Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - It's Like A Jungle Sometimes...

I’m talking to this cop who says, “are you crazy?” . I had asked him what was the best way to get from the Southwest Side to the Lake by bicycle. He paused to check out my white skin and Izod shirt. “I see your beep east of Ashland I’ll toss you in the beeping squad and kick your beeping beep all the way home myself.” He’s both right and wrong; the South East Side of Chicago is no place for a white kid on a hand made Italian bicycle wearing lycra. Once you pass Roosevelt heading south, pret near all the way to Indiana you’re not going to find a Chipolte anytime soon, although a surprising number of shiny Escalades. At the same time, cops spend too much of their lives dealing with the horrors of human nature.

Fixie brings a sense of adventure and it’s the middle of the day so I decide on Garfield aka 55th; it’s nice and wide all the way down to the lake, a good cycling street. Starting at Cicero and heading east, things turn from white to brown to black according to a distinct grid, so precise it makes you wonder. Once you cross the tracks just past Lawndale you won’t be seeing anymore Polish grandmothers getting their hair fixed, but you can score all the paletas and chicarones you can eat. East of Western, all the way to the lake it’s black, been black awhile, gonna be black awhile more too. My fear and apprehension keeps my cadence high. I’m vulnerable and nervous and afraid of black people and what I've got myself into, and once you’re in, there’s no way out but forward, so I keep pedaling, trying to calm myself, trying to take a real look around and assess for myself what goes on in these neighborhoods (my favorite is to take note of the names of all the beauty salon’s along the way, very clever). East of the Dan Ryan the poverty thickens, anger's closer to the surface, the despair cuts lines in the faces of the people on the streets, boarded up windows, beat up cars held together with bailing wire, LINK card signs in every gated shop window. Wide-eyed, they check me out as I spin past, silent stares with deep feelings handed down generation to generation, feelings of desperation, feelings of subjugation, displacement, Jim Crow, reparation; they know that I know just what they’re thinking, they shout it out with their eyes “we’ll stay out of your neighborhood, you stay out of ours.” Fixie lets you see and feel the city at a speed that’s just fast enough, if you know what I’m saying. Hyde Park and the University of Chicago, hometown of nuclear fission and I’m safe, I think they’ve got a Starbucks there too (out of the 100 or so in Chicago only 4 are on the South Side).

It’s become a regular route for me now, actually, I like 71st better, there’s more shops and people to watch; usually some foxy lady will say, all tantalizing and suggestive, “hey baby, how you doin?”, that’s what really keeps me coming back. If you’re from Chicago it’s common to see people standing in the street looking back to see where’s the bus (the CTA, notoriously mismanaged, is gonna boost it’s fairs again, which will hurt these people the most, the working poor. The new fair amounts to a gallon of milk a week, which is significant if you’re counting each penny). This old lady, Miss Maybell no doubt, dressed all in red with a big hat to match, starts yelling at me one day, “hey, bike man, where’s the damn bus”. People are always waiting on the bus. “Just passed it at Ashland, it should be here in four minutes” Cyclists are intimate with speed and distance so my estimation is accurate. I’ve made it my duty to watch the buses and shout updates as I pass the bus stops, “Damen, about seven minutes back” “3 stuck at Halsted, ten minutes more easy.” News isn’t always good, but at least they know.

My fear has mellowed, but I dress down and don’t call too much attention to myself, don’t detour onto the side streets, and stay outa there after dark, for shizzle. When a carload of young black men pass by with the bass thumbing, I still get a zero to the bone. I’m feeling pretty cool one day east of the Ryan, doing my track stand, waiting on the light or traffic to clear, whichever happens first, when this big black guy, with deep dark eyes and more than his share of menace, comes up to me and says, “who’s you?” “My name’s Mayonnaise” (I actually said this). “why she call you Mayonnaise?” he says. “Because it tastes so good on white bread,” I say. I can only thank God for these words, I have no idea where they came from so suddenly. There’s a pause and then he bursts out laughing, like he hasn’t laughed in two years, like his laughter just cured cancer, like it just snapped clean the hangman’s noose. His laughter is infectious. We laugh together. The light changes and I start out...”you alright brother Mayonnaise,” he shouts, still laughing.

Lots of feelings there.
Feelings I has when walking through government housing projects in the Virgin Islands. Seing groups of young men on the stoop yelling out asking me if I wanted to buy pot. Just a laugh and an explination that the company would drug test me for sure after visiting this place. They laughed and asked me if I was from Wisconsin because that's the only place they knew where people as white as me came from. They were only about 120 miles off. Good guys, I was glad I was dirty.
Keep writing Mayo. Please.

Mayo- Your not "afraid" of Black people.

You have a curious heart and an open mind.
Keep riding in the other guys shoes.
Don't forget people are people.
I think you will turn out all right.

Put your ramblings in a book.. soft cover with a picture of a pile of removed parts..

Sell it to a few people who'd understand, and a few who want to be cool.. and a few who didn't know what they bought.. become and underground hero to others.. a name muttered as the cranks go round at insane speeds...

I too am white, from vermont (less than 1% black people). I tell myself that it's perfectly reasonable to watch your back when you're riding through the projects. At the same time I suspect myself of racism.

The other day I was checking out a fixie from craigslist--no, I don't need another bike, it was for a broke friend--just talking on the curb. Big black SUV pulls up; big black man jumps out. I started to pull my bike out of the way, but right away, he's like "is that a fix?" "yeah." "Hey, I used to ride a fix when I was a kid!" He pulls the family out of the car to take a look... Turned into a fixie love-fest. I told him it's never too late to get back on a bike.

Mayo
keep writing, please.
You have a nice beat Ferlinghetti, Brautigan, Kerouac words just roll off your pen kind of feel. Your words ooze
feelings from "I am your meat" to "like his laughter just cured cancer". You my friend are the real deal.
Too many memories of being a scared white kid going to
school in Bed-Stuy every morning, or biking through
liberty city out to matheson hammock.
yeah, I like it.

Marty

hey mayo I've got the same problem with southwest side cops! About once a month I ride from my parent's house in the suburbs into naperville and pretty often (esp at night) I get asked the "what're you doing in our neighborhood?" question.

Once in the winter I had a black guy ask me "what the f**k is your white ass doing in the southside?" I took my hat off and said my ass is Chinese and we go where ever the f**k we want. We had both good laugh over that one.
I love chicago.

Well...

I ride all the time in white neighborhoods in Chicago and I'm not afraid... so I guess there must be something about the stereotypes that are typically assigned to the different neighborhoods. Do I get a gold star for that?

There are plenty of times when someone may say that a black female on a bike wearing lycra riding through the neighborhoods of the north side and the north suburbs is a rare occurrance. I don't find myself particulary heralding the fact that I'm being ever so brave as to go to a neighborhood where "black people don't belong". Does that make me brave?

Afraid of black people? I'm black, so that means you have to be afraid of me?

Very ignorant thinking. I'm personally insulted.

Koffee

Well...

I ride all the time in white neighborhoods in Chicago and I'm not afraid... so I guess there must be something about the stereotypes that are typically assigned to the different neighborhoods. Do I get a gold star for that?

There are plenty of times when someone may say that a black female on a bike wearing lycra riding through the neighborhoods of the north side and the north suburbs is a rare occurrance. I don't find myself particulary heralding the fact that I'm being ever so brave as to go to a neighborhood where "black people don't belong". Does that make me brave?

Afraid of black people? I'm black, so that means you have to be afraid of me?

Very ignorant thinking. I'm personally insulted.

Koffee

Koffe.. wake up. Read your statement, and you could draw the converse about your opinions of white people.

I could say you're ignorant for thinking that there are neighbors that black people don't belong.

I AM reading the statement- and I make no assumptions about white people, nor do I think my jaunts into a white neighborhood creates a problem, regardless of whether I stick out or not. You totally miss the point, so I point the finger of ignorance right back at you.

I personally have no opinion about white people- blacks, latinos, or any other race of people either, either per se or as a group. I just like to ride the bike and I don't seem to have anything stick out at me when I venture into neighborhoods heavily populated by one particular racial group.

Koffee

I think with a couple more posts we might be able to solve this race problem once and for all guys. Keep at it. :D

-Jason

koffee, are you denying that racial tensions exist?

i'd like to believe that they don't, but they do, and it's sad.

personally, when i lived in boston, i rode through pretty much every neighborhood and i felt totally at ease all the time (except when a car would whiz by a little too close).

there's this stupid fear that i had about primarily black neighborhoods that i overcame. maybe it's from growing up in a small town in the middle of nowhere and being bullied by just about everyone for being small, and different from everyone else. now though, i realise that my fear was misplaced. i'm much more afraid of big white guys in pickup trucks and the dance-club crowd than i am of anyone else.

i guess that just comes from being ****ed with too many times on late night rides by drunken college boys on their way back to the frat house...90% of the time, those are the people who give me **** on the street. the other 10% are just drunks or soccer moms.

I don't deny racial tensions exist- that would be ridiculous. But to venture into a neighborhood of ethnic origin, full of "fear of the X man" (insert race for the X) just plays right into the stereotypes typically displayed by people of a common race who are scared (usually in their heads) by other races. I don't play into those stereotypes- I am in a free country, I can move about as I please, and I don't make the mistake of falling for the racial stereotypes and ethnic preconceived notions that others have labelled the different races/neighborhoods/religious groups. It actually makes the world a much easier place to deal with when you go into it this way.

Koffee

I don't deny racial tensions exist- that would be ridiculous. But to venture into a neighborhood of ethnic origin, full of "fear of the X man" (insert race for the X) just plays right into the stereotypes typically displayed by people of a common race who are scared (usually in their heads) by other races. I don't play into those stereotypes- I am in a free country, I can move about as I please, and I don't make the mistake of falling for the racial stereotypes and ethnic preconceived notions that others have labelled the different races/neighborhoods/religious groups. It actually makes the world a much easier place to deal with when you go into it this way.

Koffee


true enough...i try to live that way too....and i think what mayo's post was about is overcoming those preconceptions.

mayo, that was a great read. Dirt Rag has literature contests pretty often. you should give it a shot.
www.dirtragmag.com but for now keep riding and writing.

thanks,
creep dog
(yes i am a white man, but i got soul brother!)

I AM reading the statement- and I make no assumptions about white people, nor do I think my jaunts into a white neighborhood creates a problem, regardless of whether I stick out or not. You totally miss the point, so I point the finger of ignorance right back at you.


My highschool was 85% non white. The 15% were broken into 3 groups. Stoners, locals whose parents were to poor to send to private, and the "others". I've been labeled for crimes that any white person did through history, though I wasn't there, don't actually have any family history with it.. I had to be escorted home by the police because I dated someone who wasn't white. To top it off, my parents were.... phobic of race. I've been called whitey, white boy, blanco, gringo.. du mai mai, a list.. Been chased, been beaten, been in fights.. for what? For being white. And no other reason.

Tell me I don't understand? Tell me I didn't have a reason at the time to fear mexicans, fear blacks, or fear veitnamese? Bull ****. I had reason. But I also knew that I belonged there, and that there was a minority of people doing something that was wrong, and that the majority of the people didn't care. And that many times, people had my back. And that it was something that taught me much. I also knew the history and reason why the few people who acted this way did... I almost understood, and almost forgave them for it. I remeber walking home and never getting stopped by a cop... unless I was with friends.. Explain that, I know all to well.

You should be insulted that you lack the understanding of what it's like to be the minority in a situation. to be labeled for a crime you did not complete. Mayo clearly states he knows why people are angry.. and why they see him as a symbol of what's wrong.

Perhaps, you don't.

I think with a couple more posts we might be able to solve this race problem once and for all guys. Keep at it. :D

-Jason

I'm trying! :D

Seriously, all this backward thinking, racially negative thinking really doesn't help. I don't think anything we say will dispel this guy's notion that he's not going to get raped, beaten, robbed or whatever on the south side of Chicago, nor do I think his chances of getting raped, beaten, robbed or whatever on the south side of Chicago are any more of a problem than if I were on the same bike doing the same activity. What needs to be recognized is that there are sociological and economical problems in these neighborhoods, and it's these factors that will play into whether one can ride through a neighborhood or not without problems- it's NOT about the race of an individual. How can this guy ride through the neighborhood, look at all those people and know EXACTLY what he thinks they're thinking in their heads? They really are reflecting on the oppression of the white man? They really are thinking about Jim Crow? What's that about? Are black people really so readable that by one glance, a white person can read all this just in the few seconds they speed by on their bike? This makes no sense. This kind of thinking that people call "refreshing" and "enlightening" is for the most part, imaginative, stereotypical thinking of some scared kid on a bike who plays right into the stereotypes. And rather than take the time to learn about people he obviously spends little time around, he makes the assumptions about what they're thinking and what actions they would perform upon him and speeds along like a scared silly kid so he can get back to his safe environment where he sees people that look more like him, and back to the place where because it's familiar, he feels like nothing will happen to him. Well, maybe he'll get home and he'll be ok, and maybe he'll get home and that night, some fool playing with matches will burn the place down. Who knows?

What gets me is that if I took out every reference for "black" and all the descriptions of the black people and replaced them with "white" and stereotypical descriptions of white people, I KNOW people would be up at arms-but if this guy says something, it's "poetic", "gifted" prose. Huh? I bet if I took that first post and sent it to the Sun-Times and asked them to publish it, there would be a lot of people agreeing with me, simply because there is a greater variety of people from all ethnic backgrounds that read this, while on this forum, there is a great majority of one type of people on this forum, while the minorities make up a smaller segment of the members. So of course, if like-minded people think in a similar manner, they wouldn't be surprised to see my response, and they wouldn't react in a manner as to call me ignorant by my subsequent posts. :(

I expect very little from people who see this post and look at my reaction, then get angry with MY response to the post. I object to the original post- heck, I even object to the TITLE of this post... it is one of the most racially stereotypical descriptions of black people I've come across- the whole "jungle" stereotype is just SPLAYED across the title, and as a black person, I am just HURT when I see it, and it HURTS even more that I'M being attacked for something that some kid with racial stereotypes wrote about my race of people.

So no, Jason. I don't expect that the racial tensions will be solved with a few simple posts- in order to solve it, the subject needs discussion and understanding from both sides, and as there is no understanding coming from what my point is, then racial tensions will continue. I no longer expect much from here- I have really been disappointed today. :(

Koffee

My highschool was 85% non white. The 15% were broken into 3 groups. Stoners, locals whose parents were to poor to send to private, and the "others". I've been labeled for crimes that any white person did through history, though I wasn't there, don't actually have any family history with it.. I had to be escorted home by the police because I dated someone who wasn't white. To top it off, my parents were.... phobic of race. I've been called whitey, white boy, blanco, gringo.. du mai mai, a list.. Been chased, been beaten, been in fights.. for what? For being white. And no other reason.

Tell me I don't understand? Tell me I didn't have a reason at the time to fear mexicans, fear blacks, or fear veitnamese? Bull ****. I had reason. But I also knew that I belonged there, and that there was a minority of people doing something that was wrong, and that the majority of the people didn't care. And that many times, people had my back. And that it was something that taught me much. I also knew the history and reason why the few people who acted this way did... I almost understood, and almost forgave them for it. I remeber walking home and never getting stopped by a cop... unless I was with friends.. Explain that, I know all to well.


You should be insulted that you lack the understanding of what it's like to be the minority in a situation. to be labeled for a crime you did not complete. Mayo clearly states he knows why people are angry.. and why they see him as a symbol of what's wrong.

Perhaps, you don't.



Oh, I get tired of the "I have a black friend" speech- it's really no arguement at all. Boo hoo.. you went to a neighborhood school where you were the minority, and you were scared. Exactly what I was talking about before.

As I said before, you don't understand. You simply aren't getting my point at all... WHOOSH, over your head. And for the record, as a MINORITY, I know what it's like to be a MINORITY. What you just said escapes the realm of comprehension. It's almost funny if it weren't so silly a statement to begin with.

For the record, how did he know all those people he rode past were ANGRY? It makes no sense to me. He rode through an entire neighborhood of angry black people?

Gosh, I wonder how he escaped alive! :rolleyes:

Koffee

The title has multiple meanings. It's also from a line in a very funky song.

Mayonnaise is excellent at revealing truths without candy coating them. Telling the tale of life in Chicago through the vantage point of his bicycle. Racial tensions are obviously part of daily life and his experience on his bike in Chicago.

Art imitates life, and Mayo's contributions to this forum have done just that.

koffee, i don't want to start any ****, okay?

i believe he was quoting a grand master flash and the furious 5 song in the title.

"it's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how i keep from going under."

referring to the city in general, and not specific neighborhoods, as an urban jungle.

also, notice that he started the post talking about how a cop told him to stay out of the neighborhood because he "didn't belong." when someone with that kind of power says something that ignorant, it makes me sick. i thought cops were out there to keep the peace...it's that kind of ignorance that spreads the fear of the other that is so prevalent in our society.

i'm not surprised at your responses and i'm actually gald to see different perspectives, and i appreciate your being here.

i think the sooner people realise that it's not so much about race anymore as it is about class, the sooner we'll all realise that all people are indeed equal, and that capitalism creates percieved inequalities which perpetuate the feelings of fear that white people have regarding people of different ethnic backgrounds.

Regardless of whether he took that from the song or not, I'll tell you right now- in the context of how it's being used, I find it rather demoralizing and degrading. I can take a bunch of song titles and put together a pretty racist thread and hide behind some band and say "well, I took it from some band".

I am the first to say that if that cop did say that, it is terrible. However, the liberties he takes at knowing what people are thinking makes me think that what he stated is suspect. Give me the name or badge number of the cop who said it, I'll give a call over to my friend who also is a cop and see that this guy be reprimanded. Everyone that lives in the city of Chicago pays taxes- we pay the third highest taxes in the nation. As such, if anyone's earned the right to travel through any part of Chicago, it's all of us tax-paying Chicagoeans. No one has the right to tell us we don't belong in any particular neighborhood.

OneTin, I appreciate your comments. I also appreciate that you do realize that there's more to the problem by acknowledging that there are socioeconomic and class differences at work here. Unfortunately, most people make the more simplistic, sophomoric assumption that race alone is the bane of our society problems, and until we realize that there's much more to it, and we can talk amongst ourselves in an effort to understand each other and where we're coming from, we're going to have racial strife in this country for a long, long time.

Koffee

The title has multiple meanings. It's also the name of a very funky song.

Mayonnaise is excellent at revealing truths without candy coating them. Telling the tale of life in Chicago through the vantage point of his bicycle. Racial tensions are obviously part of daily life and his experience on his bike in Chicago.

Art imitates life, and Mayo's contributions to this forum have done just that.

Ummmm... the truth through his eyes is not necessarily the truths more than it is the misguided assumptions from some kid on a bike riding through unfamiliar neighborhoods- they are assumptions he makes about other races of people from his limited interactions with other races. He doesn't candy coat THOSE thoughts at all, no he doesn't.

Amuse yourself with his ramblings, but please do not assert to me that he's telling it straight about life in Chicago. Anyone that can look at someone for two seconds or less and make an assumption about them is not telling something they know to be "truth". This is what I find extremely alarming about this post and the posts that seem to validate the assumptions he makes from other forum members.

Koffee

I have a racial observation, when I lived in Chicago black cyclists (there are many more than people seem to think) returned my waves (the two finger style) or nods more often than white cyclists. Any conclusions??

Boo hoo.. you went to a neighborhood school where you were the minority, and you were scared. Exactly what I was talking about before. As I said before, you don't understand. You simply aren't getting my point at all... WHOOSH, over your head. And for the record, as a MINORITY, I know what it's like to be a MINORITY. What you just said escapes the realm of comprehension. It's almost funny if it weren't so silly a statement to begin with.

I can't relegate this to a simple debate, nor can I (as I did before I edited it) call you ignorant Koffee. I've followed your post to often and know better.

I can't believe that you have this misguided opinion that only a person of color can be discriminated against. I'm saying that I've dealt with being a minority on a daily basis in high school, in the nieghborhood where I lived. And I lived through being singled out for things that white people did, though I had no part. I'm not crying, it was life, you either suck it up or become a victim. I guess you believe that somehow, I'm looking for acceptance or coolness. I could give a rats ass about either. I'm saying I have the perspective. And if you fail to accept that, then I guess you're just as ignorant as you would like to believe I am.

Are you to high up on the fact that you, as a minority, have recieved the blunt end of the stick so often that it seems impossible to you to that others can be discriminated against? Are you too involved within your self to realize that even minorities have preconcieved notions of what white people are?

If you'd like to take this on a PM, I'd love to.. if not. Well, let it be as is.

Regardless of whether he took that from the song or not, I'll tell you right now- in the context of how it's being used, I find it rather demoralizing and degrading. I can take a bunch of song titles and put together a pretty racist thread and hide behind some band and say "well, I took it from some band".


the title of the piece was most definitely a reference to the song. listen to (or read) the song lyrics and you'll see some of the similarities in theme. in this case the theme was tackled from a different angle though.

http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/rap_comp/sugrhill/message.sug.txt

oh, and this isn't "some band"... this is Grandmaster Melle Mel, and the song is The Message. it is one of the seminal pieces of rap history and was one of the first artistic expressions of life in the ghetto.

koffee, just as an example, you've never made the assumption that a man leering at you in public was thinking about getting in your pants? and you've never felt threatened by a member of the opposite sex? you never thought some crazy guy on the street was thinking he was going to mug you and god knows what else?

i understand that it's not right to assume that an ENTIRE GROUP of people are thinking and feeling the same things...maybe mayo, and a lot of other white people are feeling retroactive guilt for ancestral sins, and that's why he wrote the things he wrote....he's taking an internal conflict and externalizing it to either make himself feel better about it, or to justify the guilt that he maybe feels....again, like the last post, revisiting the racism of the past...to give voice to these feelings that he's feeling, but in a condescending "i understand" way...which kinda sucks.

re: the message:
i don't really see the similarities in structure or content.

point them out please.

i like these lines of that song:
"Wear a shirt and tie and run with the creeps
'cuz it's all about money, ain't a damn thing funny
You got to have a con in this land of milk and honey."

every kid i've ever talked to or heard in the media talking about turning to a life of crime, has always said that it's about money; getting it and showing it off to get respect from society. how come those kids understand economic oppression so well, and so many others don't?

I can't relegate this to a simple debate, nor can I (as I did before I edited it) call you ignorant Koffee. I've followed your post to often and know better.

I can't believe that you have this misguided opinion that only a person of color can be discriminated against. I'm saying that I've dealt with being a minority on a daily basis in high school, in the nieghborhood where I lived. And I lived through being singled out for things that white people did, though I had no part. I'm not crying, it was life, you either suck it up or become a victim. I guess you believe that somehow, I'm looking for acceptance or coolness. I could give a rats ass about either. I'm saying I have the perspective. And if you fail to accept that, then I guess you're just as ignorant as you would like to believe I am.

Are you to high up on the fact that you, as a minority, have recieved the blunt end of the stick so often that it seems impossible to you to that others can be discriminated against? Are you too involved within your self to realize that even minorities have preconcieved notions of what white people are?

If you'd like to take this on a PM, I'd love to.. if not. Well, let it be as is.

Two points-

One, I never want anyone to think I am ignorant. This is something you called me, so whatever....

Two- dear, I don't think that it's only minorities that have been discriminated against. Again, this is a WHOOSH, over your head thing- you again take my comments and turn them into something it is not because you simply cannot or will not understand the point of what I'm saying.

So, any other comments, I'll be directing them into a PM. I think we know each other pretty well from here enough to respect each other, so let's just continue this on the side.

Koffee

the title of the piece was most definitely a reference to the song. listen to (or read) the song lyrics and you'll see some of the similarities in theme. in this case the theme was tackled from a different angle though.

http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/rap_comp/sugrhill/message.sug.txt

oh, and this isn't "some band"... this is Grandmaster Melle Mel, and the song is The Message. it is one of the seminal pieces of rap history and was one of the first artistic expressions of life in the ghetto.

What you take as musical art, I see as "some band". I am familiar with the song- I have that song on CD and on my computer. So what? I will add you to my list of the "WHOOSH, over your head" category, as you fail to understand the point I made.

There are plenty of great songs about life in the ghetto- check out Stevie Wonder's "Living in the City", or better yet, just get his "Innervisions" album, his "Talking Book" album, or his "Superstition" album. All three are much more poignent and reavealing looks at life in the inner city, and they came out MUCH EARLIER than Grandmaster Melle Mel and his sidekick (Doug). I would certainly put my money down for Stevie Wonder over Grandmaster Melle Mel anyday, although I respect the contributions of both artists. Still, it was one of many songs done in the early 80s/late 70s dealing with the same subject. Remember when Good Times came out? About the same time as this song, whereas Stevie sang about socioeconomic and racial subject matter long before it was the thing to do.

Koffee

koffee, just as an example, you've never made the assumption that a man leering at you in public was thinking about getting in your pants? and you've never felt threatened by a member of the opposite sex? you never thought some crazy guy on the street was thinking he was going to mug you and god knows what else?

i understand that it's not right to assume that an ENTIRE GROUP of people are thinking and feeling the same things...maybe mayo, and a lot of other white people are feeling retroactive guilt for ancestral sins, and that's why he wrote the things he wrote....he's taking an internal conflict and externalizing it to either make himself feel better about it, or to justify the guilt that he maybe feels....again, like the last post, revisiting the racism of the past...to give voice to these feelings that he's feeling, but in a condescending "i understand" way...which kinda sucks.

re: the message:
i don't really see the similarities in structure or content.

point them out please.



i like these lines of that song:
"Wear a shirt and tie and run with the creeps
'cuz it's all about money, ain't a damn thing funny
You got to have a con in this land of milk and honey."

every kid i've ever talked to or heard in the media talking about turning to a life of crime, has always said that it's about money; getting it and showing it off to get respect from society. how come those kids understand economic oppression so well, and so many others don't?


OneTin-

when a guy is making kissy faces at you, when he is whistling at you, when he's sticking his tongue out at you, when he's saying lewd things at you as you pass, when he's honking and yelling at you, when he's chasing you down on the street and yelling stuff at you (comments about your figure or your butt or whatever), I think I have a pretty good idea of these guys and I think I've earned the right to say these guys are leering at me in public. All these things have happened to me, especially over the summer when they can see me wearing less (not covered by a coat, or wearing form fitting clothing). If you're just riding past people, and you're making an assumption of what they're thinking without them saying a word, without them indicating what they're thinking about you with facial expressions, is it real when he says he rode through a neighborhood of angry blacks? I mean, it makes no sense to me. Did they all scowl at him as he passed? Give the finger? Snarl something at him? Perhaps you are right- he is externalizing whatever guilt he may have from his ancestors (or not, because I know nothing about this guy and his ancestry). I don't pretend to understand this guilt thing- and there are certainly better ways of resolving whatever guilt you may be feeling over that slavery thing. Heck, I don't hold anyone responsible for the things that happen in my life but me, and I know there are a lot of other black people that feel the same way, so don't worry about it at all. Feel guilty if you contribute to the surroundings you ride past in the inner city, but if you're an upright, tax paying citizen, it's all good to me.


I don't know the kids you talk about, so I can't comment on how the kids you know understand economic oppression. The people I know understand economic oppression, and they are all ages. Heck, I'M economically oppressed! I understand it perfectly. I'm poor. Hey, I'm the statistic! :D

Ok, I think I've spent enough time on this. Peace.

Koffee

I will add you to my list of the "WHOOSH, over your head" category, as you fail to understand the point I made.


alright, i guess i'm done with this thread as well. :rolleyes:

I don't deny racial tensions exist- that would be ridiculous. But to venture into a neighborhood of ethnic origin, full of "fear of the X man" (insert race for the X) just plays right into the stereotypes typically displayed by people of a common race who are scared (usually in their heads) by other races.

to stay safe riding thru the neighborhoods of 'ethnic origin' you must consider the stereotypes. if you dont you may wind up dead. i dont know if anyone is familiar with philadelphia, and temple university's location, but temple is right smack in the middle of the ghetto of north philadelphia. north philly is notorious for being the worst section of the city. one evening after classes i took an alternate route home. there was a group of young black men standing near the road. i was apprehensive approaching. why was i apprehensive? stereoypes. guess what happened? well one of them FLASHED A PIECE, and yelled "stay outta my hood, whitey" or something along those lines. where do stereotypes come from? THE TRUTH. not everyone lives up to the stereotypes, but enough do to keep me from riding through that 'hood again.

I remember walking one night through the "wrong neighborhood" I was minding my own business and then I was spit on and threatened. I will not go to that neighborhood any more.

Wow...I missed it.
I see a lot of self investigation in this piece, it goes straight to the origins of ignorance and fear for this "Mayo" and unravels the heart of one individual struggling with stereotypes from start to beginning. Maybe a bit too much, but if it is honest then so be it.
It's a Holiday in Cambodia...that came to mind with Mayo's last piece. If you know the lyrics, you'll understand the irony of the last piece; it applied back it 85 when I first heard it and it applies now. With this piece, all I see is an observer testing boundries; boundries of writing, of this forum, and of human understanding. You gotta dig deep to find the good and the bad. You gotta dig. Touch bottom. Scare the **** outta yourself, to truly know what you are. For some, this is leaning into a curve covered with wet leaves; for others it is pushing through racism, classism and all the other 'isms' out there. And it sucks when others feel it is at their expense.
Mayo-sounds like you have a few things to work out, and writing is your shovel. I enjoy reading your thoughts (I was charged when I saw a new thread with 13 posts already!) and know that any good writer would stand behind his/her work when it is questioned. As eager as we are to read your work, we would also like to hear back on what controversy/conversation it begins.
Otherwise, I will dismiss it as poking at the underbelly of racial tensions with clever tactics. Which would be a g**d****d shame...
(edited for language)

Ok, I think I've spent enough time on this. Peace.

Koffee

AND


alright, i guess i'm done with this thread as well. :rolleyes:

Wait! Wait! You can't go! No one has mentioned Nazis yet. :rolleyes:

I do think that we should take all of Mayo's writings, print them in a book...

and then burn the books in a bonfire in the public square as we goose step around in brown shirts, knee high boots and jodphurs.

OK. You can go now.

Class dismissed. :D

Without getting all wrapped around the axle about
the race thing, for me (and I can only speak about me)
it boils down to this:
1) mayo started riding through neighborhood wary, scared and with lots of preconceived ideas.
2) somewhere a shift occured, mayo rides thru same
neighborhood, talking to people, giving bus schedule updates.

My take on this is it's his own personal journey through his
own sterotypes and preconceived notions, nothing more.

Marty

So Koffee, Mayo is doing black people a disservice by talking about prejudices about black neighborhoods? Of course we'd all like for this to be irrelevant ancient history. But it's not. As you yourself acknowledge, it's the Standard Fear Story. In order for something Standard to become something Obsolete, there has to be a middle phase where its use is questioned.

Of course Mayo can't tell what every black person is thinking by glancing at them as he rides by. But the idea that he can occurs to him. He thinks he's an outsider in the neighborhood because of the history of race in america. This abstract concept is suddenly weighing on him in an emotional way.

In general, Mayo's post is about thoughts that occurred to him, not The Truth as Mayo sees it.

You can still say that this is a bad thing. Not to single Koffee out--there were many knee-jerk reactions to Mayo's threads--but if you want to say something critical of Mayo's piece, you need to at least be on the level of complexity of the piece itself. You need to understand what he's referencing and have a plausible interpretation of what he's saying. Interpreting the whole thing as "Mayo's being racist" is like interpreting Stevie Wonder as "mellow and sappy". Even if there were a case for that (I don't think there is), you'd really have some work to do in order to prove it.

I met a large scary black man and made him smile! I now know the small-minded error of my ways...we can all get along!

Dude, can I have the movie rights to this story? I believe Morgan Freeman or Will Smith would be chomping at the bit.

schiek, you're a dick.

that was not "the defining moment of my view of black people"... that was "something that happened the other day".

Orange-

I was referring to the original Mayo post.

-The Dick.

Maybe Orange and Schiek could meet in Philly and throw batteries at each other?

Nothing like a little orange on white violence. Maybe Mayo could write about it. That I would read.

Maybe Orange and Schiek could meet in Philly and throw batteries at each other?

Nothing like a little orange on white violence. Maybe Mayo could write about it. That I would read.


since the meeting would be in my town, id be happy to document and post pictures of the battery throwing

Good writing stimulates debate and I think this is another excellent piece by mayo.

However, I'm a bit uncomfortable about the subtext and can see how his writings can be interpreted as having racist undertones(even if just by subscribing to stereotype).

The repeating of stereotypes that all black people in that neighbourhood are angry is offensive (even if they have cause - through your country's history- to be).

To complicate matters the stereotype is struck at by his own words. His only connection with people in that neighbourhood seems to have been friendly.

I can't make up my mind whether Mayo is a superb writer with a wonderful stream of consciousness narrative, or a writer who lets slip suppressed racism.

the whole problem is that one little experience is getting stretched out into a supposedly representative view of the issue.

in this spirit, I will retract calling Schiek a dick. But, Schiek's comment was still dicky. Therefore I will ride to philly tomorrow. Nothing bigger than "C" cells though.

Two points-

One, I never want anyone to think I am ignorant. This is something you called me, so whatever....

Two- dear, I don't think that it's only minorities that have been discriminated against. Again, this is a WHOOSH, over your head thing- you again take my comments and turn them into something it is not because you simply cannot or will not understand the point of what I'm saying.

So, any other comments, I'll be directing them into a PM. I think we know each other pretty well from here enough to respect each other, so let's just continue this on the side.

Koffee

No PM yet, or rather, you had time to PM me that you deleted a thread of mine, but not to PM me on this issue. Kind of funny that once things get sideways, you begin to moderate things to the letter of the law.... I'm wondering if this is just talk talk.. which aside from being an 80's band that was just covered by No doubt, is cheap.

I believe you're to interested in saying you're the only one who can be a victim or have perspective. And with that, you invalidate other's views about Mayo's post.. And hold your view as singular correct. Which is extremely narrow minded.

Still waiting on the PM.

Orange-

My post was not to be 'dicky.' It was merely an exegesis of the prose found in Mayo's last graf. Stylistically, the quote, "when this big black guy, with deep dark eyes and more than his share of menace, comes up to me..." reminded me of a theme that has run through a whole lot of movies, books and after-school specials. That is to say, 'don't judge a book by its cover' or 'despite the color of your skin you are okay.' My point, which may still be 'dicky,' is that I see Mayo portraying his foil as a caricature. Everyone else has given Mayo his props for literary greatness. My take on the piece, as literature, is that it is a tad formulaic. Been there, done that. I am not making any judgment on the substantive arguments set forth in the piece.

Are 9-volts okay?

-Schiek

Mayo, you've got a good style. I have recently been reading FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE by Jonathan Lethem. The book is largely told from the point of view of a white kid growing up in a mostly black and Puerto Rican neighborhood. For moments as a read your post, I thought I was reading the book or atleast many of the impressions were of a similar nature. I can't say I would have the balls to ride that route, but would love to, someday. I guess that makes you the urban trailblazer.

Rock on!

Schiek-

I think it's a really interesting question, to what extent Mayo is/was aware of the way the style & form of his writing mirrored the stereotypes he was talking about. It seems clear that he perceived the "big black guy" in just such a "canned" way... at first. So the style of the writing puts you in Mayo's place.

Maybe that's a big part of what makes us uncomfortable reading it. I'll be the first to deny that shock value equals good art. But isn't there something you can relate to in the unsettling feeling of trying to relate to people through, despite, your own prejudice and fear?

If it's an old story, the lesson certainly hasn't been universally learned.

Orange-

I guess my problem is that I was NOT uncomfortable reading the post. I found the descriptions to be comical, not threatening, and, therefore, they did not elicit feelings of prejudice or fear. They elicited eye- rolling, instead. I realize that others were affected differently, and that is great. You can't fool all the people all the time, right?

Maybe my reaction comes from living in a mixed neighborhood where encountering somebody of a different race, is not an exotic journey into the unknown. I dunno.

Peace, bro....now about that name calling...

-Schiek

schiek-

I felt uncomfortable being put in a stereotypical situation. Mayo's POV was clouded by prejudice. Not that necessarily the reader would have the same reaction--but that there's no way to know, because the situation was described through that reaction.

There's "mixed neighborhoods" and then there's places where the gunshots wake you up at night. I don't know the neighborhood Mayo cycled through, maybe it's totally harmless. But I've lived places where I wondered whether my fear was racist. If that's naive and silly, it is still a live issue for me, and I guess for others.

peace. I respond in kind. Your brief post seemed glib and superior. My brief post was an attempt to express that.

throw batteries already...