Anyone commute on a Folding Bike? Issues?

[macteacher]

Hi all, I have a co-worker who is looking for a bike and I mentioned a folding bike (as she'll be able to take it on the subway).

Anyone ever use one for a commute? I know they have smaller tire diameters which results in less distance travelled....but aside from that any other things one should look for when considering a folding bike? How well does it 'fold' if a rack is attached?

Your responses are appreciated.

Thanks

[Ya Tu Sabes]

I commute on a Dahon Jack, which has full-sized 26" wheels. I need it so I can go on the train, but I am 6'5", so all of the little-wheel bikes aren't made for someone as big as I am. I love the Dahon - it really rides just like a regular bike, which is what I wanted. It doesn't fold as small as a little-wheel folder, but it gets to be the size of a large suitcase, so it should be fine for the subway. Also, because it's bigger, it's more suited to longer rides, which is nice for me because I sometimes have some significant riding to do in the course of my work day (~10-15 miles). And it has a rack and folds fine with it. What more can I tell you?

[folder fanatic]

Hi all, I have a co-worker who is looking for a bike and I mentioned a folding bike (as she'll be able to take it on the subway).

Anyone ever use one for a commute? I know they have smaller tire diameters which results in less distance travelled....but aside from that any other things one should look for when considering a folding bike? How well does it 'fold' if a rack is attached?

Your responses are appreciated.

Thanks

Hello Macteacher & Welcome!

I have 3 folding bikes at present-1 20 inch wheel & 2 16 inch wheel in diameter. 2 of them have a rear rack, one is not (the Brompton is stripped down for lightness and more quickness of handling, but I have the option of attaching a QR front luggage system unique to Bromptons). I use folding bikes exclusively now since I donated my last nonfolding bike to charity. I use each of them in different, yet overlapping ways including commuting. Nothing beats these bikes for ease of transport and storage both in the home and at work. For more information on commuting, see my Geocities Web site and my Flckr Web site listed below:

Commuting For Business

http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Security5.html (http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Security5.html)

Photo Gallery On Commuting & Touring With Folders

http://www.flickr.com/photos/world-of-folding-bicycles/sets/72157594325178229/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/world-of-folding-bicycles/sets/72157594325178229/)

[kf5nd]

My Dahon Vitesse / Speed 7 folds fine with a rack, but it was a mistake to take it on a 25 mile trip. It was not comfy after the first 10 miles.

[MichaelW]

The smaller wheel are accompanied by higher cog ratios so the net result is the same, you go the same distance for each pedal rotation. That is why we measure gears in "gear inches (http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_g.html#gearinch)"

Smaller wheels can be harsher on rough terrain but it doesnt seem to be a problem in practice.

Many folding bikes come complete with racks that are properly integrated.
There are folding bikes designed for high performance riding, for touring, for air-travel, for ultra-small fold, rapid folding and a lot for regular commuting using subway/mixed mode.
Most come with regular derailleur style gears but some used enclosed hub gears which are easier to use and cleaner.
Check any size restriction on the subway and note that the folding bike needs to be light enough to carry.
Dahon folders are probably your best bet, the Curve is a nice light model with a luggage system available. The more expensive Bromptons are considered by many the king of subway folders, small, easy to fold and very durable.

[energyandair]

I started commuting on a folding bike when I started a new job about 3 weeks ago and I have some trouble understanding why they are not in general use.

In my case it is an 8km cross town commute. I don't need the folding aspect of the bike for this purpose but I find that its fast acceleration, agility and its short total length are significant benefits compared to standard bikes.

The agility is handy when I need to avoid broken glass, duck over to press a traffic light signal, or cross multiple lanes of stopped cars to move from a bike lane to a left turn lane on a busy multilane road. The fast acceleration is handy to avoid traffic and the short length is handy if you need to wheel it in on a busy footpath or stop at a traffic island part way across a road.

In my case I am riding a Birdy so I am giving up nothing in terms of comfort or speed when compared to most conventional commuter bikes. It is in fact generally better in these respects.

With regard to folding with a rack, you generally need to take off paniers and in most cases, a rack increases the folded size somewhat.

I see that you are assuming that the folding bike goes a shorter distance with each rotation of the cranks. This is not necessarily so. It depends on the chainwheel size and the rear gearing. You can get small wheel bikes with pretty much any gearing that you want. That of course doesn't mean that the one that is on at a good sale price necessarily matches your needs or desires.

David

[rhm]

I commute on a Downtube Mini; I've ridden it about 2700 miles since May (plus maybe 50 miles of non-commuting riding), and I take it on the train twice each day. I recommend it highly.

On a bike with small wheels, you have to be careful how you use a rack; I had a Dahon rack on mine for a while, but it proved useless because (1) anything I put on it cause heel strike issues and (2) it increased the fold size just enough to be a pain in the neck. I also have a quick-release seatpost mounted rack with a rack trunk on it, but I use that only rarely. So for luggage I carry a messenger bag over my shoulder; it sits behind my lower back when I'm on the bike. It's not my first choice, but it works.

As many people have mentioned on this forum, wheel size is only one of many factors in how a bike handles. The right bike with small wheels will be more comfortable, even on long trips, than the wrong bike with large wheels. If your friend is small anyway, she may find a folding bike fits her better than a conventional one anyway.

I would suggest you steer her away from anything with a derailleur.

[vik]

Hi all, I have a co-worker who is looking for a bike and I mentioned a folding bike (as she'll be able to take it on the subway).

Anyone ever use one for a commute? I know they have smaller tire diameters which results in less distance travelled....but aside from that any other things one should look for when considering a folding bike? How well does it 'fold' if a rack is attached?

Your responses are appreciated.

Thanks

http://bp2.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/SAJY3FGqf0I/AAAAAAAAEz8/lvX5YARn3I4/s400/Tikit+Coffee.JPG

I've done multi-modal commutes with my Bike Friday Tikit (http://viktikit.blogspot.com/). Works great. I find the 8 speed is all I need even for some decent hills. I can keep up with other commuters no troubles and the Tikit folds in few seconds even with a rear rack installed. Although I own quite a few cool bikes I'll grab my Tikit for 4 out of 5 bike trips...:D

Handmade in the US if that matters to you.

[invisiblehand]

Hi all, I have a co-worker who is looking for a bike and I mentioned a folding bike (as she'll be able to take it on the subway).

Anyone ever use one for a commute? I know they have smaller tire diameters which results in less distance travelled....but aside from that any other things one should look for when considering a folding bike? How well does it 'fold' if a rack is attached?

Your responses are appreciated.

Thanks

With regards to the rack, it really depends on the make and model. But many models are able to fold with with a rack or other mounted bag. Some do so better than others.

As mentioned already, small wheels typically come with higher gearing. Moreover, small wheels are stronger so arguably better for commuting.

You would look at the size of the fold, speed of the fold, how it carries stuff, and the gearing. For commuting I typically go with low and wide gearing since most routes around here are quite hilly. Of course this is in addition to price and fit.

You can find some old threads here that discuss multimodel commuting including those where people need help choosing a folder.

[invisiblehand]

I should also write that I use a Downtube Mini and Bike Friday NWT to commute on occasion.

[ShinyBiker]

Most Dahons seem to be aimed at the urban market and have included racks for utility purposes. With the low center of gravity, I think these types of bikes are better to bungee strap something back there or put a large milk crate there (vs. conventional bikes). For the Dahons, the fold is basically the same with or without the rack. Again, you will not get a folded package as compact as a Brompton, but you can store it in a closet or the trunk of a car.

[Sixty Fiver]

I've been living on my folders since I have trouble swinging a leg over my regular bikes and getting off can be a little tricky too.

I have two Phillip's Twenty folders with one being rigged for commuting and utilitarian riding ("Grace") while the other ("Forrest") is a little sportier as it has been converted to a fixed gear which should also serve me well on the commute.

They don't give up anything to their taller sisters in the ride or performance department and I installed folding racks on Grace which are proving themselves to be very practical.

I sometimes take my bikes on our LRT system and their compact size is nice... I do not have to fold them but will turn the bars sideways so they don't stick out.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/gracecommute2.jpg
Grace

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/forrestfixed6.jpg
Forrest

[nekohime]

I commute on a Kent Ultralite folder--very cheap, and you get what you pay for, basically. It's not as awesome as other folders but it works for me.

I travel around 40mi a day through bike and public transportation in Los Angeles. It goes bike-bus-subway-bus-bike, with the bike portions totaling around 5-12mi, depending on the traffic. I must say, the folding bike makes my life sooooo much easier because I don't have to wait for the next bus if the bike racks are full, and I don't have to be restricted to carrying my bike only on the off-peak times on the subway. Another great thing about it is that if I get stuck in traffic, I just unfold and breeze through the lines of cars.

I have a rear rack, and it doesn't really increase the size of the fold. It actually makes the folded package more stable because you can use the rack as a stand to keep it balanced. I don't put panniers on it because of heel-strike issues, but I strap a milk crate or weave basket on it to put stuff in, and it works great. I bungee my backpack to it too. I also sometimes strap a cat litterbox, then put the panniers over that, if I really need to carry a lot of groceries.

Issues...well, my bike is cheap, so it ain't great. At all. I wouldn't ride more than 10-15mi on it, but if I upgraded parts, like the saddle and possibly the chainring, I think I can ride on it further. I love the acceleration, handling and agility (sharp turns? Need fast start to traffic? No problem!).

Word of caution though...once you have one, you'll be addicted! :D Not so good if you drool over and want to buy every shiny new model that's out... :p

[bookishboy]

-If she'll be riding the bike in inclement weather, including days when the rain has stopped but the roads are still wet, recommend that she chooses (or equips) a bike with sufficient fenders. It's not enough for the bike to merely have fenders, they need to cover down to at least the 9 o'clock position on both wheels.

-If she's a shorter person; say, under 5'5", recommend that she investigate folders with 16" wheels instead of 20" wheels. This is particularly important if she'll need to do a lot of porting through doors, up stairs, etc. Knowing that she owns a "folding bicycle" is not the same as getting the benefits of having one. If she test rides one, recommend that she get a feel not only for how the bike rides, but practice folding it and carrying it up a set of public transit stairs, or porting it, folded, half a block. Ask her to go through the act of getting the folded bike through a building door that she has to open. 16"-wheeled folders include the Dahon Curve, the Downtube Mini, all Brompton models and the Bike Friday Tikit. Brompton's and Tikits range higher in expense ($700-$2000 depending on model/options), but also maintain their resale value better.

[alhedges]

I think it's important to know what kind of commuting she is going to be doing. If she will be folding the bike twice a day and putting it on a crowded bus or subway, I think she should really look into a bike with 16" wheels. If folding quickly and compactly is not critical, then look into a bike with 20" wheels.

[silverodt]

I commute all over New York City on a Bike Friday 9 speed Crusoe. Smaller wheels aren't a problem, and I fold it only when needed (like when it's late at night and I'm too drunk to get home safely and a friend offers me a ride), which is not often. I have taken it on the subway several times, due to mechanical breakdown, and never had a problem. The farthest ever traveled for work is about 50 miles round trip, and it wasn't a problem.

[Caaah]

I'm relatively new to commuting on a folder, but after three weeks, I have noticed a few things. As someone else mentioned, it is all about the gear length, not the wheel size. Actually, as far as the bumpyness of the ride, the wider tires (big apples) on my 16in wheels take the bumps much better than the tires on my 26in folder. I have a 16in Dahon Curve and a 26in Dahon Espresso, and I definitely prefer the 16in for this reason. Honestly, I feel safer on it anyway because its smaller size is much easier to control--I like to feel the bike move with my body very responsively. However, I'm 5' 8" so I wouldn't be surprised if it feels too small for someone 6'+.
I'm fine with the rack on the Curve. I just don't put anything wider than the rack on it to avoid heel strike. Since that rack was made for it, it folds fine. Actually, I find myself grabbing a hold of the rack when I carry the folded bike. Where it sticks out on that bike makes a good handle.

[Dahon.Steve]

Hi all, I have a co-worker who is looking for a bike and I mentioned a folding bike (as she'll be able to take it on the subway).

Anyone ever use one for a commute? I know they have smaller tire diameters which results in less distance travelled....but aside from that any other things one should look for when considering a folding bike? How well does it 'fold' if a rack is attached?

Your responses are appreciated.

Thanks

If there are no hills in this commute and her total miles after leaving the subway is less than 3 miles, she should look at the Strida. It's a single speed and it rolls across the train platform unlike the other folders mentioned. A Brompton or Dahon have to be carried through a train station, not fun at all. In addition, with the Strida, the folded package won't interfere with her getting a seat. A huge plus.

[vik]

Actually I do think there is one potential downside to commuting with a folding bike - people want to talk to you and ask you tons of questions. That might end up making you late! I was actually thinking of printing some business cards with answers to common questions and a link to my Tikit Blog. I figured it would save me time when I'm in a rush and still help the person get informed about folders.

[Sixty Fiver]

I too ride on fatter tires as running high pressure skinnies warrants a suspension fork up front... I installed some Kenda Contact 20 by 1.95 tyres on my P20 roadie today and they seem to have it all...low rolling resistance, great handling, and a fairly plush ride at 65 psi.

I met a lady on the ride home who had a new Dahon Speed 7 and I just discovered that my modified Twenty weighs less than a pound more than her bike and will get even lighter... :).

I have already been stopped quite a few times by people who were really interested in my old and odd folder and think that I'll be seeing more and more of them here.

Dahon's, Bike Friday's, and Bromptons are becoming more common and my LBS just started stocking the Strida which is a very cool looking bike that I would love to test pilot.

The Twenty is not a packable bike but designed for folks who live in smaller flats and need to manage space and the folding feature gets used more when I lock it up.

[Sixty Fiver]

On gearing...

My fixed Twenty runs a 52 tooth chainring and a 14 tooth cog which gives it a spinnable 70 gear inches... this same gearing combination on a road bike with 700c wheels will give you 100 gear inches which is only good for descents and on days when you have a little tailwind.

This is why folders with multi speed or single speed drives use such large chain rings (to compensate for wheel size/travel) or utilize an internal gear hub as one can then use a slightly smaller chain ring.

I would be hard pressed to run a 16 inch bike as a single speed or fixed gear due to the chain ring and cog requirements.

[energyandair]

On gearing...

My fixed Twenty runs a 52 tooth chainring and a 14 tooth cog which gives it a spinnable 70 gear inches... this same gearing combination on a road bike with 700c wheels will give you 100 gear inches which is only good for descents and on days when you have a little tailwind.

This is why folders with multi speed or single speed drives use such large chain rings (to compensate for wheel size/travel) or utilize an internal gear hub as one can then use a slightly smaller chain ring.

I would be hard pressed to run a 16 inch bike as a single speed or fixed gear due to the chain ring and cog requirements. A 52 teeth chainring with 11 tooth cog on a 16" wheel would be about the same gear inches as you have now as would a 56 tooth chainring and a 12 tooth cog. Is there any reason that these would not work?
David

[nekohime]

Actually I do think there is one potential downside to commuting with a folding bike - people want to talk to you and ask you tons of questions. That might end up making you late! I was actually thinking of printing some business cards with answers to common questions and a link to my Tikit Blog. I figured it would save me time when I'm in a rush and still help the person get informed about folders.

Haha, that happens to me a lot too. Lately I've just been passing them some fliers with the info for my folding bike ride, and if they're curious enough, they'll show up on Saturday.

[Sixty Fiver]

A 52 teeth chainring with 11 tooth cog on a 16" wheel would be about the same gear inches as you have now as would a 56 tooth chainring and a 12 tooth cog. Is there any reason that these would not work?
David

There is a problem with 11 tooth track cogs in that they don't exist and a 12 tooth cog has issues as they are too small to accommodate a lock ring that won't interfere with the chain...you would have to go with a Phil Wood cog and lock ring.

Cogs with less than 13 teeth also lose a lot of efficiency and wear very quickly due to the high torque load on very few teeth.

A 16 inch bike with a fixed drive would be pretty radical and the fixed drive really simplifies and lightens up a bike.

[LittlePixel]

A 52 teeth chainring with 11 tooth cog on a 16" wheel would be about the same gear inches as you have

Agreed - this is the setup on my Brompton and it mirrors the inches on my R20 and 700c Peugeot;
11 tooth track sprockets do exist - mine is a Phil Wood and the lock ring works as long as the flange is on the outer edge.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2173/2174770504_728069d111.jpg?v=0

[Sixty Fiver]

Well... someone (Phil Wood) does make 11 tooth track cogs.

Cool.

[CrimsonEclipse]

I commute daily and fold once or twice a day on a Dahon Speed P8

Issues:
High maintenance. I'm ALWAYS adjusting the hinge mechanisms.
Creaking (see above)
Heel strike with panniers (solved with the correct rack, I'm using an Axiom Journey)
Flexy. I got used to it, but it's still noticeable.

Not sure what my next choice would be. Downtube or possible a Brompton/Merc
(If I could ever find a test ride)

CE

[BikeLite]

And the Brompton and Tikit even have a great warranty (? 5 years) as opposed to the 1 year warranty of the Downtube Mini. Something to consider.

16"-wheeled folders include the Dahon Curve, the Downtube Mini, all Brompton models and the Bike Friday Tikit. Brompton's and Tikits range higher in expense ($700-$2000 depending on model/options), but also maintain their resale value better.

[jeebusaurousrex]

NYC commuter here. Subway in the mornings and a 10mile ride back on a Brompton M6. If I didn't sweat so much I'd ride it in the mornings too. I've done the round trip loop on weekends and had no problems being comfortable.

Usually it's faster or the same as taking the subway and I get the daily cardio workout taken care of.

Biggest issue for me is the weight and bulk. Under any normal conditions the Brompton is a breeze to take around, but rushing in and out of crowded cars, through crowded stations and platforms, and up and down crowded stairs is a pain in the ass. I'm in good shape, but the 25lbs bike + helmet + work bag is unwieldy when surrounded by thousands of fellow mass transit riders.

And yes, people always seem to feel bold about asking questions about folding bikes. Sometimes nice (attractive inquirers) and sometimes unpleasant (potential bike thieves asking it's worth - correct answer is,"I don't know, it was a present."), but always expected.

[sprockets]

I have started commuting occasionally on my Bike Friday Pocket Llama. It doesn't fold as nicely as my Avernir rebranded Dahon) but it handles MUCH better. I don't need to fold my bike in the morning as it's allowed on the train at that time, however if I take a bus or take the Train into Union Station in the evening then it'd have to be folded as bicycles are allowed in Union Station during peak hours.

I enjoy not having to battle through the daily demolition derby that is Toronto traffic, even if it's only once or twice a week. Instead I sit quietly on a train and play on my laptop.

[trueno92]

hey sprockets i just replied to ur thread in 'living car free' and mentioned folders and mixing that up with public transit. didn't know u were already on board!

[The Chemist]

I commute every day on a Dahon Boardwalk - 15 km total riding daily, plus a 20 minute subway ride in each direction. I don't have any serious issues other than the bike being a bit awkward to carry when folded, but I don't leave it folded more than I have to for that very reason. It's also a bit of a pain to bring on a very crowded subway train, but my usual subway line is not that crowded when I usually commute and I've learned to avoid the busier times, by leaving home and work earlier.

[Mr. Smith]

Hi all, I have a co-worker who is looking for a bike and I mentioned a folding bike (as she'll be able to take it on the subway).

Anyone ever use one for a commute? I know they have smaller tire diameters which results in less distance travelled....but aside from that any other things one should look for when considering a folding bike? How well does it 'fold' if a rack is attached?

Your responses are appreciated.

Thanks

I commute on a tikit. Word of advice... Get a hub. Derailers are too much hassle in my experience on a folder, even good ones. I'm not sure if it's temperature differential from inside to outside all the time, the folding, or what, but I had to adjust constantly before getting a hub wheel built. Otherwise, it works well. Use front racks if possible or a back pack, though all the bikes below offer a rear rack and were designed to be folded with them attached. From what I've seen these are worth looking into and in my opinion the best of what's around for commuting folders:

Bike Friday tikit
Strida 5.0
Reise and Muller Birdy (good luck getting one, especially the cool new ones on the Reise and Muller website in North America)
Brompton (and knockoffs)

[Sixty Fiver]

Commuters need fenders... a comfy saddle is essential, and paniers are a must have.

My hub has 2 cogs and it doesn't coast which also reduces the chance of mechanical issues ... :D

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/forrestnitto1side2.jpg

[The Chemist]

I commute on a tikit. Word of advice... Get a hub. Derailers are too much hassle in my experience on a folder, even good ones.

Haven't had any issues with the derailleur on my Boardwalk. :p

[JugglerDave]

My commute is multimodal, 1 mile to train station, 25 minute train (Amtrak), 3.25 mile to work (downhill in the AM, uphill in the PM -- 315 ft vertical in about 1/2 mile, ranging to 15% grade). I've done this about 150 times over the last year and a half or so.

I use a Downtube IXNS, with the only modifications being an upgrade to a sealed cartridge bottom bracket and some duct-tape fender extensions. I chose that bike based on its price/value (it was originally an experiment for me to multi-mode commute) and low gearing for that tough afternoon uphill.

I've been loving the commute and the bike (generally). I've computed that I save $9 per round trip commute versus the 53 mile drive, counting "everything".

The mechanical problems I've had with the bike are few, but here they are:
- the quick release skewer on the handlebar has stripped twice, after roughly 150 folds each time. I may overtighten it, but I think this is now a regular maintenance item for me, but only $5 to fix.
- the derailleur is very poor, with the chain hopping off the front chainwheel too easily. I generally use gears 3 & 2 on the tough hill, and 5/6/7 for most of the rest of the commute. 8 & 9 promote chain falling off on road bumps too much so I avoid them.
- the front brake metal (where the "noodle" is held in place) bends and twists too easily as a result of folding pulling on the brake cable/noodle. Fixed easily with pliers, but I'm concerned that one of these times it will break and I'll have to replace the assembly.
- original difficulty with raising/lowering the seat and handlebar due to tolerances and sometimes grit in the columns. Has gotten MUCH better with a little filing and just wear over time.

[Mr. Smith]

Haven't had any issues with the derailleur on my Boardwalk. :p

I think it has to do a lot with my regional climate and the never ending dust storms, but nonetheless the hub is preferred for me personally.

[Urbanis]

JugglerDave, you probably save more money than just the $9 by biking when you factor in the saved medical costs associated with improved mental and physical health.

[JugglerDave]

JugglerDave, you probably save more money than just the $9 by biking when you factor in the saved medical costs associated with improved mental and physical health.

Well, I can't put an actual price on the mental health bit, but with physical health I am not doing any additional exercise by bike commuting -- when I used to drive my commute I would still do a 45-60 minute bike ride (or elliptical if it's raining) after I got home. So I'm actually saving time more than anything.

Oh, And $9 counting "everything (except mental health)".

[jwlunt]

I commute daily on my Swift.

Upsides: great work out; get to work on a buzz; save a heap of cash on fuel / train tickets; get to work as fast or faster than any other commute; loving the freedom of coming & going as you please; taking the long route home after a bad day in the office; getting fit; instant 2-wheeled friends at the traffic lights...

Downsides: getting to work sweaty; taking work clothes to work in your back pack; stupid drivers in stupid cars; cycling into strong winds (particularly a problem in Chicago!); rain

Over all, I can't ever imagine voluntarily going back to a normal train commute. I'm already dreading the winter where I don't think cycling will be possible because of the snow & ice we get here.

J.