Knock on wood!!! I am !! All these capricious accidents really have no common denominator except fuc*ked up drivers of cars or target type bike riders. I live in DC which has the second worst traffic congestion compared to LA, except for time at lights and accidents*. (* = what's that? Well. some BS statistic meant to mitigate that number... Sounds like we're No. 1 to me).
I am very aggressive, I try to radiate it; For years I'd get up thinking today 'let's be mellow and just enjoy the ride'. Within two intersections some self centered SUV parasite is cutting me off, whatever...
After about 1/2 mile I'm back in defense mode, gotta be. Then Offense Mode, cut me off, squeeze me out; then off with your right mirror. You're commercial; taxi, truck, bus (for hire) reaping profit from my over-taxed infrastructure, off with the left mirror ( hard to drive auto without a left mirror!) Open your door without looking over shoulder? Wanna give me the Door Prize? Next time you'll think about it after I spring your door AND it slams right back on you.
I'm 53 been riding for 45 yrs. most always on busy roads, seldom wear helmet, never spandex and knocking on wood.
I think if we acted like the selfish a*sholes most these drivers are we'd command a lot more respect.
maddyfish
04-14-08, 06:46 PM
Sometumes I think that, if we were well known as mean, nasty, car damaging animals maybe they'd leave us alone.
But then I think they'd just pass a law getting rid of us.
Thirstyman
04-14-08, 06:50 PM
You couldn't be any further from being right.
you, Sir, sound like an individual frustrated with his life situation. If you weren't riding a bike you would be searching out opportunities to vandalize and deface property just for kicks. Stop being a tool. Lighten up and stop giving us all a bad name.
daibutsu
04-14-08, 07:30 PM
Thirstyman,
I begrudgingly admit that you are basically correct in your psychological assessment, capability wise. However, this analysis of yours, falls short; Re: giving us a bad name. The milquetoast passivisity hasn't at all reduced car/bike accidents. Let's try something new.
I'm involved in a few riding clubs; it's amazing the ratio of bike accidents to passive bike riders.
photoassign
04-14-08, 07:38 PM
Stop being a tool. Lighten up and stop giving us all a bad name.
right as you may be, i'd like to meet this guy. and shake his hand. *hides in shame*
RobertHurst
04-14-08, 07:48 PM
Thirstyman,
I begrudgingly admit that you are basically correct in your psychological assessment, capability wise. However, this analysis of yours, falls short; Re: giving us a bad name. The milquetoast passivisity hasn't at all reduced car/bike accidents. Let's try something new.
I'm involved in a few riding clubs; it's amazing the ratio of bike accidents to passive bike riders.
I wouldn't recommend passivity in the face of deliberately aggressive driving. I would say however that much of what appears as deliberately aggressive is actually just clueless, distracted driving. Cyclists historically have a difficult time discerning the difference. Someone who rode around assuming that all the bad, dangerous driving they see is deliberate would certainly end up with some kind of epic persecution complex.
I recommend riding in a way that is assertively considerate. There is no compelling safety reason to ride like a $!@#.
Robert
John E
04-14-08, 07:49 PM
I think being politely and defensively assertive is the safest way to ride in traffic. If you act indecisive and/or cower against the curb, motorists will tend to cut you off. If you fail to claim a narrow lane, some bozo will try to squeeze past you.
Allister
04-14-08, 08:24 PM
I don't take sh!t from drivers, but I don't dish it out either.
Bekologist
04-15-08, 05:18 AM
somedays, it's running a gauntlet and only the tough survive. And sometimes it's fun to count coup.
Urban Traffic Jamming - riding congested urban traffic - has a distinct aggressive aspect if it's flowing well. Jackrabbit off the lights, jump in and claim that gap, dice that line, pass that bus, BUNNY HOP, cut the corner, HAMMER DOWN and make the yellow going stale 50 feet ahead....
John E
04-15-08, 07:42 AM
I don't take sh!t from drivers, but I don't dish it out either.
Spot-on advice for all dealings with others, not just motorists.
zeytoun
04-15-08, 11:04 AM
False dichotomy, OP.
There is passive, and there is aggressive, and there is assertive.
Passive is not how you want to be on the road, you'll get yourself killed by someone not following the rules. So you are correct there.
However, Aggressive is just the path to road rage. It won't improve your safety, and it will impair your judgment, potentially escalating a situation or making safety sacrifices for the sake of ego wounds.
Assertive is best. It is a rational mindset, wherein you make calculated decisions to advance your own well-being. You do not let yourself get right-hooked, or cut off because you watch for dangers, and take the most direct route to your own safety.
noisebeam
04-15-08, 11:10 AM
I recommend riding in a way that is assertively considerate. There is no compelling safety reason to ride like a $!@#.
Robert
Excellent advice!
Al
littlewaywelt
04-15-08, 12:12 PM
I think if we acted like the selfish a*sholes most these drivers are we'd command a lot more respect.
Well, you're acting like one all right...I'm sure you're commanding respect :rolleyes: You're no better than the worst drivers. You certainly sound as angry and frustrated as many of them.
Ride with confidence, own your space and leave it at that. Lashing out is immature and as you're describing it, illegal. Grow up. Oh wait, you're 53. You should be by now.
Agent Cooper
04-15-08, 12:12 PM
"I'm so tough, I knock mirrors off taxis every day, blah blah blah!!"
Shhhaaa!
I have to respectfully question the veracity of this post. :p
First of all, I'd like to see anybody knock a mirror off a car with their bare hand from a bike.
Second of all, I'd like to really see you do it on a regular basis in downtown DC (or LA, or NYC etc) during rush hour. Or any hour. I'd settle for seeing you put a tiny scratch on somebody's car to see what happens when you REALLY do this. (Answer: You would have been run off the road, run over, pushed off, doored, beaten up or worse long ago. )
We're all frustrated by traffic sometimes, but c'mon man! Bravado much? :rolleyes:
daibutsu
04-15-08, 03:26 PM
You sponges somehow equate the weight, momentum, and simple presence of a bicycle equal to a car. No, no, no: This has been the lamentation of motorcyclists for practically ever. They can't readily respond. We can!! I do!!!
The a*sholes that run us off the road are the same a*sholes that love their cars. New mirrors do seem to give when pushed forward; my brother also doubts the efficacy of smashing then off without hurting my hands. It works on many cars, I need to find some new way of sending out my message. Which is, you sponges: Contact with cars, being run off the road, people simply honking to warn me ( then they're too close by definition) is detrimental to my riding, commute, and/or enjoyment. If the auto drivers wish me to compete with their bulk and mass, I will share with them the negatives.
alpinist
04-15-08, 03:42 PM
I ride to have fun. Not to be a p!ssed-off cyclist.
SpaceNerd
04-15-08, 05:07 PM
Do you carry this much anger in your everyday life? Unless it was some hugely bad situation I try to forget about whatever the last stupid driver did by the next block otherwise I'm just riding angry and thats not fun. Not only are you making the rest of us look bad but you're shaving years off your life carrying that attitude. Lighten up and enjoy the ride, minor traffic annoyances may seem less worse with a less "I'm gonna get ya back" attitude.
tinydr
04-15-08, 05:12 PM
you seem to love to use the word sponge as an epithet, blockhead.
ferd_miller
04-15-08, 05:42 PM
"Assertively aggressive" sounds like "alarmingly terrifying".
fordfasterr
04-15-08, 06:56 PM
......
First of all, I'd like to see anybody knock a mirror off a car with their bare hand from a bike.
........
lolz. It has been said, so let it be done.
Agent C, a typical car mirror is very easy to remove provided that you have enough momentum. Your speed should be at least 15+ mph (From what I've seen, 20 mph makes it a piece of cake!)
Simply extend your arm with your palm open, bend your elbow slightly as to absorb some of the blow.
Just as you reach your desired target, flex your arm back a bit and then jab at full speed with your fore-arm parallel to the road. Mirror is removed violently.
Using this technique bare-handed may result in some embedded glass, depending on where it touches the mirror, or if it breaks as you touch it.
From what I have (seen) the mirror will break after you hit it, when it slams forward into the fender of the car.
So bare-handed or not, you will not likely suffer any injuries.
tinydr
04-15-08, 06:59 PM
nice to know you're so familiar with the technique...?
fordfasterr
04-15-08, 07:00 PM
nice to know you're so familiar with the technique...?
I'm a keen observer.
chipcom
04-15-08, 07:08 PM
Thirstyman,
I begrudgingly admit that you are basically correct in your psychological assessment, capability wise. However, this analysis of yours, falls short; Re: giving us a bad name. The milquetoast passivisity hasn't at all reduced car/bike accidents. Let's try something new.
I'm involved in a few riding clubs; it's amazing the ratio of bike accidents to passive bike riders.
Funny thing is, I been riding as long as you in the same environments, but have found that riding in a courteous, safe, assertive manner...unless survival dictates otherwise, serves me the best. I ride like I drive...do you drive like an a-hole too...and if so, doesn't that make you part of the problem?
genec
04-16-08, 08:17 AM
The problem with assertive is not everyone can do "assertive." I watched a young co-ed riding her bike down a fairly busy road some months ago... she was doing fine until she got to a "pinch point" between traffic and a parked car. (odd place actually as only 3-4 cars could park in this one and only spot on this road).
Her best recourse would have been to take the lane on this 45MPH arterial... instead as she slinked along the cars, she was honked at by some ahole in an Escalade. (it was quite obvious where she was going, and rather then be a nice guy, this jerk chose to honk and rev rather then slow down and make room). I was well behind and watching this unfold... when I caught up to him I gave him an earful. (my commute route goes right by the local college... I see all kinds of cyclists)
She on the other hand just cowered back behind the first parked car... hoping for some miracle I suppose. (she wouldn't go when I went by and waved her on... )
Now the real issue is why should she have to muster up some "cajones" just to ride a bike to school? Do her compadres in little cars have to face the same situations when using the roads? Or is everyone going to have to drive "Compensators" now?
Certainly this situation has happened to others like her... What is the likelihood that she or others like her are going to continue cycling... Or did she just become "one more car."
While I fully agree that one cannot act like a milquetoast on the roads, where is courtesy?
zeytoun
04-16-08, 11:08 AM
If the auto drivers wish me to compete with their bulk and mass, I will share with them the negatives.
This is exactly why your approach is flawed.
You experience negatives from motorists, so you put in a lot of effort to give motorists negatives back.
You will live much longer if you focus on avoiding and/or mitigating the negatives from the motorists.
The other posters here are correct. There's got to be a more polite way to remove a side mirror...
genec
04-16-08, 11:59 AM
The other posters here are correct. There's got to be a more polite way to remove a side mirror...
:D
dynaryder
04-16-08, 01:46 PM
There is never a good reason to remove a mirror from a car.
If it breaks,you get 7 yrs bad luck. :p
This is a much better idea:
http://www.yehudamoon.com/images/strips/2008-04-16.gif
dynaryder
04-16-08, 01:57 PM
You sponges somehow equate the weight, momentum, and simple presence of a bicycle equal to a car. No, no, no: This has been the lamentation of motorcyclists for practically ever. They can't readily respond. We can!! I do!!!
+1M. I've ridden motorcycles my whole life,there's been several times I would've done something if not for the license plate on the back.
DC has gotten really bad the past few years. People not only don't care what happens outside the confines of their vehicle,but actually feel a sense of entitlement to do as they wish. I got cut off by a dude last week making a turn in front of me while on a cell phone(illegal here). I yelled,"turn signal" at him. He stopped and yelled for me to repeat what I said. I told him that he needed to use a turn signal,and that it was illegal to talk on a cell phone while driving. I was yelling,but didn't curse him out,didn't insult him,and didn't threaten him. As I was riding away,he responded by saying,"that's how people get hurt,they don't mind their own business". :eek:
This is pretty typical behavior around here. If you other folks can get along with drivers,then I'm jealous. But in DC,we're about one step away from the Road Warrior.
GreenPremier
04-16-08, 02:35 PM
Has anyone ever proven that being angry shortens your lifespan? You guys throw this around like it's gonna give you cancerous hemmorhoids and die.
I ride fairly boldly, I'd say. You have to be bold. Being passive like some of you wimps seem to be, cowering, budging, throwing any manner of justice out the window and just shrugging it off is not going to change anything. I'm making YOU look bad? I don't give a ****.
genec
04-16-08, 03:16 PM
Has anyone ever proven that being angry shortens your lifespan? You guys throw this around like it's gonna give you cancerous hemmorhoids and die.
I ride fairly boldly, I'd say. You have to be bold. Being passive like some of you wimps seem to be, cowering, budging, throwing any manner of justice out the window and just shrugging it off is not going to change anything. I'm making YOU look bad? I don't give a ****.
Forget making us look bad... try to think how you'll look on that day when you encounter your equivalent behind the wheel of a Hummer...
It's OK to go out there all bold and everything, just bear in mind that your 200lbs or so against the average American SUV doesn't give you much of the upper hand.
Good luck. :rolleyes:
chipcom
04-16-08, 05:28 PM
Has anyone ever proven that being angry shortens your lifespan? You guys throw this around like it's gonna give you cancerous hemmorhoids and die.
I ride fairly boldly, I'd say. You have to be bold. Being passive like some of you wimps seem to be, cowering, budging, throwing any manner of justice out the window and just shrugging it off is not going to change anything. I'm making YOU look bad? I don't give a ****.
Tough guy noobs, meet em everywhere. :rolleyes:
Denny Koll
04-16-08, 05:57 PM
I don't know about anyone else but I carry a set of spike strips in case some JAM tries some funny stuff with me. I ain't no Milquetoast or whatever you call it.
fordfasterr
04-16-08, 07:42 PM
Has anyone ever proven that being angry shortens your lifespan? You guys throw this around like it's gonna give you cancerous hemmorhoids and die.
I ride fairly boldly, I'd say. You have to be bold. Being passive like some of you wimps seem to be, cowering, budging, throwing any manner of justice out the window and just shrugging it off is not going to change anything. I'm making YOU look bad? I don't give a ****.
Awesome reply ! :)
zeytoun
04-16-08, 07:46 PM
Has anyone ever proven that being angry shortens your lifespan? You guys throw this around like it's gonna give you cancerous hemmorhoids [sic] and die.
I'm not sure if you are responding to anyone in particular, but since I posted an assertion that one would "live longer"... I'll respond.
While I make no claims about the health detriments of anger per se, I will say that anger, like any emotion, ceases to be useful the instant it starts directing your actions in a manner that is not in line with your highest rational priorities.
Your highest priority, while on a bicycle, is your own safety, followed closely by the safety of the other road users.
If your anger takes you away from the shortest path to your safety - which on a bike is almost always a path of vigilance, foresight, evasive action, and other similarly non-violent behaviors - and instead directs you to belch ego-driven braggadocio about repaying rude deeds in kind, instead of avoiding the rude deeds to begin with... well then you are worse off than you could be.
In short, people whose anger does not serve them, but requires their servitude instead, are likely to be less happy, less wealthy, less healthy, and less long living, because their anger is stealing resources from what should be their higher priority goal.
That being said, I've got no moral issue with ripping someone's mirror off if they deserve it, however, it's not that imaginative, it certainly won't make you safer on your bike, and it's pretty sad when someone comes around to brag about doing it.
s2cuts
04-16-08, 11:41 PM
I think the essence of what daibutsu was talking about was being actively assertive on the road, and standing up to insane drivers who have no regard for the lives of cyclists.
If a driver who buzzes me by 2 inches on purpose (I said on purpose) gets the side of his car scraped by my cleat at the next light, he's not going to think to himself "oh, I'm gonna run over the next cyclist I see". I believe he's far more likely to avoid the possibility of future such confrontations. Just the way I see it.
Allister
04-16-08, 11:58 PM
If a driver who buzzes me by 2 inches on purpose (I said on purpose) gets the side of his car scraped by my cleat at the next light, he's not going to think to himself "oh, I'm gonna run over the next cyclist I see". I believe he's far more likely to avoid the possibility of future such confrontations. Just the way I see it.
Is that backed up by experience? I seriously doubt they'll be that introspective about it.
chipcom
04-17-08, 07:25 AM
I think the essence of what daibutsu was talking about was being actively assertive on the road, and standing up to insane drivers who have no regard for the lives of cyclists.
If a driver who buzzes me by 2 inches on purpose (I said on purpose) gets the side of his car scraped by my cleat at the next light, he's not going to think to himself "oh, I'm gonna run over the next cyclist I see". I believe he's far more likely to avoid the possibility of future such confrontations. Just the way I see it.
Soooo, if I see you on your bike running a light...or say I think you pass me a little too close on the MUP, I guess you'd learn your lesson after I scraped the paint of your frame with my cleat...or put my foot up your butt...right? :lol: :rolleyes:
Denny Koll
04-17-08, 07:28 AM
Soooo, if I see you on your bike running a light...or say I think you pass me a little too close on the MUP, I guess you'd learn your lesson after I scraped the paint of your frame with my cleat...or put my foot up your butt...right? :lol: :rolleyes:
There is a big difference. Buzzing someone in a car could kill them.
PaulH
04-17-08, 07:38 AM
There is a big difference. Buzzing someone in a car could kill them.
Good point. With a bike, all you can usually manage is to injure them.
Paul
chipcom
04-17-08, 08:05 AM
Good point. With a bike, all you can usually manage is to injure them.
Paul
Unless you're really having a good a-hole day.
invisiblehand
04-17-08, 08:06 AM
I'm with Chip.
zeytoun
04-17-08, 08:42 AM
standing up to insane drivers who have no regard for the lives of cyclists.You don't stand up to the crazies by turning into one of them.
Take video, take a picture, get the cops involved, take their license and write them a letter, get revenge (if you must) in a way that is appropriate and covers your own ass and keeps your focus on riding safely.
Crazy clouds your judgment.
GreenPremier
04-17-08, 08:49 AM
You're not ONE of THEM because you're not driving a car. Period. Give it up...Justice must be done where justice is due.
chipcom
04-17-08, 08:52 AM
Justice must be done where justice is due.
If that were the case, you would not be a happy camper.
Bekologist
04-17-08, 08:56 AM
can i still do the "hang up the cellphone and DRIVE!" hand gesture or is that too confrontational for you milquetoasts? :D
chipcom
04-17-08, 09:01 AM
can i still do the "hang up the cellphone and DRIVE!" hand gesture or is that too confrontational for you milquetoasts? :D
I'll give you one better, Bek. You pull up next to the car and scream that you need to call 911 and ask to use their phone. Then you throw it - far. :D
zeytoun
04-17-08, 09:27 AM
I am a very strong and bold character. People can tell by my American flag pants. Nobody wants a round-house kick delivered to their face by old red, white, n' blue. But for the longest time - literally days - I'd start out each day attempting to be a pu**y and enjoy the ride. But within a few pedal strokes, this testosterone-supplement induced rage would seep up from the region of my American flag pants.
Some guy would cut me off, and because I was filled with berserker rage, I'd not be ready for it, and have to break hard. So it's back to battle-mode for me.
You cut me off, you don't use your turn signal, you double park - I piss on your car. I piss on the windows, and if they are down, I piss on the upholstery. It's a dog eat dog world out their, and I am an alpha dog who will eat, and not be eaten.
All you pu**ies out their are pansies. You sorry ninnies just cringe and lurk on the side of the road, waiting to be injured. Not me. I drink your milkshake! I drink it up! and then I piss on your car!
Allister
04-17-08, 09:38 AM
I am a very strong and bold character. People can tell by my American flag pants. Nobody wants a round-house kick delivered to their face by old red, white, n' blue. But for the longest time - literally days - I'd start out each day attempting to be a pu**y and enjoy the ride. But within a few pedal strokes, this testosterone-supplement induced rage would seep up from the region of my American flag pants.
Some guy would cut me off, and because I was filled with berserker rage, I'd not be ready for it, and have to break hard. So it's back to battle-mode for me.
You cut me off, you don't use your turn signal, you double park - I piss on your car. I piss on the windows, and if they are down, I piss on the upholstery. It's a dog eat dog world out their, and I am an alpha dog who will eat, and not be eaten.
All you pu**ies out their are pansies. You sorry ninnies just cringe and lurk on the side of the road, waiting to be injured. Not me. I drink your milkshake! I drink it up! and then I piss on your car!
I recommend trying different pants. Perhaps something with a Canadian theme might make you more mellow. ;)
Allister
04-17-08, 09:41 AM
I'm with Chip.
Me too, if only because he'd kick my arse if I wasn't.