Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - What would you buy?

Seeing as how I'm probably riding on borrowed time... If you were hard on stuff, what rim/hub/spoke combo would you get for a fixed gear? I'm not wanting to get a flip flop this time, so that's not a need.

I'm a 192 lbs, and not all that gentle. I've heard alot about phil woods hubs recently.. and surly hubs. I"m looking for something bomb proof, but not wallet busting. Rims and spokes as well..

Tips, advice, avoids? Anything helps.

Another note, what spoke count is preferable, and, why are there higher amount spoke counts available? What benefit is this?

More spokes in a wheel generaly the stronger it is. A standard 32 spoke wheel should be fine, if you want the most bomb proof hub phil wood is definately the way to go but they are expensive no question about it. They are high flange hubs which also should give a bit more strenght since the spokes are shorter, then how about those laced to some Velocity Deep V rims would be a bombproof wheelset (Is what I ride) :) Since the rim is so aero you coudl go with a lower spoke count wheel, now not everyone likes aero rims so on the other end of the spectrum you might look at the Mavic Open Pro or the velocity Aero rim.

Here is reviews of their road hubs
http://www.roadbikereview.com/Hubs/Phil+Wood+&+Company+Road+Front+Hub+and+Rear+Hub/PRD_50250_2500crx.aspx

Here is some revies of their hubs BB etc..
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/manufacturers/2926/

Now you know you have to take these reviews with grain of salt, but when you consider the high scores that all phil wood products get. Now I'm not saying Surly's are bad, I've heard they have very good seals but you are comparing a $60 hub to a $150 hub. I've heard good things about the surly hubs, they will last you years most likely. A phil on the other hand will last you decades :)

I'd have gotten Phil's if I could have afforded them at the time, but so far I haven't had a problem with a Surly rear hub/ old suntour high flange front laced to Velocity Aero rims. 36 spoke, radial front, 3x rear. Wheelsmith spokes, nothin fancy.
They've worked great and taken all the on and off road abuse I've dished out over the past year. I'm about 50lb lighter than you though.

Thanks. I'm not to concerned about areo; the bike isn't going to see track use.. so I would think, (emphasizes on think) that it is a no need item. I'm thinking strenght, durability, and something that doesn't need constant maintenance.

[QUOTE=Kev] ... if you want the most bomb proof hub phil wood is definately the way to go but they are expensive no question about it. .... then how about those laced to some Velocity Deep V rims would be a bombproof wheelset (Is what I ride) :)

Hello...

I can attest to this as well. I'm 245 lbs and actually spoke to the folks at velocity. They suggested the Deep Vee. I've been really happy with the phil/deep vee combo.

jim

[QUOTE=Kev]
I can attest to this as well. I'm 245 lbs and actually spoke to the folks at velocity. They suggested the Deep Vee. I've been really happy with the phil/deep vee combo.

jim

Jim, you've got a single speed, not a fixed though, right? I went to see a picture of this rim and found a post you made that had a picture.

I think that being that I'm going for fixed, it might make a difference.

"Thanks. I'm not to concerned about areo; the bike isn't going to see track use.. so I would think, (emphasizes on think) that it is a no need item. I'm thinking strenght, durability, and something that doesn't need constant maintenance."


An aero rim is usually stronger than a box rim, but also usually heavier. So while its aerodynamic profile won't make a difference if you're not racing, you'll be able to use shorter spokes and be able to build a stronger, more durable wheel.

An aero rim is usually stronger than a box rim, but also usually heavier. So while its aerodynamic profile won't make a difference if you're not racing, you'll be able to use shorter spokes and be able to build a stronger, more durable wheel.


This, I did not know! Thanks!

Jim, you've got a single speed, not a fixed though, right? I went to see a picture of this rim and found a post you made that had a picture.

I think that being that I'm going for fixed, it might make a difference.

Hi William...

You're right, I am single-speed right now but the Phil Wood hub is a flip flop hub and I did mention to the folks at Velocity that I would be trying fixed gear .... and I'm 50 lbs heavier than you so i'm guessing the setup would work well for you. Did you see the pix of my Surly or Rodriguez? The Phil Wood/Deep Vee setup is on the latter.

Take Care...

Jim

i have phil high flange hubs laced to open pros. never had any trouble with them, but then again i'm 5'5" and weigh 125ish...sooo...i'd actually go for mavic CXP33s for maximum durability and strength. i'm sure the velocity deep v's are good, but i don't think they are eyeletted, which can make a difference...if you're not into the whole aero thing, open pros or MA3s would be nive as well.

oh, and not all phil hubs are high flange. they make a low flange hub for a little less. the high flange hubs are monstrous and oh so smooth. they come in gold, black, and silver. if i ever get around to getting a new wheelset, it's going to be black phils with black spokes to black CXP 33s with a 650c front.

I'm trying to grok all this to fullness..

:D

are you sure phils hubs come in gold?

are you sure phils hubs come in gold?

yeah...i saw them last year at cambridge bikes in cambridge, MA. and i know they were phils...i had them in my hands, and other people told me about them, and i'm pretty sure i didn't dream it...they looked pretty heinous though. they were the same gold color that nitto used on their gold bars and stems...

unfortunately, i can't find any info on them anywhere (even on the phil wood website, but that's no bike surprise because they don't have the color options listed). but yeah...they do exist...somewhere.

yeah they sound kinda heinous...but they'd be some smoooth fugly hubs though

One thing nice about phil wood is serviceability, I've heard you can easily service them I have not had to yet so can't speak from first hand experience. You can get any drilling you want but it will cost more.

I posted a pic of my bike a bit ago with the wheelset using phil wood hubs.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=33644

William, I am 6'0", 182 lbs and have run the Phil Wood high flange track hubs for almost 2 years. I have never had a problem with them. They are silky smooth and strong. With a nice pair of Open Pro rims (or even MA3's if the price of the hubs dent your walet too much) they make a great wheel set.

Stay away from gold parts! There is nothing worse than seeing a Mercedes Benz where all the trim has been replaced with gold. Way too pimp!

Thanks to all. It's given me enough to chew now.. and it's time to start search for a new frame. My current one is a tad bit small for me anyway.

Surly - Steamroller
SOMA - Rush
Gunner - Streetdog
Just a quick list for your consideration. Graduated in ride, build quality and price. The SOMA is the best buy for the money.

William, I am 6'0", 182 lbs and have run the Phil Wood high flange track hubs for almost 2 years. I have never had a problem with them. They are silky smooth and strong. With a nice pair of Open Pro rims (or even MA3's if the price of the hubs dent your walet too much) they make a great wheel set.

Stay away from gold parts! There is nothing worse than seeing a Mercedes Benz where all the trim has been replaced with gold. Way too pimp!

http://www.mavic.com/servlet/srt/mavic/road-prod_fiche?product.id=57&lg=uk#

Are these too areo? Cost?

Surly hub, Sun CR18 rim, 3 cross lacing w/ 14/15 spokes. Simple, strong, reasonable cost.

Surly hub, Sun CR18 rim, 3 cross lacing w/ 14/15 spokes. Simple, strong, reasonable cost.
Is there anywhere to read up on spokes (what who how etc) and the lacing? I'm pretty curious about the idea behind it.. sort of a primer on wheel ideas?

Surly hub, Sun CR18 rim, 3 cross lacing w/ 14/15 spokes. Simple, strong, reasonable cost.

Riderx speaks the truth.

By the way, what makes the Phil hub more serviceable than, say, the surly or the miche...All of these hubs have replaceable cartridge style bearings. Can you service Phil hubs without cone wrenches?

BK

Actualy the CXP33 is 25mm tall so 4mm shorter then the Velocity Deep V it is a good compromise weight and aero.

I also have a wheelset built up on Sun Venus with same profile, the silver rim looks great with a silver hub :)

As for hubs the Surly is a good choice or the Surly ($110 for set) Miche (drawback single sided $110 for set)Suzue Promax NJS ($140 for set).. Shimano($150 for set) or phil wood($250for set).. Only real expensive out of those is the philwood.

Riderx speaks the truth.

By the way, what makes the Phil hub more serviceable than, say, the surly or the miche...All of these hubs have replaceable cartridge style bearings. Can you service Phil hubs without cone wrenches?

BK


yeah, you can. the "cone nuts" are just big 8mm allen bolts that i think screw into another part of the axle that may or may not come out easily. i've only gone as far as taking out the 8mm bolts. conventiently enough, the part of the axle that goes in the dropouts is also part of the axle bolt, which is nice if you ever happen to bend one, because then all you have to do is replace that bolt, instead of unthreading all of the cone nuts and lock nuts, then dealing with all the bearings and such. not that you'd ever actually bend one of those...

yeah, you can. the "cone nuts" are just big 8mm allen bolts that i think screw into another part of the axle that may or may not come out easily. i've only gone as far as taking out the 8mm bolts. conventiently enough, the part of the axle that goes in the dropouts is also part of the axle bolt, which is nice if you ever happen to bend one, because then all you have to do is replace that bolt, instead of unthreading all of the cone nuts and lock nuts, then dealing with all the bearings and such. not that you'd ever actually bend one of those...

That's fat, OTS.

Word to William Karsten: read Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel" if you want a quick read that breaks down the science behind bike wheels to itty-bitty chunks. It is an excellent resource, but it is out of print. Good luck finding it. Jobst Brandt is cantankerous engineer from California who does his best to poke holes in bike industry hype with unyielding logic and cold hard physics. Some of his posts (tongue lashings, in some cases) can be found archived here:

http://yarchive.net/bike/index.html

Peace,
BK

Is there anywhere to read up on spokes (what who how etc) and the lacing? I'm pretty curious about the idea behind it.. sort of a primer on wheel ideas?

This book is execellent.

The Art of Wheelbuilding (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0964983532/ref=pd_sxp_f/104-8990283-5447943?v=glance&s=books) by Gerd Schraner.

Thanks. The surly hubs definately save coin over the phil woods, just a matter of deciding which fits better. I'm gonna hunt my local library for a copy of that..

That's fat, OTS.

Word to William Karsten: read Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel" if you want a quick read that breaks down the science behind bike wheels to itty-bitty chunks. It is an excellent resource, but it is out of print. Good luck finding it.
Peace,
BK

BK,
I didn't think Brandts book is out of print, I bought a copy less than a
year ago. Excel sports (http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=The+Bicycle+Wheel&vendorCode=BOOK&major=3&minor=1) lists it (but a few other catalogues aer not listing it now
even tho they previously did).
Amazon does list it as out of print but shows limited availablity.
Barnes and Noble shows it in stock.
If you're gonna build wheels this is the one to get.

Marty

http://yarchive.net/bike/index.html


i bet if you got sheldon and jobst into the same room at the same time, the universe would explode.

i bet if you got sheldon and jobst into the same room at the same time, the universe would explode.


> Track bikes have higher bottom brackets, shorter cranks and shorter
> pedals than road bikes, by and large, to allow them to cope with
> these extreme angles.

I think if you put a pedal down and lean the track bike, you'll see
that this is not the case. I'm sure your bike shop has a track bike.

oooooh DISSSSSS!!!! (http://yarchive.net/bike/track_riding.html)

I'm wondering: I see Phil Woods offers a 36 spoke count, yet Surly offers a 32 spoke count. More spokes = more strenght? Or, does it really matter?

You could also order custom drilling from Phil wood and get 48 count if you really want..

NOw 32/36 count wheels there is a difference in strength but there is also other factors involved.. rim seleceted.. spokes selected.. wheelbuilder which can have as large a effect on the strength of the wheel.

I'm wondering: I see Phil Woods offers a 36 spoke count, yet Surly offers a 32 spoke count. More spokes = more strenght? Or, does it really matter?
You should be fine w/ 32, just build the wheel properly or have someone who knows what they are doing do it.

Awesome info!!! Thanks. I'm thinking that if I can find a good builder, I'll go with a surly hub, and that mavic rim..

oooooh DISSSSSS!!!! (http://yarchive.net/bike/track_riding.html)

Word. Jobst is a freakin' cyborg->half man, half machine, and oh-so salty.

I love it
BK

Surly hub laced to a mavic rim should give you a very strong wheelset, I have not heard any complaints about the surly hubs and for the price they shound like a great deal.

I'd go for Mavic CXP33 rims myself. The Velocitys are uneyeletted, the the holes are drilled vertically and not towards the hubs, and they're not welded.

32h cross 3 should be fine under the hands of a decent wheel builder, but if you're a basher, maybe 36 cross 3 would be safer. I'm 205 and don't have a problem with the CXPs, but it does largely depend on how good your builder is. A good builder is worht their weight in, er, gold hubs.

I'd go for Mavic CXP33 rims myself. The Velocitys are uneyeletted, the the holes are drilled vertically and not towards the hubs, and they're not welded.

32h cross 3 should be fine under the hands of a decent wheel builder, but if you're a basher, maybe 36 cross 3 would be safer. I'm 205 and don't have a problem with the CXPs, but it does largely depend on how good your builder is. A good builder is worht their weight in, er, gold hubs.

Problem becomes #1, finding a 36 hole hub (aside from phil woods), and #2, finding a good builder.

I'm not a basher, but I've been known not to be extremely gentely either.

Problem becomes #1, finding a 36 hole hub (aside from phil woods)

suzue promax and junior both come in 36 hole versions. dura-ace 7100 (low flange) and 7600 (high flange) both come in 36 hole versions, as do the campy low and high flange hubs. miche hubs come in 36 hole versions.


and #2, finding a good builder.

now that i can't help ya with.

Are you sure they are not welded Thyalcine? I thought they were but this would not be the first time I was wrong :)

Good wheel builder you might want to check out businesscycles I had a wheelset built by them for my one bike it has been great. He has a some suggested builds on his web site, but you can call him up and discuss other options. As for 36 hole how about some Suzue ProMax NJS Hubs now if just more options for NJS rims :)

#2, finding a good builder.
This guy has a great reputation.

Gravy Wheels (http://www.gravywheels.net/index.htm)

suzue promax and junior both come in 36 hole versions. dura-ace 7100 (low flange) and 7600 (high flange) both come in 36 hole versions, as do the campy low and high flange hubs. miche hubs come in 36 hole versions.



now that i can't help ya with.

I want nothing to do with Suzue any longer.

Thanks for the alternatives!! I'll start looking into those! I've never heard of Miche hubs before..

Check out repartocorse.com they carry miche hubs also chucksbikes carries the full miche track group for abotu $280 I think it is.. The miche hubs actualy are fairly nice, most common description of them is Campy clones, partialy because of looks and they are italian. There web site is http://www.miche.it

Don't let the cheap basic suzue hub through you off on suzue quality of their higher end stuff.. It would be like saying a geo metro handles horribly, so should a corvette.

i think campy manufactured some stuff for miche a while back. their older headsets look VERY similar...but i could be wrong...

surly hubs with sun venus rims are a great combo. pretty cheap as well. surly hubs are sealed and smooth and not to pricey. sun venus rims are aero and nice looking and have eyelets and are machined and welded. the new paul fixie hubs look nice as well but I am sure they are pretty pricey

I built up a pair of Sun Venus rims to Miche hubs, I like the nice solid silver goes very well together!!