is usually pretty lightly trafficked, but occasionally we'll end up with a car (or large truck) approaching from the front and one approaching from behind, and there's no shoulder outside the white line. On our road bikes, we don't worry much about that situation. There probably isn't technically enough room for them to stay in the lane and keep three feet from us, but they do it anyway, and I'm used to it. (Sometimes they'll actually crowd the oncoming car instead. Often, the car behind just slows down until the oncoming car passes.)

I have a recumbent trike, which I'm almost finished building a velomobile-style shell for. My friend is planning to get a trike and build one soon. When I first started riding the trike, I had the three-across scenario occur with a semi coming up behind me. I could see it in the mirror well in advance, so I decided to pull off the shoulder. It was an inconvenience to me, and I got weeds stuck in the idler, so I decided to just hold my lane and count on the vehicle behind me to slow down and wait. That's what I've done since, and it hasn't been a problem.

Because the trike is a little wider and can't ride halfway off the road like a bike, there really isn't room for cars to squeeze past. My friend is worried about riding on that road and taking the lane. My thinking is that I'll take the lane and keep an eye on the mirror. If it appears that the vehicle is going to run me over, then I'll bail off the road. He thinks we ought to slow down and pull over.

Bailing off the road at speed could be dangerous because of the steep shoulder. Also, I might wait too long and end up getting hit. But the chances of getting hit from behind when riding such a noticeable vehicle seem miniscule.

Thoughts?

[AlmostTrick]

It sounds like you're doing good, but maybe move a little farther left to make it more clear that there is not enough space to "squeeze by". As long as they can see you in the lane early on, they will not hit you. A mirror does help, because then you can see them slowing down or changing lanes safely.

If I was holding up cars for over a minute or so I'd pull over, as long as there was a safe spot to do so.

[DCCommuter]

I've never been able to tell by looking at the front of a car what it is going to do, so I don't see much utility in a mirror. What is important is that the driver needs to know with absolute certainty what you're going to do. If you look like you might get out of his way, he's going to try and squeeze by. If you look like you're not going anywhere, if he sees you he's going to slow down and wait until it's safe to pass.

If he doesn't see you, you've got problems on this road no matter how you ride.

[Brian Ratliff]

55mph rural roads are hard. I seriously burnt myself out one summer commuting on these roads for about half of a 20 mile commute, 2 to 4 times a week.

I don't typically pull of the road for anything (though I am on two wheels, not three). What I do is make it painfully obvious to the overtaking vehicle that they cannot pass using the same lane. I will "take the lane", meaning I'll get out toward the middle and many times on these types of roads I'll give a signal with my hand to "stay back" (put my hand out, palm toward the driver, and wave them away).

This works most of the time. The watch word is to be assertive. Act like you own your own space.

[Tom Stormcrowe]

My wife rides a trike and in honesty, she gets better courtesy from the cars than I do. She rides a recumbent delta, a Sun EZ-3, and they'll often hold back and then give her the entire lane if they can. Some of them may think she's a little old lady and I know a few that thought it was a form of wheelchair. Whatever the reason though, they definitely give her more room. ;)

[noisebeam]

I've never been able to tell by looking at the front of a car what it is going to do, so I don't see much utility in a mirror.
One never knows what a driver may do until they do it. I would instead say one can often tell by looking back (mirror helps) at rear approaching vehicles if the driver may have seen me and I can tell what the are likely to do next - this is especially true for roads different than the OP is dealing with: one narrow lane each way.

You do get some clues from rear approaching motorists. Some are obvious, flashing headlights, left turn signal. Some more subtle, slowing down, or moving leftward in lane.

Of course none of these give certainty to what the driver will do next, but they are clues that help me know what the motorist may do next or what I may need to do next.

Also on roads unlike the one in question (say multi lane) those clues can be much more obvious, such as seeing nearly ever driver merge into the adjacent lane well before they get to you.

Al

[noisebeam]

I don't typically pull of the road for anything (though I am on two wheels, not three). What I do is make it painfully obvious to the overtaking vehicle that they cannot pass using the same lane. I will "take the lane", meaning I'll get out toward the middle and many times on these types of roads I'll give a signal with my hand to "stay back" (put my hand out, palm toward the driver, and wave them away).

This is great advice.

[irabidfish]

I have run into a similar situation but on a thin, busy road. One stretch of my commute, about 200ft long is perennially packed with parked cars. The road is technically a 45, but 60 is probably more accurate. My choice is to either keep to right, and hug the cars, perhaps weaving in small gaps and giving traffic room to pass. Or, take the lane for about 200 ft.
Once you can make the initial leap of faith to take the lane, its smooth sailing. Alternatively sometimes I just don't have the emotional energy to take the lane and try to squeeze to the side. Usually when I do that I am in panic the entire time, and ride very nervously.
If I was a better cyclist, I would choose option 1 every time.

[zeytoun]

I think the "stay back" hand is the crucial extra detail here. It indicates that you are not just in the middle of the highway for no reason, and that you are aware of their presence, and working toward the "common good". It indicates that maybe you know something about the circumstances that they don't, like a car approaching around the bend.

Of course, I know the task is harder for a lot of people in more rural areas who have "thin, fast, busy" roads and much fewer route options...

[Allister]

I think you're doing the right thing. Pulling over is really only necessary if you're causing an extended obstruction, and even then don't feel like it's an obligation. I'll move closer to the kerb/edge when it's safe for them to pass, but I don't recall ever having to pull off the road entirely to let anyone pass. But ultimately that judgement call is your own on a case by case basis.

The rule of thumb seems to be that motorists pass you with about the same amount of room that you ride away from the kerb edge. I'm not sure why, it just is. If they have to move even slightly into the next lane, they will generally go even wider.

I predict you'll find once you take the trike out on the road that the response from motorists will be almost universally positive. The difference I noticed when I started recumbenting was nothing short of revelatory.

[chipcom]

make it painfully obvious to the overtaking vehicle that they cannot pass using the same lane.

Yepper, that's the ticket. Sometimes they'll get ticked off, honk, holler, etc., but the fact is that your safety is more important than their couple of seconds of inconvenience.

[fritz1255]

Take the lane - like ride in the middle of it? If you're cycling at 30-40 mph, sure, but at 10-15 mph, you're nothing short of an obstacle to traffic. I live in Amish country, and the Amish buggies travel at about 10 mph. They make every effort to keep to the right to let cars pass safely, same thing that I do while cycling. Funny how everybody's perspective changes depending on whether they are cycling or driving. The other guy is ALWAYS wrong, right?

[zeytoun]

They make every effort to keep to the right to let cars pass safely, same thing that I do while cycling. Funny how everybody's perspective changes depending on whether they are cycling or driving. The other guy is ALWAYS wrong, right?If it is too narrow for a car to pass safely, or other conditions (like oncoming traffic) make it dangerous to pass, what difference would it make to a responsible driver whether you are hugging the curb, riding in the right tire track, and riding in the middle of the road?

[Bikepacker67]

Discretion is the better part of valor.
But that doesn't mean we can't fantasize about TOW missiles and dynamo based EMP weapons....

[UnsafeAlpine]

Can I just point out HH's mantra might be really helpful in this situation? It sounds like "take the lane" is the appropriate thing to do. I think it would be much safer than trying to pull off in a spot, or giving just enough room for someone to think they can squeeze by.

[maddyfish]

It sounds like you're doing good, but maybe move a little farther left to make it more clear that there is not enough space to "squeeze by". As long as they can see you in the lane early on, they will not hit you. A mirror does help, because then you can see them slowing down or changing lanes safely.

If I was holding up cars for over a minute or so I'd pull over, as long as there was a safe spot to do so.

THis response is reasonable. I'd add to make absolutely sure you are visable. Trikes are low to the ground, and even more unusual to see a trike. So add a flag, lights, reflectors, whatever, be visable. \

And no black fairings, bright colors are your friends.

[Brian Ratliff]

Take the lane - like ride in the middle of it? If you're cycling at 30-40 mph, sure, but at 10-15 mph, you're nothing short of an obstacle to traffic. I live in Amish country, and the Amish buggies travel at about 10 mph. They make every effort to keep to the right to let cars pass safely, same thing that I do while cycling. Funny how everybody's perspective changes depending on whether they are cycling or driving. The other guy is ALWAYS wrong, right?

Do like the Amish do. Take the lane only when necessary. Like when going around bends in the road or when there are vehicles ahead. Give room when it is not necessary. That way, yes, you are an obstacle to traffic, on purpose, and you know it... but you are only an obstacle for a few 10's of seconds. This is an important cooperative gesture when on rural, no shoulder, 55mph highways.

[CommuterRun]

Stay to the right only if the lane is wide enough to safely share. This invites close passing. Otherwise, ride far enough to the left in the lane to make it blatantly obvious that they cannot pass without at least partially changing lanes. Hold your line when being passed or you may find yourself getting squeezed off the road.

The trailers I tow are at least as wide as a 'bent. On roads such as described in the OP, I use the same road position regardless whether I have a trailer in tow or not. Which is no further to the right than the right tire track. This gives me the entire right half of the right lane and passing motorists the other 3/4 of the road, on coming traffic allowing.

On a road like this I consider a 12' lane to be not wide enough to safely share, a 14' lane is marginal.

I have found that when riding in this manner, nearly all passing vehicles match my speed until there's room to pass, then completely change lanes to make the pass. Just as if passing any other vehicle.

[AndrewP]

I only move out into the middle of the lane if cars are approaching from both directions. Then when the car behind passes, I give a wave of acknowledgement.

[WriteABike]

It sounds like there's a pretty strong consensus for taking the lane. On a 40 mph road I ride, I've always done this. It seems like it takes more guts on a 55 mph highway; I just don't feel like I belong in the middle of the lane. I think it just takes some getting used to. I grew up on a 55 mph highway with a wide, paved shoulder, and I never crossed the white line into the lane. That highway had lots of traffic, though.

I think waving to drivers who've had to wait behind me is a good idea, too. I don't know what they're thinking, but a wave of appreciation can't hurt.

And, yes, I've definitely noticed that people give me more room when I'm on the trike. Coworkers often ask if the trike is more dangerous considering that my head is at bumper-level. With a day-glo orange tailsock and Superflash blinky, I think it's quite a bit safer.

[Allister]

It sounds like there's a pretty strong consensus for taking the lane. On a 40 mph road I ride, I've always done this. It seems like it takes more guts on a 55 mph highway; I just don't feel like I belong in the middle of the lane. I think it just takes some getting used to. I grew up on a 55 mph highway with a wide, paved shoulder, and I never crossed the white line into the lane. That highway had lots of traffic, though.

Can you give a map link to the road in question?

Usually the higher the speed of the road, the wider the lanes, but I realise that's not always the case. If there's a nice wide shoulder, I'd ride there.

Even without a shoulder, it's not necessary to ride in the middle of the lane at all times. I usually move a bit more into the lane only in situations when close passing is likely and I want to discourage it. As long as it's clear they have to at least partially leave the lane to pass you, you're far enough into the lane.

Another handy skill is getting used to close passes. Obviously they aren't ideal, and you do everything you can to prevent them, but they do happen. Keeping your cool and holding a stable line with traffic passing inches from your shoulder can save your life.

[JoeyBike]

I have a recumbent trike...

I hate to be that guy, but someone's got to say it:

1. Recumbent - Low and hard to see in all but the most ideal circumstances.

2. Trike - Wide, slow (generally), hard to maneuver.

If you were driving a car down the same road and there were two kids skateboarding side-by-side, how would you feel about it? Do you carry a portable brick wall to bang your head against when you ride too?

And don't forget that a TRI-cycle is not a BI-cycle. You may not even be protected by local laws on roadways and fall under the category of roller-skates etc. No Foolin! Check on it.

Before everybody flames the dickens out of me, look at the practicality of the whole thing. This thread would not even exist if the rider of such a thing was not seeing a problem too. I admire the spunkiness of the OP, and in a perfect world OK, but I would find a parking lot or a Rails To Trails to ride on or get that thing on eBay before someone (you) gets hurt.

Remember who had the guts to point out the obvious after the smoke clears.

[CommuterRun]

On a 55 mph road the difference in speed between cars and bikes renders the difference in speed between bikes and trikes moot. The same applies when I'm towing a trailer behind my bike. I'm wider and a little slower, but the speed differential isn't enough to matter.

The legal aspect as to trikes on the road in UT may be worth checking on, but in practice I'm generally given more room when I do have a trailer with me. As I understand, what I see with a trailer in tow is what trikes see all the time. That's even been pointed out on this thread.

Any problems with riding any pedal powered vehicle on roads such as described in the OP are nullified by being conspicuous and riding in a competent, confident and assertive manner.

The idea that trikes shouldn't be ridden where bikes can be because the trikes create some kind of imaginary problems is ridiculous.

[bikesafer]

Do like the Amish do. Take the lane only when necessary. Like when going around bends in the road or when there are vehicles ahead. Give room when it is not necessary. That way, yes, you are an obstacle to traffic, on purpose, and you know it... but you are only an obstacle for a few 10's of seconds. This is an important cooperative gesture when on rural, no shoulder, 55mph highways.

A bike is not an obstacle to traffic it is part of traffic. We have to stop apologizing for being in the traffic lane, we are part of traffic, and we are not impeding normal and reasonable movement of traffic if other traffic only has to wait a few seconds to safely get passed us.
The cooperative gesture would be for the motor vehicles to obey the law and pass safely even if they are inconvenienced for a few seconds.

[WriteABike]

According to Google Earth, the section of road I referred to is from
41 47'10.58" N, 111 59'13.94" W
to
41 46'05.83" N, 111 58'52.75" W

You can plug those coordinates into Google Earth and probably any internet map database. Anyway, it's a 1.25 mile stretch, and at the moment the satellite took the photo there was only one car on it, maybe two.

If you look at the satellite photos, you can see it's open farmland. I think it's ideal terrain for recumbent riding, trike or otherwise--flat, straight, and with few distractions. If drivers can see at all, they can see me. My speed on that stretch is between 17 (heading South in the morning) and 30 (going North in the afternoon; love those prevailing winds. Got to find me a bigger chainring.) I do take up more room than I would on a bike, but only because I can't ride with half my width hanging over the edge of the road.

As for legality, in Utah a trike is a human powered vehicle and the operator "has all the rights and is subject to the provisions of this chapter applicable to the operator of any other vehicle." Interestingly, though, they aren't subject to the same penalties for DUI.

Now once I get that electric-assist built, I might be in different territory. ;)

(Listen to me. I've really gotten sucked into the recumbent mindset. I even bought some Shimano sandals.)

[andrelam]

I've only pulled over once in the past 2300 miles of driving... I hear a snow plow coming down the street behind me. I pulled into the 1st driveway I could find. Once I saw the plow it turned out he was only salting, and didn't have the blade on. I was not going to try my luck. I also have a vested interest in giving the plow driver some room. The better job the plow can do the better the roads are for all of us.

Happy riding,
André

[ChipSeal]

1) Take the lane. Leave no doubt that an overtaking motorist must move into the oncoming lane to pass. If there is oncoming traffic, move even further left.

2) You are traffic! So is a street sweeper and farm equipment. Don't be concerned if folks are annoyed you are using a public road. They will get over it. :p Motorists are morally and legally required to overtake with due care and in a safe manner.

3) Taking the lane will reduce the chance that oncoming traffic will fail to see you if they they are considering overtaking vehicles traveling in their direction. :eek:

[Allister]

1) Take the lane. Leave no doubt that an overtaking motorist must move into the oncoming lane to pass. If there is oncoming traffic, move even further left.

The other advantage of doing that is that if someone does buzz by too closely, you've got a bit of room to move.

[CommuterRun]

3) Taking the lane will reduce the chance that oncoming traffic will fail to see you if they they are considering overtaking vehicles traveling in their direction. :eek:

It has been my experience that, for obvious reasons, this point in particular is very, very important. You do not want this to happen.

[atbman]

Take the lane - like ride in the middle of it? If you're cycling at 30-40 mph, sure, but at 10-15 mph, you're nothing short of an obstacle to traffic. I live in Amish country, and the Amish buggies travel at about 10 mph. They make every effort to keep to the right to let cars pass safely, same thing that I do while cycling. Funny how everybody's perspective changes depending on whether they are cycling or driving. The other guy is ALWAYS wrong, right?

There's another, identical thread, only instead of an Amish buggy, the comparison is with a 12' wide harvester. My feelings are the same as in t'other thread. When my arse is the same width as an Amish buggy and my speed is the same, I'll behave as they do. Until then, I'll take the lane or pull over according to the circumstances.

If a line of motor traficc was building up behind me, I'd pull over at the nearest safe spot. If a driver was having to wait for a few seconds until the road was wide/safe ennough for him/her to overtake, then I'd continue to take the lane. My safety is more important than another road user's time.

[Catweazle]

A bike is not an obstacle to traffic it is part of traffic. We have to stop apologizing for being in the traffic lane, we are part of traffic, and we are not impeding normal and reasonable movement of traffic if other traffic only has to wait a few seconds to safely get passed us.
The cooperative gesture would be for the motor vehicles to obey the law and pass safely even if they are inconvenienced for a few seconds.

Since taking up cycling as an older fella a few weeks back I've been interestedly reading stuff here in A&S and VC sections, and don't mind admitting that I've been a bit bemused by much of it. I don't rude in the traffic lane unless I need to, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with 'apologising'. Far as I'm concerned it's just common sense and courtesy.


On the highway I'll travel the shoulder the whole way, moving into the traffic lane only when I absolutely need to. The shoulders are wide and smooth, for the most part. About the only thing which requires me to move over are the occasional patches where roadworks have left the shoulder a bit rough to ride.

On secondary roads where there is a narrower shoulder I'll ride that, for the most part, moving into the lane when vehicles are approaching from both front and rear and making myself visible, but staying there and waving the approaching vehicle around if it's behind me only.

On narrow rural two lane farm roads I ride the traffic lane because there's no shoulder at all, but be more cautious of traffic. If trucks are approaching from both directions I'll slow down and get off onto the gravel, if cars are travelling too fast for my comfort I might do the same, but for most waving the rearward vehicle back suffices.

On narrow rural roads with only a single lane of bitumen I'll ride that, but I'm prepared to, if need be, head bush or into a ditch! **** getting dead just to prove a point if it's an idiot approaching!




Guess what? Pretty much all drivers (other than those occasional idiots) give me a wide berth, and a fairly substantial proportion of them give a wave of acknowledgement as they go past.

[Bekologist]

doesn't john forestor endorse not taking the lane on rural, high speed, narrow laned roads?

[Tude]

It sounds like you're doing good, but maybe move a little farther left to make it more clear that there is not enough space to "squeeze by". As long as they can see you in the lane early on, they will not hit you. A mirror does help, because then you can see them slowing down or changing lanes safely.

If I was holding up cars for over a minute or so I'd pull over, as long as there was a safe spot to do so.

Yes - what he said - at a safe spot. Cause sure as hell some road rage potential person is sitting there stewing - and while I want my piece of the road - I have to feel safe myself.

[sbhikes]

I hate to be that guy, but someone's got to say it:

1. Recumbent - Low and hard to see in all but the most ideal circumstances.

2. Trike - Wide, slow (generally), hard to maneuver.

You obviously have no experience with recumbent trikes.

I might be slow, but my trike is very maneuverable. No I won't be hopping any curbs but I can't do that on a road bike either. My friend often races the roadies that pass by and scoff at us. He and his trike are very fast. A trike is also as easy or easier to see (with a flag) than a dog in the road, and nothing is lower than the painted lines on the road yet everybody can see those.

Also, a mirror is needed on a trike because you can't turn your head as easily.

[JoeyBike]

A trike is also as easy or easier to see (with a flag) than a dog in the road, and nothing is lower than the painted lines on the road yet everybody can see those.

You mean the dog that will be going for your throat instead of your ankle? Or the dog that shouldn't be on the road either?

Those painted lines on the roadway are EXPECTED. Tricycles are not.

Is a trike less rude on the open road than a pair of cyclists riding two abreast?

How about your ability to see from down there? Unless you live in the flattest parts of Kansas it must be harder to see up ahead, over roadside vegetation, garden walls, embankments etc., which all make it harder for cars entering the road from side roads/driveways to see you.

Do you enjoy hearing that infernal flag flapping during your ride?

Should we even discuss riding a trike in the city during rush hour traffic - eye level with every exhaust pipe and bumper/grille in town and hidden behind any and all parked cars so that side street traffic will be T-boning you at every intersection? The same disasters await on the open road, just to a lesser extent I would hope.

Lets not forget that a trike has THREE wheels that do not follow the same line, giving you three times the chance of hitting potholes, debris, and emerging drains and manhole covers. Whereas my road bike has "footprint" about the width of a five cent US coin, which prevents me from slamming into every imperfection the road has to offer. If I place my wheels on the fog line, the left side of my bike and body only protrude into the traffic lane 9 inches at most. Since all three of your wheels are on the roadway I would imagine even the sleekest trike takes up 30 inches of roadway.

I fully realize that my posts here are offensive. That is not my intention. The OP opened this thread with a problem. The problem as I see it is caused to a large extent by the OP's choice of machines. You and your trike should be welcome on the road and I am not against it. But YOUR CHOICE of machines is increasing your level of aggravation, and the entire world is not going to change for your convenience.

And as I stated earlier - tricycles, wheelchairs, surries, rickshaws, pedi-cabs and such are either illegal to use on most state highways or require special permits.

At the very least, the OP should accept the fact that a tricycle adds to the dangers of cycling on high speed limit roadways and expect to be abused by motorists more so than a conventional bicycle.

[CommuterRun]

If I place my wheels on the fog line, the left side of my bike and body only protrude into the traffic lane 9 inches at most.

So, why are you hugging the curb? That is the most unsafe position to ride in, after the oncoming lane, on roads such as described in the OP.

In a situation when traffic is heavy on such a road, you are no in more visible that lane position on a bike than on a trike.

Last Sunday late morning I was out with the wife. She was driving, I was in the front passenger seat. Traffic was very light. Box truck in front of us. On a road very much like described in the OP with the exception of 4 ft. paved shoulders. Ahead of the truck I caught a glimpse of someone riding a road bike on the shoulder. I mentioned this to her to give her a heads-up. I knew she couldn't see the cyclist because of the truck, and she couldn't, until the truck passed the bike. By then we were almost up to him. He was doing about 20 on this flat, straight road.

[bikesafer]

On the highway I'll travel the shoulder the whole way, moving into the traffic lane only when I absolutely need to. The shoulders are wide and smooth, for the most part. About the only thing which requires me to move over are the occasional patches where roadworks have left the shoulder a bit rough to ride.

On secondary roads where there is a narrower shoulder I'll ride that, for the most part, moving into the lane when vehicles are approaching from both front and rear and making myself visible, but staying there and waving the approaching vehicle around if it's behind me only.

On narrow rural two lane farm roads I ride the traffic lane because there's no shoulder at all, but be more cautious of traffic. If trucks are approaching from both directions I'll slow down and get off onto the gravel, if cars are travelling too fast for my comfort I might do the same, but for most waving the rearward vehicle back suffices.

On narrow rural roads with only a single lane of bitumen I'll ride that, but I'm prepared to, if need be, head bush or into a ditch! **** getting dead just to prove a point if it's an idiot approaching!

Guess what? Pretty much all drivers (other than those occasional idiots) give me a wide berth, and a fairly substantial proportion of them give a wave of acknowledgement as they go past.

It's nice for you that you have wide smooth shoulders to ride on. I however, usually do not. I ride on paved shoulders if they are available, wide enough, and safe. If I'm going 20-30 mph,(or more on a downhill) riding on almost any shoulder isn't going to be safe especially the 18-24" ones I see most often.

I'm not planning on getting dead just to prove a point. Why do so many people think I and people like me have a death wish, that we're playing chicken with cars and trucks. I'm not trying to prove a point by taking a lane, I'm trying to force the driver who looks like they are going to sqeeze past me to make a choice, either kill a cyclist in cold blood and hope to get away with it or wait 5-10 seconds to pass safely.
Most people aren't cold blooded killers. If I'm in the middle of the lane, I'm checking over my shoulder every second or so and if a vehicle doesn't seem like they are going to slow down or move over, clearly I will because as I said I don't have a death wish.

I've been forced off onto the gravel more times than I care to remember. I' just saying I'm not going to ride there just to save a motorist 10 seconds off their drive.

If I pulled off onto the gravel every time trucks approached from both directions, it would take me twice as long to get where I'm going. And just for the record it doesn't matter if it's trucks or cars, they are all supposed to follow the law, which requires them to make room for other vehicles when passing, including bikes.

[JoeyBike]

So, why are you hugging the curb? That is the most unsafe position to ride in, after the oncoming lane, on roads such as described in the OP.

There exists scores of scenarios and road situations. If I am on a roadway in the city of two or more lanes going my direction, I hog the right lane and try to stay above 20 miles per hour. I am part of the traffic flow and only the most rare and boneheaded motorists freak out about it. Speed limits on these roads are 35 to 40.

If you put me on a state highway where traffic may be traveling at 60 mph on a road with one lane going my way, I am riding on the fog line or near it UNLESS the lane is really narrow. Then I try to take the lane. Even when there are two lanes going my way on a high-speed roadway I ride near the fog line when possible.

My riding technique in Metropolis during gridlock is totally different than my techniques in rural areas. Almost opposite. Metropolis would be suicide on a recumbent trike. More rural areas.....just stacking the odds against the cyclist getting wider with less options for lane positioning.

Below is a map of where I have cycled on a loaded touring bike through mostly rural areas. I have biked on Interstate highways and the narrowest of back country roads. I know what I am talking about here. Simply - if you want to ride a recumbent trike, you gotta accept that it is going to feel more dangerous than a conventional bike in some situations.

http://12.152.111.66/biketour/contents/map.jpg

[Catweazle]

I don't think we're too far different in actual approach, bikersafer, axcept for this bit:

If I pulled off onto the gravel every time trucks approached from both directions, it would take me twice as long to get where I'm going. And just for the record it doesn't matter if it's trucks or cars, they are all supposed to follow the law, which requires them to make room for other vehicles when passing, including bikes.


You ever actually driven trucks and other heavy vehicles? There's a but more 'difficulty' factor involved, and the handling characteristics are different etc etc. Yeah, there are plenty of 'cowboys' in trucks but that doesn't really alter the fact that by and large blokes in trucks deserve a bit more respect than they get even from blokes in cars, let alone bikes.

Anyways, on those narrow rural roads I was referring to there really shouldn't be heavy truck traffic, and around more populous areas there are usually roads to travel other than the ones trucks travel..

[bikesafer]

I don't think we're too far different in actual approach, bikersafer, axcept for this bit:




You ever actually driven trucks and other heavy vehicles? There's a but more 'difficulty' factor involved, and the handling characteristics are different etc etc. Yeah, there are plenty of 'cowboys' in trucks but that doesn't really alter the fact that by and large blokes in trucks deserve a bit more respect than they get even from blokes in cars, let alone bikes.

Anyways, on those narrow rural roads I was referring to there really shouldn't be heavy truck traffic, and around more populous areas there are usually roads to travel other than the ones trucks travel..

The blokes in trucks that purposely run me off the road or are to impatient to wait 5 seconds to pass safely neither deserve nor get any respect from me. If they want my respect on the road, obey the rules of the road like I do, and I'll respect them and their rights to the road.
And Yes, I have driven trucks and other heavy vehicles. The different handling characteristics are easily overcome by driving the vehicle in a more careful manner.

[CommuterRun]

http://12.152.111.66/biketour/contents/map.jpg

That's a lot of miles. Very impressive.:beer:

My experience has been somewhat different. I have found that riding too far to the right invites higher speed and closer passing. Both being more dangerous by decreasing any margin for error. It also invites oncoming vehicles to pass another as they are going past me. A very bad situation. And riding too far to the right leaves me no room to maneuver if a motorist does do something stupid.

I have found that this can be mitigated by generally keeping about 3', or more, of space to my right, in a 12 or less foot lane. The more space I keep to my right, the more I tend to get given on my left by passing motorists. Passing motorists also give me more room when I'm towing a trailer. Any one of which, of the three I have, are significantly wider than most bikes, all being two wheeled trailers. At 42" if there's a wider trike than my canoe/kayak trailer, I don't know of it, and yet at non-motorized speeds I find the difference in speed between towing a trailer or not, and the extra width, to be insignificant.

Things I have heard from passing motorists while towing the canoe trailer:

"DUDE, YOU ROCK!!" Accompanied by the offer of a beer, while we were moving. Which I politely declined.

"NOW THAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT!!" With a big grin and a thumbs up. (This one was last Tuesday.)

Things I have heard on more than one occasion from motorists while towing either the canoe trailer or the Burley Flatbed and we were stopped at a convenience store:

"Where can I get one?"

"How much do they cost?"

"How hard is it to tow?"

"How far away do you live?" In reference to how far I am going.

"Where are you coming from?" Also in reference to how far I am going.

Something I have never heard while taking up the extra width in the lane:

"GET OFF THE ROAD!!"

This tells me that most motorists don't consider the extra width nor slower speed significant, either.

[JoeyBike]

Passing motorists also give me more room when I'm towing a trailer.

I have thought of towing a kid trailer with a couple of lifelike dolls in it. That should make motorists pass with extra room!

I pull a trailer around town too. I can think of two times where pulling a trailer down the PCH would have cost me my life. There are lots of variables and risks to weigh before getting out of bed in the morning.

A trailer is a novelty that buys one a bit of cheer from passers by. For your interest in trailers, here is mine:

http://12.152.111.66/joeybike/bike_on_trailer.jpg

bikesatwork.com

[Ajenkins]

I fully realize that my posts here are offensive. That is not my intention. The OP opened this thread with a problem. The problem as I see it is caused to a large extent by the OP's choice of machines. You and your trike should be welcome on the road and I am not against it. But YOUR CHOICE of machines is increasing your level of aggravation, and the entire world is not going to change for your convenience.

Oh dear lord. You are so wrong, on so many levels, it's hard to know where to begin.

I think the only way you'll be able to figure it out is to get a trike, and ride it for a couple of months. Then report back to us.

Don't worry, you can thank me for the sage advice later.

[AlmostTrick]

http://12.152.111.66/joeybike/bike_on_trailer.jpg

Now that's what I call the ultimate take along repair kit... a complete spare bike!

[Bikepacker67]

Some of them may think she's a little old lady and I know a few that thought it was a form of wheelchair.

I hope (for your sake) you bit your tongue... :D