Road Cycling - sick and tired of this crap

`David Walsh is a huge credit to his profession, Greg Lemond has more nobility and love for the sport in his left pinkie than almost every other pro cyclist around (notwithstanding a few of the new guys, I hope...), and Betsy Andreu deserves a medal for standing up to the abuse she`s had to go through from the hierarchy.

The unsung heroes.`

Discuss.

[this post was spurred on by watching `hell on wheels` last night... I sat there watching with my wife saying `he cheated. him too... and him... oh,　him too... yep, and him... that dog? nah, think the dog was clean... but he cheated, him too...` it would have been funny if it wasn`t so sad]

zzzz

who cares.

people that love the sport?

people that can still shrug off the shroud of cynicism and get pissed off with these people who smile, lie and cheat?

maybe them?

I had a Selle Italia poster in my office with Basso. I liked the guy. I tried to educate my co-workers on the sport (I work in the industry).

Then I took it down.

Now I have a whiteboard with a list of stuff I need to get done.

ZZZ uh?

you're sick and tired of it, but you want to discuss it?

Seems to me the sport got along just fine until all the puritanical johnny-come-lately outsiders decided it was "sick". Now, instead of enjoying bike racing, we are bombarded from all directions by accusations, bans, sponsor withdrawals, and race cancellations.

So a serious suggestion: all of you folks who are so dreadfully concerned about the state of the sport can **** off back to the health club or wherever you came from, and the rest of us can get back to enjoying the sport as it was successfully practiced for the past hundred years or so.

blah, blah, etc.....

you're sick and tired of it, but you want to discuss it?
And the winner is.........^^^^^

who cares.

Almost nobody.

people that love the sport?

Almost nobody.

Seems to me the sport got along just fine until all the puritanical johnny-come-lately outsiders decided it was "sick". Now, instead of enjoying bike racing, we are bombarded from all directions by accusations, bans, sponsor withdrawals, and race cancellations.

So a serious suggestion: all of you folks who are so dreadfully concerned about the state of the sport can **** off back to the health club or wherever you came from, and the rest of us can get back to enjoying the sport as it was successfully practiced for the past hundred years or so.

That's right, stick your head in the sand...Makes it kinda tough to pedal...

Greg Lemond brought professional cycling to America and Americans. I thought he was great when I was younger. For the last 10 years, he has basically been bitter about any American successful in the European circuit. He badmouthed Armstrong from day 1 since he must be doping to ride so well. He did the same to Landis. I feel he was threatened by another American's success so he had to badmouth them. That is not very mature.

Also, remember when Lemond rode, the drugs weren't even tested for. Nobody cared and the tour has been the testing grounds for performance drugs for 90 years. I have read about amphetimines, strichnine, pot bilge, etc. from the beginning of recorded time on the Tour. But holier than thou, Lemond will tell anyone who will listen that he was the only successful American rider who rode clean. Sour Grapes and Jealosy abound. I am not impressed.

He has done so much for cycling, bull. He has made a damn good living off of it, period. Take these guys off the pedestals and look at them for who they really are.

`David Walsh is a huge credit to his profession, Greg Lemond has more nobility and love for the sport in his left pinkie than almost every other pro cyclist around (notwithstanding a few of the new guys, I hope...), and Betsy Andreu deserves a medal for standing up to the abuse she`s had to go through from the hierarchy.

The unsung heroes.`


This entire post is BULLS@#$

So a serious suggestion: all of you folks who are so dreadfully concerned about the state of the sport can **** off back to the health club or wherever you came from, and the rest of us can get back to enjoying the sport as it was successfully practiced for the past hundred years or so.

+1

cyclists have been cheating for as long as it has been a sport of cycling
for that matter...
humans have been cheating for as long as there have been humans

the Tour de France was created by French newspaper owners for the sole purpose of selling more newspapers

and what sells more newspapers?... a bunch of oddly dressed weenies who ride around on bikes?
or a bunch of oddly dressed weenies who ride around on bikes AND cheat to win?

ya don't mess with tradition! :p

hmmm.... that would be a hilarious SouthPark episode. Oh wait... they did that yesterday.

That's right, stick your head in the sand...Makes it kinda tough to pedal...
Yeah, this sport really sucked during the Hinault years. And the Gimondi years. And the Merckx years, the Bobet years, the Coppi years, the Pelissier years, the Girardengo years...

During all that time the sport was no good and had no fans. Only during the last decade of witch hunts, scandals, massive-scale drug testing, and general anti-doping hysteria has the sport become interesting and watchable.:rolleyes:

Who cares?


Almost nobody.

Including the sponsors.

He badmouthed Armstrong from day 1 since he must be doping to ride so well. He did the same to Landis. I feel he was threatened by another American's success so he had to badmouth them. .


Lemond was actually stating that Landis's win was probably the first clean win at the Tour in a long time. It was'nt until Floyd's positive test came to light when Lemond changed his opinion.

i like dope. but my KIND does NOT make me faster :)

Greg Lemond brought professional cycling to America and Americans. I thought he was great when I was younger. For the last 10 years, he has basically been bitter about any American successful in the European circuit. He badmouthed Armstrong from day 1 since he must be doping to ride so well. He did the same to Landis. I feel he was threatened by another American's success so he had to badmouth them. That is not very mature.

Also, remember when Lemond rode, the drugs weren't even tested for. Nobody cared and the tour has been the testing grounds for performance drugs for 90 years. I have read about amphetimines, strichnine, pot bilge, etc. from the beginning of recorded time on the Tour. But holier than thou, Lemond will tell anyone who will listen that he was the only successful American rider who rode clean. Sour Grapes and Jealosy abound. I am not impressed.

He has done so much for cycling, bull. He has made a damn good living off of it, period. Take these guys off the pedestals and look at them for who they really are.

Incorrect.

Very incorrect.

Completely incorrect.

Just flat out wrong.

Greg Lemond brought professional cycling to America and Americans. I thought he was great when I was younger. For the last 10 years, he has basically been bitter about any American successful in the European circuit. He badmouthed Armstrong from day 1 since he must be doping to ride so well. He did the same to Landis. I feel he was threatened by another American's success so he had to badmouth them. That is not very mature.

Also, remember when Lemond rode, the drugs weren't even tested for. Nobody cared and the tour has been the testing grounds for performance drugs for 90 years. I have read about amphetimines, strichnine, pot bilge, etc. from the beginning of recorded time on the Tour. But holier than thou, Lemond will tell anyone who will listen that he was the only successful American rider who rode clean. Sour Grapes and Jealosy abound. I am not impressed.

He has done so much for cycling, bull. He has made a damn good living off of it, period. Take these guys off the pedestals and look at them for who they really are.


Also wrong. Strychnine* is rat poison. And WTF is "pot bilge"?

*strychnine also was never present in LSD

Is this guy trying to sound like an older, cynical Ryanf?

If serious.....at least spell things correctly, and try to avoid making yourself sound like a complete dumbass.


have read about amphetimines, strichnine, pot bilge, etc. from the beginning of recorded time on the Tour.

Really? You've been reading about it since the first Tour started?



I am not impressed.

Also wrong. Strychnine* is rat poison. And WTF is "pot bilge"?

*strychnine also was never present in LSD
Just google the words "tour de france" and "strychnine".

Incorrect.

Very incorrect.

Completely incorrect.

Just flat out wrong.
Which part is wrong? That there was no dope testing? Okay, there was dope testing, in the most technical sense of the word. Of course, they almost never caught anybody, despite the fact that widespread doping was an open secret, and when they did, nothing much was done about it. Dope testing for show, essentially.

And yet for some reason, cycling during the time was immensely popular, which certainly seems to support the idea that nobody cared.

Of course, now that the crusaders have taken it upon themselves to "save" the sport, things have gone completely to hell. Coincidence, no doubt. :rolleyes:

Which part is wrong? That there was no dope testing? Okay, there was dope testing, in the most technical sense of the word. Of course, they almost never caught anybody, despite the fact that widespread doping was an open secret, and when they did, nothing much was done about it. Dope testing for show, essentially.

And yet for some reason, cycling during the time was immensely popular, which certainly seems to support the idea that nobody cared.

Of course, now that the crusaders have taken it upon themselves to "save" the sport, things have gone completely to hell. Coincidence, no doubt. :rolleyes:

When I was a university student I wrote a research paper about drugs in sport. I focused on cycling. A brief sysnopsis:

During WWII the world's #1 distributor of amphetamines was the US military. After the war there was a LOT of this stuff left over and plenty of people who knew how to use it and how to make it. There was a shift in attitudes in the 50's and 60's and people started to care. With more scientific training methods developed in the 70's and 80's people began to consider the health risks involved with some of the substances being used for doping. This coincided with the fact that the types of drugs that riders started using also became more sophisticated.

With many European stadiums in ruins after WWII (ever been to Belgium?) and the funds needed to rebuild them in short supply, cycling was a low cost distraction for war weary Europeans on a budget. As a result, the shear number of races that were held increased dramatically after WWII. The demands on riders began to increase and more turned to drugs simply to keep up. Typically, riders would spend hours driving to get to a race, racing, and then hop back into the car to drive to another town. BTW, This doesn't include the massively popular six-days pre-WWII. That's for another post.

Then, as now, drug cheats were always at least 1 or 2 steps ahead of the poorly funded testers. If you look at the positives that WERE reported they usually happened after a new test was developed. As soon as that happened, riders were on to the next drug and positives fell off again. We are still locked in this cycle.

As far as people giving a damn, they did then, too. Another key difference between then and now was the ability to transmit and disperse this information (globally) and the interest by the media. The internets solved this problem and the modern Olympics had a great deal to do with the new found interest by the media and the sporting public in doping and doping stories.

You mentioned strychnine being used. I remember reading about a pre-WWII track rider bragging that he (Bobet and his brother?) bragging that they had become so immune to it that they had to take doses that were normally fatal. Again, for another post.

So, there was drug testing and drug cheats and they faced the same issues that we see today, non?

i was going to call my dog `Basso`.

but then he got caught.

so the dog`s called Lance... oh, wait -

When I was a university student I wrote a research paper about drugs in sport. I focused on cycling. A brief sysnopsis:

During WWII the world's #1 distributor of amphetamines was the US military. After the war there was a LOT of this stuff left over and plenty of people who knew how to use it and how to make it. There was a shift in attitudes in the 50's and 60's and people started to care. With more scientific training methods developed in the 70's and 80's people began to consider the health risks involved with some of the substances being used for doping. This coincided with the fact that the types of drugs that riders started using also became more sophisticated.

With many European stadiums in ruins after WWII (ever been to Belgium?) and the funds needed to rebuild them in short supply, cycling was a low cost distraction for war weary Europeans on a budget. As a result, the shear number of races that were held increased dramatically after WWII. The demands on riders began to increase and more turned to drugs simply to keep up. Typically, riders would spend hours driving to get to a race, racing, and then hop back into the car to drive to another town. BTW, This doesn't include the massively popular six-days pre-WWII. That's for another post.

Then, as now, drug cheats were always at least 1 or 2 steps ahead of the poorly funded testers. If you look at the positives that WERE reported they usually happened after a new test was developed. As soon as that happened, riders were on to the next drug and positives fell off again. We are still locked in this cycle.

As far as people giving a damn, they did then, too. Another key difference between then and now was the ability to transmit and disperse this information (globally) and the interest by the media. The internets solved this problem and the modern Olympics had a great deal to do with the new found interest by the media and the sporting public in doping and doping stories.

You mentioned strychnine being used. I remember reading about a pre-WWII track rider bragging that he (Bobet and his brother?) bragging that they had become so immune to it that they had to take doses that were normally fatal. Again, for another post.

So, there was drug testing and drug cheats and they faced the same issues that we see today, non?
During my time -- 1980s -- amphetamine use was widespread, almost universal. Testing was simple, cheap, and accurate. Yet almost no one got caught, and the ones that were got slaps on the wrist. Moreover, injuries and deaths from amphetamine use were essentially unheard of, although some riders did develop recreational habits upon retirement. Amphetamine use was an open secret and received a wink and a nod from riders, officials, and fans alike. The sport thrived, and it's hard for me to see the problem.

Now, though, drugs are front and center in bike racing. You can't get away from it, and even those who try to enjoy the sport they once loved are slapped in the face with the issue over and over. Champions are prevented from participating, sponsors are leaving in droves, and fans are giving up in disgust. And the powers that be insist the answer is even more of the same. This is simply stupid, regardless of how high one's horse is.

During my time -- 1980s -- amphetamine use was widespread, almost universal. Testing was simple, cheap, and accurate. Yet almost no one got caught, and the ones that were got slaps on the wrist. Moreover, injuries and deaths from amphetamine use were essentially unheard of, although some riders did develop recreational habits upon retirement. Amphetamine use was an open secret and received a wink and a nod from riders, officials, and fans alike. The sport thrived, and it's hard for me to see the problem.

Now, though, drugs are front and center in bike racing. You can't get away from it, and even those who try to enjoy the sport they once loved are slapped in the face with the issue over and over. Champions are prevented from participating, sponsors are leaving in droves, and fans are giving up in disgust. And the powers that be insist the answer is even more of the same. This is simply stupid, regardless of how high one's horse is.

I agree.

The real concern started when young riders began dropping dead from using things like EPO. Suddenly these drugs, which seemed necessary at the time, evolved into new drugs which began killing people (For ex: 22 year old Dutch rider dies in his sleep because his heart couldn't pump syrup through his veins). The dynamics shifted. A wink was no longer enough. There was blood on peoples hands and the sport has never been the same.

`David Walsh is a huge credit to his profession, Greg Lemond has more nobility and love for the sport in his left pinkie than almost every other pro cyclist around (notwithstanding a few of the new guys, I hope...), and Betsy Andreu deserves a medal for standing up to the abuse she`s had to go through from the hierarchy.

The unsung heroes.`

Discuss.

[this post was spurred on by watching `hell on wheels` last night... I sat there watching with my wife saying `he cheated. him too... and him... oh,　him too... yep, and him... that dog? nah, think the dog was clean... but he cheated, him too...` it would have been funny if it wasn`t so sad]

no (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=96).

<snip>
You mentioned strychnine being used. I remember reading about a pre-WWII track rider bragging that he (Bobet and his brother?) bragging that they had become so immune to it that they had to take doses that were normally fatal. Again, for another post.

I had read about it before, but the material I read discussed the urban legend of it being used as an adulterant with LSD before it got to the other effects.

I stand corrected.

Hey LBD. Thanks for the BS post, excuse any misspellings especially since I usually pretty tired when I fool around with all you self-proclaimed geniuses. Spend some time reading about the Tour, then question what pot bilge is. Almost every longstanding tour legend of old has been quoted about the drugs currently in use. Everything was tried, several people died, etc. By the way, I believe you will inspire more people to become involved in this forum with the dumbass remarks. Lately, many posts refer to the attitude on this forum, and sadly I must agree. I am not impressed.