Road Bike Racing - Lance holding back in 2003 TDF

A buddy of mine believes that Mr. Armstrong was holding back this year at the TDF. Wanting to make the race more competitive and dramatic (baring those unfakeable crashes). Thinking he didn't go out and stamp his authority on the climbs like years past. So making the race not such a Mike Tyson 15 second knock out fight. I must say, it was quite dramatic, though I am not too sure about this theory of my friend. Just curious to know what others think...

UMMM Lance was in his worst form since he started winning the race in 1999.

A buddy of mine believes that Mr. Armstrong was holding back this year at the TDF...

I really believe your buddy is about as wrong as a person can be.

I do not think Lance was faking, I think that he showed some weakness in the beggining and the others were no longer defeated in their minds. They were no longer racing for second place. He is going to have a hard time this next year because the others will be training for first place. I am really looking foward to the Lance, Ulrich, and Hamilton battle in 2004.

he may have been lazyer and more careless in prep and such, but on the bike, in the stages, there is no doubt he was giving his all.
Through the first half of the race, it almost seemed like Armstrong had the attitude like 'ahh who cares about this. This is boring.'

Lance knows that it doesn't take much for fortunes to change during the tour. I'm sure that if he could have got further ahead without causing himself too much damage he would have.

Lance gets paid about $20 million a year. Most of this comes from sponsors who pay him to win the Tour.

He was recently in Indianapolis. He said that this past race was the least fun he'd had...starting out with stomach flu he picked up from his kids (most folks do not know how close he was to not even starting the Tour this year) to tendonitis in his hip from a stupid shoe change and subsequent cleat mounting problems, to not getting enough to drink where he almost decided to quit during the time trial, to his still being injured from the Dauphine crash, to further getting injured in the stage one crash which was worse than stated...I heard it from the horse's mouth...he was sick and injured and they did a lot of stupid things and it all culiminated in what you saw..

And why would he put his whole team at risk doing what your friend suggests?

He went on to say that it will not happen again.

What's funny is that despite all this, they still could not beat him.

His comments culminated in this, and I am paraphrasing..."I don't know if it's because I am getting older or everyone else is getting a lot better, but that was no fun. While I cannot guarantee I can win a sixth, I will guarantee that none of the stuff you saw this year will happen next year. I guarantee it."

And he seemed really pissed off when he said it...and a pissed off Lance is not good news for everyone else.

A pissed off lance is good news for the race, as its a good sign that he will be back and better organized :D

Yeah - that's it ... that's the ticket ... he was faking it. ;)

lol i don't think you'll find a single supporter for that theory.

lance was just not in the form he needed to be to dominate the race. part of that was the fact he was not as well prepared (due to injury, etc.) and part to the fact that everybody else in the tour has begun training specifically for it as well.

whether lance will find an edge for next year or not is anybody's guess, but people like beloki, hamilton, and ullrich will be tough competition again; as will mayo and zubeldia and a few others.

We recently finished studying Lance in my Sports Psychology class. Our conclusion was that the TDF has become boring for him. He is no longer in the zone or flow because it has because too easy. His skill level is too high for the challenge that the TDF holds. So basically he is bored and has started to show less signs of excitement like for first few years that he won the race.

the others will be training for first place.

you mean to say in the past they've been training to take second or third place? that's just silly.

When they were training they did not have in their mind that the were going to beat Lance. There was a doubt, after seeing his domination of the four before that there had to be a doubt. I believe they were hoping they were going to be able to win, and trained for a win, but somewhere in their mind they did not believe it.

I also agree that the other riders are training specifically for the Tour so they were that much better.

By the way, the buddy of mine that came up with this "Holding Back Theory" also tends to see a lot of Black helicopters and may have watched one too many "X Files" episodes.

FLY02:

Let us all hope your conclusion is correct.

Perhaps Lance will grow bored and decide to fill out his palmares in a true champions fashion. Bernard Hinault is the last rider to do this. I hope he won't be the last.

Lance doesn't think he was holding back. Read the last chapter in his new book (which isn't much of a read, BTW) and get his personal insight in the '03 TdF. Basically the only good part of his new book. He needs to find another 'ghost-writer' for his next book. This one stinks.

When they were training they did not have in their mind that the were going to beat Lance. There was a doubt, after seeing his domination of the four before that there had to be a doubt. I believe they were hoping they were going to be able to win, and trained for a win, but somewhere in their mind they did not believe it.


if one doesn't believe they can win they probably wont. i still can't believe anyone in a position to lead a team in the tour would be doing anything but racing to win.

I was of the opinion that he was sandbagging, too. Then about 1/3 through the tour I got OLN and saw the video of his ITT. That was not acting, he worked hard for this years victory, and next year will be harder.

I partially agree with FLY02's assessment. I'd expect there'd be an awful lot of mental baggage from riding a TdF... mostly related to the self-inflicted amount of physical pain. Year after year it would accumulate.

Naw, the 2004 TdF either one of two things will happen (IMO anyways). Lance will lose as the competition will be better prepared and will focus more on winning the Tour. Or Lance will go out there and lay some serious wood down and win by another large margin like in years past.

I say this because he is either going to come to the tour trained and prepped like never before, knowing how close this year was he's not going to take risks or compromise himself. Or he will walk into the tour like he did this year and the competition will eat him up, chew him up and spit him out the back of the pack.

Andrew

I think it will be very unpredictable. I sense something suprising may really shake up the GC before the mountains come. (in 2004)

I agree with Ajay, Lance will either win, or lose.

Naw, the 2004 TdF either one of two things will happen (IMO anyways). Lance will lose as the competition will be better prepared and will focus more on winning the Tour. Or Lance will go out there and lay some serious wood down and win by another large margin like in years past.

I say this because he is either going to come to the tour trained and prepped like never before, knowing how close this year was he's not going to take risks or compromise himself. Or he will walk into the tour like he did this year and the competition will eat him up, chew him up and spit him out the back of the pack.

Andrew


Based on his comments about a month ago when I saw him here in Indianapolis during a stopover from the Tour of Hope, he will be trained and prepped..he will not lose due to dumb stuff...

If they beat him, it will be because someone rode a better race.

He wants the sixth. He also said that people have generally felt that if he wins again, he'll retire. Not so he said.

I agree with Ajay, Lance will either win, or lose.

Fascinating... you don't think he'll end with a perfect tie with beloki and ullrich and they'll all wander off the podium singing together? You and Ajay are going out on a limb there... ;)

Is a tie possible? I never even thought about that before.

Is a tie possible? I never even thought about that before.

well they use the hundreths (or is it thousandths? (I cant spell...)) of seconds from the TT's to do final judging of the riders overall GC time, in that case. If THAT turns out to be a tie... who knows.

from the rolla daily news: (linked from armstrong's official site)

Near the end of the race it was an arrogant competitor who, unwittingly, gave him the "ultimate inspiration," Armstrong said. He described how this competitor had been asking for more than a year for Armstrong to give him a race jersey. Finally, the competitor told one of Armstrong's team members to never mind the jersey, he'd be winning his own "yellow jersey" by defeating Armstrong for the Tour win.

During the final day of the race, after suffering a crash that cost him valuable seconds, Armstrong said he got back on the bike with a vengeance.

"I had the most incredible rush of adrenaline," he said. On top of that, Armstrong said the competitor's words came back to him just then: "I got mad then," he said.

And went on to win his fifth Tour de France.

-------------------------------------------------

Arrogant competitor? I wonder what this was about.

Is a tie possible? I never even thought about that before.

a tie is possible. in the event there is a tie, i believe the win goes to whoever has the most stage wins.

Lance will dominate 2004 TDF along with winning a spring classic. :D

Lance will dominate 2004 TDF along with winning a spring classic. :D

:roflmao:

you think lance will bother to race to win anything other than the tour? maybe he'll give a go at dauphine-libere just to get the competive juices flowing, but that's about it.

this site is infested with lance worshippers who don't know crap about racing, bleh.

simoni is a true racer... he'll win the giro, 3 or 4 classics, and at least one stage in the tour de france. if anyone racing today is the heir of merckx, hinault and anquetil, it's simoni. lance is great press in the USA, but he's nowhere near as dominating as the other 5-time tour winners (except maybe indurain, but at least indurain raced in the vuelta and/or the giro in the same year he won the tour... lance won't bother). even if lance won 10 tours de france, he still wouldn't be half as great of a cyclist as merckx or anquetil.

you think lance will bother to race to win anything other than the tour? maybe he'll give a go at dauphine-libere just to get the competive juices flowing, but that's about it.

this site is infested with lance worshippers who don't know crap about racing, bleh.

simoni is a true racer... he'll win the giro, 3 or 4 classics, and at least one stage in the tour de france. if anyone racing today is the heir of merckx, hinault and anquetil, it's simoni. lance is great press in the USA, but he's nowhere near as dominating as the other 5-time tour winners (except maybe indurain, but at least indurain raced in the vuelta and/or the giro in the same year he won the tour... lance won't bother). even if lance won 10 tours de france, he still wouldn't be half as great of a cyclist as merckx or anquetil.

:roflmao: The spring classics are for other racers who cannot win the tour!

You obviously do not realize that this is about money and appeasing sponsors who pay out this money.

It's the American way ;)
TDF generates the desried exposure for the money people. That is about it.

I agree that Lance does not dominate like many before him and his focus on only the tour really does not sit well with many of the hardcore fans.

:roflmao:
this site is infested with lance worshippers who don't know crap about racing, bleh.
.

And it's infested with people who don't even realize that there are other races besides the Giro and the TDF. Or maybe they do and just don't care.

The fall classics were happening and people here were still arguing about whether or not Jan waited.

Simoni tested positive for cocaine......twice.

The fall classics were happening and people here were still arguing about whether or not Jan waited.

Jan did not wait, he got passed and blown away ;)

And it's infested with people who don't even realize that there are other races besides the Giro and the TDF. Or maybe they do and just don't care.


Its hard to care when you get no coverage of the races :(
Its like with the NFL... there are certain teams that I would have a lot more interest in if I got to see live coverage of their games.


Jan did not wait, he got passed and blown away ;)

Yeah, thats why all those guys that were dropped (hamilton, basso...) magically caught back up with him within half a kilometre ;)


:roflmao:

you think lance will bother to race to win anything other than the tour? maybe he'll give a go at dauphine-libere just to get the competive juices flowing, but that's about it.

this site is infested with lance worshippers who don't know crap about racing, bleh.

simoni is a true racer... he'll win the giro, 3 or 4 classics, and at least one stage in the tour de france. if anyone racing today is the heir of merckx, hinault and anquetil, it's simoni. lance is great press in the USA, but he's nowhere near as dominating as the other 5-time tour winners (except maybe indurain, but at least indurain raced in the vuelta and/or the giro in the same year he won the tour... lance won't bother). even if lance won 10 tours de france, he still wouldn't be half as great of a cyclist as merckx or anquetil.

Lance can get a podium in a race like Liege Bastone Liege.
He is just as dominating as the other tour winners, if not more. He dominates his tours just as well, if not greater, than the past winners have (besides merckx). The competition is much more specialized now... there is no way any of those past guys could win the tour and classics, or the tour and giro, in todays field.

Lance can get a podium in a race like Liege Bastone Liege.
He is just as dominating as the other tour winners, if not more. He dominates his tours just as well, if not greater, than the past winners have (besides merckx). The competition is much more specialized now... there is no way any of those past guys could win the tour and classics, or the tour and giro, in todays field.

compare lance's palmares with some of the older guys.

in 1970 merckx won the tour, the giro, paris-roubaix, fleche wallone, ghent-wevelgem, paris-nice, pernod cup, and was the belgian national champion. he was similarly dominating from 69-74.

in 1979 hinault won the tour, fleche wallone, the tour of lombardy, dauphine libere, the grand prix time trial, and pernod cup no 1. in 78 and 80 he didn't win as many classics, but he did win a double.

hell, even indruain managed to win two major tours in the same year (he did it twice) as recently as 1993.

spend some time comparing armstrong to the other riders at http://www.sportsrecords.co.uk/cycling/ and you'll see that he is simply not in the same class as the rest of the greats. even earlier guys like coppi and bartali raced more than lance does. not that lance isn't inspirational, and not that he hasn't dominated the tour de france. just that he isn't nearly the all around cyclist that any of the other guys were.

compare lance's palmares with some of the older guys.


I know he doesnt have the same wins, but what I'm saying is he is in a different time period where the competition is heavier, and more riders are more specialized in certain races. There is no way that guys like Henault would have had the same results if they were racing today. Would they still have better results than Armstrong? Maybe. But I just think its hard to compare the generations by just looking at results.

THE COLD HARD TRUTH

It is very simple my cycling friends. Lance and his racing agenda are about money. Cash talks and BS walks. He races to appease his sponsors and fill his pockets with a retirement nestegg. Any of us would do the same if we could.

He is not concerned with entering the ranks of Merkcx, Indurain, etc... All he needs is to win the most prestigious and most commercially promoted race on the planet to insure his cash suppliers get the exposure they want. He will not risk racing hard in a spring classic to possibly spoil his peak for the TDF because he will jeapordize the publicity stunt of his focusing on the tour and winning. He may however use some classics as a training run for his "hollywood" race in France.

I too am growing tired of the focus on the tour while his competition is out there working hard for theor wins to include a go at the TDF. Come on Lance, get off the moneybags and race like a real man would. You don't do half what some of your closest competitors do yet you smile big and wave at the end of your only significant effort of the season. Big deal.

Its hard to care when you get no coverage of the races :(
.

But there is coverage. Cyclingnews.com has live coverage of most of the classics. Just 'cause there are no pictures doesn't mean that it's not interesting or that the race can not be discussed afterwards.

Anyway. The TDF and Giro have become so difficult that it's difficult for riders to do well in the classics and the grand tours. The average speed of the TDF has really gotten out of hand. As someone pointed out, it's all because of the huge money behind the tour now. As far as most sponsors are concerned, if the team they're pumping money into is not racing in France in July, then they've wasted a lot of money. Fans are partly responsible for this also. Sponsors are aware that to most people outside of Europe, the TDF is the only bike race there is. Just look at all the people here who posted during the TDF but promptly dissapeared when it was over.

What happens to this board when Lance and Jan retire?

What happens to this board when Lance and Jan retire?

Well, I'm not sure what will happen to this board but I'm going to sell my bikes and follow the next trend. Of course I don't expect much money out of them since they are not branded Trek. Maybe I'll even try to sell my used cycling shorts on ebay.

Yeah, what's the deal with Trek? I mean, they make some great bikes but there seems to be a near obsession with them here.

Is it because of Postal?

I own a 1992 Trek 400 that does nothing but hang from the hooks right now, but I think their Lifetime Guarantee is a great marketing tool, and the bikes are good bikes, and Lance Armstrong rides one, and they're made in America, and they have a solid dealer network, and they're doing just about everything right.

Non Cycling people ask me if LA is the greatest ever and I answer with not even close. Eddy won everything. It is a completely different time now though. I wish Simoni would concentrate on the tour this year so we could really see who is better. Which 3 classics will simoni win? I say he will not win one. To claim this site is full of LA worshipers is probably true but that does not mean we do not know bike racing. In my opinion the best rider today is the cricket in the classics, LA in the Tour, Simoni in the Giro, and Heras in Spain. You say LA should prove himself by doing the double but your man Simoni did and was nowhere near LA.

Sports, in every game, is a much different beast today. Is anyone out there enough of a bicycle racing history buff to know how important teams and team tactics were before the modern era (say, 1999 to today)? I do not recall ever hearing any of the annoucers of the past few years allude to team tactics when talking about the "greats" of old (Merckx, Anquetil, et al). Would be interesting to contrast the teams tactics of pre-Indurain with those of today.

But, we are stuck with the conumdrum of who is better, Tiger or Jack. And like LA and Merckx, we will never know. Different times.

Bettini is the best rider in the world right now.

You are right in that it's difficult to compare Eddy to Lance or Hinault to Indurain. However, in a way this degrades what Eddy did. He won an incredible amount of races but he didn't win them in a vacuum. He raced and consistently beat a lot of very very good riders. The grand tours of today may be more difficult but the Tour of Flanders is still the Tour of Flanders.

One has to think a bit about the pictures of the TdF and other races up until the "modern" era of the 80's, shall we say. That is when science started to be used to define not only the bike but the rider. Modern training methods, etc. Pre-LeMond most riders did not know or care about training and diet other than riding and eating enough. Once scientific methods started being applied then the game changed in all sports. Not that the great riders of earlier eras could not have competed today, it is just that we can't know how they would compare. Look at the speeds in the GTs and the time gaps by which LA won (until this year) and there is no question of how well he performed. Does that make him better than the other "great ones"? Who knows. But it certainly makes him no worse. And no one today rides all the GTs with an idea to winning more than one. If Simoni rides the Giro and does well I predict his TdF result will be the same as this year. Just happy I am getting over to watch again this year.

I do not recall ever hearing any of the annoucers of the past few years allude to team tactics when talking about the "greats" of old (Merckx, Anquetil, et al). Would be interesting to contrast the teams tactics of pre-Indurain with those of today.


watch A Sunday In Hell, it's a documentary about the '76 Paris-Roubaix. there's plenty of evidence of team tactics. it's also a great movie. :)

That's one of my favorite movies.

And you're right - teams were as important then as now.

teams did seem kind of worthless though when you look back at time gaps and breakaways on past tour stages. Maybe they were more important than they seemed.



Anyway. The TDF and Giro have become so difficult that it's difficult for riders to do well in the classics and the grand tours.

Do you mean the routes are more difficult, or just the nature of the race and competition have made it harder?

The average speed of the grand tours is much higher now.

The 1976 TDF averaged 34.5 km/hour In 1986 it was 36.9 This last tour was almost 41 Km/hour

I too am fustrated by riders only racing a few races a year. Race the Tour, but also race the classics, and try to win, not just use them for training. Tyler Hamilton and Vino did very well last year, I have a lot of respect for them for doing what they did, I just wish others did the same.